Heroin & other highly addictive substances

[Sara X]

I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this...

I've never done heroin, nor have I done cocaine, or any of the other multitude of drugs that I am around on a daily (well, nightly) basis in my line of work. I have seen the people who choose to do them, I've seen the before/after, I've seen people disappear or die as a direct result of their habit.

Now, knowing that I can be around these types of drugs all the time without doing them, I feel no sympathy for people who start. I don't believe that anyone "doesn't have a choice", short of being held down and forcefully dosed every time. As difficult as it may be, anyone who truly wants to quit can quit... there are resources available. I don't think there are many people who can honestly say they didn't know that the drug they were trying was going to be so addictive- perhaps nothing can prepare you for the feeling, but just about everyone is taught as early as grade school that doing drugs is bad.

I would go as far as to say (and I have, and have been attacked for it) that anyone who willingly does/continues to do a highly-addictive & harmful substance, especially if they discuss it in an offhand manner or in an online journal, deserves to die... when they began, by not quitting, by being openly proud of it, they are signing their own death warrant. I don't feel sympathy for them, no matter how well I know them or how close we may have been before they started doing drugs. Even addicts have a choice- EVERYONE has a choice.

What do you guys think?

[GnArKiLL]

Finally, someone gets it. I completly agree.

Also it says alot about you that your constantly around things like that and have the will power and common sense to not do such things.

Fucking up your own life i dont have a problem with, good riddence, but most of the time it does greatly affect others, thats just not acceptable.

[Janiac02]

Hmm. Reading this I pretty much agreed with everything you said, but as I've never actually been there, I'm not going to say I think they deserve to die, though I can't believe most of them are too ignorant to know better.
A huge pet peeve of mine is people whose best stories involve some sort of high, or being sooooo drunk that they couldn't remember how they got home, or they woke up in a puddle of their own vomit. That same group of people (at least the group of people I know) who can't handle a legal intoxicant properly will use multiple kinds of illegal/highly addictive drugs at once, and not expect anything bad to happen. No one has died yet, but I'm pretty sure that isn't anything more than dumb luck. They think this has earned them bragging rights.

[seeker]

I also do not understand people doing drugs that most people know or should know are not assisting in their lives, & I know a few people who have died because of their drug usage. I have been exposed to most drugs and have only smoked a little pot.

Drug use although a personal choice has to be the worst or nealy the worst choice any one can make.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

I've had friends around me take drugs on a regular basis and after the first time of me telling them that I don't want any, they tended to not bother trying to force it on me.
People that have hung around in the same groups as me have died, which has I think shocked a few of the group into cleaning themsleves up. I know Pot/Dope/Skunk or whatever you want to call it isn't meant to be addictive in itself, but I do feel the effects can be addictive. My neighbour says he can't calm down without a spliff, and he has even asked me to loan him money so he could buy some. He is unemployed and is in my opinion unlikely to get a job.

I also have a friend that regularly does Skunk and even though he continually says he's going to give up, he always ends up going back to it.

I remember a few years ago at a club with some friends, I had been dancing for most of the night and someone asked my friends what I was on. My friends answered "Alcohol!" to which the person asking gave a look of shock and slunk off, so yes, I drink Alcohol, but I don't drink to excess (at most 3 Pints/Bottles of Brown Ale per Night) and I have been known to only drink 1 or 2, I also drink soft drinks inbetween pints. I only go out about once a fortnight, unless there is a special occasion like Whitby, in which I will have my usual amount each night, but odds are, I won't have much during the next month.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

I have to admit, after gettng drunk when I was younger (whilst with my workmates on nights out) I've learnt what my limit is (at the most 4 pints) and I don't like the feeling of loosing control of my fuctions (legs, speech, etc) so don't go over my limit anymore. I'm trying to teach this lesson to an acquaintence at our club (he goes LARPing all weekend, drinks nothing but lager all weekend, comes home and blacks out, and he doesn't see the connection). He has had scans done, as they think he may be slightly epileptic.

[Xochitl]

Please do not forget that it does not matter what one does, only that people are addicted to many things. Many things that are legal, religion, sex, food, etc.

In fact so many people are addicted to food that it is the lead cause of death among americans right now. Yes drugs are bad, so is drinking to excess or doing anything to excess but we fail to realize that what the main problem is, is how we deal with our problems. We don't we turn to whatever we can find and don't figure out a new way to get through life. Until we do that as a society we will always have junkies of all sorts running around.

[Morning Glory]

First of all you say that you've never done them, so you really don't have any idea what it's like or what the people are going through that do them. so what gives you the right to talk about how easy it is for a person to stop doing them?

you also say that anyone can quit. maybe. That's a rather blanket statement, because it really depends on the person. A lot of people do want to quit and realize the harm that it does, but people are complicated, they can feel more than one emotion, and maybe the part that wants to keep doing the drugs, coupled with the physical effects of addiction is stronger than thier will power. Maybe they want to quit, but they can't do it on there own. Practically everyone I know that has ever smoked cigarettes says that they want to quit, but they don't or can't or are otherwise unable to bring themselves to do so. That suggests to me that it's not such an easy matter as simply making a choice. You say that there are resources out there, but you aren't one of them. You say that they should die. How is that going to help anything?

Maybe if you've never done any drug then I can understand how you might feel that way, but I have a feeling that you aren't straight-edge for life. If you have ever felt the need to put a chemical substance into your body to change the way that you feel, then you understand why people do drugs.

I've seen a lot of people fuck up there life with drugs, and I've seen people that were able to overcome it and become some of the best people that I've known. Don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting drugs. I am 100% against drug use, but why don't you feel sympathy towards people that are in a more fucked up place than you are? What does that say about you as a person? yeah, maybe they made a stupid choice, but does that mean they shoudl have thier whole life ruined and the lives of people that love them that have nothing to do with it but not wanting to see them suffer?

[Janiac02]

Please do not forget that it does not matter what one does, only that people are addicted to many things. Many things that are legal, religion, sex, food, etc.

In fact so many people are addicted to food that it is the lead cause of death among americans right now. Yes drugs are bad, so is drinking to excess or doing anything to excess but we fail to realize that what the main problem is, is how we deal with our problems. We don't we turn to whatever we can find and don't figure out a new way to get through life. Until we do that as a society we will always have junkies of all sorts running around.

That is true, but you have to start someplace. Yes, the best place is at the root of the problem, but it's a lot more *taboo* to tell an obese person to stop eating their sorrows than it is to tell an alcoholic to stop drowning theirs, or a drug addict to stop putting drugs into whatever orifice of their body they can get them into. Figuratively speaking, since you can't really tell anyone what to do.

[Sara X]

First of all you say that you've never done them, so you really don't have any idea what it's like or what the people are going through that do them. so what gives you the right to talk about how easy it is for a person to stop doing them?

you also say that anyone can quit. maybe. That's a rather blanket statement, because it really depends on the person. A lot of people do want to quit and realize the harm that it does, but people are complicated, they can feel more than one emotion, and maybe the part that wants to keep doing the drugs, coupled with the physical effects of addiction is stronger than thier will power. Maybe they want to quit, but they can't do it on there own. Practically everyone I know that has ever smoked cigarettes says that they want to quit, but they don't or can't or are otherwise unable to bring themselves to do so. That suggests to me that it's not such an easy matter as simply making a choice. You say that there are resources out there, but you aren't one of them. You say that they should die. How is that going to help anything?

Maybe if you've never done any drug then I can understand how you might feel that way, but I have a feeling that you aren't straight-edge for life. If you have ever felt the need to put a chemical substance into your body to change the way that you feel, then you understand why people do drugs.

I've seen a lot of people fuck up there life with drugs, and I've seen people that were able to overcome it and become some of the best people that I've known. Don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting drugs. I am 100% against drug use, but why don't you feel sympathy towards people that are in a more fucked up place than you are? What does that say about you as a person? yeah, maybe they made a stupid choice, but does that mean they shoudl have thier whole life ruined and the lives of people that love them that have nothing to do with it but not wanting to see them suffer?

why would i want anything to do with someone who doesn't want to quit, or says they do but don't do anything about it? i've seen it with everything from cigarettes to alcohol to pot to coke and crack to heroin. what does caring for someone who doesn't want to help themselves do for me? i can't make someone want to stop hurting themselves. i don't believe in doing anything that does not directly benefit myself... the virtue of selfishness.

i personally had a physical dependency on cigarettes (which i smoked for 3 and a half years, sometimes a pack a day and sometimes three packs) which i quit cold turkey & over a year later, still feel withdrawl from. i had a physical dependency to a prescription drug i was getting illegally, which i had no idea was addicting, i also quit cold turkey, and it in turn put me in the hospital. so, i understand a bit about addiction, quitting, withdrawls & the like. sure, there were people who wanted to help me but at the end of it all, when i truly wanted to quit, it came down to me, myself and i. no, it wasn't easy and yes i was sick and yes it sucked. i couldn't imagine ever wanting to try something that i KNEW would be addictive & especially not something that would possibly take over my life.

i agree with xochitl & i do not believe in any form of escapsim, i don't have sympathy for people who willingly get themselves into anything harmful, knowing the consequences. don't even get me started on the overeating thing- i'm pretty sure no one wakes up one day and says, "oh my, i'm 400 pounds and i have diabetes & heart disease! when did this happen?"

[Morning Glory]

If you don't care about anyone else, why should we care about what you have to say?

[Sara X]

If you don't care about anyone else, why should we care about what you have to say?

that was most certainly an asinine way to twist what i said... i believe that i started this topic asking other's people's opinions on the topic

[Janiac02]

that was most certainly an asinine way to twist what i said... i believe that i started this topic asking other's people's opinions on the topic

[QUOTE=Sara X] i don't believe in doing anything that does not directly benefit myself... the virtue of selfishness.
QUOTE]

I'm gonna guess it was this statement that sounded like you don't care about anyone but yourself, whether you meant it that way or not. Considering the original responding post was lengthy and pretty well thought out, calling something an asanine twist to what you said isn't really fair if you can't see it from another's point of view. I interpreted that particular statement the same way.

[Janiac02]

i agree with xochitl & i do not believe in any form of escapsim, i don't have sympathy for people who willingly get themselves into anything harmful, knowing the consequences. don't even get me started on the overeating thing- i'm pretty sure no one wakes up one day and says, "oh my, i'm 400 pounds and i have diabetes & heart disease! when did this happen?"

I'm gonna go out on a limb and blame a good chunk of parents for obesity. They feed their kids McDonald's every day because they don't feel like shopping/cooking, put no limit on the sweets they eat, and then by the time they are 8 or 9 they are disgustingly obese. When that's the only way you know how to eat, your body tells you you are hungry all the time. That isn't easy to overcome. Now me, I learned to be an emotional eater, but I take full responsibility for being a fatass. That's a different situation entirely.

[evilstonermonkey]

despite the name, i have never taken drugs in my life. that is a choice i made, and ive stuck with it. but i know a lot of people who do do drugs, some only occasionally and others heavily. my point of view that its your decision what you put in your body, and its none of my business as long as it doesnt effect me.

[Mr Karl]

I've done lots of stuff...when it was time to quit I did, simple. You are quite right sara, everyone has a choice, when people go out of control it's because they simply don't want to choose.

[antiseptic fashion]

I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this...

I've never done heroin, nor have I done cocaine, or any of the other multitude of drugs that I am around on a daily (well, nightly) basis in my line of work. I have seen the people who choose to do them, I've seen the before/after, I've seen people disappear or die as a direct result of their habit............

Perhaps someone should do a little more reading on the psychology behind drug addiction I watched my Mother inject heroin until her skin began to rot away, she eventually died from multiple infections.
I guess she deserved it?

Some people develop drug problems, for whatever reason, under whatever circumstances, some people don't. Some people are able to stop and lead normal lives with or without help, others aren't. Posting a thread about how unsympathetic you are, and how countless strangers, with what some states consider a disability, deserve to die, only makes me think you don't have a very clear understanding of what you're talking about.

[Emerge-n-cage-n-cy]

I would go as far as to say (and I have, and have been attacked for it) that anyone who willingly does/continues to do a highly-addictive & harmful substance, especially if they discuss it in an offhand manner or in an online journal, deserves to die... when they began, by not quitting, by being openly proud of it, they are signing their own death warrant. I don't feel sympathy for them, no matter how well I know them or how close we may have been before they started doing drugs. Even addicts have a choice- EVERYONE has a choice.

What do you guys think?

Looks like you are preaching to the choir here. I am guessing that you recently were put into a position where it was socially expected that you express sympathy for someone who wasn't doing too well. That is the real shame. The custom of sympathy has become, more often than not, just a tool for manipulation and deceit, to get something they want from you.

We live in an individualistic world and if someone collapses inward, there are few mechanisms to reintegrate them with others. I can't imagine jail or rehab to be very pleasant. Where once there might have been some genuine emotional sympathy or concern, now there is only institutionalized help.

It seems that the only way to be concerned for someone without stripping away their choice (by introducing intense negative stimuli) would be to set an example and inform. In other words, the only way to help people from destroying themselves with these substances (whether its heroin or McD's) is to use them responsibly yourself -- thereby creating an open community of users who can set the standards for abuse, without incarceration.

Nixon's scheduling of narcotics was put in place to institutionalize those who spoke out against the Vietnam war. It is no coincidence that students these days are sheep. I don't want to politicize your personal situation, but I merely want to point out that the government sponsers the destruction of people's lives. A duty of every free thinking individual should be to experiment with mind-altering substances, to do so responsibly, by joining and sponsering communities who therein question the political standards. The more powerful the drug, the greater the vigil, and the more intense would a community have to be in order to use responsibly, to have created and endured an elder knowledge through which one might pass through the gates of hell - to literally destroy oneself unscathed.

But start small. Don't watch too much crap on television.

[StolenName]

Whilst reading this, I'm just going to light up a joint.

And done.

I've got friends from a large variety of different circles and from what I can tell, drug use and abuse is situational and a result of a variety of varying factors.

Many of my friends are into party drugs, using them as cure for boredom between working full-time 60 hours a week and the only way to stay awake and have fun. Alternatively, I've got friends taking them just to get through rough patches in their life, to cheer them up or cause they like to dance.

Some have stopped because they got bored, some got sick, some stopped because their heart did and now lie forever below dirt (or soar the winds as particles of ash).

I've friends who constantly use meth and speed. A few of these friends began because the hours that were expected of them, the people they had to support and house rental forced them ot work 7 days a week. Some do it because they enjoy the rough sex that comes as a second and others because they just love the shit (weekend only). A few stopped, a few died and a few still use regularly.

I smoke weed. When, not often. I smoke cigarettes. When, particularly awesome nights out. I drink. When, often.

On many occassions I've stopped taking one or the other for the hell of it, lack of funds or illness.

I ramble. What I should of just said is I don't care what people use. When they use it or why they use. You know what, it might be difficult. It might not. From my experience, I can coax a friend into not using or express my opinion when I feel they're in a particulalry bad state themselves or may be looking to hurt someone. I'll put in the best effort I can if I think they need help but in the end its up to them.

Should I care if they don't? If they want help, I'll help them. But if they don't care in the end, don't try and help themselves, seek it or accept it. I'm not going to care about them. I'll be friends with them until they're not around if it comes to that, if I can know I tried my hardest and that there's nothing more I could have done.

Yes, this helps me sleep at night. In honesty, I do believe it is completely up to the individual. They don't deserve to die, but they do have a choice.

- btw, my joint was awesome

[Kidthorazine]

i have nothing against people who decide to use hard drugs, its thier body and they can do what they want with it. I dont think those people deserve to die anymore than anyone who decides to drive a car or do any other potentially lethal activity.

Also, everyone has a choice to a degree, but if youve never done these substances, dont go on about how everyone has a choice, because its not that simple.

[Morning Glory]

I mean yeah, Im not saying that you should have to put up with shit from strung out people. but drugs don't make people assholes. Or should I say they don't make people into something that they weren't allready. And I just don't see how being hostile is going to provide a groundwork for people to want to be in a situation to get sober. It's just going to drive them to keep doing the drugs and be more insensed to block everything else out. When I used I had a freind that was straight-edge, and I really resented it. the biggest addiction is an ego trip, and a lot of people are fucked up and hung up on it. Just the fact that someone would suggest my actions weren't right pissed me off to no end. people feel like they have some kind of entitledment. In reality that person never critisized me or my life-style choice, while being admimentlly opposed to it and they put up with my shit and reamined me freind for far longer than any person should reasonably have to. That's one thing that I really feel bad about.

when I decided to get clean I had someone that was there for me that went through it and understood and just knowing that fact helped me more than anything.

[Morning Glory]

here's something that my freind wrote.

"I am an addict/alcoholic. I used as much as I could for about eleven years. I had to cover the pain of physical, sexual, emotional, intellectual and verbal abuse. I didn't get a choice in the matter. I no longer use drugs or alcohol, nor have I used them for roughly ten years now. This is what I've noticed in that period of time:

A lot of anti-drug people advocate a lot of judgment and sometimes even violence. A lot of times I even hear people advocating things like attacking/killing drug dealers/users. I wonder if they realize that to really eradicate drug abuse in America it would entail things like destroying the CIA (who bring the drugs here), Destroying the corporate/capitalist state that has stolen everything to the point where drugs are the only economy and the only relief left (for poor and minority peoples), Destroying the liquor industry that assists in destroying more lives than all the illegal drugs put together, destroying the coffee manufacturers and the cigarette companies. Out of all these evils why do they pick the most defenseless target, the one group who is actually victimized by their position in life, which also happens to be predominately black males. I wonder if they realize that they are promoting the same racist platform as the one's who came up with the Drug War (on the black community)."

[Jax]

I didnt have a choice with one certain drug. I quit for 5 years, and then got back into it, because once an addict always an addict with this certain drug. After having some bad episodes with it, I have now been clean since last December again. A year and 3 months. Can I say I deserve to die if I start again? No. But if I do, I do. I dont plan on starting, you dont ever really 'plan' on it. But being around these people, I would never wish death upon them, otherwise I wouldnt have my best friend, who is now clean as well.

Its a touchy subject. On one hand, fuck these people. On the other, I know how it affects their thinking, as I was there.

[Jax]

I just thought of something.

It reminds me of Scars situation with her rock climbing (I think that was it). We all can remember her talking about her hair getting tangled in the rope and having to be cut. In this situation, knowingly doing a very dangerous activity, would she deserve to die if that happened? I certainly dont think so.

We all choose dangerous activities in our lives. If we die in a car crash, did we deserve it because we know the risks while driving cars? No. We had to do it in order to get where we needed to go, and thats the mentality of many drug addicts.

I once had a drug dealer friend who I respected because he would not deal certain drugs, and the ones he would he would always allow people to stay at his place if they so chose to. Kind of a twisted motherly instinct. But he was there, and he knew if someone was quitting, he would not allow them to buy from him.

I dont know what my point was. But my point now is that many do not deserve to die. A lot of drug addicts continue on because they feel very alone, and turning your back on them causes more harm than good. Im glad my friends put up with me while I was using, because those same friends were my only saving grace when I quit.

[VoltaireBlue]

I think you sound very selfish and heartless. People use drugs for a variety of reasons. reasons that some of us don't understand. some people have lived such fucked up lives, that they can only find one escape, drugs. most of the time their lives are fucked up because they have been the victims of various kinds of abuse, or parental neglect. is this thier fault? do they deserve it? no. no one deserves to be abused, and no one deserves to be neglected. no one deserves to die because of drugs. for someone who says they have been around drugs, but never done them, you sound very ignorant. maybe if you took the time to actually pay attention to others you would know this but then that doesn't benefit you does it? congratulations, you sound just like any other stripper with a false sense of entitlement.

[Mindgames]

ooh.. a topic with teeth at last. *wakes up*

Sara - you're going to get two bipolar replies, as you expected. It's one of those questions where the jury will be hung forever as there's no control group - we're all involved and all biassed even if we've never taken drugs ourselves, as the 'industry' impacts on crime, taxes, politics and friendships. It's fun to poll the community but it's childish fun - an easy to ask question with no advantage in getting a consensus. That explains why some of the participants are replying as they are, so 'asinine' was probably a bad choice in description. Fatuous was probably what you meant, but pithy is what MG was actually being.

Considering your question of choice, it's certainly not that simple. Some people 'choose' to abuse a substance in the sense that they take it for the first time knowing what it is, but others don't - either due to ignorance of the side effects or ignorance of what's in their hands in the first place. Nobody chooses to take drugs because of their dangers, they choose because of the benefits that the substance gives them, plus the availability and cost. If herion killed you but didn't make you feel good first, nobody would be using it. That hurdle pretty much stopped the drug barons of lower Queens cornering the market in cyanide.

I'm not saying that all abused substances have a medically beneficial effect (though to say you've never taken cocaine presumably means you've never been to a dentist, as novocaine is chemically identical when metabolised) but the changes they create are something the user wanted, at least to start with. You don't try dope if you want to work an all-nighter on a college paper, and you don't try PCP if you fancy a relaxing night at a jazz festival.

It is certainly possible to 'cure' the chemical dependency on a drug given enough intervention, in every case. Medically, some are harder than others but the substance can be eliminated and eventually the body regains stasis - but the psychological dependency is a different matter entirely. A drug user knows what the high feels like, and won't forget it. Irrespective of the reason and drawbacks for that high, they know that if they stop they won't feel like that again, and it can be an incredibly difficult barrier to deal with, especially for those made vulnerable by their dependence. It's called predictive avoidance and it figures in a whole lot of other pleasurable or high-excitement events (the rate of clinical depression in astronauts is higher than for any other group in NASA, as they often can't cope with the lifetime of 'normal life' ahead of them after such an extreme experience).

Voltaire and deviant designs make an important point that you seem to avoid, namely that for many people their choice to begin taking drugs is a considered decision - they're facing issues in their life that they can't cope with and despite the risks, the dissociation or euphoria of a drug high seems 'better'. Their judgement may not always be right, but it's also a personal one and you can't apply a blanket decision on everyone.

I think it's important to remember that we're built with an innate tendency for addiction as part of our evolution, but that it's not consciously influential - we know it's there but we have little ability to predict how strong it will be. Almost everyone assumes they are less sensitive to addiction than they actually are, and that's the reason so many millions of people "try" drugs, drink, etc. for the first time. Saying "only one won't get me hooked" may sound silly at an acedemic level, but to the person at the time it's 100% rational. The same areas of the brain that lead to addiction also process relationships and emotion, so just as may people say "falling in love" isn't a thing they planned or felt happening, addition is something that happens partly without conscious recognition.

Should drug users be killed? No - because they're just addicted to something stronger than most of us. You're addicted too - be it to your partner, your social life, chocolate, beer or the cat.

Should we feel sympathy for drug users? No - it's a choice and it backfired, but it was a choice. Sympathy is warranted for the reasons they needed to start, and the fact their lives aren't going too well, just the same as you'd have sympathy for someone being abused or someone who lost their job. The drugs are a reason but sympathy attaches to consequences, not reasons.

Should the whole thing be legalised? No - because making access a little difficult will stop a few people from ever getting on the treadmill. Thinking you can somehow 'eradicate' it is also stupid, as the laws of supply and demand always win over legislation. Even pre-war Iraq and Nazi Germany had rampant drug problems, so the 'free world' hasn't a hope. It's fair enough to keep plugging away just to keep the industry in some form of check, but you can't kill it.

Oh, and since it's relevant I've been a user in the past, I still smoke and drink, still have the memories and still expect that if I took something I'd like the feeling again, even knowing the risks. Right now I don't, but as Jax says you can never tell. Life doesn't follow a script. These days life's good and I get my Sunday morning kicks with extreme sports (btw Jax: it was spelunking that Scar was doing). Next year it may all come crashing down - and I'll handle it whatever way seems right to me at the time. If that kills me then fine - so might free-climbing, but so might the drive to work on Monday.

Am I a junkie or an ex-junkie who should be killed? Well maybe, in your eyes. Shame though, as I kinda planned to start a new book next week..

mG

[antiseptic fashion]

[QUOTE=Mindgames]ooh.. a topic with teeth at last. *wakes up*

Sara - you're going to get two bipolar replies, as you expected. It's one of those questions where the jury will be hung forever as there's no control group - we're all involved and all biased even if we've never taken drugs ourselves, as....QUOTE]


Well said, This tends to be a sensitive issue with me, I appreciate your response, and am in total agreement.

[MrGoff]

Wow Damn OK let me tell you something the war on drugs is a war on people OK with that out of the way.1st look at where you work . I have worked As a roadie in bars one of them is more than 30 years old ( NIN plays there for time to time) the lead singer of blind melon O.D. there i have seen lots of drugs go in and out mostly ran by the cops. Now i work in in tattoo shop. I have seen people fucked up on everything under the sun and then some. The sad thing is addiction is a sickness. Do you lock up sick people ! I think the last ones to think like that was the Nazis. One of my buds from grade school has AIDS and the only way he can hold food down is to smoke pot. I git to see him die slowly and the only thing helping him right now is pot. Damn do you walk up to someone in a wheelchair and say race you? No just try and help out. any way you can. sometimes you have to walk away. but never to far. I have gotten fucked over by addicts. but i still have an open heart.

[Velvet-Tongue]

I'm just against them because they support crime and the removal of human freedom. People think "well I would not become addicted" mayb you wouldent; but what about all the others?

In columbia where the majorit of cocaine is grown and made, drug dealers come into villages and kill familis. They take the land, grow the drug, shoot police officers then through a system of human slavery and greed smuggle it up to north america so people can then use it.

By using heroine, cocaine, oxycotin, marijuana etc all of them illegal substances you're supporting vic , violence, human slavery, extortion, murder, illegal prostitution, and human slavery.

People need to look at the WHOLE picture and not just worry about a fleeting chemicle high.

Next time you light up a joint remmber the police officer who was shot, the family who was murdered, the poor addict who smuggled it through mexico, and remember the amoral druglord on top of his pile of money laughing, and laughing.

[Velvet-Tongue]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=2373919 heres a post by a former coke/heroin addict and the questions people asked him.


and (not safe for work!) are some videos of crack whores. Kinda funny that they're a genre of porn but the reality of it is not. Listen to some of their monologues.

(NWS!) http://www.tiava.com/movies/crackwhore0.php (NWS)

[Mindgames]

I'm just against them because they support crime and the removal of human freedom...

Sure, nobody will disagree that drugs create a criminal industry to supply them, but so does all aspects of crime. Drug crime is 'big' because there are millions of people who use the stuff, but being shot by a drug dealer makes you no more or less dead than being shot for your wallet, your car, your religion, your politics or the gang ink on your wrist.

If being associated to a criminal industry that exploits people in the third world is an excuse to kill someone, then you're going to be in trouble next time you buy a fake DVD or a pair of $10 "N1ke" sneakers.

Drugs are nasty and nasty rich people sell them. Fine. Sure. Point made.

anyone want to talk about the directors of MacDonalds?.....

mG

[MrGoff]

.

By using heroine, cocaine, oxycotin, marijuana etc all of them illegal substances you're supporting vic , violence, human slavery, extortion, murder, illegal prostitution, and human slavery.



Next time you light up a joint remember the police officer who was shot, the family who was murdered, the poor addict who smuggled it through mexico, and remember the amoral druglord on top of his pile of money laughing, and laughing.

thats why i buy homegrown. and pot is now ok in 3 states most drugs are made here! the TV tells you lies. Just to support the wars. If yall think its so bad become a cop. so some poor sucker doesn't die for what you think. Why don't just put on some jack boots and have a big march. The more laws we have the less freedoms we have. whats next locking me up cause i look different. May be you should open that thick head and take a long look at who you are. Go and check out Bill Hicks and see what he said about drugs.

[Kidthorazine]

By using heroine, cocaine, oxycotin, marijuana etc all of them illegal substances you're supporting vic , violence, human slavery, extortion, murder, illegal prostitution, and human slavery.

People need to look at the WHOLE picture and not just worry about a fleeting chemicle high.

Next time you light up a joint remmber the police officer who was shot, the family who was murdered, the poor addict who smuggled it through mexico, and remember the amoral druglord on top of his pile of money laughing, and laughing.

Marijuana in the united states is almost always grown in the united states, a good deal of Oxycodone in the united states is purchased from a pharmacy in the United States. Theres almost no violence involved.

And besides, this is why i support legaliation of al ilicit substances. Aside from the general belief that the government has no right to tell me what i can and cannot willingly put into my body, it would cut down on ODs and virtually eliminate drug crime.

[Velvet-Tongue]

Im for legalizing some drugs to lessen drug crime. When they're legal pretty much the same people will be using them anyway. Certain drugs like heroin/meth/and cocaine should always be illegal however.

[Velvet-Tongue]

thats why i buy homegrown. and pot is now ok in 3 states most drugs are made here! the TV tells you lies. Just to support the wars. If yall think its so bad become a cop. so some poor sucker doesn't die for what you think. Why don't just put on some jack boots and have a big march. The more laws we have the less freedoms we have. whats next locking me up cause i look different. May be you should open that thick head and take a long look at who you are. Go and check out Bill Hicks and see what he said about drugs.

Besides the above statements being very cliche i'll rebuke.

The government SHOULD have a say as to what you put into your body if what you do could harm/interfere with other people Its one of the reasons why the government exists at all. To safe guard and protect order. That does not mean dominate but it does mean show its face.

Just because pot is grown in state means very little. The vry act of growing it is illegal and just because you're buying it from Dave the gangster down the street does not make it any better then buying it from Carlos in mexico. It all trickles down,

[Velvet-Tongue]

Marijuana in the united states is almost always grown in the united states, a good deal of Oxycodone in the united states is purchased from a pharmacy in the United States. Theres almost no violence involved.

Guess all the pharmacy break ins/shootings/etc sorta skipped under your radar. I live in a pretty shitty area and people do get shot for pot money. I know a guy who spends over two thousand dollars to buy and sell marijuana. The only reason I have not turned him in is because of personal weakness of not wanting to see a friend go to jail for years and years.

He was jumped and beaten up by 6 guys who shattered his collar bone and broke his hip. They then robbed his house and stole all the weed to sell along with his jewerly.

Pot does support violence. Just because the college kid you see smoking it looks wonderfully chilled out does not mean that everyone on the chain acts the same.

[Kidthorazine]

Im for legalizing some drugs to lessen drug crime. When they're legal pretty much the same people will be using them anyway. Certain drugs like heroin/meth/and cocaine should always be illegal however.

why? They really arent that much more harmful than alcohol (heroin especially, especially if it was regulated, since the main danger from using heroin (and meth) is that the lack of consistency in purity causes people to accidentally OD (or if the stuff is laced, which is even worse.) Also heroin is the only one of those thats completely illegal,cocaine and meth are both schedule II in in the US with cocaine being used as a local anesthetic in ertain types of surgery and meth (as well other amphetamines) being used on kids to treat ADHD.

Guess all the pharmacy break ins/shootings/etc sorta skipped under your radar. I live in a pretty shitty area and people do get shot for pot money. I know a guy who spends over two thousand dollars to buy and sell marijuana. The only reason I have not turned him in is because of personal weakness of not wanting to see a friend go to jail for years and years.

He was jumped and beaten up by 6 guys who shattered his collar bone and broke his hip. They then robbed his house and stole all the weed to sell along with his jewerly.

Pot does support violence. Just because the college kid you see smoking it looks wonderfully chilled out does not mean that everyone on the chain acts the same.

Paying federal taxes supports violence too, so does buying anything from any company that pays federal taxes, im just not going to pay taxes any more and stop buying stuff.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

Of course, if the government taxes "recreational" drugs, then they can make even more money from those people taking them. True, the quality would be better, (there'd be no coke cut with drain cleaner) but you'l have to pay more every budget year, because the government will have to pay to man hospitals with more people to deal with the drug related problems, (well, that's the theory of what would happen over here)

[Kidthorazine]

i dont think that would happen, most people who dont do drugs choose not to do them because they dont want too, not because they are illegal, and people who do drugs just dont give a shit. and also providing people with pure drugs would cut down the amount of drug related problems people have significantly.

[MrGoff]

If you don't like drugs go home tonight and take all your tapes and Cd's and burn them cause all people that have made all that grate music all these years REAL FUCKIN HIGH ON DRUGS. Hell if drugs are so bad look at Keith Richards.