do you think it is cool to hate your country?

[karyn]

whatever country you are from, do you think it is cool to hate your country?

[killerkat]

no, just america,haha.....and i don't hate the contry ,america is a great country,BUT our people/Gov. have gone to shit(more so),and i don't even wan't to talk about our "leader".......let's just say i was sad when i heard that grenade missed him last week........

[One Eyed Cat]

No, but you have to take into account tyrannical governments. In those instances, you would work to overthrow the motherfuckers. I see no basis for hating America.

OEC

[killerkat]

No, but you have to take into account tyrannical governments. In those instances, you would work to overthrow the motherfuckers.

OEC

or very well 'gized Tyrannical Governments,wwwwink.........

[Morning Glory]

good one killerkat. to answer your childish question, whcih is aimed at me/ No, I don't hate america, I don't hate most of the people in america that are just trying to get by and a victims of a fucked up system. I don't think it's "cool" to hate your country. I don't give a fuck about what is cool and what isn't. I care about what is right and what is wrong, and killing people and doing things that cause people to be killed for personal greed is wrong. I think it's also wrong to exploit the people that died in the world trade center as motivation to further that cause, as our government and media has done. I do care about the people that died, I don't care about a building and what it stands for.

[One Eyed Cat]

or very well 'gized Tyrannical Governments,wwwwink.........

I just don't buy it. If my family had remained in Ukraine, we'd all be dead. I also believe Bush's trip to Georgia was one of his better moves. The Georgians showed a lot of guts in removing those basturds.

OEC

[killerkat]

sorry to get deep here people ,but i had to add this....

there is documanted evidence of unlawfull war tactics or whatever you call them being used by our forces in direct commend of our "leader"....

and the Italian reporter who first documanted the those and other worse war crimes,was secretly killed,with a a cover -up

the other journalist,an american, that documented many such war crimes,was also killed in a elaborate ,BUT sloppy Cover-up........

our president withdrew from that Group(i'm sorry i forgot the name) JUST so that he wouldn't be investigate for war crimes.....

that certainly something to think about,huh.........

[killerkat]

I just don't buy it. If my family had remained in Ukraine, we'd all be dead. I also believe Bush's trip to Georgia was one of his better moves. The Georgians showed a lot of guts in removing those basturds.

OEC

yea,sorry that was more of a ,uhh, "joke" i guess........

we're Obvously not comparable to many gov. around the world, BUt i've grown very tired of the whole "well so what we have it good ,look at S. aFrica" or whatever other country people name .....

that just says "scapegoat" to me....



this really has notheing to do with what you said ,pleas don't take offence.OEC.....



by the way,i really don't like the come back of the politcal crap,i think we should limit oueselves this time,people........

[OliX]

I don't understand how someone can hate any country... It's okay if you hate goverement.........but country?!?

[killerkat]

I don't understand how someone can hate any country... It's okay if you hate goverement.........but country?!?

exactly.......the land is beutiful no matter where....

[One Eyed Cat]

yea,sorry that was more of a ,uhh, "joke" i guess........

we're Obvously not comparable to many gov. around the world, BUt i've grown very tired of the whole "well so what we have it good ,look at S. aFrica" or whatever other country people name .....

that just says "scapegoat" to me....



this really has notheing to do with what you said ,pleas don't take offence.OEC.....



by the way,i really don't like the come back of the politcal crap,i think we should limit oueselves this time,people........

I take no offense I just want people to consider the efforts that went on Georgia. I would tend to agree that an extended conversation on our social woes is a bit much.

OEC

[killerkat]

I take no offense I just want people to consider the efforts that went on Georgia. I would tend to agree that an extended conversation on our social woes is a bit much.

OEC

i also think it was a good EFFORT,but making russia mad is about the stuipest thing you could ever do,

in all history what does russia have,PEOPLE.....
now what do they have PEOPLE+TECHNOLOGY=don't uck with them

this is why hitler was smart,he looked from Napllean and relized you can't attack russia with half force........


i in no way think hitler was good,he was terrible,BUT he was a good military leader,anyone who doubts that is an idiot.....

[Morning Glory]

I take no offense I just want people to consider the efforts that went on Georgia. I would tend to agree that an extended conversation on our social woes is a bit much.

OEC

what effort? that's not what I heard, FoX News said that Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul defeated communism, and now there are no dictatorships or poverty cuz we brought Democracy Tm. to Russia and now everyone just eats Mcdonalds and goes to Disney Land and takes valium and enjoys all that Freedom (c).

[One Eyed Cat]

what effort? that's not what I heard, FoX News said that Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul defeated communism, and now there are no dictatorships or poverty cuz we brought Democracy Tm. to Russia and now everyone just eats Mcdonalds and goes to Disney Land and takes valium and enjoys all that Freedom (c).

I was thinking more of the efforts of Georgian people. The Russians need to get off their knees. I honestly don't care how they feel about much of anything until they do.

OEC

[Morning Glory]

I was being sarcastic.

[One Eyed Cat]

i also think it was a good EFFORT,but making russia mad is about the stuipest thing you could ever do,

in all history what does russia have,PEOPLE.....
now what do they have PEOPLE+TECHNOLOGY=don't uck with them

this is why hitler was smart,he looked from Napllean and relized you can't attack russia with half force........


i in no way think hitler was good,he was terrible,BUT he was a good military leader,anyone who doubts that is an idiot.....

Russia needs to accept the loss of their empire. It has nothing to do with the pros or cons of the United States.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

I was being sarcastic.

I know

OEC

[Morning Glory]

[Nightmare Pin]

I dont hate America, but i can damn well understand why the rest of the world does and no it doesnt have anything to do with jealousy of our supposed freedoms...its our ignorant foreign policies, war-mongering and moral high ground bullshit ….

the problem with america is that americans tend to think of the world in terms of us and them...theres a big bright world out there folks and if we weren't busy bombing and antagonising it death they'd be busy laughing at us....

I feel so cool…

[Evilbink]

Look at any countrys policies and governments and you will find flaws. They all suck to their own extent, so save yourself some controversy and just do what I do... HATE THEM ALL. Organized goverment and religions are a plague to the entire planet. How about a bit of world wide natural disaster to make everyone realize how small we all really are.

Just a bit of my pleasant optimism

[devil13]

do you think it is cool to hate your country?

"COOL" ???????
no its not cool to hate your own country. so far we all agree that we may not like the politics but we love our country. so does that mean we are all "cool" for not liking our politics? wow I have never been one of the cool kids before

[Nightmare Pin]

I agree with Woody Harrelson...

"I am proud to be an American but much prouder to be a citizen of the world because, having traveled the globe, I’ve found people everywhere are worthy of loving (even the French). Muslims, Europeans, Central Americans, Native Americans, Chinese, Russians, Israelis and Arabs are all happy to open their homes and ready to lend a hand…kindness is not race, religion or nation specific. In fact, I believe most of my brothers and sisters on this planet are good and kind and care about their families and value their friends. We all want to keep our families safe. But there is no kindness in U.S. foreign policy. Dennis Kucinich just told me that this administration, after already bolstering the Pentagon budget to $400 billion, will push for $500 billion. When more than half of every hard earned dollar goes to support acts of terrorism by the government that is using its weapons of mass destruction on innocent people on a fairly regular basis, it creates a certain responsibility that I have to reckon with. "

[Titus]

i in no way think hitler was good,he was terrible,BUT he was a good military leader,anyone who doubts that is an idiot.....

Call me an idiot but I pretty much think it depends on where you lead people to...by the way, that's what lots of Indian schoolbooks still write: Hitler - great German military leader. And that's about it. I even saw a fucking jeans-commercial with an Indian guy dressed up as Hitler. Leave away the Hindus who believe he was incarnation of Kalki/Vishnu, the destroyer of worlds. I think that's all just a myth. The whole demonizing-thing about Hitler sucks. I don't think breaking contracts and stabbing even your own followers in the back (like Röhm) does make a great military leader. It reveals the character of a rat. Same with Stalin, of course. I think T.E. Lawrence was a great military leader, he is one of the few military guys who impressed me.

ps: I used to hate my country as a self-hating German, but didn't think about the coolness aspect. I do think that nationalism sucks, and patriotism as well if it gets close to it.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

whatever country you are from, do you think it is cool to hate your country?

That's a bit of a trick question don't you think? Is it cool to hate my country? Will it get me invited to the good parties? Will it make chicks want to date me? Does it match my black leather jacket?

Or are you asking if I think it is acceptable to hate my country? That is a question I can answer. Yes I think it is ok to hate the country you live in. "If you don't like it get out" has never been an acceptable answer to me. Someone once said, a free country is one where it is safe to be unpopular. I want my country to be a free country which means I have to defend people with unpopular opinions or life styles. So it is ok to hate your country even if I don't.

But if you look at it honestly, very few people hate any country, thier own or someone elses. Hate takes a lot of work. Hating an individual, or a government, or an entertainment industry is easy, but hating an entire nation in more work than most people are willing to give.

[Tequila Zaire]

whatever country you are from, do you think it is cool to hate your country?

Yup...though it usually depends on the political climate and ones own aims and views.

When one side is in power the other complains...the various followers march on accordingly. It's all part of their game for power and influence.

It's just kind of sad that the most vocal are part of the majority in power be it by race or class. It's a bit hard to take that seriously...but so are the vocal minority who preach nothing but doom and gloom about how everything is fucked up and one should start a revolution...

They have that etch-a-sketch mentality where if something is not coming out the way they want it then it has to be shaken and started over.

They have their uses...just like artists who only do work that intentionally provokes not to enlighten but to keep them "important" in the right eyes.

Some are just opportunists in such climates...like the latest Green Day album for example...it's catchy enough to make it on anyones plate but it has enough hint of social commentary to give it the illusion of depth and a title to appeal to the literal and symbolic minded in the world. The only real flaw in this blatent scheme (though only in so much as a defining look) is the fact they seem to have hired whoever dresses Good Charlotte. One can't get too bent out of shape about stuff like that though...it's everywhere no matter if you are into politics, art, or masterbation. Plus some see the same thing as something entirely diffrent. How else can you explain Oasis fans? or people who actually like F. Scott Fitzgerald?

At some point one has to set their priorities in order about what is directly important to them...after all just as many use the ills of the world to ignore their own problems as those who use such things to define it.

What's the use of debating the hate of ones nation all day for example if at the end of the day you end up feeling the same and got nothing done or accomplished? The world is filled with those people and sadly they get the most attention over those who actually DO something.

It's just much more acceptable to play the arm chair general or monday morning quarterback as these days. Justifies the actual not doing anything for too many people...but hey...at least they're entertaining.

[funkatron]

i in no way think hitler was good,he was terrible,BUT he was a good military leader,anyone who doubts that is an idiot.....

Have you read much about Hitler's strategic decisions regarding Russia?

[Tequila Zaire]

the problem with america is that americans tend to think of the world in terms of us and them...theres a big bright world out there folks and if we weren't busy bombing and antagonising it death they'd be busy laughing at us....

That's a good soundbite...it's played a lot. Thing is the rest of the world is not one grand brotherhood of peace and love...and every major nation is currently engaged in some conflict be it covertly (France in Africa, China in N.Korea.) or openly (Russia in Chechnya, U.S. in Iraq, China in Tibet.) It's usually only until the bullets fly that anyone pays attention though...or if large sums of money is involved. Look at the Nazi gold scandle of the late 90's.

You're above statement could be said about any nation. Every nation thinks "Us vs. Them" on nearly every level...nationalism, race, religion, ethnicity, geography, econmoic views, etc. Europe is hardly the model to emulate...it's not even gone so much as a decade without a major conflict of some sort. Asia is jsut as fractured and volitile, South America is always kneww deep in conflicts, and N. America...well it does get it's hands messy doesn't it? Africa...well...it has yet to go a year without a major conflict. So who exactly would laugh since we're all busy with the bombs and blood? What nation has the enlightened view of being "at one with the world" ?

The U.S. is made up of peoples from all over...many kicked out of their home nations due to such conflicts like many where from central america in the 80's for example.

The U.S. is not a perfect place but it better off playing from it's own deck than the marked cards every other nation would offer. But if you do find this grand nation that's managed to sort it's problems with everything and everyone out...do tell us...I'd like to visit.

This may all sound a bit cynical but to critique a nation about problems that plauge all seems highly selective to the point of being dangerous.

About the only place without such issues is Antarctica and if you buy into Global Warming you know it's melting away...but hey...if Global Roulette would give one the opportunity to land in a "perfect" nation I'm all for it...

[Tequila Zaire]

Have you read much about Hitler's strategic decisions regarding Russia?

Seriously...Hitler was an abysmal general with no strategic mind for war AT ALL. He did nearly as much damage to his own armies as the allies. His Russian choices being prime examples...no military historian or expert has ever cited Hitler as a military genius...even those who are skewed toward the axis. Rommel yes, Model yes, even von Rundstedt...but to say Hitler was a great military leader is to know nothing of the man or the war.

[hewhoisagod]

I don't hate the states (except for Texas, but that's for personal reasons). There will always be assholes in whatever country you go to. Quite a few of them are in power too. It's a fact of life. Not everyone likes who's in charge. I can't stand Bush, but I wouldn't want to see him overthrown unless he does something much worse than what's going on in Iraq. But we do have the freedom to feel however we please. If we didn't, we'd be like North Korea.

[Thurbane316]

I caertainly don't think it's "cool" to hate my country, but, by the same token, I do not blindly approve of anything my governemnt does. If the government does something stupid or immoral, I'm the first to decry them.

[Nightmare Pin]

That's a good soundbite...it's played a lot. Thing is the rest of the world is not one grand brotherhood of peace and love...and every major nation is currently engaged in some conflict be it covertly (France in Africa, China in N.Korea.) or openly (Russia in Chechnya, U.S. in Iraq, China in Tibet.) It's usually only until the bullets fly that anyone pays attention though...or if large sums of money is involved. Look at the Nazi gold scandle of the late 90's.

You're above statement could be said about any nation. Every nation thinks "Us vs. Them" on nearly every level...nationalism, race, religion, ethnicity, geography, econmoic views, etc. Europe is hardly the model to emulate...it's not even gone so much as a decade without a major conflict of some sort. Asia is jsut as fractured and volitile, South America is always kneww deep in conflicts, and N. America...well it does get it's hands messy doesn't it? Africa...well...it has yet to go a year without a major conflict. So who exactly would laugh since we're all busy with the bombs and blood? What nation has the enlightened view of being "at one with the world" ?

The U.S. is made up of peoples from all over...many kicked out of their home nations due to such conflicts like many where from central america in the 80's for example.

The U.S. is not a perfect place but it better off playing from it's own deck than the marked cards every other nation would offer. But if you do find this grand nation that's managed to sort it's problems with everything and everyone out...do tell us...I'd like to visit.

This may all sound a bit cynical but to critique a nation about problems that plauge all seems highly selective to the point of being dangerous.

About the only place without such issues is Antarctica and if you buy into Global Warming you know it's melting away...but hey...if Global Roulette would give one the opportunity to land in a "perfect" nation I'm all for it...

oh i agree with you but i do believe the American government's ability to antagonise others and ostracize itself is above and beyond that of other 'civilized nations' in the last 20 years.

Its apparent in the fact that countries which were busy hating each other until recently are now united in their hatred of us (being very generous with language here, replace hatred with disapproval if you want)....

I do believe European nations treat other nations outside of their sphere with more cordiality than America does and i do believe that our Governments Might Is Right attitude is harmful and distinct

[Nightmare Pin]

i in no way think hitler was good,he was terrible,BUT he was a good military leader,anyone who doubts that is an idiot.....

don’t you mean that he was a good public speaker? he was somewhere between poor and mediocre as an army commander and toward the end he was deluded and couldn't remember the positions and strengths of his own units....

In fact I reckon that had Hitler not been so egotistical and had not been so deceived by his own fictional racist views he would have been a pretty fine tactician

or am i just an idiot?....hmmm.....how would i know?

[Tequila Zaire]

I do believe European nations treat other nations outside of their sphere with more cordiality than America does and i do believe that our Governments Might Is Right attitude is harmful and distinct

What Europe did you grow up reading about and witnessing? Russia brutalized and in many ways still does it's sattelite states, France has a long and bloody history in Africa, England has a long bloody rather recent history in everywhere from India to Africa, Germany was fractured and broken after that "little incident" in the 40's. Recently many of these nations are mixed up in U.N. corruption and the oil for food scandel, they've pulled out of many former African colonies leaving them in chaos, and minor European countries most forget about are kneck high in corruption, smuggling, and illegal arms sales.

Maybe It's me liking to read up on the darker side of Europe like I do about other parts of the world but cordiality is not the world I would use...It's more like pleasent smiles with a knife in the hand behind their backs as they wait for an opportunity...on a continent with so many nations friction will erupt again soon. I do despise the mentality people should be "more european"...their is a reason my ancestors left the old world as so many others did and basic history teaches one why.

[killerkat]

yea,sorry people for the hitler remark, i guess i wasn't really thinking in the moment ot something ,who knows,....

did Rommel comand/influence hitler much,i thought he was in africa most of the war?........

[sunkarma]

I don't hate the US...I hate Bush. I loved the UK and would move there in a hot flash. I went to school there and loved it..but my family is here, so I endure 3 more years of the idiot. It's not the country..its the LEADERSHIP that sucks assholes.

[killerkat]

I don't hate the US...I hate Bush. I loved the UK and would move there in a hot flash. I went to school there and loved it..but my family is here, so I endure 3 more years of the idiot. It's not the country..its the LEADERSHIP that sucks assholes.

i'm right with you....sign the petition on my profile if you'd like (it's against bush)......

http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ here it is......

[Tequila Zaire]

yea,sorry people for the hitler remark, i guess i wasn't really thinking in the moment ot something ,who knows,....

did Rommel comand/influence hitler much,i thought he was in africa most of the war?........

Rommel came back to the Western Front after he was forced out of africa due to the fact his forces simply could not be supplied properly. He was a genius even in retreat. Sadly he made very big mistakes in how the Atlantic Wall was to oporate (much of the later development was headed by him) and it was far less effective than it should have been. He also had the fatal luck of being AWAY from the area for his wife's birthday during the D-Day landings and mixed with no one wanting to wake up Hitler to ask for his permission to release key tank division was unable to intigate a key counter-attack. It's debateable how well that would have gone...it's one of the great what if's in military history. But Rommel was not a fan of Hitler and was part of the conspiracy to kill him. Rommel was forced to commit suicide as a result. He was given a lavish nazi funeral though Rommel was never really a nazi, he was part of the old german guard. A german soldier through and through respected by his peers on both sides of the war.

He is still well regarded for his North Africa campeigns and the fact he treated his enemies with amazing respect. Military History has shown North Africa was the last "clean" battlefield where the rules of war were actually followed...the dead where cleaned up after an engagement, civilians were not brutalized (Rommel gave stict orders against this), and by and large a respect of the enemy filled the air. To talk to those who served in north africa one thinks it was a diffrent war. It was was still brutal and vicious fighting...but it did not have the same level of barbarity that European Theater Allied soldiers faced when fighting the SS for example. North Africa was about as close as you can get to an idealized war...the Arika Korps that Rommel lead is also one of the most heavily studied, repsected, and downright legendary of the war. They have many "fans" so to speak to this day.

Gen. Bernard L. Montgomery was also a hero that grew out of this same time period due to the now legendary battle of "El Alamein". While his actions later in the war would diminish his star in the eyes os military leaders (mainly due to the disaster that was Operation Market Garden) he would still go on to an amazingly long and illustrious military career.

But both he and Rommel will forever be remembered for their battles in North Africa and the tone they set by them...too bad it was never followed for the remainder of the war. Far less brutality would have occured under Rommel (he was one of the few high ranking german leaders not tied to war crimes) and the war would ahve ended MUCH sooner since he was well aware the war was lost by 1943.

Rommel is one of those men that if you had to choose who you would fight against his name would be at the top of the list. He was one of the few that wore the responsibility of a general with full understanding of it's nature and expectations. He was not the kind to be corrupted by his position or allow for actions now called "war crimes". He was by all accounts not the most friendly man but was also no tyrant. It's rather difficult to understand him at first...he's like a general plucked from a mythic age and placed in a modern war without any of the problems would would think should rise from it.

A military genius who heavily influenced tank tactics yet sadly a man who was still on the "wrong side" so to speak. Still of all Hitler's Generals he is the most well respected and remembered.

[killerkat]

all that awesome info.

damn,your stuff is awesome,thanks for all that......


i must admit can't claim to know as much as i used to about the wars,wheni was a kid that was like my "thing":wwII....i quess that info.drifted away .....

[Nightmare Pin]

What Europe did you grow up reading about and witnessing? Russia brutalized and in many ways still does it's sattelite states, France has a long and bloody history in Africa, England has a long bloody rather recent history in everywhere from India to Africa, Germany was fractured and broken after that "little incident" in the 40's. Recently many of these nations are mixed up in U.N. corruption and the oil for food scandel, they've pulled out of many former African colonies leaving them in chaos, and minor European countries most forget about are kneck high in corruption, smuggling, and illegal arms sales.

Maybe It's me liking to read up on the darker side of Europe like I do about other parts of the world but cordiality is not the world I would use...It's more like pleasent smiles with a knife in the hand behind their backs as they wait for an opportunity...on a continent with so many nations friction will erupt again soon. I do despise the mentality people should be "more european"...their is a reason my ancestors left the old world as so many others did and basic history teaches one why.

it was clear that i was talking about western and central Europe in the last 20 years. despise it all you like but their diplomatic and foreign affair policies cause less aggravation than ours....

i have spent over ten years living all over eastern and western europe...and yes i have also read about World War 2.

[Tequila Zaire]

it was clear that i was talking about western and central Europe in the last 20 years. despise it all you want but their diplomatic and foreign affair policies cause less aggravation than ours....

Ah see that's the other problem...selective Europe. If something goes bad in one area it's as though it's another continent yet if it goes well it's a united Europe. The U.S. does not have that ability...idiots and saints from all over the vast landscape remain "Americans" no matter what. Unlike IN the U.S. the rest of the world does not quite make the distinction between southerners, northerners, weird californias, etc.

Plus Western and Central Europe have not been all that less aggravating. Their foreign policies lead to the failure of the oil for food program in iraq, the rise of religious extremism IN europe, a fractured post communism economic system, unchecked agression in Africa (in the last 20 years many former Western and Northern European colonies have fallen into chaos due to insane debt still owed to these nations who pulled out without leaving any form of stability), and massive U.N. corruption and failures. Look at how they dealt with Yugoslavia and the Balkans...if that's not foreign policy failure then what is? Only this month two more mass graves have been found.

Look at Switzerland and their abysmal ways of dealing with Nazi Gold in the late 90's, France's recent laws against religious dress, and even in more "minor" nations of the region you have political parties that still organize along ethnic and religious lines. 20 Years of not actively drawing lines in the soil to bleed over is nothing to be proud of if the stage is only being set for another slaughter 20 years down the road...which if history proves correct will be right on schedule.