soft vs hard "drugs"

[Morning Glory]

I'm not going to bash on anyone, don't worry. I'm not here to lecture. But really the question that begs for me is, what's the difference?

I think that we all know the "laws" status on this subject is full of crap, and I doubt here that anyone really believes it simply out of a sense of respect for authority.

nonetheless, there's a few reasons from a tax point of view why cigarettes and booze are encouraged and the rest are not, but for the most part public sentiment seems to agree with this notion, even among those that don't give a shit about the law. why is that do you think? Is it merely that they are socially accepted and the way that cocaine and other such drugs were just as socially promonant and are now not because of those aformentioned laws?

to cut to the chase, when I hear people talk about how they want to get drunk I always think why don't you just go snort or smoke or shoot something? If the goal is to get fucked up, then why not? It is probably cheaper and will give you a better time.

In my experience I never made such distinctions.

[Flip]

i havn't touched any hard drugs so i cant really comment on it being cheaper, or giving a better time. on that note i rate cannabis over alcohol, the negative effects are less and the achieved state of mind is better, in my opinion of course. £10 of weed would last me a a day or two, where as a night out drinking will cost me around £60-£90, so i guess in the long run its cheaper.

however, drinking is more of a social activity, yeah you can smoke a few with mates but all that really happens is you chill, dont really say much, and just await the next joint, maybe laugh at a few random things.

in the end i suppose people choose alcohol over other drugs is because its something they can do with mates, which is where the law also plays a part i guess, alcohol being more socially acceptable alot more people do it.

ahh well, thats my mindless mumbling on the subject

[Mirren]

I have to say that I don't care what other people do with their lives unless it personally effects me. As for "soft & hard" drugs, in my opinion, there is no difference. I never got the reasoning behind putting shit into categories.You are escaping your reality for an alternative one. Regardless of how you get there, that's what you are aiming at. People will say :"Well, drinking and smoking are legal." That's really the only definite distinction. I am not even going to touch on the legalities of it. You want hard drugs you take your chances, that's all there is to it.I drank when I was really young and by the time I was 21 and it was legal, I was bored of it. Then I went to drugs and plenty of them. Smoking can taste good with a drink, maybe 2 times a year for me? I feel it the next day though, my veins and blood vessels are all constricted and hurt.... just from a few cigarettes mind you.Getting high is getting high. I snorted and smoked tons of shit but never touched needles... that was my limit. I am just a person who has 2 drinks now, every 3-4 months. I could'nt continue on the path I was on.

[Amelia G]

I've always been baffled by the soft vs. hard distinction too. Partly, I think different people's personal chemistry responds differently to different things. Partly, people tend to class things as soft or hard based partly on legality. Hang out with someone who has just taken similar quantities of Ambien or cocaine and see which one appears to have a bigger impact on them.

I guess delivery method probably has something to do with both how people view a mood-altering chemical and how hard or desirable they think it is. To me, any mode of ingestion which doesn't involve eating or drinking just seems sorta off somehow.

[Pull~My~Hair]

the whole thing to me is fucked up, the fact that we can legally sell and promote alcohol and ciggs. that we all KNOW harm us, yet make marijuana illegal when there has never been a single incident that someones health was endangered, proves that the government isnt looking out for our health and safety they are looking out for their own wallets.

[Kidthorazine]

Hard Drugs are gennerally seen as things that you can OD on and/or are highly addictive (opiates, cocaine, meth, alchohol (yes alchohol is a hard drug regardless of its legal status) Weareas soft drugs are usually things that are non-addictive (physically) and probably wont kill from an overdose as the LD-50 of most of them is very high, So it includes things like Marijuana, LSD, Psilocybin, Salvia. etc.

Of course there are some people who look at the distinction by the mind altering properties, and some people whos distintion just seems completely arbitrary.

[Amelia G]

I've never smoked marajuana, so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion, but it always struck me as silly when people explained that it was not *physically* addictive. If something is habit-forming, does it really matter which part of one's anatomy craves it? That said, I think I'm going to finally go get me a nice iced latte this morning. Been about to go for like two hours.

[Pull~My~Hair]

I've never smoked marajuana, so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion, but it always struck me as silly when people explained that it was not *physically* addictive. If something is habit-forming, does it really matter which part of one's anatomy craves it? That said, I think I'm going to finally go get me a nice iced latte this morning. Been about to go for like two hours.

yeah it doesnt matter in which way its addictive, it's addictive. ANd anyone who says it isnt is full of shit, Im totally addicted, ill admit it to anyone (except maybe the officer at the door) I smoke alot of pot, everyday, every hour or so, infact I am smoking right now...but I still work when im scheduled and still take excellent care of my baby.someday It may get to the point where it gets in the way of something or starts to be too large of a part of my life and I will quit. So yes, it may not be harmful, but it is definatley addictive.

P.s. drool @ iced latte mmmmmm imma go get one when the baby gets up from his nap lol

[Kidthorazine]

I've never smoked marajuana, so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion, but it always struck me as silly when people explained that it was not *physically* addictive. If something is habit-forming, does it really matter which part of one's anatomy craves it? That said, I think I'm going to finally go get me a nice iced latte this morning. Been about to go for like two hours.

It does matter a bit, because if something is physically addictive the you have to worry about that in addition to the psychological addiciton, and the physical addiction can make the psycholigical addiction much much harder to break, and with some drugs (barbituates, alchohol) withdrawal symptoms can actually kill you.
And for the record, i dont consider marijuana to be highly addictive, some ppeople may be addicted to it, but a lot of people arent, of course anything can be addictive. Marijuana is just low on the scale compared to things like meth and heroin.

[Mirren]

I have noticed something about some hardcore pot users that I have known. They get to a point where they almost hate their habit. They no longer even enjoy it, it's just this twisted habit. They can't even read a book, watch a movie or sit still.Going through the motions I suppose.

[Pull~My~Hair]

I have noticed something about some hardcore pot users that I have known. They get to a point where they almost hate their habit. They no longer even enjoy it, it's just this twisted habit. They can't even read a book, watch a movie or sit still.Going through the motions I suppose.

see im kinda the opposite, I have so much to do ALL of the time, it consumes me, and when I smoke I can relax and take time to sit and read with kaden and watch a movie, and not worry about what I SHOULD be doing. Though of course, it is still a crutch I know. Im an extremely anxious person without it.

[TheDeathKnight]

To me, the distinction is the potential for great bodily harm.
If I drink a beer, there is not too much chance I will drop dead from an overdose. Same with Marijuana. To me, that is the only reason to ban a drug. If it is truly "dangerous" for people to use it... That's what I consider to be hard drugs. Drugs that can kill you with one dose.

Then there are two other issues:

Addiction.
Long term effects.

All kinds of substances are addictive. Some people get addicted to coke, some people get addicted to meth, some people get addicted to alcohol, some people get addicted to cigarettes. Some substances are more addictive than others. So if you were to make fair laws and classifications about drugs, I think a scale of addictiveness would be a nice warning label to have. But if cigarettes and alcohol are legal, I see no real difference between them, and a lot of other drugs. They are both very addictive to some people.

Then there are the long term health effects.
But again, that is a matter of personal choice. If someone wants to sniff paint or glue, they will. And it is very unhealthy. If someone wants to drink 20 beers every night, they can. And it is very unhealthy to do so. If someone wants to smoke, they can, and it is very deadly in the long run. So I see no reason to ban any other drugs, just because they have long term health risks. If so, we would need to ban anything that can cause harm to people. Paint, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. That's just stupid. People need to be warned about the health risks, but people need to be free to make their own choices about those things.

[Mirren]

Pull-My-Hair,
I smoked for a long time, and a lot. So, when I quit I was a royal bitch for weeks, lol. I think you have found balance in your life, you have a beautiful child and you go to work and you function, that's important. You also managed to go to bartending classes and get a job right away. You must never forget your strong points!

[Pull~My~Hair]

Pull-My-Hair,
I smoked for a long time, and a lot. So, when I quit I was a royal bitch for weeks, lol. I think you have found balance in your life, you have a beautiful child and you go to work and you function, that's important. You also managed to go to bartending classes and get a job right away. You must never forget your strong points!

Oh man, people fear the day I quit smoking lol. It's whispered of across the land, people lay offerings on my door as to not provoke the catastrophe.

Thank you hunny.

[Mirren]

Oh man, people fear the day I quit smoking lol.
Thank you hunny.

I bet they do. You're welcomed.

[Flip]

I've never smoked marajuana, so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion, but it always struck me as silly when people explained that it was not *physically* addictive. If something is habit-forming, does it really matter which part of one's anatomy craves it? That said, I think I'm going to finally go get me a nice iced latte this morning. Been about to go for like two hours.

id go as far as saying its not addictive at all. this may just be me but i certainly dont crave it or suffer withdrawls. ive seen people have a harder time staying off cigarettes for a month whereas i could go indefinately without cannabis. it strikes me as odd as to why people think its addictive, but i can only speak from my perspective and what i have witnessed. I have a mate who used to smoke to maintain an almost constant high, yet he was capable to just stop for 3month because he felt like it, suffered no cravings etc etc.

I believe the only reason that alcohol and cigarettes are legal is because they are controllable, nearly anyone can grow their own cannabis, whereas making a good beer or growing tabacco i figure to be alot harder (i may wrong).

if cannabis was legal in the UK it would be taxed to hell and cost alot more.

[Pull~My~Hair]

I believe the only reason that alcohol and cigarettes are legal is because they are controllable, nearly anyone can grow their own cannabis, whereas making a good beer or growing tabacco i figure to be alot harder (i may wrong).

if cannabis was legal in the UK it would be taxed to hell and cost alot more.

damn straight! that is exactly right!

[Flip]

damn straight! that is exactly right!

heh just read your other posts, so im glad we agree on one point of this

hell i may not even do enough to get addicted, hell if i know :P

[Pull~My~Hair]

heh just read your other posts, so im glad we agree on one point of this

hell i may not even do enough to get addicted, hell if i know :P

keep smoking, one day you will get there young one LOL

[Flip]

keep smoking, one day you will get there young one LOL

ill be in amsterdam on thurday, i plan to make the most of it

[One Eyed Cat]

I'm not going to bash on anyone, don't worry. I'm not here to lecture. But really the question that begs for me is, what's the difference?

I think that we all know the "laws" status on this subject is full of crap, and I doubt here that anyone really believes it simply out of a sense of respect for authority.

nonetheless, there's a few reasons from a tax point of view why cigarettes and booze are encouraged and the rest are not, but for the most part public sentiment seems to agree with this notion, even among those that don't give a shit about the law. why is that do you think? Is it merely that they are socially accepted and the way that cocaine and other such drugs were just as socially promonant and are now not because of those aformentioned laws?

to cut to the chase, when I hear people talk about how they want to get drunk I always think why don't you just go snort or smoke or shoot something? If the goal is to get fucked up, then why not? It is probably cheaper and will give you a better time.

In my experience I never made such distinctions.

Beyond legality, I don't think there is any distinction to make. I often wonder if the overall suffering of an ongoing life of alcoholism is greater curse (than the lights going out on the Kubla Khan of heroin addiction). Alcohol managed to gain a monopoly on the soma industry. I think the specific effects of alcolohol may play a role (lessening social inhibition while remaining socially acceptable?) You have a "winner".

OEC

[kellie]

I believe the difference between hard and soft drugs is the fatality chance, and the addiction possibility.
Hard drugs being: crack, opiates, cocaine, meth, exstacy etc
Soft drugs being: pot, mushrooms, um...
I guess those are the only 2 soft drugs I can think of. Neither of these things are going to kill you, and its pretty darn hard to get addicted to the point where it will be affecting your life in a serious negative way. I work in an inpatient psych/addiction facility, and NO ONE has ever come in addicted to pot or mushrooms.
The only thing that can kill you during detox is alcohol though.

[Kidthorazine]

actually barbituates can kill you in detox as well, however since they are pretty uncommon nowadays, and there arent a lot of people addicted to them it isnt much of an issue

[kellie]

actually barbituates can kill you in detox as well, however since they are pretty uncommon nowadays, and there arent a lot of people addicted to them it isnt much of an issue

No, Im sorry but your wrong.
Unless you mean an overdose of barbituates that are being used in the detox process. We use them all the time for detoxing people off of alcohol, opiates, and benzos.

[Kidthorazine]

No, Im sorry but your wrong.
Unless you mean an overdose of barbituates that are being used in the detox process. We use them all the time for detoxing people off of alcohol, opiates, and benzos.

barbiturate withdrawal can cause seizures which can in fact be life threatening, which is one of the reasons why they arent as commonly perscribed anymore. I would also question using them for benzodiazipine detox, since you are essentially trading one addictive sedative for another.

[Flip]

frankly i wouldnt argue with someone who works in the field.


just sayin

[Kidthorazine]

and how do you know that i dont? or havent? Actually ive never worked in a rehab but ive been to one and spent a good four years of my life researching psychoactives. And i certainly wouldnt trust a rehab that used a drug as dangerous as barbiturates for anything other than a sedative for rapid detox, which in this case may be true, but its certainly not the standard method for benodiazepine detox (which is to taper of the dose in conjuction with using a longer acting benzo like Klonapin.)

[Flip]

and how do you know that i dont? or havent? Actually ive never worked in a rehab but ive been to one and spent a good four years of my life researching psychoactives. And i certainly wouldnt trust a rehab that used a drug as dangerous as barbiturates for anything other than a sedative for rapid detox, which in this case may be true, but its certainly not the standard method for benodiazepine detox (which is to taper of the dose in conjuction with using a longer acting benzo like Klonapin.)

so what your saying is my assumption was correct, so the defensive behaviour baffles me.

as for the rest of the stuff, i stand by my point, i wouldnt argue with someone that works in the field.

i honestly dont know why so many members like riding the high horse.

[Kidthorazine]

im not riding any high horse, im stating what i know to be correct information. And i dont belive that just because someone works in a particular field that they know everything about that feild, people make mistakes and recieve bad information. Oh and i get defensive when people make baseless assumtptions period, even if they are correct.

[Mr Karl]

as long as your not too impaired to work it's all good

[kellie]

barbiturate withdrawal can cause seizures which can in fact be life threatening, which is one of the reasons why they arent as commonly perscribed anymore. I would also question using them for benzodiazipine detox, since you are essentially trading one addictive sedative for another.

Barbiturates are mostly not prescribed anymore because of the potential for death by overdose, as they can stop your breathing.
Benzo detox also has the potential to cause seizures, in fact I have seen seizures from Benzo detox more than any other. And guess what...not considered deadly either.
If you want to give a crazy figure...lets say 1/100,000,000 people who have gran mal seizures die from it, and yes, one of the side effects of barbiturate w/d is gran mal seizures, then yes someone can die from barbiturate withdrawls. But it is extremely unlikely, and therefore not considered dangerous, or deadly by any means.

[Flip]

im not riding any high horse, im stating what i know to be correct information. And i dont belive that just because someone works in a particular field that they know everything about that feild, people make mistakes and recieve bad information. Oh and i get defensive when people make baseless assumtptions period, even if they are correct.

baseless? i used common sense, if you had worked in the area you would have stated so, or atleast any sensible person would to strengthen their point and authority on the subject. and yeah, people do recieve misinformation and may not know everything about the field, but i would like to think people know their jobs.

[kellie]

and how do you know that i dont? or havent? Actually ive never worked in a rehab but ive been to one and spent a good four years of my life researching psychoactives. And i certainly wouldnt trust a rehab that used a drug as dangerous as barbiturates for anything other than a sedative for rapid detox, which in this case may be true, but its certainly not the standard method for benodiazepine detox (which is to taper of the dose in conjuction with using a longer acting benzo like Klonapin.)

If you want a public debate on the subject, Im game. But know that I am correct, educated on the subject, and very expierenced in the field.

Klonopin is not necessarily a longer acting benzo. All benzos have a half life of around 2-3 days. The "standard" method for benzo detox in every hospital I have visited, worked in, or done school clinicals in was tranxene. Tranxene is the "lightest" benzo of all. ( If there is such a thing)
And yes, it is pretty damn standard to detox yourself rapidly using another addictive chemical.

[Kidthorazine]

yes i did in fact say that other addictive substances are used with rapid detox, usually in conjuction with other substances that speed up the detox.

and as for barbiturate withdrawal

Symptoms of withdrawal syndrome appear 12-20 hours after the last dose; they include anxiety, irritability, elevated heart and respiration rate, muscle pain, nausea, tremors, hallucinations, confusion, and seizures. Death is a possibility if the condition is left untreated.

source: http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz..._syndromes.jsp

And yes tranxene is also used in bezno detox, but when i went in i was treated with klonapin for xanax addiction. But i have never met or seen anyone whos been detoxed for it with barbituates, the only time ive ever heard of barbituates used in detox is for rapid opitae detox when it is used as a sedative in conjuction with narcan.

[Flip]

If you want a public debate on the subject, Im game. But know that I am correct, educated on the subject, and very expierenced in the field.

Klonopin is not necessarily a longer acting benzo. All benzos have a half life of around 2-3 days. The "standard" method for benzo detox in every hospital I have visited, worked in, or done school clinicals in was tranxene. Tranxene is the "lightest" benzo of all. ( If there is such a thing)
And yes, it is pretty damn standard to detox yourself rapidly using another addictive chemical.

and this ladies and gentlemen, is why you do not argue with someone in their paticular field of work.

[kellie]

yes i did in fact say that other addictive substances are used with rapid detox, usually in conjuction with other substances that speed up the detox.
and as for barbiturate withdrawal
source: http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz..._syndromes.jsp

These drugs depress the respiratory and nervous system functions; and, because abusers rapidly build up a tolerance to the effects of the drug, fatal overdose or coma can easily occur. Symptoms of withdrawal syndrome appear 12-20 hours after the last dose; they include anxiety, irritability, elevated heart and respiration rate, muscle pain, nausea, tremors, hallucinations, confusion, and seizures. Death is a possibility if the condition is left untreated.

Now, I think you may be reading this differently than I, because the way I see this particular paragraph is Symptoms of withdrawal syndrome appear 12-20 hours after the last dose; they include anxiety, irritability, elevated heart and respiration rate, muscle pain, nausea, tremors, hallucinations, confusion, and seizures. These are the symptoms of withdrawal. Death is not in that sentence. The mention of death is in a different sentence that is talking about being on the drug, not detoxing from it.

Not everything you read on a webpage is going to be 100% accurate.

[Kidthorazine]

no but in any case barbiturate withdrawal can cause seizures, which i am assuming you are aware of, which can be fatal if someone is unsupervised.

[kellie]

And yes tranxene is also used in bezno detox, but when i went in i was treated with klonapin for xanax addiction. But i have never met or seen anyone whos been detoxed for it with barbituates, the only time ive ever heard of barbituates used in detox is for rapid opitae detox when it is used as a sedative in conjuction with narcan.

Im sure if a doctor wants to substitute tranzene for klonopin for ativan for valium or whatever, its fine. Its all the same.
I have never seen narcan used, I have only read about it. But then again, I have only worked in Ga, and Fl.

Yawn*

[kellie]

no but in any case barbiturate withdrawal can cause seizures, which i am assuming you are aware of, which can be fatal if someone is unsupervised.

Let me copy and paste what I already wrote.


If you want to give a crazy figure...lets say 1/100,000,000 people who have gran mal seizures die from it, and yes, one of the side effects of barbiturate w/d is gran mal seizures, then yes someone can die from barbiturate withdrawls. But it is extremely unlikely, and therefore not considered dangerous, or deadly by any means.

[Kidthorazine]

if they dont use narcan then what do they use for rapid opiate detox, thats probably the most common but i guess they would use another opiate antagonist, i just use narcan as an example because its common.

Let me copy and paste what I already wrote.


If you want to give a crazy figure...lets say 1/100,000,000 people who have gran mal seizures die from it, and yes, one of the side effects of barbiturate w/d is gran mal seizures, then yes someone can die from barbiturate withdrawls. But it is extremely unlikely, and therefore not considered dangerous, or deadly by any means.

People die from inderictly from seizures though, they choke on thier own vomit, fall and break thier necks etc. Its not an issue if they are being detoxed in a supervised enviroment, but if they arent then it is.