Keep Your Utopia

[Tequila Zaire]

The other night I was having dinner with some friends and one of them has a girlfriend who is heavily into enviornmentalism. She made the mistake of bringing up the subject with me and ruined my steak by going into how bad cattle raising was for the earth and the animals. The whole graphic imagery bit. She did it on purpose.

Now I don't hit women, or men really, ever. But when you go out of your way to ruin my $40 steak...you better know deep inside I want to kill you, your mother, your father, and your entire family in ways that would make even the most hardline serial killer go "eww dude that's sick". I have few pleasures in this world left to me and my dinners are one of them.

The question came up about how I saw the future of the enviornment and how I wanted to see it. Any know me it's pretty simple...Bladerunner. She thought I meant the sci-fi heavy, monolithic, style architecture and neo-noir sensebilities or as you said "the look" of the film. No. I really really want cities like Bladerunner.

The beauty of those cities is in their decay, lack of nature, and mass of people who shouldn't be able to breathe let alone live in such enviornments. They are about as unhuman as you can get since they go out of their way to kill off the sense of space as opposed to sheer mass making a human feel like an ant. NYC combats this with it's central park and open aired areas (like balconies and rooftops) but in sci fi cities like Bladerunners L.A., The mega cities of Judge Dredd's world, or even SW's Coruscant you have a very H.G. Wells kind of vibe...the rich and powerful near the light and sun....the fucked and damned in the bowls of a sunless metallic hell filled with man made lights, machines, sensory overloads, and a feeling that nothing is ever quite clean or cared for as it should be.

I went into more detail about this and she was thuroughly disgusted by how sick a world that would be. In a way she IS right but from the first moments I saw these images as a kid in comics, imagined them from books, and saw em on screen...I liked it...mainly because of it's heavy flaws and oppressive feel. It was beautiful for all the wrong reasons...

The only cities on this earth close to that Bladerunner look are really only in asia and it was clear that's where the creators of these cities looked for insperation...you see Shanghai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. far more than you see L.A or even NYC in future visions of those places...odd as that is.

The night ended with me looking at my cold unfinished plate of flesh...and she drinking some soy milk heavy gormet coffee. She enjoyed her meal...and her enviornmentalist ways that made her one with the earth as she put it.

I excused myself and left wondering why people like that make it seem like everyone is on the "winning side" but them? They always play the underdog and victim when it was clearerly not the case since the entire dinner party was pretty much in line to her way of thinking.

I took a cab home and just looked at the sprawling city...more dissapointed about it than I have ever been before. Cause realy neither of us had a realistic ideal...just a Utopia that neither could have or wanted to share.

Yet people work toward it day after day...with a handful trying to keep what we have from falling a part all together.

Are any of you happy with the places you live in (in terms of over all style and feel)? would you rather be somwhere else? Do you want to see it transformed? or would you simply want something smaller that you can control like a ranch, house, shack?

[killerkat]

well,since i do live in a very nice "shack" i quess i could go with that.....

i'm just happy i'm rather far away from people,i feel good out here,safe,secluded,yet i know i'f i want to go kamakazi style i can drive an hour an a half downtown(ATL)...and dye in the very real sensory overload of people,ect,ect....

i could(back when) easily deal with those type of massive crowds(still hated them),but now as i have lived out here for a while now,the last or so of that , compleatly alone,i've relized i can't really handle being in those situations anymore,so i immediatly leave,or find some kind of release......

as far as "Utopia", in my late teens i read some utopian lit. and kinda just boiled down(in my thought) to...i 'm not going to waste my time striving(mentally or physcially) for something that is about the same possiblitity of shitting a gold brick.........



,by the way,you should've paid a girl deck that girl,$40 is ALOT, A WHOLE LOT, for any meal.....hell that's like my weeks grocery's,man...

[Evilbink]

Where as a lot of people would like to imagine a beautiful, tolerent and unopressive future for the world. I myself am looking forward to more of a bleak post apocalypse wasteland. Cut the population down to a few million, spread them across the globe and make them all paranoid of each other. Little self sufficent burgs waring with each other over nothing. Much like fudal Japan was. I would declare myself a Baron and cut anyones head off who opposes my reign, gather up a harem of hotties for my perverted pleasures, and subjugate my "people" with an iron fist.

p.s. And kill anyone who encroaches upon my steak dinners.

[Morning Glory]

that seems a little unfair to me. she ruined your steak? come on, who are you kidding. if you can't handle the fact that there's a mutilated animal carcass on your plate, then maybe you shouldn't be eating it. Just because you wish to practice self-deception don't get pissed off at other people for not having illusions about what it is that they are eating. Now granted it's not very nice to ruin someone's meal but it's not like she was wrong about it, so it comes off as kind of shallow for you to be pissed off at someone for telling the (unpleasant) truth.

as far as utuopia goes, I doubt it will ever happen, but I do my part to do my best toward what I feel is right, and that's all that I can do. does me taking the time to sort through my families trash and pick out the recyclables save the enviornment? no. but that doesn't mean that i'm just going to say fuck it and work twice as hard to ensure that the environment is being destroyed. that's just someone that is a quitter and wants to take the east way out and I know there are a lot of people that just don't care about anything. but that's not how I was raised and I wouldn't want to live a life where nothing mattered, I like living a life doing things that make me feel good and make the slightest difference as opposed to making it worse. if your not part of the solution, then you are the problem- sort of thing. and those that don't get it... well what can I say? if you don't understand why giving is a virtue, then there's no way I can explain it. If you have to ask, what do I get out of it? I guess all I can say is Nothing! That's the point!

[OliX]

I like idea of mega cities in Judge Dredd's world. with all other nature untouched. Chaos is what is atracting to me. I see my self living in tokyo in a few years

[One Eyed Cat]

Actually, pigshit is far more toxic than cowshit. I had an environmental politicy Prof. who said it was as bad, if not worse, than the fumes of cars.

OEC

[TheDeathKnight]

Despite the fact that I agree with environmentalists on many issues, I don't want to go back in time. I don't want to live in the woods and farm my own food, etc... Life in ancient times was *not* easy or fun. It was hard work. Go try living in the woods on your own for a month or two, and see how it works. That's why very few hippie communes still exist from the 60's. But at the same time, we are growing as a species, without much control. We pretty much rely on our ingenuity to get us out of any problems we discover ourselves in. We assume that when we run out of oil, we will figure out a way to make vehicles that do not need it. And we assume that when a disease strikes, we will be able to find a cure. I just worry that we are digging ourselves into a hole or two we won't be able to get out of. Ignorance is bliss. It will be interesting to see if we end up back in the wilderness, struggling to survive, or stuck in a megopolis. Or something else entirely.

[Tequila Zaire]

that seems a little unfair to me. she ruined your steak? come on, who are you kidding. if you can't handle the fact that there's a mutilated animal carcass on your plate, then maybe you shouldn't be eating it. Just because you wish to practice self-deception don't get pissed off at other people for not having illusions about what it is that they are eating. Now granted it's not very nice to ruin someone's meal but it's not like she was wrong about it, so it comes off as kind of shallow for you to be pissed off at someone for telling the (unpleasant) truth.

Guess I should have been more clear...it was not the details of how animals are slaughtered that ruined my meal...I've discussed far more disgusting things at the dinner table. It's the critique and force of ones views and snide comments AS I was trying to eat that ruined it. It's like having someone sneeze and put their hands on your food at the dinner table...it simply makes the experience hard to enjoy. I was all up for the discussion but not with "eww how can you eat that" with every bite and cut and little faces. Her actions of course caused the others around to look at what I was eating and before I knew it I had everyone watching me eat. It gets annoying fast and ruins that atmosphere and ritual of the meal. It was rude of her and in bad taste. She was dead wrong in her actions. If you consider those kind of actions acceptable then by all means share a dinner with the bitch...but personally I ruins the meal for me on many levels.

[Morning Glory]

yeah she's obviously stupid and immature, if she is so opposed to it then she shouldn't be giving her money and her presence to a restaraunt that does things that she is against. you have to be an idiot to go to a steak place and then be shocked and appaled that people there are eating meat. I can appreciate the ideals, but it's that kind of shit that causes people to not have any respect and to not be able to take environmentalists seriously.

[darknessfalls]

yeah she's obviously stupid and immature, if she is so opposed to it then she shouldn't be giving her money and her presence to a restaraunt that does things that she is against. you have to be an idiot to go to a steak place and then be shocked and appaled that people there are eating meat. I can appreciate the ideals, but it's that kind of shit that causes people to not have any respect and to not be able to take environmentalists seriously.

Spot on. To each their own BUT if you turn up at a "church", prepare to worship at said altar!

[Morning Glory]

I'll do no such thing! haha

[sunkarma]

Are any of you happy with the places you live in (in terms of over all style and feel)? would you rather be somwhere else? Do you want to see it transformed? or would you simply want something smaller that you can control like a ranch, house, shack?

No. I hate where I am. I am in the friggin sticks. I had rather be in DC again, but then there is the traffic, which pisses me off. I think I'll move to Cali..its going to fall in the ocean soon, but it's beautiful there.(that's my paranoia about the fault lines and stuff...)
The only thing I want to see transformed is myself and my attitude. It's been so bad lately..I've been like "fuck everything"..which is not bad because the people that I've been that way to DESERVE IT.
I think CONTROL is an issue. I want to be able to CONTROL the way my life goes each day, to CONTROL what others think of me and what they say, but that's MY utopia.I am out of 'CONTROL' and I don't have it. So it makes me a sad soul.

[drewblood]

i agree with Morning Glory in that this girl may have had valid points in discussing the environmental footprint of your steak dinner.... an unpleasant truth. i certainly like the angle you took the discussion, but i probably would have felt the need to retort with another unpleasant truth, like she is a fucking bitch and my friend is a cocksmoker for going out with her. of course, i dont have dinner parties so what do i know.

[Morning Glory]

I like you. haha

[devil13]

i agree with Morning Glory in that this girl may have had valid points in discussing the environmental footprint of your steak dinner.... an unpleasant truth. i certainly like the angle you took the discussion, but i probably would have felt the need to retort with another unpleasant truth, like she is a fucking bitch and my friend is a cocksmoker for going out with her. of course, i dont have dinner parties so what do i know.

yea I would have pissed her off by sending the steak back and tell them its not bloody enough.
I love a good rare, bloody, still mooing steak.

[devil13]

No. I hate where I am. I am in the friggin sticks. I had rather be in DC again, but then there is the traffic, which pisses me off. I think I'll move to Cali..its going to fall in the ocean soon, but it's beautiful there.(that's my paranoia about the fault lines and stuff...)
The only thing I want to see transformed is myself and my attitude. It's been so bad lately..I've been like "fuck everything"..which is not bad because the people that I've been that way to DESERVE IT.
I think CONTROL is an issue. I want to be able to CONTROL the way my life goes each day, to CONTROL what others think of me and what they say, but that's MY utopia.I am out of 'CONTROL' and I don't have it. So it makes me a sad soul.

the traffic in Cali. will piss you off too.
I think having a good "fuck you" attitude is a good thing. there are too many stupid fuckin people in this world and most of them need to be told to fuck off now and then.

[tinstar]

Don't forget that Blade Runner was based on a Phillip K. Dick novel. Many sci-fi writers of the late 20th c. were heavily influenced by naturalism and (in some cases, I suspect) socialist ideals. (Other examples include Ray Bradbury, Robert Heinlein, L. Ron Hubbard, J.G. Ballard, etc.) They sought to portray man as evil, and the universe as malevolent by nature, with an unseen, Wizard of Oz-type deity running the whole show. (In the "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep," there is an old guy who had angelic, "messenger of God" qualities.)

The reason the "city of the future" is shown onscreen as rich people on top in the sunlight and normal people below is because that vision underscores the author's political views. It is simply a literary device.

Besides that, it is kind of a reality today. You don't generally see many fast food hash slingers living in Trump Towers. That's because they are fast food workers and their skills just aren't worth that much money.

(On a side note, Judge Dredd barely counts - it is simply a "sweet, awesome, cool looking" bit of eye candy that the studios felt would appeal to teenage boys and "capture the market," which promptly rejected it as crap.)

[tinstar]

I think I may have missed part of TZ's point. But them's the breaks when you only have 5 minutes a day to check e-mail and make correspondences

[Tequila Zaire]

Don't forget that Blade Runner was based on a Phillip K. Dick novel. Many sci-fi writers of the late 20th c. were heavily influenced by naturalism and (in some cases, I suspect) socialist ideals. (Other examples include Ray Bradbury, Robert Heinlein, L. Ron Hubbard, J.G. Ballard, etc.) They sought to portray man as evil, and the universe as malevolent by nature, with an unseen, Wizard of Oz-type deity running the whole show. (In the "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep," there is an old guy who had angelic, "messenger of God" qualities.)

The reason the "city of the future" is shown onscreen as rich people on top in the sunlight and normal people below is because that vision underscores the author's political views. It is simply a literary device.

Besides that, it is kind of a reality today. You don't generally see many fast food hash slingers living in Trump Towers. That's because they are fast food workers and their skills just aren't worth that much money.

(On a side note, Judge Dredd barely counts - it is simply a "sweet, awesome, cool looking" bit of eye candy that the studios felt would appeal to teenage boys and "capture the market," which promptly rejected it as crap.)

All valid and true points...but in this case it's more about the creation as it's own entity. The look and atmosphere of those cities for whatever the reasons is what appeals to me. The social class seperation is prevalent but the rich areas always seem less interesting to me...beautiful to look at but no place I'd want to live. It's how I feel about a lot of wealth heavy areas...they just feel too fake and manicured to the point of being lifeless. It's my main issues with places that try to be "too clean" in terms of their look. Cleanliness is one thing but when a place looks like a museum...something just dies.

You gotta wonder what wealth would look like if the fast food workers took over...what I mean by that is what would they develop as a look and style? You sorta see this with musicians who come from the lowest ranks of society and the next day find themselves with a hit album...they bring some of their original sensebilities with them until they of course are consumed by what wealth should look and feel like. Odd thought I know but...the rich sure are boring these days.

[tinstar]

All valid and true points...but in this case it's more about the creation as it's own entity. The look and atmosphere of those cities for whatever the reasons is what appeals to me. The social class seperation is prevalent but the rich areas always seem less interesting to me...beautiful to look at but no place I'd want to live. It's how I feel about a lot of wealth heavy areas...they just feel too fake and manicured to the point of being lifeless. It's my main issues with places that try to be "too clean" in terms of their look. Cleanliness is one thing but when a place looks like a museum...something just dies.

You gotta wonder what wealth would look like if the fast food workers took over...what I mean by that is what would they develop as a look and style? You sorta see this with musicians who come from the lowest ranks of society and the next day find themselves with a hit album...they bring some of their original sensebilities with them until they of course are consumed by what wealth should look and feel like. Odd thought I know but...the rich sure are boring these days.

There's always Paris Hilton... But then again, I don't really know too many people who think flashing the poon in public and making a sex tape is all that original

I like the thought about musicians who come from nothing, but the frustrating part is that there are usually only a few options...

1) Be poor, sing about it, get rich, sing about it
2) Be poor, sing about it, get rich, keep singing about being poor
3) Be poor, sing about how you want to get rich, get rich, either sing about being rich or sing about being poor

That is why I think certain older bands have more staying power. Their muse doesn't seem to come from a place that has anything to do with their particular station in life, but from somewhere a little more intellectual, somewhat more generalized and universal... Like Bowie... Rich, poor, doesn't matter... The guy rocks.

As far as what they do with the money they make, there are only a few options:

1) Spend it on blow and chicks (or dudes... or both)
2) Spend it on cars and houses so you can get chicks/dudes/both
3) Give a lot of money to charity
4) Actually build something productive and personally meaningful out of it

Very few have the smarts to take option 4... Puff Daddy being one... Henry Rollins being another...

[Nightmare Pin]

1) Be poor, sing about it, get rich, sing about it
2) Be poor, sing about it, get rich, keep singing about being poor
3) Be poor, sing about how you want to get rich, get rich, either sing about being rich or sing about being poor

Cool....you got a whole Eriugena thing goin'.

[Sammael]

There's sort of a cycle that I find sort of metaphysically appropriate.

Creation, Stasis and Decay.
In order for a Utopian society to happen (no matter what the real theory of Communism says) I would speculate that no element of existance should be askew.
After all, if creation went rampant, I would think that we'd get overrun quick enough.
If nothing changed, how would that be enjoyable? When order and absolute law are imposed on a place, that's how you get societies like the movie Gataca.
If the world began to decay, you'd get something like Mad Max. Everything would become anarchy.

Personally, I'd be inclined to think that for us you can see the static and decay in any major city in the world. Just take a walk through downtown. Creation just can't keep up with how fast we burn through the world. Humanity by nature prefers a static existance. Look at how governments developed, and religion, and order. The free thinkers are born of creation and chaos, to a lesser extend I would venture to guess. But again, too much chaos isn't good either.

And no need to talk about Humanity and decay. We start decaying the minute we're born. Talk about a great lot in life. New York, Tokyo, Beijing....the megalopolisis of the world are a few short decades from being like Blade Runner if we keep going the way we are.

Of course...this is just...MY opinion.