Should they execute 'Tookie'? (poll)

[Toe Cutter]

[VoldtaEngler]

thats so fucking photoshopped LOL

but i think all the rallies and what not that arnold wont execute him because he'll be afraid of outlash... but if he does...then he is the terminator *_*

[TheDeathKnight]

[TheDeathKnight]

It's not photoshopped. That's him in the 70's.

I agree that Arnie is in a tough situation.
He will have backlash from one side or the other.
Either from the conservatives, or from the liberals.

I personally think that if someone really is doing good things,
that you might want to let them live. For each kid he gets away
from gangs, that's one kid who won't kill someone. So he may
be saving more lives than he has taken.

But then again, if that was my parents he gunned down,
I would want him dead. But I still might decide it's worth
it to keep him alive, if he's doing something positive.

But a lot of those sick fucks in prison ought to be killed.
And it sets a bad example, that if you help some kids, or
if you find jesus, or do charity work, that it can get you
off the hook for the death penalty.

For those who don't know, he is the founder of The Crips.
And sentanced to death for killing 4 innocent people in a robbery.
Since then he has been working to get kids out of gangs, etc...
The governor has to decide to grant clemency, or execute him.

[malcolm]

oops. I voted yes but meant no...oh well.
yeh, it seems both him and larry hoover in ***-town have been turning their ways around.

[VoldtaEngler]

fuck you serious? those guns are HUGE..i say just let arnie and tookie duke it out....arnie wins he terminates him..tookie wins he gets clemency

[Rockwulf]

The debate's over. He's been denied clemency and is gonna die tomorrow morning.

[TheDeathKnight]

fuck you serious? those guns are HUGE..i say just let arnie and tookie duke it out....arnie wins he terminates him..tookie wins he gets clemency

Hahahaha!

[Tequila Zaire]

Given the evidence against him and the horrific nature of his crimes (they were brutal executions more than anything) added with the fact his "redemption" is questionable due to his odd appeals and changing of his story for the last 25 years...he's more than earned his death. It's pathetic he's been made into a heroic figure...lets just hope people don't riot over the death of this fucker.

[Buster Friendly]

nah, I'm against executing anyone other than politicians, and white collar criminals... let 'em rot in solitary confinement, on CCTV so people can watch him get old, and toothless, and insane...

...or use him to conduct useful scientific research. humanely of course... he's a human being, that's an invaluable resource to our nations ex-nazi scientists...

...I say drag it out, get all we can from our nation's biomass. alot of resources went into feeding, clothing, and entertaining this fellow. it's time to give back.

[ForrestBlack]

I say just let arnie and tookie duke it out....arnie wins he terminates him..tookie wins he gets clemency

That might have been entertaining in the 70's, when they were both strongman thugs.

[One Eyed Cat]

He would have been dead years ago were in not for the ineptitude of California Appellate Courts. Light him up and let his God sort out the details. It is all so very CRIP-tic

OEC

[Buster Friendly]

I say somebody has to volunteer to die with him...

...and not a suicidal person. a rational, sane, healthy advocate of the death penalty, who is willing to prove to me that they are willing to die for their belief that killing convicts has some rational purpose.

because it sure as fuck has never been proven to be a deterant to crime.

(heavily armed citizenry however, time, and again crops up as fear numero uno amongst career criminals. go figger.)

nope if you want 'em, either die for it, or be willing to face him in bare handed gladitorial combat...

ooooh, now there's a thought... throw him in a ring full of average non-steroidal blood ravened tax payers who support the death penalty... one after the other... eventually he'll tire, and society can have it's revenge!!

c'mon he's old... how tough could he be?

g'wan give it a try....

(seriously life imprisonment costs the taxpayers less than the cost of the process of execution.)

[Tequila Zaire]

(seriously life imprisonment costs the taxpayers less than the cost of the process of execution.)

Correction...the cost of the process for humane execution.

It's been proven you can hire a guy to do it for min. wage and the cost of bullets...that you can get on sale at walmart by the way.

[Morning Glory]

I don't know every detail of this case, but from the information i've heard today I can't really say for sure how I feel about it. the guy has done a lot of good things, but he's also had a lot of violent actions commited while in prison. the fact is thate he was sentanced based on no physical evidence that connected him to the crime. the burden of the state is supposed to rest on a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. I think it's pretty obvious that there is a reasonable doubt in this case, and based on that I don't think we can execute someone, in good conscience. No matter how much of an asshole a person may be, we can't make exceptions to the justice system. keeping alive ten murderers is better then executing one innocent person.

[Tequila Zaire]

I don't know every detail of this case, but from the information i've heard today I can't really say for sure how I feel about it. the guy has done a lot of good things, but he's also had a lot of violent actions commited while in prison. the fact is thate he was sentanced based on no physical evidence that connected him to the crime. the burden of the state is supposed to rest on a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. I think it's pretty obvious that there is a reasonable doubt in this case, and based on that I don't think we can execute someone, in good conscience. No matter how much of an asshole a person may be, we can't make exceptions to the justice system. keeping alive ten murderers is better then executing one innocent person.

[Tequila Zaire]

One of the key things he's cited for are his damned books...none of which ever had the effect so many like to bring up. They were self glorification at best and yet another convict penning something to change his image. It reminds me a lot of the "art" serial killers did in the documentary The Collectors...at what point do we simply forget the crimes in favor of actions this peice of shit never should have had a chance to do in the first place...you off 4 people in a brutal manner...you shouldn't be given 26 years to live on from it.

Both sides dropped the ball in this case...the State for not pulling off a dead solid case and the anti- death penalty crowd for making this bastard a hero. The violence involved was brutal even by L.A. standards.

[One Eyed Cat]

Correction...the cost of the process for humane execution.

It's been proven you can hire a guy to do it for min. wage and the cost of bullets...that you can get on sale at walmart by the way.

Ultimately, the current appellate process costs the taxpayer more than either imprisonment or execution. The appeals process should be fasttracked to cover all possible legal and factual (if exculpatory) questions in a matter of a few years. The executions should be carried out in a timely fashion (after the appeals process is exhausted). The death penalty is primarily based on a retributive function of punishment. The supposition is that all persons are responsible moral agents. When a person is found culpable, they must pay an equal debt to their victims and to society (retribution). Deterrence is a utilitarian function of punishment. It has been used as an argument for or against the death penalty. It is ultimately irrelevant to those who believe in true retributivism. This is why the death penalty debate tends to be so asinine. The proponents of retributivism try to justify it with arguments for deterrence. Utilitarians argue against retribution on moral grounds. It reminds me a lot of the abortion "debate".

OEC

[Morning Glory]

The problem with morality is that it insists that everyone follows the same moral code, when they don't, the whole argument goes out the window. Considering that there is no universal moral code ever dictated, and even the sources of the one's that we do have rely on presupposing their own conditions as a necessity of proof.

The subject of equal retribution is quickly thrown out the window too in the face of obvious logic. An eye for an eye works great... but if a man kills a hundred people he cannot be put to death 100 times himself. So it seems the punishment rarely fits the crime. Especially if you consider all factors, it just gets even more ludicrous. The more indirect the factors are the more illogical and unrealistic it is to carry them out.

I think that as a supposed civilized society all we can really rely on are the empirical and utilitarian aspects of judgment. If an action does not contribute to our goal, which should be to maintain a functioning stable society, then it is useless.

[One Eyed Cat]

The problem with morality is that it insists that everyone follows the same moral code, when they don't, the whole argument goes out the window. Considering that there is no universal moral code ever dictated, and even the sources of the one's that we do have rely on presupposing their own conditions as a necessity of proof.

The subject of equal retribution is quickly thrown out the window too in the face of obvious logic. An eye for an eye works great... but if a man kills a hundred people he cannot be put to death 100 times himself. So it seems the punishment rarely fits the crime. Especially if you consider all factors, it just gets even more ludicrous. The more indirect the factors are the more illogical and unrealistic it is to carry them out.

I think that as a supposed civilized society all we can really rely on are the empirical and utilitarian aspects of judgment. If an action does not contribute to our goal, which should be to maintain a functioning stable society, then it is useless.

Retributivism does not imply *equal* retribution in all cases. Having said that, I think it is self-evident from the death penalty "debate" that neither purely moral or purely utilitarian arguments will ever truly suffice. In a sense, even the "morality" imposed will come only from the norms of a given society.

OEC

[Morning Glory]

I agree. my point was that head butting is useless in this case, and there is no clear "right" answer. I guess if you really care all you can do is write a letter to your congressman. I still can't believe you guys voted in a celebrity just because he's a celebrity. ::sigh::
Richard Nixons head in a jar for president 3003!

[One Eyed Cat]

I agree. my point was that head butting is useless in this case, and there is no clear "right" answer. I guess if you really care all you can do is write a letter to your congressman. I still can't believe you guys voted in a celebrity just because he's a celebrity. ::sigh::
Richard Nixons head in a jar for president 3003!

Agree. As to Arnold, he may well be terminated in '06. The immediate future for governance in California is grim (regardless of who is running the show) A fiscal crisis is looming.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

On the one hand, I believe that the rules are the rules and they should apply until someone manages to change the rules. However, I'm not really sure I see the point of keeping a prisoner that is sentenced to death around for 25 years if nothing positive they do counts in their favor. It seems to me that killing off an stong anti-gang activist is kinda shooting yourself in the foot.

[Evilbink]

Richard Nixons head in a jar for president 3003!

10 cool points for the Futurama reference.

I have two words to say when it comes to execution..."Running Man"
Now that's putting the system to work (although they should make it pay-per-view event to recupe some of the housing costs)

[malcolm]

oops. he's dead.
*r.i.h*
would really suck if the devil was a blood for him, wouldnt it? lol

[Buster Friendly]

I'm gonna get me a shot gun, and kill all the whiteys I see....

I'm gonna get me a shot gun, and kill all the whiteys I see...

...when I see whitey, and whitey sees me, then that whitey ain't gonna bother me.....

[malcolm]

[Buster Friendly]

hmmm, malcom it sure would suck for you if when you get to hell the devil turns out to enjoy watching new fish getting their asses *****.

[malcolm]

hmmm, malcom it sure would suck for you if when you get to hell the devil turns out to enjoy watching new fish getting their asses *****.

[Buster Friendly]

up the butt, it's gonna hurt malcom.

[MistressJennifer]

Kill him and OJ

[TheDeathKnight]

I think 90% of the problems and complaints people have about the whole death penalty thing, could be solved with one simple change to the system.

Eliminate the death penalty, but make prison really suck.

The reason people get mad about people getting life in prison for murdering
someone, is because in prison, they get TV, food, workouts, sex, smuggled drugs,
homemade alcohol, socializing, books, art supplies, etc...

They need two kinds of prisons.

Rehabilitation prisons, for people we intend to let back out.
And punishment prisons, for people we never intend to release.

If someone is guilty of something small, and we intend to let them
out, they need to pass some programs before they are released.
No matter how small the crime, we need to release them from
prison with skills to survive when they get out. They should be
forced to get a GED or diploma before they can get out. Or forced
to learn a trade. They basicly need to pass a review board, to decide
if they are ready to go back to society. Which might involve counseling, etc...

But if you are guilty of something really bad, then they need to be locked
in a stale, empty room, for the rest of their life. No contact with other
prisoners. No books or art supplies. No shower parties. No gym. No tv.

If prison was like that, people would not mind eliminating the death penalty.

That way, if someone was found to be innocent, they could be released,
and compensated.

[Morning Glory]

can I vote for you as my governor death knight? you seem to get it entirely, and sum it up in a simple paragraph. why can't people fucking understand that?

[Toe Cutter]

I like your 2 prison idea deathKnight. I'm in favor of the death penalty too, if someone I was close to were killed and the murderer was on death row, I would savor the chance to watch them be executed.

MorningG what did you mean with your 'kill whitey' post? Were you suggesting that "the man" is the reason he was on death row or something?

[malcolm]

hey. back. was watching court tv, they were doing all kinds of stuff related to this case today and after getting more info on it-I do actually agree with how i voted in the first place

[mmmcherry]

hmm i heard about this on the news when they said he was executed.... i kinda think that if he was doing a good job trying to keep kids out of gangs and shit, maybe they should have let him keep doing that.
i also think that maybe we should adopt a prison system like they had in india in the 80s... 200 prisoners in a big room, 50 guys to watch over them and make sure theyre not gettin out of line... (those 50 guys are also prisoners btw, theyve been upgraded to almost like prison guards for good behavior) now that prison is hell. everyone sleeps in the same room squished together, they get one dirtyass blanket and they sleep on the floor... body lice EVERYWHERE that you kill every day and never get rid of, barely edible food, and bathing water full of water worms.
oh and of course, if one of the guys watching over you doesnt like you... youre gonna get beat with a bamboo stick thats split on the ends like a cat-o-nine-tails style whip. only worse.

[Scar]

wow.

[malcolm]

one reporter was aying that tookie was so big from all the years of workign out that the nurse or whatever she is had to ask for assistance in putting the needle in his arm cus it wouldnt go in.

[P I L O T]

thats so fucking photoshopped LOL

but i think all the rallies and what not that arnold wont execute him because he'll be afraid of outlash... but if he does...then he is the terminator *_*

Arnold!! Arnold!! Arnold!!

[Buster Friendly]

Toe Cutter- I'm the one who wants to kill whitey... I always want to kill whitey...

...even so surely with all of the fine, razor keen intellects on this board the racial, and class issues of the death penalty should be pretty obvious.

I more or less agree with The Death Knight (usually, man DK you're a bastard!) I would add that keeping people alive, but in a state of 'information blackout', as in their legal team has access to them, but other than that, no information goes in or out about them.... that way, fuck it, let them write the most beautiful sonnets ever composed by a human mind... no one learns about it till 50 years after their natural death.