John Hughes Ugly in Pink

[The Newswire]

I never trust any woman who lists Sixteen Candles as one of her favorite movies.

The most fundamental flaws with society today can all be traced back to 80s teen movies, specifically the work of John Hughes. I hoped, when I moved to Hollywood, that I would someday get the opportunity to tell him so in person. Ive been here...

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[keiko]

having never actually thought about those movies that way i can now see your point.

though i htink also there is an overall "even though we fit into these horrid little labled boxes, we are also very much like. in fact the only thing really different about us that we dress different. deep down we're al angsty teenagers dying to fit in some where but confused because we're told we're supposed ot be different, individual and unique, as long as we all shop at the same stores, listen to the same music and drive the same car. OW. "

and of course it's toatally unrealistic.... it's a movie.

K

[LoraLie]

Nice article. Really puts a diffrent veiw on it

I hated Pretty In Pink, and most of those movies.

But I did rather like The Breakfast Club, parts of it I loved.
Then again, there are parts I hated.

Mainly because, its a pretty stupid little tale. I dont think that could ever happen in detention

But yet again, it is just a movie.

[Amelia G]

I think a John Hughes creation, or really any widely-distributed movie, can not be excused as being just a movie. It both reflects, impacts, and even implants the values of a society and a time. If an artist does good with their art, nobody tends to say it is just a blank, so I think the artist has to be responsible for what they create, particularly if they choose to share it with the world.

[One Eyed Cat]

I wouldn't credit Hughes with establishing any value system of the 80s. Those were just cliched, silly movies. I wish Daniel "Heathers" Waters had done more with that genre.

OEC

I'm gonna message u on this "success" thing kid. haha :P

[Mr Karl]

Reading that made me laugh

[funkatron]

Stop ruining my teenage nostalgia.

[Pull~My~Hair]

Stop ruining my teenage nostalgia.

[Kidthorazine]

yeah i hated every one of those movies escept for ferris buellers day off, i think you where kind of off with the ferrari thing, because the kid goes into this whole spiel about how his dad loves the car more than his family and crap, but yeah.

[Amelia G]

yeah i hated every one of those movies escept for ferris buellers day off, i think you where kind of off with the ferrari thing, because the kid goes into this whole spiel about how his dad loves the car more than his family and crap, but yeah.

If someone who wants my love tries to destroy something I care about, I cut them the fuck off. It doesn't matter whether the item in question is an important human relationship or a replaceable material object; it is the principle of the thing. A car is trivial, but someone who loves you should want you to have everything which will make you happy, even if it is a small thing. I like my car, but I don't freak out when it gets dinged, but, if someone who supposedly wanted my affections begrudged me having the car, I would cut them out of my life.

When the kid goes off on his big speech about how his dad loves that car more than he loves him, it just shows that, on some level, he at least unconsciously was letting his friend talk him into destructive activities because he wanted to destroy something his father loved. Maybe his father didn't love him, but he didn't love his father either.

[Kidthorazine]

I see what your saying, i guess i just see it differntly, not to mention that the car wasnt destroyed intentionally in the first place. Actually i remmeber the character (cameron i think his name was) was quite distraught after the car got destroyed.

[Toe Cutter]

I'm with you 100%. Hughes is a vulture. A maggot. A parasite who prayed on the inmaturity, insecurities and impressionability of youth. Forcing his flat characters on the american landscape like a personal jihad of his own self-absorbed shallowness.

I feel shamed to know he is from the mid-west. In fact, I'd rather sit in a sauna heated by steaming dog sick than endure the witless films that guy produces...

p.s. Nice editorial Amelia, I was smiling through your entire article. Your synopsis of those movies was spot on. Funny stuff.

[bohoki]

call me a weirdo but i loved "licence to drive" it was a great 80s teen movie

[Morning Glory]

yeah, pretty in pink taught us that if you are an unattractive dude, no matter how much of an original and fun/creative person you might be and how hard you work to get a girl, even if she's not really that attractive either and has a low social standing, she'll blow you off for the rich pretty boy that gave her a momentary affection, even though he didn't really care and only wanted her to prove to everyone that he can get whatever he wants.

no, I don't blame huges for that, I think it's art imitating life, not the other way around. Hughes just took the cutthroat robber baron competition that examplfiied politics and business in the 80's (and the 90's, 2000's...) and showed that it applies just as much to interpersonal relationships and trickles down the social ladder.

[Buster Friendly]

Amelia-you have a very unique, and sometimes strange way of looking at things...

...i always prefered movies like "Class of 1984", and "Surf Nazis Must Diet". i never saw a john huges movie until i was well out of my teens.

[Mr Karl]

class of 1984...now there'se an eighties movie...not that lame shit written by well,whoever

[Amelia G]

yeah, pretty in pink taught us that if you are an unattractive dude, no matter how much of an original and fun/creative person you might be and how hard you work to get a girl, even if she's not really that attractive either and has a low social standing, she'll blow you off for the rich pretty boy that gave her a momentary affection, even though he didn't really care and only wanted her to prove to everyone that he can get whatever he wants.

no, I don't blame huges for that, I think it's art imitating life, not the other way around. Hughes just took the cutthroat robber baron competition that examplfiied politics and business in the 80's (and the 90's, 2000's...) and showed that it applies just as much to interpersonal relationships and trickles down the social ladder.

An awful lot of people saw those movies. Hughes himself, being at the level of society that he was, may have been influenced by those things, but Americans tend to be influenced by pop culture far more than by politics. The day a political party runs Harrison Ford for president is the day a career politician loses.

[Morning Glory]

The day a political party runs Harrison Ford for president is the day a career politician loses.

Will you settle for Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Seriously though, the fact that so many people identifiy with hughe's movies with a sense of fondness, shows the level of transparency that those issues are ingrained into society. Hughes may be guilty of perpetuating it, but those ideas, conscious or not, still had thier roots in contemporary society and were around long before they were thought up by hughes. not to say that he can't be held responsiblty for passing on those negative qualities, but I think that it's a little unrealistic to expect anything otherwise from someone that's indoctrinated in our culture. The only difference is the level of influence a person has and how far reaching thier ability to spread it.

I'm gonna go in a slightly different direction here and sort of turn that question around, what is it that people see in those movies? Think about how many things that we are forced to take for granted and presume when it comes to movies. Ok, so this doesn't seem like such a matter of force being that we can pick and choose what movies we want to see ( and pay attention here because this is the mindset that permates our entire sociological identities, this so called "freedom") and of course it doesn't feel that way, because that's the way that everything is. But think about it if someone had no idea how our culture worked, they had no knowledge of these unspoken assumptions, they wouldn't be able to make sense of any of the things that they saw, and they'd miss the whole point, which is something trivial to us anyway.

Let's take the breakfast club for example. The oh so obvious point of that movie is we're all alienated in highschool. First of all it's assuming that everyone knows what highschool is and has to go through it. since we accept this one it's really easy to go from there to accepting the notion that everyone is going to hate highschool and have it hard and be alienated. Since we don't question the first one, that is, whethere or not highschool really is a rational social condition or even neccesary at all, then we can't question the second one. We just accept that it is that way, and if in fact it is not, then we have to accept the negativies of spending all our time doing something dumb and pointless which may very well be the real cause of our boredom and alienation and disfunction, but we'll never know.

these things are invisible to us, but to someone that hasn't accpeted this assumption, that's the first thing that they'd question. if this highschool thing is something that they don't want to be a part of, why do they keep coming back?

Think about cop movies. everyone presumes that the insituion of policing is something that is obvious and should be and doesn't need to focus on questioning it. how many movies show it as being something otherwise? there are a few that will point out all the problems here, it will examine the roots of crime and not just take it for granted that black men are crooks and blue uniforms are for our protection... but these movies are never portrayed in the same serious way, because it has to make light of this, this isn't something that we take for granted, so the whole premise has to be told and we can't ever move away from that fact and focus on the humanity of it. we can't have a lighthearted comedy set in a world where the police are implimented as the militant form of control set to beat down those who oppose the domination of the power structure, it would be too hard to think about these things and sit down and shut up and enjoy the movie and eat some popcorn, because it would call into question everything.

Think about war movies, about romance... the list is endless. the function of these movies isn't to brainwash people into accepting an idealogical mindset, they allready have been, it's just a way of reflecting it.

[Amelia G]

I think Schwarzenegger could have done it, if they'd run him circa Total Recall. I would have voted for him then. He waited too long, did too many unattractive things in the interim, and became too much of a politician for it to work for him now, though. There is a whole generation of voters who never saw him in anything good but who may have heard about how he sued a widow while she was grieving because her contractor husband died while working on his house.

A really wonderful HBO production you might be interested in is The Wire. It is exactly about the types of questions you are bringing up re: the nature of policing and crime and such. I recommend watching the DVDs in order and not trying to catch it on television. Not that you seem like you'd be into HBO in general anyway. But this is a brave and interesting series which really examines, in a serious but entertaining way, why things are the way they are in terms of inner city crime and policing of that crime.

On the issue of people remembering John Hughes movies with fondness, I feel like I've certainly had it drummed into my head that I am supposed to relate to the shallow twats in his flicks and feel fondly about them. All the press releases were about the warmth and nostalgia of his movies, long before they were past tense. I think that whole fondness for his nonsense thing is just what some quality PR people told the world to think. I think you are right that general social assumptions lead people to their interpretations, but the notion that one should feel such fondness for such shallow and materialistic characters is, in my opinion, mostly the product of ingenious PR. But that sort of thing is like the Emperor's New Clothes. If someone, like yours truly, points out that the emperor is naked, the whole thing can collapse.

[One Eyed Cat]

I can't wait til next year. Daniel Waters will make this conversation moot with Sex and Death 101. The actual story of that generation will come out eventually.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

I think Schwarzenegger could have done it, if they'd run him circa Total Recall. I would have voted for him then. He waited too long, did too many unattractive things in the interim, and became too much of a politician for it to work for him now, though. There is a whole generation of voters who never saw him in anything good but who may have heard about how he sued a widow while she was grieving because her contractor husband died while working on his house.

A really wonderful HBO production you might be interested in is The Wire. It is exactly about the types of questions you are bringing up re: the nature of policing and crime and such. I recommend watching the DVDs in order and not trying to catch it on television. Not that you seem like you'd be into HBO in general anyway. But this is a brave and interesting series which really examines, in a serious but entertaining way, why things are the way they are in terms of inner city crime and policing of that crime.

On the issue of people remembering John Hughes movies with fondness, I feel like I've certainly had it drummed into my head that I am supposed to relate to the shallow twats in his flicks and feel fondly about them. All the press releases were about the warmth and nostalgia of his movies, long before they were past tense. I think that whole fondness for his nonsense thing is just what some quality PR people told the world to think. I think you are right that general social assumptions lead people to their interpretations, but the notion that one should feel such fondness for such shallow and materialistic characters is, in my opinion, mostly the product of ingenious PR. But that sort of thing is like the Emperor's New Clothes. If someone, like yours truly, points out that the emperor is naked, the whole thing can collapse.

Pseudo-Nostalgia tends to run in 20 year cycles. I remember people pining for the "authenticity" of the 60s throughout the 80s. You had a bunch of 70s compilations and "where are they now?" throughout the 80s. In a few years, the 80s quasi-pop culture will die a similar death. Unfortunately, 90s nostalgia and the current pop culture are even more degenerate than anything Hughes could have dreamt up.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

Pseudo-Nostalgia tends to run in 20 year cycles. I remember people pining for the "authenticity" of the 60s throughout the 80s. You had a bunch of 70s compilations and "where are they now?" throughout the 80s. In a few years, the 80s quasi-pop culture will die a similar death. Unfortunately, 90s nostalgia and the current pop culture are even more degenerate than anything Hughes could have dreamt up.

OEC

70s Nostalgia in the 90s rather. If Americans are as influenced by pop culture as is being suggested, we are fucked. It essentially implies that we need a paternal/maternal figure to set us straight.

OEC

[Buster Friendly]

"That 90's Show" *vomit*

i'd like to watch a cheerful sit-com set amid the WTO protest/riot.

...it was a totally inapproprite response, but i used to beat the snot out of people who reminded me of john hughes characters... middle class social climbers... feh.

[Toe Cutter]

Did you ever beat anybody up who was like the Donger?

[Buster Friendly]

ha!

i actually had to google that one Toe Cutter, i've never seen sixteen candles...

...nope, i just beat up on stupid rich white kids.

[mr_d]

I never stopped to think about these movies in this light. Good points.

I think Ferris' friend destroying his dad's car was just your typical teenage rebellion. He's feeling neglected and in order to get any kind of attention from his dad he has to be destructive. Ferris just pushed him into doing something instead of just quietly being ignored.

While I enjoyed The Breakfast Club, I think it's premise is totally hokey. That group of misfits wouldn't open up to each other that quickly. It's been another lifetime for me since high school but I doubt I'd just become best friends with someone I spent a couple hours of detention with.

[Pull~My~Hair]

Did you ever beat anybody up who was like the Donger?

lol no way..the donger was awesome

[Toe Cutter]

Yeah, the Donger rules!

[Mr Karl]

never heard of the donger

[Mr Karl]

The day a political party runs Harrison Ford for president is the day a career politician loses.

ain't that a fact

[Morning Glory]

A really wonderful HBO production you might be interested in is The Wire. It is exactly about the types of questions you are bringing up re: the nature of policing and crime and such. I recommend watching the DVDs in order and not trying to catch it on television. Not that you seem like you'd be into HBO in general anyway.

I actually do like HBO, although they've sort of become a victim of thier own sucess. in the beggning they had these really groundbreaking shows, because they just put them out their and the creators did what they wanted to without having to worry about ratings and censors and selling ad space and all the other crap that makes TV crap... but then they just started flooding thier own market and producing crap and the crap had to compete with the other crap,( and the petty monetary disputes, boo hoo the sopranos are only making a million dollars an episode, how can they work under these inhumane conditions?) and it became the same old stale network TV, but with the F word.

but yeah I watched the first season of the wire expecting it to be like OZ but dealing with "regular" society, and it just came off as another typical gritty cop drama to me, so I lost intrest. maybe i'll give it another chance on dvd.

[funkatron]

I liked all of those movies. I don't disagree with all of your observations, but I would like to add my own couple o' points:

1) Hughes' teen films were about the only place in popular film that I can recall (admittedly, I could be way off) where arty/nerdy kids were top shelf characters.

2) As I remember them, generally the sides-taking was the theme early in his films, but in the end the conclusion was "some of those rich/popular people are cool and they're all just as confused as the rest of you, so maybe if we all quit being fucking haters things wouldn't be quite so bad." Is it typically done in a ludicrous, hamfisted, way? Yep. But I disagree with your conclusion, and I think there's plenty of evidence to the contrary:

- In PiP, Ringwald liked the rich guy who wasn't a fucking asshole, and that guy is presented in a positive way. Spader's rich guy, tho, is a giant dick. Being rich isn't the issue; being a dick is.

- In PiP, Ducky's insistence on hating Ringwald's crush is understandable, but not presented in a positive light. Clearly being a hater is the problem here, and the fact that Ducky is one of the weird kids doesn't change this.

- In Ferris Bueller, being rich and having shit is *clearly* not the problem -- Ferris himself has rich parents, and enjoys the fruits of this (look at all the expensive shit he has in his room). Ferris *is* a dick to his friends at times, but acknowledges that he's gone way too far when the car is destroyed, and is willing to sacrifice himself to save Cameron from the wrath of his father. But the car itself is not the problem -- they all love the car! Cameron himself says that his dad is a dick because he loves the car more than he loves his wife and son. His dad's priorities are totally fucked up, and that's the issue, not the fact that he owns a nice car.

3) Emilio Eztevez was good in every other role? Did you see "Men at Work?" Perhaps it was the material.

4) "Does anyone actually identify solidly as Prom Queen, Jock, Stoner, Geek, or Psycho, with a capital letter, in high school?" When I was a kid? Not entirely, but I certainly related to many of them (Psycho, Geek, Stoner [minus the drugs], if you're curious). Add 15 years of perspective and it gets a little sillier, but I don't think the use of archetypical characters is inherently a mistake in this medium (see below)

5) Ally Sheedy's makeover? Yeah, made me a little uncomfortable, even then. It was like one of those makeover shows on daytime television (trust me).

6) Much of your criticism seems to be based on whether or not the situation was realistic: fairly simplistic characters, short periods of time, etc. I don't think that's inherently a problem, though. I don't think the point was to make it overly realistic, but to create a situation that could be related to and to make a point. Whether or not the point is a valid one is another issue.

7) I still laugh at the Donger. Not really because I think asians are funny and I should laugh at them, but because I enjoyed the juxtaposition of cultures and how he attempts to adapt. It might be racist; I am not sure.

I will say that I think judging someone's trustworthiness based on whether or not they find Sixteen Candles to be a fav is a mistake. It isn't a personal fav of mine, but Breakfast Club certainly was when I was a kid, and I'd probably keep it on my top 25 for nostalgia's sake -- it gave me a lot to relate to when school for me was absolute hell at 13. Am I trustworthy?

[Satiate]

My response, will be this... though I agree with you fully Amelia, I love those movies because it's a good laugh to me... But then again, you know me... I have the most twisted sense of humour and tend to find EVERYTHING funny...

But because I want you all to know, with the whole Arnold/Harrison, etc. comments on this thread... It made me think of one of my favorite writers, poets, musicians, leaders... Gil Scott-Heron and his wonderful creation of "B Movie" And to really bring it home...

Here are those lyrics... (as long as they are... I highly recommend to overlook the "dated" references and see how aptly they apply to this... )

Well, the first thing I want to say is…”Mandate my ass!”

Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered voters form a mandate – or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have been running.

But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan…meant it. Acted like an actor…Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We're all actors in this I suppose.

What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune…the consumer has got to dance. That's the way it is. We used to be a producer – very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling your resources we'll control your world. This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don't know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don't know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain't nothing but the name of an airport now.

The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it's only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie.

Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous “B” movie. The producer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will be Casper “The Defensive” Weinberger – no more animated choice is available. The director will be Attila the Haig, running around frantically declaring himself in control and in charge. The ultimate realization of the inmates taking over at the asylum. The screenplay will be adapted from the book called “Voodoo Economics” by George “Papa Doc” Bush. Music by the “Village People” the very military "Macho Man."

“Company!!!”
“Macho, macho man!”
“ Two-three-four.”
“ He likes to be – well, you get the point.”
“Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left…right, left, right, left, right…!”

A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés abound like kangaroos – courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, “itchy trigger finger” and “tall in the saddle” and “riding off or on into the sunset.” Clichés like, “Get off of my planet by sundown!” More so than clichés like, “he died with his boots on.” Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And Bonzo's substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece – a miracle – a cotton-candy politician…Presto! Macho!

“Macho, macho man!”

Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate with the accent being on the nukes - cause all of a sudden we have fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley “God-damn” Do-Right?

“You go give them liberals hell Ronnie.” That was the mandate. To the new “Captain Bly” on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat – as the head of the Studio Actor's Guild. When other celluloid saviors were cringing in terror from McCarthy – Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from “Bonzo” to Birch idol…born again. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights…it's all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom gone wild. God damn it…first one wants freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom.

Nostalgia, that's what we want…the good ol' days…when we gave'em hell. When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with it. To a time when movies were in black and white – and so was everything else. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before six-gun Ron shot off his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the free press went down before full-court press. And were reluctant to review the menu because they knew the only thing available was – Crow.

Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug Henning does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula 16 and Crazy Glue. Transportation furnished by the David Rockefeller of Remote Control Company. Their slogan is, “Why wait for 1984? You can panic now...and avoid the rush.”

So much for the good news…

As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here's a look at the closing numbers – racism's up, human rights are down, peace is shaky, war items are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are down, money is scarce – and common sense is at an all-time low on heavy trading. Movies were looking better than ever and now no one is looking because, we're starring in a “B” movie. And we would rather had John Wayne…we would rather had John Wayne.

"You don't need to be in no hurry.
You ain't never really got to worry.
And you don't need to check on how you feel.
Just keep repeating that none of this is real.
And if you're sensing, that something's wrong,
Well just remember, that it won't be too long
Before the director cuts the scene…yea."

“This ain't really your life,
Ain't really your life,
Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie.”
“This ain't really your life,
Ain't really your life,
Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie.”

[Buster Friendly]

Gil Scott Heron is a spoken word god!!! rollins can tuck tail, and piss off.

i had to read that in the GSH voice outloud dude, thanx!!!

[Toe Cutter]

My response, will be this...

A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés abound like kangaroos – courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, “itchy trigger finger” and “tall in the saddle” and “riding off or on into the sunset.” Clichés like, “Get off of my planet by sundown!” More so than clichés like, “he died with his boots on.” Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And Bonzo's substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece – a miracle – a cotton-candy politician…Presto! Macho!

Nicely said.

Totally, just like "Were going to smoke 'em out, an hunt 'em down"... I wonder who scriped that for him. It's a little John Wayne, but I see a bit of Patrick Swayze in 'Road House' in there.

[Satiate]

Gil Scott-Heron is one of my biggest influences in lyrical style... He hits honestly without having to resort to flinging curses or cussing... His simple use of truth whether in whisper or in mid-rant can render the biggest hot air balloon speechless... I still think if Bill Mayer was smart, he'd bring on Gil as a guest, even if it was just to do a satellite feed from jail...

[Buster Friendly]

Gil's in jail?

i heard he's been having a rough spot... been watching some of his vid's on youtube... daaaaamn. "Johannesburg" is the shizznizzle.

Have you ever heard Kool Keith's "Black Elvis in Space"? not a single profanity uttered in the entire album... and it's sicker than any of his raunchy stuff. amazing album.

[Satiate]

Gil's in jail?

i heard he's been having a rough spot... been watching some of his vid's on youtube... daaaaamn. "Johannesburg" is the shizznizzle.

Have you ever heard Kool Keith's "Black Elvis in Space"? not a single profanity uttered in the entire album... and it's sicker than any of his raunchy stuff. amazing album.

Last I heard, last year or year before last, he was busted on possession, skipped bail to hang out with Alicia Keys, and they are making him serve a 2 to 6 year term. Buuuuuuuuuuut, it isn't like he's popular and this information is easy to come by. He may be out now on good behaviour, but well, I don't know.

Yeah, love Kool Keith, and yes, that album is amazing.

[LoraLie]

Reading this got me to thinking of another craptastic teen movie with similar ideas. (well, that i see)

She's All That

[Wickedanima]

This thread makes me so sad!