Matthew Reed from TigerLilly Tattoo and DesignWorks Sues Over Tattoo Design Ownership

[Tequila Zaire]

good for them. maybe MTV can make a new show called "talk about shit" and pay us all, that'd be nice, but it wouldn't do much to change the situation about the NBA would it? it probibly wouldn't help out the people of compton very much if we went out and spent that money on buying computers for everyone, and then they could all join in this discussion and we could say how great it is that we got payed by rich folks to talk about shit, but they would still be poor.

I think you missed the point. MTV's show is based around a buisness that was already established, successful, and still pretty much oporated by what would be called blue collared workers. MTV had zero to do with their success...that came from doing heavily modified cars for many wealthy sports stars and entertianers.

[karyn]

good for them. maybe MTV can make a new show called "talk about shit" and pay us all, that'd be nice, but it wouldn't do much to change the situation about the NBA would it? it probibly wouldn't help out the people of compton very much if we went out and spent that money on buying computers for everyone, and then they could all join in this discussion and we could say how great it is that we got payed by rich folks to talk about shit, but they would still be poor.

i'd say that pimp my ride has provided jobs for people in compton and improved a number of people's quality of life. here is the address for West Coast Customs
855 West Victoria Unit C
Compton, California 90220
United States

[Morning Glory]

So the way this would work is that the TV stations would pay the NBA less and the team owners would pay the stadiums less and the players less and the hotdog venders less and basically the huge machine of tons of people who make their living from the sports industry, down to the high school kid at Foot Locker, should all make less money and this would be a good thing? How would the money that was then not going to player salaries end up building up public schools and such? Would you just raise taxes on everyone in the community, so that someone who once would have paid $100 for a ticket, now pays $25 for the ticket and $75 in taxes? What about people like me who are not really interested in sports and would not have paid the $100 for a ticket? Should I also have my taxes raised so sports stars could be paid less?

In summary, money needs a conduit to get from point A to point B. There has to be a mechanism of transfer and such mechanisms impact real people.

how about not being communist? you don't have to pay the government to do shit around your community, you could do it yourself, and if you got payed fairly then you'd have a lot more money, and would probibly be more inclined to do so.

[karyn]

I don't even know what we are talking about anymore. it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. so yeah..I still stand by my statement that if that guy can get money from them, then it's all good, after all Isn't that the true inventive capitalist spirit?

no. the point of capitalism is not to be a leech. whether this particular guy should get paid depends on the agreement he made with the player he inked.

[Morning Glory]

I think you missed the point. MTV's show is based around a buisness that was already established, successful, and still pretty much oporated by what would be called blue collared workers. MTV had zero to do with their success...that came from doing heavily modified cars for many wealthy sports stars and entertianers.

see I kinda doubt that when they take a 80 dollar car and put 200k worth of shit in it and not charge the owner anything to boot, that they are a regular good old fashion blue collar shop. if most shops are willing to drop thousands of dollars on your ride our of pocket, then I must be going to the wrong places. now a shop that's getting payed a shitload of money from a billion dollar coporation...

[karyn]

how about not being communist? you don't have to pay the government to do shit around your community, you could do it yourself, and if you got payed fairly then you'd have a lot more money, and would probibly be more inclined to do so.

most people already charge the most they can for whatever they do. if someone asks if you want fries with that and they can get $8/hour instead of $7/hour, do you really think they will turn the extra dollar down? people who have a lot already do charity work in the system we have. lots of athletes do charity work. how would ripping the athletes off put more charity into the community? the market determines how much people get paid. what could be fairer than that?

[Morning Glory]

no. the point of capitalism is not to be a leech. whether this particular guy should get paid depends on the agreement he made with the player he inked.

um... capitalism is paying somone money to do shit. since you are either the one doing shit or paying the money, it relies on someone else to either pay you or do shit, so the entire system is about leeching off others. unless you keep control of all your own labour and print your own money. but if you do that then you will go to jail, because that is illegal.

[karyn]

um... capitalism is paying somone money to do shit. since you are either the one doing shit or paying the money, it relies on someone else to either pay you or do shit, so the entire system is about leeching off others. unless you keep control of all your own labour and print your own money. but if you do that then you will go to jail, because that is illegal.

if you know how to put ink on someone's arm and someone wants ink on their arm and is willing to pay you $450 for it, then them paying you for your worthwhile labor is capitalism. if you are trading something of value for money, that is not being a leech. asking for more money later is not capitalism. that is just whining.

[Morning Glory]

most people already charge the most they can for whatever they do. if someone asks if you want fries with that and they can get $8/hour instead of $7/hour, do you really think they will turn the extra dollar down? people who have a lot already do charity work in the system we have. lots of athletes do charity work. how would ripping the athletes off put more charity into the community? the market determines how much people get paid. what could be fairer than that?

most people that give to charities aren't a part of thier benfactor, that's the difference. also I can't even see how you can possiblely think that the market determing wage is fair, because the rich people are the one's that control the market, not the poor people. a ceo doesn't make 800,000 a year because his job is moree crucial to the workings of the company than a guy that cooks the fries... once again, no one cooks fries, no one buys fries, ceo don't get any dough.

[Tequila Zaire]

see I kinda doubt that when they take a 80 dollar car and put 200k worth of shit in it and not charge the owner anything to boot, that they are a regular good old fashion blue collar shop. if most shops are willing to drop thousands of dollars on your ride our of pocket, then I must be going to the wrong places. now a shop that's getting payed a shitload of money from a billion dollar coporation...

huh? We're not talking about the "show" we're talking about the ACTUAL shop. Forget the show they do for MTV that's VERY diffrent from the work they actually do and the people they work for and with.

The point was that it's an example of trickle down...rich sports stars contract them to customize their cars...they do so for a hefty sum thus keeping their employees paid...many of who are what is called a blue collar worker. It's a very direct effect of sports stars putting money into the "lower" spectrum of the ecenomic foodchain. Work like this done well and to highly skilled levels is a great way for people of the blue collar world to get paid well for the skills they have. Does the world NEED pimped out cars for stars? Nope...but it needs people employed and in that's exactly what this does.

[karyn]

random snippets from the nba web site

For many NBA players, summer is the ideal time to continue charity efforts in the communities that support them throughout their basketball careers. During this year’s NBA Summer of Goodwill, players have continued a long-standing NBA tradition by hosting hundreds of community events and appearances in the United States and abroad.

[Tequila Zaire]

most people that give to charities aren't a part of thier benfactor, that's the difference. also I can't even see how you can possiblely think that the market determing wage is fair, because the rich people are the one's that control the market, not the poor people. a ceo doesn't make 800,000 a year because his job is moree crucial to the workings of the company than a guy that cooks the fries... once again, no one cooks fries, no one buys fries, ceo don't get any dough.

Actually he does cause it is...hate to break it to you but making fries is nowhere near the same as running a company. Hell fry making is nearly all automated these days...you toss the fried into the frying basket and leave em in till your signaled to take em out and let em cool...it's much less demanding than dealing with the entire well beaing of a company and it's workers.

No one cooks fries no one eats fries? Try...no one wants to BUY fries and no one MAKES fries....they only exist cause they can be sold.

[Amelia G]

most people that give to charities aren't a part of thier benfactor, that's the difference. also I can't even see how you can possiblely think that the market determing wage is fair, because the rich people are the one's that control the market, not the poor people. a ceo doesn't make 800,000 a year because his job is moree crucial to the workings of the company than a guy that cooks the fries... once again, no one cooks fries, no one buys fries, ceo don't get any dough.

Now I could probably do a CEO job all right for a big company and I probably won't be given the chance to do so, unless I build my own company up. This is perhaps unfair. I would have no trouble getting a fry-cooking job even though I don't know how to cook fries yet, but I would have trouble getting a job which used much more of my real life current skill set.

Of course, some CEOs are going to be better than others. A good CEO is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more crucial than a person who makes the fries. There are far more people who can be trained to make fries than there are people who could lead a company.

You are not really saying a fry cook and a CEO should get the same paycheck, are you?

[Morning Glory]

so more money for more useless shit and less money for all the things that i said we need money for, and we do, is supposed to be a good thing? it's not about making money, I don't think everyone should make a shitload of money because they deserve it just for being employed, that would only lead to hyper inflation and things would be exactly the same. it's responsible management of that money that was my point.

[Morning Glory]

Now I could probably do a CEO job all right for a big company and I probably won't be given the chance to do so, unless I build my own company up. This is perhaps unfair. I would have no trouble getting a fry-cooking job even though I don't know how to cook fries yet, but I would have trouble getting a job which used much more of my real life current skill set.

Of course, some CEOs are going to be better than others. A good CEO is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more crucial than a person who makes the fries. There are far more people who can be trained to make fries than there are people who could lead a company.

You are not really saying a fry cook and a CEO should get the same paycheck, are you?

No, it's that the market and wages are not fair. if it was up to the fry cooker then he'd probbily charge 2 million dollars for a frie, so that he could make 800,000 too. however... if that ceo didn't make 800,000 and made say just for example 400,000 that's still a pretty good fucking amount of money and i'm sure that all the fry cookers wouldn't complain about having 400,000 added to thier salaries amongst them, even if it was only a 2 dollar increase.

[Tequila Zaire]

Thins is...this "useless shit" pays for a lot of the stuff we need. Be it pimped out cars, sports tickets, CD's, books, games, website subscriptions, etc...all of it eventually finds it's way in some form or another to a city, state, or nations economy. How responsible all that is managed is up to those who draw up and control such budgets. One can see your point...but the focus of it is way off the mark....way way waaaaaaaaaaaay off.

[Tequila Zaire]

No, it's that the market and wages are not fair. if it was up to the fry cooker then he'd probbily charge 2 million dollars for a frie, so that he could make 800,000 too. however... if that ceo didn't make 800,000 and made say just for example 400,000 that's still a pretty good fucking amount of money and i'm sure that all the fry cookers wouldn't complain about having 400,000 added to thier salaries amongst them, even if it was only a 2 dollar increase.

That's just not how it works...nor should it. You can't penalize success cause other people don't get a fair cut of the pie.

[ForrestBlack]

so more money for more useless shit and less money for all the things that i said we need money for, and we do, is supposed to be a good thing? it's not about making money, I don't think everyone should make a shitload of money because they deserve it just for being employed, that would only lead to hyper inflation and things would be exactly the same. it's responsible management of that money that was my point.

Can you clearly explain how the system should work, in your opinion? I don't want to make inaccurate assumptions, so I think it's fair to ask what the model should be? Without trying to put too much spin on it, how could we pay the socially valued workers more? I'm not sure I understand your ideal cash flow model, and I'd rather hear it from you.

[Morning Glory]

No one cooks fries no one eats fries? Try...no one wants to BUY fries and no one MAKES fries....they only exist cause they can be sold.

come on, if fast food chains collapsed tommorrow, you're telling me that no one in the world would cut up thier own potatoes and make some fries, just because they like to eat fries, and not because they can be bought and sold? I know I would. I like fries. I ate some fries tonight.

[Tequila Zaire]

come on, if fast food chains collapsed tommorrow, you're telling me that no one in the world would cut up thier own potatoes and make some fries, just because they like to eat fries, and not because they can be bought and sold? I know I would. I like fries. I ate some fries tonight.

People already do that....you're point was that if no one cooks em no one buys em. Tell ya what if fast food chains collapsed tommorow...MANY would be selling their homemade fries and burgers in a heartbeat...it's be a rebirth of the same beast.

[Morning Glory]

Can you clearly explain how the system should work, in your opinion? I don't want to make inaccurate assumptions, so I think it's fair to ask what the model should be? Without trying to put too much spin on it, wow could we pay the socially valued workers more? I'm not sure I understand your ideal cash flow model, and I'd rather hear it from you.

dude, I don't have the power to be able to complelety overhaul the system, and then try to impliment how everyone is going to fit into that new system, nor would I want to, that would make me an asshole, that would make me like a president. why would I want to tell everyone what to do? I wouldn't even know where to begin, the only feasible solution would be to tear down civilization and start from scratch. either that or have everyone quit thier jobs and burn all thier money and take back control of thier labour and resources... but as long as material goods exist in unequal distribution there's always going to be greedy people that try to take more than they need at the expense of other people. I don't see any real solution to the problem, and it's only going to get worse. hate to be a pessimist, but I think we're fucked.

[Morning Glory]

like my ideal civlization would be the one of the native americans. they blieved that they belonged to the earth and not the other way around like we seem to today. they were thankful that they got food from the ground and the animals, and if they had some food, they'd eat it, and if someone was hungry they'd give it to them. same with everything. because they knew that there life was much better if somone else had shit too, instead of them just having useless shit that they wouldn't even use other than to prove thery had more and were better than someone else, which they wouldn't wanna be. and if you wanted to come live with them and share with them, they'd let you as long as you didn't try to fuck up thier shit, which some people did, and that's why they had wars, but they didn't change and become the same as their enemies for it, they were smart enough to see that was pointless as well. of course then a bunch of fucking white men came and killed them all and took all thier shit, so the moral is that white people fucking suck.

[ForrestBlack]

dude, I don't have the power to be able to complelety overhaul the system, and then try to impliment how everyone is going to fit into that new system, nor would I want to, that would make me an asshole, that would make me like a president. why would I want to tell everyone what to do? I wouldn't even know where to begin, the only feasible solution would be to tear down civilization and start from scratch. either that or have everyone quit thier jobs and burn all thier money and take back control of thier labour and resources... but as long as material goods exist in unequal distribution there's always going to be greedy people that try to take more than they need at the expense of other people. I don't see any real solution to the problem, and it's only going to get worse. hate to be a pessimist, but I think we're fucked.

No, don't misunderstand me. I just wanted to get an idea of what your economic philosophy looked like, from a holistic point of view. You could say that doctors and teachers have honorable professions, perhaps even more so, in your opinion, than say pro quarterbacks. But, I'm not sure education and medical care should cost more than they already do, so how can we put things right by giving star athletes less? I just want to understand your position better. I'm not trying to poke at you, I just feel like maybe I missed something.

[ForrestBlack]

like my ideal civlization would be the one of the native americans. they blieved that they belonged to the earth and not the other way around like we seem to today. they were thankful that they got food from the ground and the animals, and if they had some food, they'd eat it, and if someone was hungry they'd give it to them. same with everything. because they knew that there life was much better if somone else had shit too, instead of them just having useless shit that they wouldn't even use other than to prove thery had more and were better than someone else, which they wouldn't wanna be. and if you wanted to come live with them and share with them, they'd let you as long as you didn't try to fuck up thier shit, which some people did, and that's why they had wars, but they didn't change and become the same as their enemies for it, they were smart enough to see that was pointless as well. of course then a bunch of fucking white men came and killed them all and took all thier shit, so the moral is that white people fucking suck.

Only some indians believed that stuff though. There were many tribes that were a lot more warlike. They frequently did the exact same stuff to each other on a perhaps smaller scale. We just don't have as many classes/books on precolumbian tribal history. I think you can find more flaws in the white man's history only because you know more of the white man's history.

[Morning Glory]

well at least some of them did. no one does that today. not because they would but because I think we're fucking crazy. it's illegal to do those things, any means of survival that isn't profitable to someone else is against the law. I mean we all believe in democracy right? does the general population think the constitution is bullshit? cuz the very first line is "all men are created equal", but when I say that everyone should share and give, that everyone should get the same, that people should be truly equal, it's like a hand over a hot stove, they pull away and refuse to listen to you?

[ForrestBlack]

does the general population think the constitution is bullshit? cuz the very first line is "all men are created equal", but when I say that everyone should share and give, that everyone should get the same, that people should be truly equal, it's like a hand over a hot stove, they pull away and refuse to listen to you?

It says created equal. The Constitution tries to give us all a reasonably fair start. The rest is up to the individual and how well they pursue whatever their perception of the American dream is. If I invest poorly, should I always get bailed out? If your interest was janitorial services, and you worked as hard on those skills as even the average pro player, odds are good you would be running your own janitorial company with a large number of employees and clients. People that don't advance themselves, well, they don't deserve the success. Different people define success differently though. Maybe the mop pushing janitor plays great Jazz at night and is more focused on his art than his day job. We have the freedom to make these choices for ourselves.

[Jax]

It really shows your lack of immaturity to have resort to saying "quite whining" because you can't even use intelligent points to explain your own contradictory arguements. anyway, here's some interesting facts that shed some light on the situation...

African Americans account for 12% of the US population
13% of drug users in US
35% of arrests for drug possesion in US
55% of convinctions for drug possesion in US
74% of prison sentances for drug possesion in US
1/4 of all black men in US are either in prison or on parole for non-violent charges
In washington, DC, Baltimore, New York, New jersey and Florida 99% of black males have arrest records
2/3 of black male high school students will be dead, disabled, or in prison before thier 13th birthday
for every black man that goes to college, three will go to prison
In the year 2000 half of the population of African Americans in the US will have gone to prison

With that in mind, please tell me how easy it is for anyone to get a good job?

ROFLMAO...thats all I have to say to your poor arguement.

[Jax]

Stay on up there darlin, and kick any who try to take you down.

The whole idea of whining that people get paid too much is silly as all hell. Sports stars get paid alot...average players however do not. At least not in the way many seem to think. As it's been stated before...they have to make the cash they make last a lifetime or use their career to enter other professions. Average pro careers aren't all that long. You earn as much as your talent and business sense will take you...some are better at it than others. Why is their such a double standard for sports stars but not uber rock and pop stars who make shitty music? All of it screams jealousy...and this crap about not being able to get a better job is BS...ANYONE can get a better job if they look hard enough or at least learn to manage their money better.

It's pathetic when people look down on others for having it better than they do.

Thats what Im sayin. I dont look down on anyone, but crap, if you dont like your job, get a new one. No offense to those that feel oppressed, but ummm yeah.

[Jax]

I mean look at the alternative's to my points- the two arguments are that mothers that can't afford to pay the cost of raising thier children are sissies that complain too much, and that racism in economics of this country is ok and it's the minorities fault for not showing enough initiative. You're right, you sure showed me what's what.

LOL. Sissies...no...people who cant bitch...yes. Quit having kids. Simple...again.... Lol I love the ....racism never came into it until your crap post about african american statistics.

[Jax]

Who's accusing you? You're proving it all on your own. Discredit you? You're making it sound like one needs to but effort into that. What facts? Cutting and pasting statistics is not exactly an amazing skill...you never even stated what they were suppose to prove. You happily went on the tagent that they are paid too much and some silly ass notion that the pro level is somehow equal to the backyard versions we've all played or do play. What else can you call it but bitching and moaning when a person complains about someone elses good fotrune and wealth? Nothing you've stated here has anything remotely close to factual arguments...just blind opinion bordering on maniacal jealousy.

You spout off statistics about how hard it is to be a black man in this country then complain they make too much when they play pro sports.


No one is being marveled by the brilliance of me or anyone else picking apart what you say...none of this is about you, only what you say. No one is aking you to get on your knees and worship sports stars...no one is asking you to change your opinions...they are mearly being challenged. Cause so far the only one who doesn't want to hear much of anything here is you.

Im marveling in your brilliance;]

[Jax]

I got a solution with what we can do with the money made by proffesional sports stars, how about we put it into public education and city services so that those 'statistics' can have a choice other than one percent likelyhood of success (IE: becoming famous basketball stars) or 97% likleyhood of failure (jail, unemployment, not going to college, etc.) ?

How much are YOU contributing? Id like to see how much you are payinfg for things like this out of your own paychecks. So far Im making over 200 a night, and NOPE wont see me paying for other people .

[Jax]

A cool thing about what I do is that I can do it well past the age of 30 and most sports stars can't. I couldn't have been a sports star, as I lack the aptitude. I wish our society were better at teaching kids about their options before they had to go out into the world and make choices. I feel like some of my choices could have been better informed, but I actually do believe that an NBA star should make more than I do.

I hope I bring pleasure to a lot of people with my work, but I don't kid myself that I entertain as many people as Shaquille O'Neal (probably spelled wrong because I don't know my sports) or anyone like him. There is not the same business structure in place for even the most talented punk rock photographer to make the kind of dough that a talented basketball player makes. And I knew that when I chose to pick up a camera.

*high five*

Im entertained, and so are everyone I recommend your websites to;]

[Jax]

Are you saying that someone who worked his whole life to play basketball at the highest level and earn a lot of money but only for a few years should be taxed such that he is forced to make no more than the kid who smoked out during class and shows up late for his Mickey D's job?

And then what is that sports star supposed to do afterwards? Get a Mickey D's job as well? He would probably show up for work as he has built up self discipline.

And maybe actually get my order right...haha. I always say that people in fast food jobs dont need more than a size 8 foot size IQ. I hate having to drive back to get it right. But then again, after a 10 hour shift Im a bitch;]

[Morning Glory]

::sighs:: the point of me bringing up racism is the proof that it's not just so easy as you make it seem for anyone to walk into a company and get a good job. you can blame these people for thier misfortunes.. but when you consider the fact that 75% of the people that do drugs are white, and 75% of the people that go to prison FOR doing drugs are black, it paints another picture, one that seems a little bit less than coincidence. when you factor in that many products and jobs are now being made by prison labor, which is slave labor and can get by without paying people even close to what the minimum wage is ( which isn't even hardly close to what the Living wage is, for that matter) then you might start to see how putting people in jail instead of encouraging them to get "good" jobs and good paying jobs is more economically feasable. IE: profitable.

as far as not having kids go, well at this point in my life, thanks to this system I can't afford to raise kids, and I wouldn't attempt to for that very reason. however, It's not my fault that we live in a society that values useless shit and dispensible consumption over quality of life and progression of mankind.

As I don't have a job right now I make zero income, however I do volunteer my time and regulary give what I can to charities. I often see selfish people use thier own selfishness as proof that no one does anything for anyone else, but in reality there are many people that actaully do care about others and take the time and effort to do something about it.

I respect your oppinions, and value your imput. and often I usually agree with you, but I'm not going to kiss your ass and tell you how great and right you are when I don't. I don't see that as brilliance, sorry.

[Jax]

I respect your oppinions, and value your imput. and often I usually agree with you, but I'm not going to kiss your ass and tell you how great and right you are when I don't. I don't see that as brilliance, sorry.

I would hope noone would just kiss my ass and tell me how right I am if they dont agree.

Agree to disagree on this one;]

[tatdownthere]

I would hope noone would just kiss my ass and tell me how right I am if they dont agree.

Agree to disagree on this one;]

can i kisss your beautiful ass either way
j/k