should Gay pub win right to ban straights?

[karyn]

from yahoo

MELBOURNE (Reuters) - An Australian hotel catering for homosexuals has won the right to ban heterosexuals from its bars so as to provide a safe and comfortable venue for gay men.

In what is believed to be a first for Australia, the Victorian state civil and administrative tribunal ruled last week that the Peel Hotel in the southern city of Melbourne could exclude patrons based on their sexuality.

Australia's equal opportunity laws prevent people being discriminated against based on race, religion or sexuality.

But Peel Hotel owner Tom McFeely said the ruling was necessary to provide gay men with a non-threatening atmosphere to freely express their sexuality.

"If I can limit the number of heterosexuals entering the Peel, then that helps me keep the safe balance," Peel told Australian radio on Monday.

McFeely said that, while the hotel welcomed everyone, its gay clientele had expressed discomfort over the number of heterosexuals and lesbians coming to the venue in the past year.

He said there were more than 2,000 venues in Melbourne that catered to heterosexuals, but his hotel was the only one marketing itself predominantly to gay men.

Victoria's state human rights commission backed the ruling, saying it was in line with equal opportunity guidelines defending the rights of groups subject to discrimination.

Commission chief Helen Szoke said the hotel's gay clientele had experienced harassment and violence. "(They) also have felt as though they've been like a zoo exhibit with big groups of women on hens' parties coming to the club," Szoke told reporters.

McFeely told the radio that the hotel had received homophobic telephone calls since news of the ruling was made public.

[One Eyed Cat]

God, this is such an excellent question Karyn. In the US, gay youth cannot join the Boy Scouts. I hope Australia will not allow this either way. I am really torn though. Thanks for posting this. I really need to think about this.

OEC (I also reserve my stance on sexualities generally)

[Rockwulf]

My friend Amy and I were thrown out of a gay bar in Sydney about 4 years ago. This isn't anything new.

[One Eyed Cat]

My friend Amy and I were thrown out of a gay bar in Sydney about 4 years ago. This isn't anything new.

That sucks. Thanks for the info though.

OEC

[Bondage Clown]

I have no problem with this. There are exclusive clubs all over the place.

[One Eyed Cat]

I have no problem with this. There are exclusive clubs all over the place.

I can't say Im opposed on principle. The Boy Scout decision just gives me pause. Given this, I'd say they can exclude although I don't think it helps matters in this so-called "culture war".

OEC

[Mr Karl]

don't really go to gaybars so guess it doesn't matter to me

[HempKnight]

... But Peel Hotel owner Tom McFeely said the ruling was necessary to provide gay men with a non-threatening atmosphere to freely express their sexuality....

So that's how the postman is spending his retirement
from Mister Rogers' Neighbourhood.

[EasyRider]

McFeely was Mr. Rogers' middle name

[HempKnight]

Yes it was... as it was his mother's maiden name
and the postman was a character based on
his grandfather, Fred McFeely.

[Superna]

Personally, I love gay bars... I hope thry still let me in after this precident is set.

[grebo]

i live in the city the pubs in, its a bunch of media homophobia
there another gay pub thats had the same rule for almost 10-15 years
http://www.laird.com.au/ (its a scarey leatherman/bear pub)
there is also female only gyms
the big problem is that The Peel was getting so popular straights were going there.
ive been there years ago, nothing special, bad music, dark corners, etc that you would expect from a small gay pub

[One Eyed Cat]

One thing that popped to my mind: Who checks if you're gay?? A lot of folks would prefer not to identify as any sexual preference on principle. Do they do background checks? (but a dark laughter)

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

Personally, I love gay bars... I hope thry still let me in after this precident is set.

Are u in Ausralia? It won't in the U.S. Even in Australia, I'm assuming the bar at least still has a choice. That would be really fucked-up if they didn't. That's Soviet style back alley shit.

OEC

[Inquizitive]

I'm straight but some of the best nights out I've had have been with gay and lesbian friends. It seem a shame to have a general ban against straight people, some of us are pretty tolerant.

[a_small_death]

One thing that popped to my mind: Who checks if you're gay?? A lot of folks would prefer not to identify as any sexual preference on principle. Do they do background checks? (but a dark laughter)

OEC

I dunno but that's the way it feel's from this story . hell do they have the FBI working for the bast I wonder?

[One Eyed Cat]

I dunno but that's the way it feel's from this story . hell do they have the FBI working for the bast I wonder?

It's Australia. It would be at the owners' discretion. I guess they would have someone with "gaydar" at the door? It's very odd. They have the legal right, but it is unfortunate I see so many ppl here at BB that would be fucked. If I ever opened such a club, I'd let everyone in (although I have actually been to clubs that make u sign waivers saying you are not a cop) I am not sure this would hold up in court. It was a fun place though.

OEC

[HempKnight]

One thing that popped to my mind: Who checks if you're gay?? A lot of folks would prefer not to identify as any sexual preference on principle. Do they do background checks? (but a dark laughter)

OEC

Reading that reminded me of the American Dad episode
"Lincoln Lover" where Stan is supposed to speak at the RNC
and they have to pass an anti-gay checkpoint and later after
joining the Log Cabin Republicans has to go answer anti-hetero
questions to be allowed on the gay cruise... which he fails, then
attempts to become a power top to prove he's gay. MacFarlane
just keeps the funny coming and hope that he will have the kind
of run that Fox has given to Groening & Co.

But also makes me think of one of the first Eurohomo clubs I
visited in my youth, during one of my treks throughout that side
of the globe... the doorman would greet non-regular patrons with
a full open-mouthed kiss and crotch grope, any reaction other
than favourable was grounds for not being admitted. The name
and location of the club escapes me and I'm sure that the policy
has changed in the years since, but can attest that it is a fairly
fool-proof indicator.

[Superna]

well if they check to see if I'm gay or not... they will find out that....

I am gay

sometimes

[Black Spiral Dancer]

The thing is, how do you know if you're straight? You could be Bi-Sexual, in which case do you stand in the doorway, since the half of you that like people of the opposite sex is banned? Will all people be required to carry ID proving whether they are gay or straight?

I have been in gay bars before (a long time ago, when I was drinkng with a bi-sexual friend) and I made it clear that I was straight. I got no hassle from the gay men, true they would wind me up, but I just play along, saying things like "You'll never find out unless you suddenly change sex!"

If a gay person goes into a straight bar and someone tries to hit on them, would they be thrown out because they're gay? Doubtful, but there is one pub in Newcastle (where I live) that will not allow Goth Boys in wearing make-up, as they see it as a gay thing. Still can't figure that one out.

[Kidthorazine]

I would support this only if other bars had the option of banning gays, however I think then the gay community would scream about how bigoted the government is for allowing it, fuck double standards.

[Mr Karl]

everybody should be free to have double standards if they want

[Kidthorazine]

everybody should be free to have double standards if they want

the government shouldn't.

[inox]

How would they know if a guy was gay or not? Gaydar at the door?

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

You now I was almost agreeing with the ruling until I read this line a little closer.

McFeely said that, while the hotel welcomed everyone, its gay clientele had expressed discomfort over the number of heterosexuals and lesbians coming to the venue in the past year.

So, yeah, the lesbians make them feel uncomfortable...

The gay community gets a rough go of it in a lot of places. My initial gut reaction was that they should just remove customers that are harassing the patrons, but I understand it may be hard to prevent them from being crowded out and it is harder to prevent harassment then stop it after the fact. Then the line about the lesbians making them uncomfortable hit me. I cannot wrap my head around that being right. Is it trying to get rid of or actual harassment or just the presence of people who don't practice the same sexuality that the place ? At that point, screw it. Everyone should have to play by the same rules.

[One Eyed Cat]

You now I was almost agreeing with the ruling until I read this line a little closer.



So, yeah, the lesbians make them feel uncomfortable...

The gay community gets a rough go of it in a lot of places. My initial gut reaction was that they should just remove customers that are harassing the patrons, but I understand it may be hard to prevent them from being crowded out and it is harder to prevent harassment then stop it after the fact. Then the line about the lesbians making them uncomfortable hit me. I cannot wrap my head around that being right. Is it trying to get rid of or actual harassment or just the presence of people who don't practice the same sexuality that the place ? At that point, screw it. Everyone should have to play by the same rules.

cpm, check this precedent on excluding gays from the Boy Scouts. Don't let it affect your judgment as that is way more important. This just gives u a sense of why some would consider this tit for tat were it to arise in the U.S.. The issues are not identical, but the tenor of the decision is telling. I am still undecided
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-699.ZS.html

I'll get the rest to u in the next month or so.

Take Care

OEC

[inox]

Honestly, I am of the opinion that your sexual preference should never be the basis of you being excluded from anything, except sex with a gender you don't prefer.

[One Eyed Cat]

Honestly, I am of the opinion that your sexual preference should never be the basis of you being excluded from anything, except sex with a gender you don't prefer.

I totally agree. People should know that SCOTUS allowed exactly that though. The playing field is not currently level. That would give me pause on this were it to arise in the US. Practically speaking though, people are gonna associate (or not associate) with whomever they want to (just less formally)

OEC

[badkittyamy]

Yes i know I wouldn't want to go to a bar or club i couldn't take my friends to because they aren't gay. if someone is harassing someone about their sexuality in a gay bar just kick them out.

[the_darkness_calls]

Yes i know I wouldn't want to go to a bar or club i couldn't take my friends to because they aren't gay. if someone is harassing someone about their sexuality in a gay bar just kick them out.

exaaaaactly. And what exactly would they do about bi people, I wonder? I;m curious.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

I wan't real thrilled about the boy scout ruling either, but the US does not have any laws protecting sexual preferences. We should, but we don't. The boy scouts don't get a nickel of support from me these days, and I continue to send letters to my representatives, but this is irrelevant to the Australian case.

Australia's equal opportunity laws prevent people being discriminated against based on race, religion or sexuality.

Maybe an Aussie can clarify that, but to me equal opportunity laws do not work if they only move in one direction. We should have them in the US, but our failure to do so should not invalidate Australian law.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

And what exactly would they do about bi people, I wonder? I;m curious.

I believe that is what I said. Would Bi people stand in the doorway, since they are only "half-gay"?

Sexual preference should never be an issue. Unless you are doing it in public or making a living from it, your sex life should be a private thing. I know this sounds like hypocrisy coming from me, but it's not. You can tell friends if you're gay or straight, but some doorman/bouncer/pub owner doesn't need to know that you like to dress up in lacy underwear and take razorblades to your nipples in the privacy of your bedroom.

[One Eyed Cat]

I wan't real thrilled about the boy scout ruling either, but the US does not have any laws protecting sexual preferences. We should, but we don't. The boy scouts don't get a nickel of support from me these days, and I continue to send letters to my representatives, but this is irrelevant to the Australian case.



Maybe an Aussie can clarify that, but to me equal opportunity laws do not work if they only move in one direction. We should have them in the US, but our failure to do so should not invalidate Australian law.

I agree. I just wanted you to know the present state of the law in the U.S (as a sidenote) Obviously, you already did. It would be interesting, however, to know the Australian anti-discrimination laws in their totality. I don't. It would give us a better context from which to view this specific law.

OEC

[bohoki]

well if it allows other bars to ban gays then it seems like a fair tradeoff

if not it seems uneven

[Black Spiral Dancer]

well if it allows other bars to ban gays then it seems like a fair tradeoff

if not it seems uneven

That's the problem, if a gay person was refused entry to a bar in Britain, the gay community would be up in arms, organising gay pride marchs and protesting outside the bar.
If I (straight person) were turned away from a gay bar for being straight, I'd suck it up and go to another bar. Simple as that.

[shiki]

That's the problem, if a gay person was refused entry to a bar in Britain, the gay community would be up in arms, organising gay pride marchs and protesting outside the bar.
If I (straight person) were turned away from a gay bar for being straight, I'd suck it up and go to another bar. Simple as that.

i and a group of other girls were denied entry into the gay strip club in DC because we were females...we were pretty pissed, its not like you can go see hot boys dancing naked on a bar just any where. I'm sure we could have made a stink but it wasn't worth it. I just thought it was very lame. How can you expect equality if you're going to treat others the same way you are being mistreated?

[Black Spiral Dancer]

i and a group of other girls were denied entry into the gay strip club in DC because we were females...we were pretty pissed, its not like you can go see hot boys dancing naked on a bar just any where. I'm sure we could have made a stink but it wasn't worth it. I just thought it was very lame. How can you expect equality if you're going to treat others the same way you are being mistreated?

How did they know you and your friends were Lesbians?

You are right, they should take the moral high ground and not discriminate, setting a standard for the "mainstream" to aspire to.

[shiki]

I'm pretty sure they didn't think we were lesbians as we were there to see naked men dance and stuff money into their socks...it wasn't that we were lesbians, its that we were not gay men.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

They're supposed to be a business. I believe women are allowed to go watch female lapdancers if they want to and stuff notes in their g-strings. It shouldn't be about sexuality, it should be about business.

[Thistle Harlequin]

My friend Amy and I were thrown out of a gay bar in Sydney about 4 years ago. This isn't anything new.

haha I'm soo gay I wonder if I'd get in for free!