Old Scratch

[Caligula]

How many Satanists do we have on here? Briefly, what does it mean to you? What's the attitude of the non-Satanists to the creed? How did you first encounter authentic Satanism? (Assuming, of course, that you have.) What do people make of Anton LaVey?

[OliX]

I just don't care.... but on satanism of today I just look like a fashion... And I LMAO when I hear that someone don't believe in god but believe in satan, how is it possible?!?!

[Ouroboros]

I once read that satanism started as being merely the rejection of God, even though it certainly didn't worship the devil.

... I think.

[Caligula]

I just don't care.... but on satanism of today I just look like a fashion... And I LMAO when I hear that someone don't believe in god but believe in satan, how is it possible?!?!

Beats me why people respond to threads just to say they're not interested. Hang around and you never know, you might even learn something, because you clearly know less than Jack shit about Satanism.

Ouroboros, for example, is quite correct in stating that Satanism is a repudiation of faith, not the simple inversion of Judeo-Christian mythology. In other words, to be a Satanist you need to believe in the existence of Christianity, not God, and I think there's reasonable evidence that Christianity exists.

(Oh, and for your further information Mister Olix, while there have been numerous ridiculous fashions over the years, I don't think there's much danger that you will ever be or indeed 'look like' a fashion.)

[OliX]

do you feel insulted?

[TheDeathKnight]

It's a generally cool philosophy.

I resonate better to Taoism though.

But the fact that satanism pisses off Christians makes me happy.

I think people with a strong anti-christian feeling, or had a bad experience
with christianity, tend to lean towards satanism, or athieism, as a rejection
of faith, rather than looking at all the other possibilities.

I generally think that any religion or doctrine is kind of a narrow-minded
way to look at life. There are many possibilities of how to live your life,
and how to interact with the world. There in no one right way to do things.

[Caligula]

Satanism's anti-religious rather than specifically anti-Christian. It opposes slave belief systems - of which Christianity is the most obvious in our culture - but not all such creeds are specifically religious. Consumer culture, for example, could be described as a version of the same conformist creed.



Oh, and for the benefit of the peanut gallery...

do you feel insulted?

It's pretty difficult to tell, as it's always tricky to work out what on earth you're talking about.

But I guess it's fair to say that I find stupidity irritating, on which basis I suppose you could qualify as that. Congratulations then Mr Potatohead, you've achieved the lofty heights of being the human equivalent of a fart in an elavator!

[CPRB]

oh my..hmmm egos to thier corners and come out punching? c'mon guys...mind you on that round uhhh anyhow I don't know into detail much about Levay. I have told I am Satanist, Satan himself and all I need is Mrs. Satan...I guess I just belive in self pro choice and the need for independent indviduality that is not dogged by apearance but by social graces and self respect...we talked about this somewhere else....I dunno there should be a one month ban on the following subjects

Fashion
Music
Satanism
Mental Illness
oh...yeah and COFFEEEEEE!

as a "pledge" to the Mr Patatoehead club I feel that with this I will surely make the grade.

now back to a serious moment...to be honest I know very little about the whole thing and am interested and have obtained a few books...so far nothing terribley interesting and it seems alot of my ideas can draw paralel views....the jury is still out.

[Morning Glory]

"Athiesm.. Satanism.. Autonomy... It's all the fuckin same. These stupid straight-edge christxcore motherfuckers, they don't know shit. They're just a bunch of fuckin sheep, looking for easy answers. and they're too closed minded to look anywhere outside of the church, or whever else the ignorant masses gather to be brainwashed."
-Osama Stz Ladin

[Morning Glory]

eh. Although satanism has a good ideal, you still have to follow the belief that there is a satan and a god, even if you reject him... and aside from caging yourself into the confines of yet another prescribed idealogy, shit dude, that's casting off one organised religion for another, you might as well be a christian. and no matter how much you may resent god and wish to not affiliate with his followers...you'll never be free from the slavery of thier oppression as long as you accept that he IS your god. just by believing that there is a god in heaven it automatically places you as an inferior mortal that's beneath him. I say fuck em all, and reject all of thier bullshit. Be your own God.

[(d)ArkAnjel]

I have absolutely no idea of what it 'is all about,' but i would like to learn more about it.....so i'll stick around. All i know so far is that according to the 9 statements, almost everyone is considered a satanist. According to them, it's about
Indulging;not having 'spiritual pipe dreams';"wisdom";being nice to those who are nice to you;revenge;disregard for 'psychic vampires';man is less than or equal to 4 legged animals; all of the sins (Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed, and Sloth)<and actions stemming from sin>;and that "Satan," as Anton LaVey wrote in the Satanic Bible, "is the best friend the Christian Church has ever had," even though practically every "Satanist" will say their Satan has nothing to do with the Christian's idea of who Satan is.
The thing I don't get though, if your Satan has nothing to do with mine, then how could he possibly be the Christian Church's best friend?

[(d)ArkAnjel]

Why do you, MorningGlory, think that 'close-mindedness,' ignorant, bigots, and blind sheep labels bother Christians? I'm not proud of being the above stated, but I'm not ashamed of it either...I wonder why it is that when people try to persecute the church, they all say the same thing, or use the same labels and what not.

I don't know about you ( I really don't) but here's how I see it. But if Satanism is about the self, then why would it consider humans lower than animals for the very attitudes and actions it promotes?

oh, and correction.....I didn't mean YOUR Satan, I meant their satan :p

[Morning Glory]

what are you talking about? you didn't address any of my points, not that this is a theological debate. I was merely critiquing the church of satan.
It was not my intention to come here and say hahaha. you christians are so silly. hahaha. ( i'm not a muslim) just kidding. If that offends you as a muslim, feel free to jihad any time.
back to the point, It's not really my obligation to explain the words of someone else... but perhaps you might want to look at the wider message of the qoute, not just, "hey, he said we were stupid!"
I don't know what you mean by your satan, my satan.. etc. when I use words like 'your god', and 'thier' whatever, I mean anyone elses but mine. I don't have a satan, because I don't believe there is one.

[Morning Glory]

although, if you want to get oh so technical, satan really has nothing to do with the biblical devil or lucifer. actually, lucifer isn't the name of the devil at all. the "actual" name of the devil is morning star. but that's not really specific because the bible says that all of the angels were called the morning star. the people of the ancient middle-east refered to the planet Pluto as the morning star, and when the Catholic church translated the bible hundreds of years later into greek, for some reason they decided that the devil would be named lucifer, which comes from the greek word for the planet Pluto. so today we all now call him that, although it was never originally written so.
as for the word satan, it comes from the hebrew word for "adversary", which is surely a characteristic of the devil, but not his litteral name.

[Tequila Zaire]

Their was a great thread on this months back with some solid answers...I'd dig it up...worth the read. Szandora did some great posts on it..

[hewhoisagod]

I'd rather be Jewish.......... Satan is part of God's court and there's no hell, you don't go to heaven either you just die. And you can do all the shit you want, just atone for it on Yom Kippur and you're forgiven..........

[(d)ArkAnjel]

Forgive me. I come from a small Mennonite/Lutheran community of 5,000...so I am rather narrow minded....just before I came here, I remembered that it wouldn't be very christian of me to be narrow minded, and it might just be better if i were more sensitive to the label. I do, in fact, believe that many of the points of the Christian religion may have been twisted, left out, or barrowed, or made up.

I would, however, like to continue learning from others. For once, I was really narrow minded, but i wish to be open minded.

Please, I beseech ye, maketh me learned in thy knowledge.

[Goat on Fire]

I've read a couple of replies and decided to stop. Here's my brainstorm of some of the things which I consider to be "Satanic":

modern days heathenism. self-criticism. self-awareness. self-development. The embodyment of the pagan deities (of which, most were distorted and banned by, so called RHP religions, and then cheaply replaced by 'saints'), from an atheistic point of view - which is why it is called the Unreligion. Functionallity. Individualism. Reward and punishment according to actions. Love and hate, as much, and to those who deserve it. Sometimes, intentional, fully aware temporary ingorance and dogma, in order of achieving greater results. A Romantic way of looking at life. Intolerance of stupidity. The disguist towards counter-productive pride, vandalism and other misinterpreted un-qualities etc...

That's a few things I consider as correct. Dr. LaVey had the most approachable presentation of the subject whuch is the reason his name is always mentioned while discussing the topic.

In my oppinion, (un)religions are tools. If you can't use them - throw them away; but if you do use them, make sure that you're the one holding on to the handle, or suffer the consequences. Generally, if asked, I declare myself as an atheist (which is NOT a lie), unless I get the imression that I'm dealing with a person who has the correct approach, or if it's for the sake of the debate.

P.S. I've never understood how can something that's older than xtianity be it's inversion, but oh well, everyone has their point of view.

*a tip to those who should recognise themselves as fit for it: Don't discuss any topic without posessing the proper information - no matter which side you take. It would be like trying to shoot at a target with an empty gun. This is in no way an insult, nor refering to any particular post from this thread.

[Yasha D. Speed]

now, if you could tell me what odin and tyr have in common with the weakling who was kicked out of heaven by the archangels


i'm a heathen, but i generally get along better with christians than with satanists... might be because the gods don't like satan *shrugs*

[Morning Glory]

umm.. i'd say just that christianity was too lazy to change the calender adopted by the even lazier romans ( pre-constantine, that is) so they call the third and second days of the week wednesday, and tuesday.

[Yasha D. Speed]

yeah, but it's saturday, not satan's day

pagan gods != the devil

[Morning Glory]

only if you're jewish.

[Yasha D. Speed]

!= means they aren't

[Mr Karl]

the way I see it christ was someone who said 'be nice to people and have a good diet' . christianity has sold this ideal using most of the occult mysteries there are.

Oh and Anton Lavey used to be a carnival barker

Niether is right niether is wrong but they use the same principle to build thier powerbase

Power to the people

[OliX]

Caligula, you are making me laught

[(d)ArkAnjel]

I thought the whole idea of discussion was to learn. The purpose of debate is to prove and disprove a point. As someone already pointed out earlier....this is for discussion. I did not try to prove my point (i had none to begin with), I was stating my opinion and trying to provoke someone to tell me a different view. So don't go telling someone not to discuss anything if they don't know anything (or the proper info) about it. The reason why I don't know anything about it is because it was all hush-hush where I came from.

[Goat on Fire]

now, if you could tell me what odin and tyr have in common with the weakling who was kicked out of heaven by the archangels


i'm a heathen, but i generally get along better with christians than with satanists... might be because the gods don't like satan *shrugs*

Why are you wasting your time on ranting by finding alternative meanings in everything. If you're not interested in this discussion, no ones forcing you to participate.

[Goat on Fire]

I thought the whole idea of discussion was to learn. The purpose of debate is to prove and disprove a point. As someone already pointed out earlier....this is for discussion. I did not try to prove my point (i had none to begin with), I was stating my opinion and trying to provoke someone to tell me a different view. So don't go telling someone not to discuss anything if they don't know anything (or the proper info) about it. The reason why I don't know anything about it is because it was all hush-hush where I came from.

I wasn't refering to you.

[Goat on Fire]

Here's a clarification if you didn't get it by yourself (must i point out every single detail?)

Most of the nations had a heathen deity for a quality they admired.

Set - the egyptian god of pride, revenge, the desert wind and weapons... his 'cult' was extinguished long before the birth of christ. When the Jews came to Egypt, they called him Sheiitan. Later adapted into Islam an Christianity (as satan).

Pan - the greek god of the woods, animals, nature, indulgence and lust. The jester of the Olymp. Presented as a man with goat legs and goat horns and ears (sometimes an entire goat head). Sounds familiar? Also let's not forget the phrase 'scape-goat'.

Lucifer - the roman god of light, air, and wisdom (i think intelligence as well).

Belial - the one with no master.

Loki - the norse ruler of the underground hell. All who didn't die proudly in war went there. those who did, went to valhalla.

Veles/Velos - the slavic eqivalent of pan. the god of nature. / the slavic god of the underground world and hell. (it is yet to be determined which side of the "/" is correct.)

there's loads of examples, so if you need any more, feel free to look for them yourself.

Do any of these names ring a bell?

What kind of gods have been chosen to identify with the devil (who, so symptomatically, has many names...)? Both of positive and negative characters, put all into a blender and turned into a twisted grotesque frankenstein idol... the ruler of the underground hell, lust, wisdom, freedom, nature, revenge, pride, etc... What other names has 'the devil' been called (according to the nation which has been christianised)?

Satanism just uses that idol and sets it straight.

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as for the saints, heres one example. The slavic god of thunder, Perun, has been replace with Saint Ilia (oddly enoght a moslem name for a christain saint. whatever can they mean by that???). It is said that if you swim on his day, you will surely drown... what a degradation, not to have the dignity to adress the deity itself, but use a mask instead.

Every saint has it's day, and it's the day when the 'barbaric pagan tribes' were christianised and their most celibrated deity replaced with a saint.

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Please, lets get serious here, or end this discussion.

[Goat on Fire]

my PREVIOUS post is refered to Yasha D. Speed. I forgot to quote him.

----------------------
Next.

I have a feeling that the following quote has been misunderstood. That's why I'll try to clerify it now:

"...*a tip to those who should recognise themselves as fit for it: Don't discuss any topic without posessing the proper information - no matter which side you take. It would be like trying to shoot at a target with an empty gun. This is in no way an insult, nor refering to any particular post from this thread."

I was trying to prevent any future unwitted comments (and NOT prevent asking around), in order of increasing the efficency of the discussion. It could have also been a reply to OliX's post - but it wasn't. Based on prejudice, from reading some of his posts in other threads, he seems like a fairly intelligent person. The problem is that applying logics and common sence is not enough for this discussion. You also have to KNOW info of BOTH sides of the conflict. And knowing NOTHING has always been better than beeing, in his case, misinformed (just like 0 is larger than -6).

The last thing you want to do, when willing to learn about the up sides of Protestantism is ask a Catholic priest about them. He will always say that ALL protestans are the children of satan (because from his view, satan is bad) and condemned to burn in hell.

The same goes for seeking information about the Left Hand Path, from a Right Hand Path representative, and vice versa. The point is to get it STRAIGHT from the source, and form an oppinion based on the original info from both sides. Hope i cleared some things up now.

------

And now to bring something new, hopefully more useful, into the discussion. What do you think is the origin of the terms LHP and RHP? (and it's a lot older than the story of Jesus setting all the sheep, which followed him, to his right side, and all the goats, who refused to his left). So what's so 'dirty' about the left hand? I'm also interested, because, coincidently i happen to be lefthanded.

[Morning Glory]

sorry, but Loki is not the ruler of the underworld. Although he is a trickster and likes to cause trouble, he's not usually considered to be evil, and whenever he does any misdeeds, the gods punish him and then he's allowed to continue hanging around them. The goddess that ruled over the underworld was called hel ( sound familiar?) and was the daughter of loki. although the underworld istelf was not called hell, I'm not going to attempt to say it's name cuz it's long and scandinavian and hard to spell. It wasn't anything like the christian hell, it wasn't a horrible place, it just wasn't as fun as valhalla. you just had to chill out with all the other people there, which was most of the people that died, and it was kind of dark and maybe a little damp, and probbily boring if you aren't a very social person. There was a realm that people who were really evil went to be tortured, but I have never heard any of the stores say that anyone actaully went there specifically. most people that pissed off the gods were just obliterated from existance by thors hammer. that's another major difference between any other religion. not everyone who died went to an afterlife. some people did, and some people just died and were no more.

[Goat on Fire]

sorry, but Loki is not the ruler of the underworld. Although he is a trickster and likes to cause trouble, he's not usually considered to be evil, and whenever he does any misdeeds, the gods punish him and then he's allowed to continue hanging around them. The goddess that ruled over the underworld was called hel ( sound familiar?) and was the daughter of loki. although the underworld istelf was not called hell, I'm not going to attempt to say it's name cuz it's long and scandinavian and hard to spell. It wasn't anything like the christian hell, it wasn't a horrible place, it just wasn't as fun as valhalla. you just had to chill out with all the other people there, which was most of the people that died, and it was kind of dark and maybe a little damp, and probbily boring if you aren't a very social person. There was a realm that people who were really evil went to be tortured, but I have never heard any of the stores say that anyone actaully went there specifically. most people that pissed off the gods were just obliterated from existance by thors hammer. that's another major difference between any other religion. not everyone who died went to an afterlife. some people did, and some people just died and were no more.

Youre right... I mixed up the names, and oversimplified some concepts in my moment of utmost frustration....

----------

One more thing before we continue (if at all) with this slooooowwww debate.

(I try to make it faster by cutting out the obvious stuff, but some people just seem to lack competence for this topic, so I must constantly go back and explain, in depth, my statements. This is very frustrating.)

ABOUT THE CONFLICT BETWEEN OLIX AND CALIGULA -

Yes, while OliX's grammer is massively distorted (i.e.: "Who is problem?"; in the thred about assasination), and sometimes creates obsticles in comprehending what he's trying to say, the comments should REMAIN AT THAT (in a constructive, rather than ego-boosting mocking manner).

And, of course, the mis-informed, yet self-rightious behavior should be treated with NO MERCY - but ONLY FOR WHAT IT IS. Thus, the comments should not spread on to, uncalled for, personal attacks, in this case, of intelligence and physical appearance. THAT WOULD BE A WASTE OF ANGER, displayed through a lack of ability to stick to the point.

We all have our faults (remeber self-awareness?) -

I, for instance, haven't written a single post (or e-mail) in my life without mis-types, and ocasional mis-spellings - no matter which of the three languages I actively use: Serbian, English or Swedish. For a live example, check out the red text at the top of my thread about the Darwin Awards. Btw, i hate the 5 minute thread-edit limit. >:-<


There. I think I've fixed just about everything...

...Well at least most of it. :_)

LOL

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So NOW, we can get back to what we were talking about...

[Caligula]

It's an interesting topic, and a very complex one as it's easy to forget, there are very few verifiable 'facts' here and hence inevitably a surfeit of supposition and conjecture. Throw in the problem that some people are inclined to see sundry deities and devils as literal entities, and some - myself included - regard them as purely literary entities, and you've got the recipe for much misunderstanding.

However, it's something I've studied for far longer than is healthy so here's my spin on matters infernal...

I've no idea why people have such a hard time understanding that Satanists do not believe in God or the Devil as anything other than powerful fictions. Evidence that art has far more power than we often allow it, certainly, but not evidence that they 'exist' in the same way you or I do.

'Satan' is derived from the Hebrew for opponent or adversary. As far as I'm aware only the Temple of Set believes the name is a distortion of the Egyptian Set, and that as a consequence of an ill-advised attempt to crossbreed LaVeyan Satanism with Crowleyan Egyptian-flavoured occultism.

This, incidentally, is the source of many of the mistranslations and misunderstandings that introduced the figure of Satan into the Old Testament in the first place. Paradoxically, in proper translation you get revered biblical figures, even Jehovah himself described as 'satans'.

It's a popular theory that Satan and co were a direct result of the demonisation of preceding deities but I think it's been rather overstated. For example, in the case of 'Lucifer', it seems most likely it was a description of a Roman deity rather than a specific god. In the Bible - Isiah I think - the Lucifer reference is almost certainly a metaphorical description of a living king of a rival tribe who may feel powerful now, but according to Hebrew propaganda, was destined to fall like a star from the sky. (Most scholars believe the 'star' was the planet Venus, though I'm no astronomer so I'm taking that on faith.)

The connection between goats and Satan is again I believe more of a metaphorical than mythological one. As a document aimed at ancient Middle Eastern sheep-shaggers, it used agricultural metaphors to make its point. So virtue was associated with sheep - obedient, passive, ripe for shearing - and vice with goats - headstrong, independent, supposedly permanantly horny.

The very fact that Christianity's a faith that reveres sheep says more than I ever could about what's wrong with it. The reason people keep making the same criticisms about Christianity might just be because they're accurate. Note, incidentally, the number of demonic pseudonyms on here and the conspicuous absence of any 'John the Baptists' or 'Virgin Marys'. Suggest anything?

One of the things that fascinates me about Satan, Lucifer, Scratch, whoever, is the way in which he continually manifests in our culture despite the best efforts of monotheism to paint him out of the picture. He becomes the hero of 'Paradise Lost' even though the author was trying to sell us a pious poem, and this fiction is the basis of both what most of us think about Satan today, and also of modern Satanism itself.

Goat on Fire, in many cases I would agree with you. It's always better to attack somebody's position rather than making personal comments. But when that person doesn't appear to have one, and is clearly only intent on trying to fling shit while well out of his depth, then he deserves anything he gets. This is an example of the internet as an assholes charter and I have no compunctions about insulting such impotent individuals in any fashion I see fit. His behaviour may well suggest he needs somebody to wipe his nose for him, but it equally demonstrates he doesn't deserve it. Besides he says he's enjoying it, and what's more has now even constructed a coherent sentence - albeit a rather short and silly one - so surely everybody's happy...

[Goat on Fire]

My pointing out of the association of Satan with the old heathen gods was a reply to an idiotic comment by Yasha D. Speed (tm). He took the 'story' which Satan was adopted to (by xtians), and admitted it as one of his characteristics - this could not be tolerated.

* a side note: he didn't even dignify "his gods" of spelling their names right: it's not Odin and Tyr, it's Oden and Tor.

I did not, in any way, attempt to prove that Satan is restricted ONLY to beeing the christian-crafted, and then misinterpreted, blend of the heathen gods, observed from a correct angle. That would be oversimplifing things AND lacking development. Yasha D. Speed adressed one of my points and I replied ONLY to that, and NOT to the question: "Who is Satan?".

Also, I did't mean that the pagan gods were the source of human desires/characteristics. They were the fictional embodiements, each representing a single, dominant one, and possibly a few marginal ones. Nor did I mean that it was their purpose to be worship-objects (although, sometimes they were), but rather idols to be achieved. In my oppinion, taking into consideration the stage of human psychology (the lack beeing, the need for a firm idol) during which they were active, that was a correct approach towards religion. The ACTUAL BELIEF in them just filled a temporary gap in the field of science. I do not approve of that.

Satan is an idol created in mans own image - not one to be acieved. Of course, I presumed that it goes without saying, that Satan and other deity-oriented concepts are NOT part of the real life exsitance. This can not be stressed enough.

About the lack of a equvalent SAINT - PAGAN GOD relation... The leaders of xtianity had many means of acheiving their goals. If needed, new saints were invented, and some were there befor the first gods were overthrown. They even used confusion, by adopting a few heathen traditions, making 'thier faith' more acceptable AND creating diversions between groups making them easier to control...

Cupid was accepted as a positive character. Also, not all pagan gods were considered significant enogh to be recognised a "demons" and/or "pseudonyms of Satan". If all gods were adressed, how would the 'spiritual beggars' know how to recognise, and eliminate their own nature. By that, I do not consider all people to be Satanic. That would automatically exclude the point of existance of Satanism.

Enogh about xtianity.

About the goat. I have a feeling that you are right, so I will dogmatically accept your explanation. In connection to Satanism, the goat DOES apply to the archetype which you have presented. That still doesn't exclude the connection to Pan. Take this picture for instance.

An interesting thing to note is that the 'horned fist' is pantomymed by the RIGHT hand. How come?

Another DIRECT connection to paganism would be the old Hebrew letters circling the Sigil of Baphomet, spelling out: "LEVIATHAN".

------------

Oh, and i give you two thumbs up, for your approach towards OliX's attempt of avoiding the discussion, by a 'comical relief' - pretending to have come out the victor. When abused in such a manner (due to the lack of arguements) they shoud always be punished by beeing replied to as serous statements. :-)

[Yasha D. Speed]

oden, odin, wotan, woden... who cares? only humans
besides, tyr isn't thor

morning glory's right, the ruler of the underworld was the goddess hel (therefore, hell was called helheim)

the expression scapegoat comes not from pan, but from a practice of ancient hebrew tribes: they basically transferred their sins to a goat and drove it out to the desert. result: dead goat, de-sinned hebrews.

and the deities you named were not exactly admired by their respective peoples.... they were more like "the evil guy you have to appease, because if
you don't, shit starts flying"
so, satan's just an illusion created by humans? then, idon't see any point in being a satanist. if he's an illusion, being a satanist who wants to become like satan makes no more sense than being a "kouji nanjo-ist" because you want to become the ultimate bishounen

[pelelaka]

a quick question, what is an athiest? because i was under the impression that they were people who didnt' have a religeon. but i got confused by the way some people addressed the word, maybe i was misinformed? i don't remember who called it what and this is the longest thread i've looked at yet i'm not about to go back and figure out who it was.

[Caligula]

An athiest is someone who's sure there's 'nothing out there', as opposed to an agnostic who sits on the fence.

[CPRB]

gotta sit somwhere

[Morning Glory]

anyone here listen to the comedy of David Cross? I think he's fuckin funny. he has one skit where he's talking about Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and he's like "This guy believes that black cats are a sign of the devil. no, this is true. He thinks that black cats are a sign of the devil. Let's think about this for a minute... this means that... yes, he actaully believes in The Devil. A little red guy with horns and a tail. "OOh, look at me I'm the devil! hoo!" and a pitchfork for ugh.. pitching.. hay.. even though it's a million degrees in hell, and all the hay burns up.. but yeah. And this place Hell, it's way, way down there. somewhere underground... they haven't quit found it yet... and ya know, the earth is round, so if you go down you end up coming back up on the other side... I don't know quite how it works. They didn't have science when they wrote the Bible, so they're a bunch of fucking morons."

[Goat on Fire]

Originally posted by Yasha D. Speed
...the expression scapegoat comes not from pan, but from a practice of ancient hebrew tribes: they basically transferred their sins to a goat and drove it out to the desert. result: dead goat, de-sinned hebrews.

I knew that... although I thought it were the Greeks... (must have mixed up something)