Other languages spoken in public.

[Mirren]

Do you get offended or irritated if you hear people of other nationalities speaking their languages in public amongst themselves? Personally, I don't care. I can speak Spanish but never in public or to my family, it's just something I learned growing up hearing and in classes.

[the_darkness_calls]

i just got back from quebec where people spoke french all the time. it was actually kinda weird when i got back and heard people speaking english all around me . *shrugs* i know enough french to get by, tho. it doesn't bother or irritate me when people speak other languages around me here.

[sheramil]

ghobe', 'ach SaH'Iv?

well, if these people stare at you, mutter something in tlhingan and then laugh nastily, you have to wonder just a little.

[keiko]

I'm not allowed to let it bother me. the job I have now is essentially listening to people talk to their relatives back home in their own languages. My boss is Serbian and so are a few of the other employees (I'm one of two that's from the states) so alot of the things said at work go over my head (not just because I'm the shortest one there). Evwentually though I'll pick up on most of the key phrases and they won't be able to talk about me any more at least that's what I keep joking with them.

The otherday there was an Irish lady speaking ot her mother in Gaelic, which was awesome.

K

[Bondage Clown]

I am totally offended by it, but I will only say something ot that person if i know that they have been in that particular country for ateast 5 years.

If I am going ot live in a a diffrent country, I should learn the language.. I don't mind be multi-cultural.. But Jessus Fucking Christ, just once i would like to call a business and not get asked if I speak my own god foresaken language.

I don't give a rats ass what ship they came off of or what fucking things they had to go through to get out of their country... If you can't read the god-damn drivers manual in that countries native language, then don't try to fucking drive.

People like that piss me off, and waste my god-damn time.

In the city i live in there are atleast 45 grocery type stores... from the big chains, to a small mom and pop store... and a lot of them are specific for a culture.. FINE, I can accept that.. But Please OH please, if the country you are living in is supporting your illegal immigrant ass, and you can't speak the language, do ont get pissed off at me, when you are taking an hour at the grocery store..

I am gonna stop here, because I am getting pissed just thinking about this subject.

thanks Mirren, Great subject... Love when i can rant, and get things out there.

[mmmcherry]

If you can't read the god-damn drivers manual in that countries native language, then don't try to fucking drive.

that is the scariest part man... really scary shit. where i live theres ALOT of east indian people living here, and i couldnt care one way or another most of the time, whatever they do, but they HAVE to live by the rules of this country... i remember hearing someone at a party talking about how he pulled over an indian woman for driving like a nutbar (he was a cop) and she gave him her husbands drivers licence... he gave it back and asked for HERS... she said something to the effect of "no family licence, family licence..." if that isnt terrifying, i dunno what is.

[GnArKiLL]

I dont undertand, why get irritated or bothered? Just because someone is speaking another language around you? Thats whats wrong with people. Maybe if someone came up to you and started speaking another language then i can understand, kinda like what bondage clown said. I speak spanish with my family, rarely in public and only when needed. Hell if i knew people got offended with it i would probrably do it alot more, just to piss everyone the fuck off, i would find it funny. I live in san antonio texas, its mexican-o-rama down here, hell im mexican. I will say that there are times im somewhere with friends or whatever and someone will be talking about us or saying something about us in spanish, not knowing i understand every fucking thing they are saying, and then tell them off, oh how i love doing that

[Morning Glory]

It really pisses me off when I see people using sign language. You should learn how to speak english, or get the fuck out! these colors don't run!

[keiko]

BC ~ thank you for taking the rant fire from me. If you want to be considered an American then you must assimilate enough to understand hte TV, the Radio, The Newspapers, the laws and even *gasp* know enough of the native language to get a *shock* paying job that doesnt involve being a field hand.

When I lived in SoCal, aside from the bilboards that I couldn't read, what got on my nerves more than being asked if I want homemade toquitos from hte stolen Target shopping cart was the fact that you had to be BiLingual to get a job anywhere and that all dealerships advertised that they had someone on staff that could speak Mexican. If you don't know enough English to say "I want that car, how much?" you sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to drive one!

I'm fine with you and your friends/family speaking in your native tounge but that damned ghetto slang gets the fuck on my nerves. When some one gets pissed at me for not knowing what the fuck they said when I speak English and live in an English speaking country then I should be allowed to bitchslap you.

When I travel I plan to know at least six phrases in the native tongue
"Do you speak English?"
"Excuse me"
"Please"
"Thank you"
"Where are the facilities?"
"Call the doctor/police"

Before I move I will have at least a rudimentary grasp of both German and French... maybe Italian. And, if I keep this job tlll then, prolly Russian too.

K

[GnArKiLL]

I wonder if the native americans had this problem......

[Morning Glory]

If you want to be considered an American then you must assimilate

and what if you just want to feed your family and don't give a shit about being an "American"?

I don't mean to pick on you, keiko, but the subject of the "american melting pot" is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately. don't you find it to be even the least bit racist? why is it that white anglo culture is defined as the standard for what should be followed? western expansion of this country was significantly attributed to the immigration of Chinese that worked on the railroads and other industry. So why is it crazy to suggest that people should adhere to Chinese culture? No one would think of that as "Being American" but their contributions to this country are just as significant as any others. To name but one example. I'm not even going to talk about Africans' role in our country, that goes without saying. Take a look at the history of the United States Capitol.

To take a quotation from a book on the subject: "I've always been amazed that so many people continue to think of the notion of the melting pot as a good thing. Unless all parties act under conditions of equivalent power, and unless the melting is Purely voluntary at every step of the process by everyone concerned, it is by definition genocidal: whoever gets melted --assimiliated--loses separate cultural identity. That's genocide."

[Nudemuse]

I find it fairly astounding how upset people get about a language that is not the official language of this country. America has no official language, or to this point a national language.

But, it is the American way. Assimilate or be destroyed.

[Bondage Clown]

why is it that white anglo culture is defined as the standard for what should be followed?

Ok.. keiko, if i may answer for you...

Every country has to define themselves somehow, and every culture has to evolve in order to survive. BUT that doesn't mean that we have to lose the prodominent "business" "Educational" "Media" "Written" "Spoken" Language of this nation..

"white anglo culture" is the standard, becasue the (and i am about to get my ass kicked here, but Fuck it) races that are constantly bitching about being white, and having to speak "english, can't get over themselves or the past. This is not the 1700's, 1800's, or even the wonderful fucking 1900's.. This is the 2000's and people need to (not forget abouit the past, because we can learn from their mistakes) BUT FUCKING GET OVER SHIT...

Wow.. went down a completely diffrent raod that time.. That is life

[keiko]

Okay maybe the point I was trying to make didn't come out the way I intended. See, you get the people that have lived in the states for more than 5 years that complain about about the general majority of English speaking people getting frustrated with the fact that thease people haven't attempted to become a part of the society they wish to be treated as full members of. I fully understand taking pride in your heritage and trying to keep the traditions of your people sacred etc etc adnauseum, I'm twice as guilty. But when I move to another country, visit, expat, whatever, leagally or not, after a certain period it becomes necessay to at least in public, say when ordering food at a resturaunt, speak the local language. in Canada they speak both French and English and all signs and lables are printed in both.

And (speaking of getting my ass kicked here) As much as this country belonged to the Native people (be they mexican, american indian, aztecs whatever) the Conquerors (evil maybe) were White Anglo Saxon English speaking people. The laws of this setteld land were written in English. The Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Immigration Codes were written in English. Ostracize me if you wish, but I'm sick of being made to feel guilty/inferior being a White, English speaking citizen of a country founded by White, English speaking people. If the Americas were setteled by the French or the Italians or the Russians I would expect that the common language of the people living here would be French, Italian or Russian and would expect the people who came after to at least understand the French or Russian or Italian, just as I now expect them to understand English. If the common tongue of America was Pig Latin or Gibberish I'd expect poeple asking to be considered citizens to understand that.

If you were to go to a book club meeting having read "All Quiet on the Western Front " and the book that week was "Lord of the Flies" would you be more frustrated that people didn't read the same book you did or do you think they would have a right to be frustrated by you? It's all well and good to discuss the book you read at another time, before or after to official meeting takes place, but the discussion at hand is "Lord of the Flies". End of Story (no pun intended).

*kisses* BC

Mirren- Most sign language is in English.

K

[Mortalus]

Just bothers me when people are speaking English, then switch all of a sudden just to say something incredibly rude/hurtful about someone that's closeby in another language they assume they won't understand.

Happened to me a lot in school/when I was *very* overweight.. it sucks. :\

[mmmcherry]

ugh lame... extremely lame.
my best friend for 8 years was fijian... her mom used to talk REALLY really fast, and she would switch between fijian and english without even thinking about it... it was really hard to follow their conversation haha...

[Morning Glory]

bah. even by colonialization standards english people are in the minority. shit, most white americans aren't even of english decent. So I just can't see any rational arguement that can be made for it in what's supposed to be a democratic society. It seems to be a matter of "I was taught english in school, and I don't want to learn anything else, so everyone else should have to as well."

to interupt for a moment on an intresting tangent here: since we are now making english the official language, we are going to have to get rid of the office of president, which is a non-english word. Hey, I think you finally sold me on the idea!

BC: sounds to me like the past is not in the past, it's just the same thing that's still going on.

and to keiko: you should not have to feel guilty or inferior for being a white english speaking person, you have every right in the world to embrace that and celebrate it.... But, here's the kicker, you shouldn't expect anyone who's not a white english speaking person to do the same.

Bottom line is that it's not fair for anyone to have to give up thier culture, like I said before. Unfortunetly, to be able to do that, people that are billingual and can communicate and relate between different cultures are going to be in demand above those that cannot.

[Morning Glory]

Semantics aside, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to get to the REAL bottom line, such as it is for better or worse.

Circa five million years ago, before that beloved constitution was written in ye newe English, people evolved the unalienable right to free speech by way of a mouth, a tongue, and a vocal resonance from air forced out through the lungs. Later on they developed a way to talk to other people, and now you will not shut them up.

Whether it is because of cutthroat capitalism that causes people to act singularly out of self interest, or the knowledge that there is one piece of land stretching from the north to the south of America and imaginary lines are just that, people are going to do whatever the hell that they want to. And the only way to stop them is to stop them. all talk of public discourse (in a language that they don't understand) isn't going to do much good.

Hate to say it, here's my own ass kicked moment. When you are outnumbered by the one's that are trying to stop you, there's a tactic that, ironically, was taught by those same anglos: make love not war. Then wait a while down the road until you are no longer outnumbered.

[sheramil]

I am totally offended by it, but I will only say something ot that person if i know that they have been in that particular country for ateast 5 years.

If I am going ot live in a a diffrent country, I should learn the language..

dude, i know Greeks who have been in Australia for like THREE GENERATIONS and they still refuse to learn English.

they also refuse to let their daughters go to parties, even though they're in their mid to late twenties. *shurg*

[sheramil]

and what if you just want to feed your family and don't give a shit about being an "American"?

okay, i had a reply for this but it was too racist, even for me.

[sheramil]

"white anglo culture" is the standard...

because how many white Anglos do you see desperately trying to emigrate INTO places like Iran, South Africa or Bangladesh?

or, if those cultures are so fantastic (*mutter*clitoridectomy*mutter*), why leave? surely the lure of Advertising isn't THAT strong.

[sheramil]

And (speaking of getting my ass kicked here) As much as this country belonged to the Native people...

the country belongs to the people with the best weapons.

anyone who says otherwise gets shot.

okay, there HAS to be a way cool SF novel in this - aliens arrive on Earth with better technology than us, and decide "Okay, it's our planet now. Off to the reservation with the indigenes."

[Morning Glory]

[QUOTE=sheramil]because how many white Anglos do you see desperately trying to emigrate INTO places like Iran, South Africa or Bangladesh?
QUOTE]

define emigrate? I can't tell if you're being serious or not, by the fact that all of those places were occupied by England.

[GnArKiLL]

okay, i had a reply for this but it was too racist, even for me.

say it, i really wanna know what you had to say.

[Amelia G]

that is the scariest part man... really scary shit. where i live theres ALOT of east indian people living here, and i couldnt care one way or another most of the time, whatever they do, but they HAVE to live by the rules of this country... i remember hearing someone at a party talking about how he pulled over an indian woman for driving like a nutbar (he was a cop) and she gave him her husbands drivers licence... he gave it back and asked for HERS... she said something to the effect of "no family licence, family licence..." if that isnt terrifying, i dunno what is.

I think English is one of the languages there, isn't it? Is that a different part of India?

[Amelia G]

I think that, if someone just wants American resources and they don't care about America, then I'm not really in favor of them being here for anything other than perhaps a two week vacation.

If someone wants to pledge allegience to the flag, then I think we let them in, let them in legitimately and properly and allow them to truly become American with everything that entails. I believe passionately in what it says on the Statue of Liberty.

If someone at the grocery store wants to speak their native tongue to their mother while discussing how to tell whether a cantelope is fresh, why in the world would anyone care??? If that same person thinks they should be able to speak something other than English to the cashier, then I have a problem with that.

Then again, if I'm buying eels or something at a Little Tokyo market, I don't get too perturbed if I have to use hand signals and facial expressions to explain what I want.

[Amelia G]

It really pisses me off when I see people using sign language. You should learn how to speak english, or get the fuck out! these colors don't run!

Good topic, Mirren, but this here is the best post in this thread.

[sheramil]

define emigrate? I can't tell if you're being serious or not, by the fact that all of those places were occupied by England.

i'll put it this way: you will find thousands of people sailing in tiny boats to get out of East Timor and into Australia. the only people going the other way are rich yacht owners who are lost.

i really wish i still had my copy of P.J O'Rourke's treatise on world economics, "Eat The Rich". he tried to work out why some places suck and others rock. it's not about resources - Hong Kong has none, but it's booming. Zimbabwe has resources, and its native Prime Minister seems bent on exterminating the population.

[Amelia G]

BC ~ thank you for taking the rant fire from me. If you want to be considered an American then you must assimilate enough to understand hte TV, the Radio, The Newspapers, the laws and even *gasp* know enough of the native language to get a *shock* paying job that doesnt involve being a field hand.

When I lived in SoCal, aside from the bilboards that I couldn't read, what got on my nerves more than being asked if I want homemade toquitos from hte stolen Target shopping cart was the fact that you had to be BiLingual to get a job anywhere and that all dealerships advertised that they had someone on staff that could speak Mexican. If you don't know enough English to say "I want that car, how much?" you sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to drive one!

I'm fine with you and your friends/family speaking in your native tounge but that damned ghetto slang gets the fuck on my nerves. When some one gets pissed at me for not knowing what the fuck they said when I speak English and live in an English speaking country then I should be allowed to bitchslap you.

When I travel I plan to know at least six phrases in the native tongue
"Do you speak English?"
"Excuse me"
"Please"
"Thank you"
"Where are the facilities?"
"Call the doctor/police"

Before I move I will have at least a rudimentary grasp of both German and French... maybe Italian. And, if I keep this job tlll then, prolly Russian too.

K

My first few months in Cali were in OC and there was this lady with a cart full of tamales so good my mouth is watering for them now. I never used to like them before being convinced to try hers for a buck. Then I all had to chase down her grandson to translate that I wanted more and how often did she come by. That was some fine home-delivered cookin'. For a while, our little collective bought a lot of her home cooked delights, but eventually the personality-du-jour chick in our midst started claiming that she was getting sick, probably from bad mexican hygiene and we really shouldn't order any more. It was just a control thing for her. That charming grandson was not translating for a careless cook.

Here is an example of my Spanish: Tell her they were very good last time and thanks for making them so delicious and today I would like to get the 5 for $4 deal with all green ones please. Thanks!

Here is an example of my German: Svei Kolsch bitte. Yes, I know my accent is not so good, but your English is indubitably great. I'd love to discuss it with you over these two beers I just bought.

Here is an example of my Swedish:
Me: Isn't Danish the same thing as Swedish almost?

Friend: Yes, but the accents sound weird and they'll think you are hot with your American look, so just ask for both of us.

Me: Hey, hot rocker guy, can you direct me and the blonde girl over there to where they have the pastry place and the bar?

Hot rocker guy who really does sound like the Swedish chef but looks like Michael Monroe's offspring: [touches my hair murmuring something hopefully complimentary in Swedish] I show you both with. Come with now.

[Kidthorazine]

It doesnt bother me if people speak thier own language to other people that speak thier language in public, most people are much mroe effective in communicating in thier native language and all that. But in America if you plan on living here you do need to learn english, since thats the standard that the government and buisnesses run on. If you refuse to learn english then you really shouldnt be in this country, im pretty liberal when it comes to immigration laws and all that but honestly some of those people really need to get to the program at least to a degree.