Whoa... this guy is pretty hardcore

[Nightingale]

If your remember back Clinton bombed Kosovo. Clinton had more support from the international public (which is a good thing and I applaude him for that.)

I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm simply saying it's heavy handed.

The difference here is that Clinton went through the UN and Bush defied the UN and went alone.

[23*]

Bush is causing more people to be killed, along with his government. He's not doing it himself.

Bush cannot be called a war criminal for the same reason that Saddam cannot be called one; neither has been convicted.

That is ridiculous.....are you on drugs too? How much did they cost?

I can see with my own eyes, I do not need to wait until a label is produced. He caused.....he killed....whatever.....same difference if you are mourning your daughters death.

[jynxed hero]

It is bizarre that you consider Sadam a War Criminal and not GWB.

After all George actually does have weapons of mass destruction and is control of the only country to ever use them on a civilian target.

The cowboy made a list of 52 people he wanted dead or alive and in april alone he killed 1,300; keep in mind that that the Atrocities in fallujah must be several times as bad.

GWB is killing Iraqis at a much faster pace than Sadam ever did.

Bush hasn't used them though. He didn't even make them. (Though he wants to make more.) For being an arrogant jackass doesn't equate to Saddam eliminating...whatever branch of Muslims he didn't like...the Suni? I can't recall.

[Morning Glory]

You think that it is a little harsh to call GWB a war criminal????!!

Come on Dude, the guy is a fucking murderer....

Lets see how you feel when he invades your sovereign nation and shoots your children dead in the streets!

and that will be pretty easy considering that tony blair wants to completly disarm your civilians (hitler couldn't have done it better himself). way to go, jackass, you sure showed us how stupid americans are.

[23*]

my point was that he demands other nations to relenquish their WMD even though he has the most in the first place.

...and is in control of the only country to ever use them on a civilian target.

Do you think I am less afraid of an America with WMD than I am of an Iraq? No brother....the terrorist government of America scares me much much more...

[One Eyed Cat]

All you've done is swap the word Bush for Blair, and we know what happened there ...

I never said Bush would not be reelected.


OEC

[23*]

and that will be pretty easy considering that tony blair wants to completly disarm your civilians (hitler couldn't have done it better himself). way to go, jackass, you sure showed us how stupid americans are.

I really can't make out what you are saying....are you calling me a Jackass?

...and I'm not british.

not having weapons is a good thing right?

[Morning Glory]

no doubt. I agree. I will critisize america and bush as much as the next person, probbily more. but there's no need to make such blanket generalisations that all americans are stupid and that we deserve the tyrany of king george, and especially those few of us that actually care about the rest of the world and don't want to support that kind of terrorism, we're just as much the victims as everyone else. we got the terrorists here taking our rights away too.

[One Eyed Cat]

Yugoslavia had no wmd and was no threat to the US. He used illegal munitions and targeted civilians, infrastructure, and non-military facilities. It was based entirely on false information. I could go on and on. The UN mandate was not specific. NATO interpreted it as such. Clinton will always be a war criminal in my book.

OEC

[23*]

All you've done is swap the word Bush for Blair, and we know what happened there ...

and Europeans are a very very different race to Americans....I mean we literally think differently.

We don't follow your example.

I never said all Americans are bad, most Americans are cool.

[Morning Glory]

that's why I called you a jackass, you're just as much of a nationalist nazi as Bush, I don't even want to listen to your ignorance any more.

[23*]

thats not fair.

you just don't want to listen to anything else.

Peace brother.

[Morning Glory]

well maybe not, but I don't see how making generalisations about people based on there race, ethincity, and national origin is going to lead to peace. you have to realise that we're all in this together, it's not about america vs everyone else, or europe vs. america, these are just meaingless labels that are dividing people and it's national superiority on behalf of everyone that has led to this mess as well as most other's in the past. we kill each other over invisble lines drawn on a map, it's fucking ridiculous.

[23*]

What generalisations?
as well as saying the following...

What is worrying is the growing level of racism directed towards America from Europe; now many will say that it is anti-bush, but from my perspective, it often seems pretty damn close to xenophobia.

I also called Tony Blair a war criminal too!

You can't escape the fact that the American government in particular makes the world a more volatile place.....naturally, it will more often be the subject of name calling because of its status.

anyway...i am tired of this thread....wasn't it supposed to be about some old dude?

[Nightingale]

I never said Bush would not be reelected.


OEC

I didn't say that you did ...

[BrightStar]

Eat the Cat's Heart and gain his courage. (Joke) **

[Nightingale]

That is ridiculous.....are you on drugs too? How much did they cost?

I can see with my own eyes, I do not need to wait until a label is produced. He caused.....he killed....whatever.....same difference if you are mourning your daughters death.

I'm glad that you can see all this with your own eyes. Perhaps you've been in Iraq personally and seen what has happened there? I have.

It is a poor way to win an argument if all you can do is ask someone what drugs they are using. There is a phenominal difference between causing someone to die at the hands of another person and killing them yourselves. I don't believe that Bush would have the bottle to kill someone in the situation he has placed his soldiers in; I believe he would sick out and not take the risk he would be injured.

Regardless of which, neither he nor Saddam are war criminals until a court of law judges them as such.

[Nightingale]

Yugoslavia had no wmd and was no threat to the US. He used illegal munitions and targeted civilians, infrastructure, and non-military facilities. It was based entirely on false information. I could go on and on. The UN mandate was not specific. NATO interpreted it as such. Clinton will always be a war criminal in my book.

OEC

Of course, if convicted he could well be; the chances are considerably less, however, because it did go through the UN.

[Nightingale]

thats not fair.

you just don't want to listen to anything else.

Peace brother.

Amusing thought, considering that when someone else offers an opinion the opposite to your's you accuse them of being on drugs.

[One Eyed Cat]

Of course, if convicted he could well be; the chances are considerably less, however, because it did go through the UN.

He was technically convicted in Greece (Obviously, no jurisdiction) World Court turned the Serb petition down. Oh well.


OEC

[Nightingale]

He was technically convicted in Greece (Obviously, no jurisdiction) World Court turned the Serb petition down. Oh well.


OEC

Rather like the court in Houston which attempted to stop the Yukos sale in Russia, no jurisdiction.

It's a shame, really, because if there was a court to which even presidents had to answer for their mistakes, the world would work at a much slower pace as regards invading other countries or committing crimes - or what we would judge to be crimes. Then again, there would be such a backlog of politicians ...

[One Eyed Cat]

Rather like the court in Houston which attempted to stop the Yukos sale in Russia, no jurisdiction.

It's a shame, really, because if there was a court to which even presidents had to answer for their mistakes, the world would work at a much slower pace as regards invading other countries or committing crimes - or what we would judge to be crimes. Then again, there would be such a backlog of politicians ...

Agree. I wish transnational alliances and jurisprudence did work better. It really is a shame. On occasion, the Western World has come together and really helped people out.


OEC

[Nightingale]

Agree. I wish transnational alliances and jurisprudence did work better. It really is a shame. On occasion, the Western World has come together and really helped people out.


OEC

I can't imagine US and European law ever being on the same wavelength, which cuts a western court out of the picture. And to hope that other, easter, middle eastern or wherever, countries would also manage their laws so that they become compatable is rather like hoping an express train will jump onto the other tracks so that it doesn't hit you.

[23*]

Amusing thought, considering that when someone else offers an opinion the opposite to your's you accuse them of being on drugs.

(23* shakes his head). Are you guys intentionally misunderstanding me?

Does it really burst your little bubbles to think of GWB. as a war criminal? The man is waging an illegal war you fools...

If you believe that either of the following two things is true

1. I actually believe that GWB is slaying Iraqis personally with an AK47 or any other weapon,

2. or that "what drugs are you on?" is anything more than a phrase...

Then it is your semantic skills that are at a loss,

incidentally are you a native english speaker? because you seem to be missing something, if you'd actually read my posts you'd see that I had some pretty fair points.

Peace brother

[One Eyed Cat]

I can't imagine US and European law ever being on the same wavelength, which cuts a western court out of the picture. And to hope that other, easter, middle eastern or wherever, countries would also manage their laws so that they become compatable is rather like hoping an express train will jump onto the other tracks so that it doesn't hit you.

That's probably true, unfortunately. The World Court tends to serve political goals rather than any need for justice.

OEC

[Nightingale]

(23* shakes his head). Are you guys intentionally misunderstanding me?

Does it really burst your little bubbles to think of GWB. as a war criminal? The man is waging an illegal war you fools...

If you believe that either of the following two things is true

1. I actually believe that GWB is slaying Iraqis personally with an AK47 or any other weapon,

2. or that "what drugs are you on?" is anything more than a phrase...

Then it is your semantic skills that are at a loss,

incidentally are you a native english speaker? because you seem to be missing something, if you'd actually read my posts you'd see that I had some pretty fair points.

Peace brother

Really. Hey, welcome to the real world out here, where people disagree with you without the need to be on drugs (even ones highlighted in red).

There was nothing to misunderstand.

[Nightingale]

That's probably true, unfortunately. The World Court tends to serve political goals rather than any need for justice.

OEC

Depends, of course, on which side of the political spectrum you are on and whether you're being prosecuted or trying to prosecute someone. The method in which a person can be brought before the court is very political, it would be good if the court could work its way to being a court of law rather than anything else, but I suspect that's a long way off.

[23*]

hehehe...


peace

[Morning Glory]

"War Crimes" is a fucking joke. It's is ILLEGAL to use posion and nerve gas (bad, bad saddam! I guess it's also illegal to have them, or just illegal to have none, as long as someone else says you have them.) It is perfectly LEGAL to use "nuculer" bombs that spread radiation for miles that destroys the land and causes slow death and mutation for generations afterwards (go USA!We're #1!)

Here's the real clause when it comes to war crimes: If *WE* do it, it's fine. If *THEY* do it, it's a heinous crime.

(insert your country and it's opposition in place of *-*)

[karyn]

that's why I called you a jackass, you're just as much of a nationalist nazi as Bush, I don't even want to listen to your ignorance any more.

i hate that i am going to have to agree with Morning Glory here. i hate how much the war costs. i would rather have lower taxes. voting Republican is supposed to lower taxes.

europeans are not racially different from Americans. race has little to no scientifically proven impact on thought process.

how did a thread about how cool it is that an old guy is a badass turn into a thread about whether leaders of britain and America are war criminals?

right or wrong, we are winning. crime is defined by law. winners make the laws.

[Morning Glory]

umm.. cuz we got some old guys that are in office that like old guys that fight bears and cougars they fight iraqis? I don't know. good call.

[Morning Glory]

Final synopsis: Old people suck.

unless they're cool.

[ForrestBlack]

Final synopsis: Old people suck.

unless they're cool.

What is wrong with getting older? Yeah, it's your responsibility to not grow into being a sucky person, but I'm totally against the notion that somehow the inexperienced youth are intrinsically less sucky. It's usually young jerks that make older people want to give up on being cool.

[23*]

"War Crimes" is a fucking joke. It's is ILLEGAL to use posion and nerve gas (bad, bad saddam! I guess it's also illegal to have them, or just illegal to have none, as long as someone else says you have them.) It is perfectly LEGAL to use "nuculer" bombs that spread radiation for miles that destroys the land and causes slow death and mutation for generations afterwards (go USA!We're #1!)

Here's the real clause when it comes to war crimes: If *WE* do it, it's fine. If *THEY* do it, it's a heinous crime.

(insert your country and it's opposition in place of *-*)

my point exactly

Actually Karen, this is a very interesting topic. No one is saying that Americans are better than Europeans or vica-versa. But we (europeans) do think differently in general....and we certainly have different approaches and mannerisms. That is why so many europeans are completly bewildered by American politics....they fail to recognise that we in Ireland (insert your european country here)have more in common culturally with France or the Czech Rebublic (insert any other European country here) than with America. Its not a racial distinction, its a cultural one.

incidentally i don't appreciate being called a nazi.


peace

[Morning Glory]

sorry, I just meant national socialist worker.

[23*]

right or wrong, we are winning. crime is defined by law. winners make the laws.

and thats much closer to nazism anyway!!



peace

[Morning Glory]

What is wrong with getting older? Yeah, it's your responsibility to not grow into being a sucky person, but I'm totally against the notion that somehow the inexperienced youth are intrinsically less sucky. It's usually young jerks that make older people want to give up on being cool.

hey, I said unless they're cool.

[karyn]

and thats much closer to nazism anyway!!



peace

i don't think so. you can say you don't like them, but you can't call them war criminals. only losers end up being called war criminals. you just go ahead and name me the big list of winners who got convicted of war crimes charges by losing nations. that is not nazism. that is fact checking.

from merriam webster

Main Entry: Na·zism
Pronunciation: 'nät-"si-z&m, 'nat-
Variant(s): or Na·zi·ism /-sE-"i-z&m/
Function: noun
Etymology: Nazi + -ism
: the body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the National Socialist German Workers' party in the Third German Reich including the totalitarian principle of government, state control of all industry, predominance of groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer

[23*]

yes I know what Nazism is!

did you need to look it up in the dictionary?

plus...you can be a war criminal without being convicted of war crimes.

for example, if you saw someone breaking into your house you would know that they were a criminal right? You wouldn't have to wait for the police to tell you.....or would you?

[Morning Glory]

Main Entry: Soup Na·zi
Pronunciation: 'süp 'nät-"si-, 'nat-
Variant(s): or Soup Na·zi·ism /-sE-"i-z&m/
Function: noun
Etymology: Soup + Nazi + -ism
: the body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the National Socialist German Culinary party in the Third Kitchen Reich including the totalitarian principle of cooking, state control of all soup, predominance of groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the Soup