Shit that Irks Me

[One Eyed Cat]

People who protest the funerals of soldiers killed in the Middle East. This is not a legitimate exercise in civil disobedience. Are they protesting those who make foreign policy? No. Instead, they cheer the deaths of a generation of (mostly) men and women of limited means. They cheer the deaths of people trying to get citizenship and escape tyranny at home. Do they think this will win support to their cause? I am so disguisted by it all. Knowing people who watched their friends die, it becomes difficult to even listen to them. I was never for a given war, but I'll support the troops over this shit anyday.

OEC

What irks you in this seemingly endless cycle of un-civility?

[Amelia G]

Are people protesting that these soldiers were cut down in their prime or protesting the actual grieving? I suppose I may be holding out too much hope for my fellow man hoping it is the former.

[One Eyed Cat]

Are people protesting that these soldiers were cut down in their prime or protesting the actual grieving? I suppose I may be holding out too much hope for my fellow man hoping it is the former.

Both. They basically say the soldiers deserve it. Some say they are going to "hell". They say this directly to the parents. I thought it was isolated to this area, but it is apparently becoming widespread. Kansas was the latest.

OEC

[grebo]

its as fucked as those evil fucks from GodHatesFags who "protest" at funerals of aids victims

[One Eyed Cat]

its as fucked as those evil fucks from GodHatesFags who "protest" at funerals of aids victims

GHF is on this shit too. It is mostly coming from those hijacking the "left", however.

OEC

[Kidthorazine]

its as fucked as those evil fucks from GodHatesFags who "protest" at funerals of aids victims

GHF has been doing a good deal of the funeral protesting for the soldiers, they where the first group to get media attention for doing it. Now some other groups have started for other reasons.

[Amelia G]

So there is a group of people who hate homosexuals and soldiers, especially dead ones, (or at least claim to in public) and they protest their funerals?

[Kidthorazine]

pretty much, the reason they protestr the soldiers funerals is because the believe america is a "FAG" nation. if you go to thier insanely hillarious website you can read all ab out thier fucked up ideology.

[One Eyed Cat]

So there is a group of people who hate homosexuals and soldiers, especially dead ones, (or at least claim to in public) and they protest their funerals?

It's not just the homophobes. It is also a large contingent of people who consider themselves "leftists".

OEC

[mollycase]

It's not just the homophobes. It is also a large contingent of people who consider themselves "leftists".

OEC

I guess I'm glad I'm not a leftist. Although one has to wonder in situations like that whether the people really think anything that stupid or are aligning themselves with a cause to discredit it.

[One Eyed Cat]

I guess I'm glad I'm not a leftist. Although one has to wonder in situations like that whether the people really think anything that stupid or are aligning themselves with a cause to discredit it.

They really believe it.

OEC

[mollycase]

They really believe it.

OEC

How do you know how sincere total strangers are, especially repugnant total strangers?

[One Eyed Cat]

How do you know how sincere total strangers are, especially repugnant total strangers?

A friend of mine had it happen at the funeral of one of his friends. He definitely didn't question their sincerity (before or after getting into a fight with one). Who are you suggesting may be attempting this level of subversion?

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

A friend of mine had it happen at the funeral of one of his friends. He definitely didn't question their sincerity (before or after getting into a fight with one). Who are you suggesting may be attempting this level of subversion?

OEC

Heh... you edited your post... but I saw you mention the anti-war movement doing a good job of debasing it's self, which I kinda think was the point being illustrated.

[One Eyed Cat]

Heh... you edited your post... but I saw you mention the anti-war movement doing a good job of debasing it's self, which I kinda think was the point being illustrated.

It is. The movement as a whole definitely is.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

It is. The movement as a whole definitely is.

OEC

What makes you think that?

[One Eyed Cat]

What makes you think that?

The US media works on soundbites. If one side is able to frame the debate in terms of this level of indignity, they will win. The antiwar movement should be expanding exponentially given Iraq, but they are not. I look at civil rights and feminism as model movements. They planned their civil disobedience carefully. The current antiwar movement come across as histrionics telling you not to eat at a mexican restaurant next to the recruiter's office. They protest funerals and spit at soldiers. That doesn't fly these days.

OEC

[Kidthorazine]

Yeah the same thing happened during the veitnam protesting too near the end, but they still where a hell of a lot more organized than the anti-war movement currently. Hell i havent heard of any major organized anti-war demonstrations going down in almost a year.

[VoltaireBlue]

this is very sad to read. what the fuck is wrong with people?! my youngest brother is in the army, and served 18 months in afghanistan. shit, i am just grateful that he came home alive, and not fucked up.... and not in a coffin.......

[Lady Alias]

=/ Deja Vu of another war, anyone? They may not have disrespected thier funerals then, but the people did spew hate to the soldiers at their return.
And still people do not learn. How do you confuse the soldiers with our caring lawmakers?
These people are not leftists, they are just stupid.

[Toe Cutter]

Those retard funeral protesters have been up here too. Although, up here some Veteran bikers line up and block them from the view of the mourners. They also passed a law up here banning funeral protests. Anyone who would protest a funeral is a cunt! I can't believe they haven't been attacked...

I've never seen anti-war protesters at the funerals, it's only the bible/GHFs cunts.

[LoraLie]

wow i get worked up just reading about this subject. i remember watching it on cnn & grrr
didnt they come up with something saying they had to protest . . . . so far away fromt he funeral? i'm not sure exactly just something iremember talking about with a teacher of mine

i live really close to an army base so my boyfriend & most of my friends are soldiers. some of them are in Iraq & Afghanistan.
so its something that hits close to home for me.

[TheDeathKnight]

It's interesting, but because we seem to be losing this war, and things seem to be getting worse in the middle east, I almost feel a national sense of hopelessness. When the war first broke out, the people who knew it was a bad idea, protested it strongly. But now that we have pushed forward with it, and it has become a mess, it almost feels like a hopeless cause. Like we are fucked, and the middle east is fucked, and it almost feels like even if we leave now, we will still have a huge worldwide mess to contend with. Starting a war seems to be easy. Living with the long-term results is the hard part. If we could all protest the war tomorrow, and get Bush to pull out, we would still be fucked in the long term, so what's the point?

[TheDeathKnight]

And yes, I totally support our troops.
It's a shitty job, and they have a lot of guts to go over there and try to do it.
It's totally lame and disrespectful to protest at anyone's funeral.

[kshearsedriver]

those GHF fuckers piss me off to no ends.......I am ex-military, I was out before the Iraq war started but the unit I was assigned to at the time just returned from Iraq.........do I think we need to be in Iraq..not neccessarily... but I do believe that any man or woman in service demands our utmost respect dead or alive..they are willing to give their lives so that we can sit here and have this discussion or any other we please and so that those GHF groups and others like them have the right to do the shit they are doing

BTW the biker group is called the Patriot Guard Riders, if my bike was in one piece and running I'd be out there with them, here's a link to their organization

http://patriotguard.org/

[One Eyed Cat]

Those retard funeral protesters have been up here too. Although, up here some Veteran bikers line up and block them from the view of the mourners. They also passed a law up here banning funeral protests. Anyone who would protest a funeral is a cunt! I can't believe they haven't been attacked...

I've never seen anti-war protesters at the funerals, it's only the bible/GHFs cunts.

There were some at a funeral in Michigan. GHF is still the major culprit tho. There has been at least one attack. Eventually, I'm sure someone will be killed.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

It's interesting, but because we seem to be losing this war, and things seem to be getting worse in the middle east, I almost feel a national sense of hopelessness. When the war first broke out, the people who knew it was a bad idea, protested it strongly. But now that we have pushed forward with it, and it has become a mess, it almost feels like a hopeless cause. Like we are fucked, and the middle east is fucked, and it almost feels like even if we leave now, we will still have a huge worldwide mess to contend with. Starting a war seems to be easy. Living with the long-term results is the hard part. If we could all protest the war tomorrow, and get Bush to pull out, we would still be fucked in the long term, so what's the point?

I think we can count on war in the middle east for a long time to come. Pulling out of Iraq is almost moot.

OEC

[morbid_lady]

this really pisses me off. I just came home from work and all day i have watched the families of two fallen soldiers that are coming home tonight. I work at a hotel at CFB 8 Wing Trenton where they bring home Canadian soldiers that have fallen. In the last 3 months i've seen the families of at least 10. Its hard enough for them when a family member is killed, but to have ppl protesting at there funeral and saying the guy deserved it. What fucking assholes

[mollycase]

Do none of you know your Vietnam War history? I did not think I was that much more educated than everyone else here.

It is accepted fact that the establishment put people undercover in many dissident groups for the main purpose of getting the groups to move in really unappealing radical directions. This strengthened Nixon's position and weakened the anti-war movement.

Perhaps the strangely unappealing leftists now have managed to do such a poor job of making their case through purely organic development but history does tend to repeat itself.

[One Eyed Cat]

Do none of you know your Vietnam War history? I did not think I was that much more educated than everyone else here.

It is accepted fact that the establishment put people undercover in many dissident groups for the main purpose of getting the groups to move in really unappealing radical directions. This strengthened Nixon's position and weakened the anti-war movement.

Perhaps the strangely unappealing leftists now have managed to do such a poor job of making their case through purely organic development but history does tend to repeat itself.

I'm in law school and know the history of the Vietnam War. My father was spit at upon his return. I know the "establishment" had rats in the Black Panthers and other groups. Unless you have evidence that this is the case, I am unwilling to make that assumption.

OEC

Out of curiosity, what is your level of education? There are a lot of very intelligent, autodidactic people here. Their opinions are no less valid than yours.

[Mr Karl]

In this world no matter what you do there's always some shithead out there who'll try to bring you down

[TheDeathKnight]

I think we can count on war in the middle east for a long time to come. Pulling out of Iraq is almost moot.

Exactly. That's why it almost seems useless to protest the war now.

We have already been over there blowing the shit out of them
for a couple years now. So regardless of when we leave,
the families of the people who were killed by troops with
nervous trigger fingers, will be lining up to kill Americans
any way they can. We've already pissed off the arab world.
It almost makes you think that once you have taken it this far,
there is no turning back. If you consider 9/11 the start of
the war, I do not think that the war will be over when we
leave Iraq. We may be done with it, but I do not think the
Arab world considers the war with the USA over. In some
ways, us leaving Iraq is more like a lost battle on our part.
Which will only encourage more violence and defiance.

[One Eyed Cat]

Exactly. That's why it almost seems useless to protest the war now.

We have already been over there blowing the shit out of them
for a couple years now. So regardless of when we leave,
the families of the people who were killed by troops with
nervous trigger fingers, will be lining up to kill Americans
any way they can. We've already pissed off the arab world.
It almost makes you think that once you have taken it this far,
there is no turning back. If you consider 9/11 the start of
the war, I do not think that the war will be over when we
leave Iraq. We may be done with it, but I do not think the
Arab world considers the war with the USA over. In some
ways, us leaving Iraq is more like a lost battle on our part.
Which will only encourage more violence and defiance.

It's a sad situation.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

Here's a link to COINTELPRO if anyone is interested.
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

those GHF fuckers piss me off to no ends.......I am ex-military, I was out before the Iraq war started but the unit I was assigned to at the time just returned from Iraq.........do I think we need to be in Iraq..not neccessarily... but I do believe that any man or woman in service demands our utmost respect dead or alive..they are willing to give their lives so that we can sit here and have this discussion or any other we please and so that those GHF groups and others like them have the right to do the shit they are doing

BTW the biker group is called the Patriot Guard Riders, if my bike was in one piece and running I'd be out there with them, here's a link to their organization

http://patriotguard.org/

I would have opposed the Iraq (and Vietnam) War as a matter of policy. I definitely agree that respect should be shown those who serve. Thanks for the link.

OEC

[mollycase]

I'm in law school and know the history of the Vietnam War. My father was spit at upon his return. I know the "establishment" had rats in the Black Panthers and other groups. Unless you have evidence that this is the case, I am unwilling to make that assumption.

OEC

Out of curiosity, what is your level of education? There are a lot of very intelligent, autodidactic people here. Their opinions are no less valid than yours.

One of my favorite things about Blue Blood has always been the high intelligence level. Whether one attained a high level of schooling or not, it seems to me that such recent history is something intelligent and curious people would know something about. That is why I am shocked to see people who seem like they would be as least passingly familiar with Vietnam War history totally failing to apply that information to the present day situation.

[ForrestBlack]

...I know the "establishment" had rats in the Black Panthers and other groups. Unless you have evidence that this is the case, I am unwilling to make that assumption.

If you know something was the case, it kinda strikes me as odd that you would not be open to the possibility that it is the case again now. I have to admit that I have a little trouble getting my head around the logic there. When it was the case in the past, there wasn't exactly a stockpile of evidence laying around in the street. It took years to uncover. But, it seems like all the work it took to uncover that sort of operation was a total waste of time if we don't learn something from it. One of the strongest anti-war voices that has been raised during this current conflict was that of Cindy Sheehan, support her or not, the voice of a mother's rage is a powerful thing. What is the best way to prevent that sort of commitment from being made by other mourning family members of fallen soldiers? Simply make the opposition look like tasteless buffoons during the funeral. We're hardly talking about untravelled ground here. I just think that an objective mind should question people's motivations when a valid political movement is discredited by the buffoonery of certain tasteless 'factions'.

[Morning Glory]

fuck that. you can either support the troops, or be against (the) war. you can't do both. sure the fuckers in DC are the one's making the decisions, but there hasn't been a draft or a conscription, so all the people that are in our armed forces willingly chose to take part in the invasion of a foreign country for the purpose of killing people there. I'm not going to get into the reason why the Iraq war is bullshit, if you can't see them then you are willfully ignorant.

Do I feel bad for the Americans that were killed? Yes. of course I do, but I don't support in anyway shape or form what they are doing, and I don't feel any worse for them than anyone else who dies, who the average joe doesn't give a shit about, including a total fucking hypocritical double standard for Iraqi civilians that were truly innocent and killed by US soldiers.

[Amelia G]

fuck that. you can either support the troops, or be against (the) war. you can't do both. sure the fuckers in DC are the one's making the decisions, but there hasn't been a draft or a conscription, so all the people that are in our armed forces willingly chose to take part in the invasion of a foreign country for the purpose of killing people there. I'm not going to get into the reason why the Iraq war is bullshit, if you can't see them then you are willfully ignorant.

Do I feel bad for the Americans that were killed? Yes. of course I do, but I don't support in anyway shape or form what they are doing, and I don't feel any worse for them than anyone else who dies, who the average joe doesn't give a shit about, including a total fucking hypocritical double standard for Iraqi civilians that were truly innocent and killed by US soldiers.

You wouldn't approve of making a scene at the average Joe's funeral, though, would you?

[Toe Cutter]

fuck that. you can either support the troops, or be against (the) war. you can't do both. sure the fuckers in DC are the one's making the decisions, but there hasn't been a draft or a conscription, so all the people that are in our armed forces willingly chose to take part in the invasion of a foreign country for the purpose of killing people there.

I think your WAY over simplifying the matter. Your wrong. Your suggesting they joined for the sole purpose of killing people. That's fucked up dude. I have friends/family in the military and their motivations for joining wasn't to kill the people of Iraq. What would you suggest they do? Tell me that.