Marriage - When wil men learn?

[karyn]

from families4fathers on current

With 3 out of 4 marriages ending in divorce and 83 percent of custody cases going to females, it is no wonder that there is a lack of willingness and feeling of despair amongst men when it comes to participating in raising their children. Most men report that they are met with fierce resistance by not only the mother but also the court system that generally has little compassion or willingness to assist in a father’s desire to remain a force in the lives of their children. Family court judges not only allow fathers to be restricted from the lives of their own children, but consistently ignore false allegations, improper conduct, visitation denials, violations of court orders, and false police reports that are committed by the mother.
This brings us to the question of why are men still getting married and having children? With all the odds, statistics, and past cases showing that a man risks not only losing everything he has worked for up until that point but he is almost assured that his ability to survive post divorce is slim to none. When a man runs not only the risk of losing his current finances, his ability to parent his children and then the ability to financially support himself it is no wonder that more and more men are turning to surrogate mothers to bear their children or just not getting married in the first place. Even with a surrogate mother, a man has to be real careful that he not only is not given the child he was promised but there is a good chance he will be financially responsible for a child he rarely gets to see. There have been thousands of cases where the mother was found to have lied and claimed a man was the father of her child when it turned out to be proven that she became pregnant by another man. Not only did the courts fail to arrest, prosecute, or at the very least condemn her actions. Instead, the courts ruled that the non-father was still responsible to provide financial support for the child that was not even his. How is it possible that a mother can be rewarded for lying, committing adultery, deceiving the court and her own child? This is not an isolated case either. It has been proven that 1 in 5 men are not the father of the child that the mother claimed, but yet family court refuses to take action against the false testimony and deceitful actions of the mother.
Which brings us back to the question of when men are going to wake up and walk away from this farce called “family” and marriage which can be dissolved even against a father’s wishes? With the passing of no fault divorce, there is no need to prove anymore a viable reason for terminating a marriage. So, the phrase “till death do us apart” no longer exists. Instead, it is simply. Until I have grown tired of you and have ensured your finances, your future finances, and have gained the child I was looking for. Granted, not all cases end up like this but women are quickly learning that they can achieve everything that they wished for – family, security, and a comfortable life, all at the expense of a man whom was stupid enough to fall into the idea of love and commitment.
It is time that men wake up and either walks away from this farce that is called marriage or they begin to speak up before it is too late. We see and hear from father after father of how bad they were screwed and left broke by their ex and the family court system. We must ask ourselves at this point, whose fault is it? There is no one to blame except himself for entering into such a losing contract to begin with. Any businessman if presented the pros and cons of marriage and raising a family would have to be a complete idiot to even consider entertaining such an agreement. When everything pointed to possible mental, emotional, and financial ruin it is time to get the hell out of there.
Oh yeah, but I love her we hear. Let’s see how much you love her when you cannot see your own child, have no money, and are left with nothing but pain and heart ache.

[Bikerpunk]

Bots are grabbing our logins now?

[Morning Glory]

yes, that did seem a bit off to me too. (I think it's the lack of paragraph structure, something that is guaranteed to make me not bother reading the post.)

so yeah, it can suck being a single dad. it can suck being a single mom too, and that's usually the fault of deadbeat dads so I can understand why the court sticks with a proven trend. But it's shitty for a dad that is really trying to do the right thing.

I have a friend that's going through this exact thing, so I can sympathize. As to why men go through it in the first place, I'd say temporary insanity. that's the only logical reasoning.

[Obscuria.com]

It's funny that with all the horror stories out there.... it is "assumed" that marriage and children is the only way to proceed for a normal life. What is one of the first questions people ask when they find out a couple has been together for many years?

"When are you two getting married!". But why,... if two people are in love with each other, is a piece of paper going to make any difference?

Luckily, my girl and I have been together 5+ years, and see no need for marriage as we have it great, never argue, and NEVER want any children.

As Thoreau mentioned "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them. " So many guys I have met expressed their sentiment that they got "trapped" into their situation.... or are unhappy and cheat on their spouse, or have to "hide" their extra cash so the wife doesn't find out about it...something is amiss with that scenario.

Or of course there is the other side of the coin in which couples think having a child will mend their broken relationships! I feel sorry for those kids...
All of this may sound cynical... but it's just an observation, as I'm sure there are tons of happy couples content with the traditional nuclear family unit.

[athenahollow]

My man and I have been together for nearly 6 years (lived/slept together for a month before we became a "couple") and have a 2 1/2 year old kid. Everyone always asks when we are getting married, and to be perfectly honest, I'm the one who keeps saying "We'll wait" because I wanna have a kickass awesome freakish wedding, and money just isn't that abundant at the moment

[Aza]

I've no interest in the traditional idea of marriage; too many chains involved, no matter whether they're secured and locked by spoken words or unspoken expectations. It's not that I expect to be cleaned out by the first woman to whom I get hitched; I'd like to think I'm a better judge of character than that. I just don't think it's a ritual with any modern-day importance extending beyond finances.

And of course, the financial benefit only lasts as long as the marriage itself before it becomes instead a burden on one of the divorcees... most often the man, but occasionally the woman.

I don't condone marriage. I can't...

How my parents have made it work all these years, I'll honestly never know.

[OliX]

Injustice makes me frustrated.

Is something so unfair like this enough to counter all injustice that was made by man for woman? Who made more injustice overall? Male or female race?


For the record. My own opinion that we should never look at who made more and who made less. That way we're trading. And for healthy relationships in any context we should always try to give and don't expect back.

After all giving is actually taking, as it's said in Bible. Same part of brain is responsible for both emotions of rewarding or being rewarded so it doesn't recognize if you gave or took something. YAY! Now I can only take and take and I'll feel as if I'm giving and giving

[Jax]

Im glad my fiance is an idiot. I cant wait for my wedding. Black and red themed.

[Vexbeast]

I'm pretty sure my dad hates my mum as much as I do...

This reminds me of a friend who lost a custody battle to a unreliable drunkard just because she was christian. ;__;

Living scares me...

[Velvet-Tongue]

Calling bullshit on 83% statistic there. Its about 50%

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/divorce.htm

Other stuff.

http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't see anything wrong with marriage. When done right its a great way to stabilize your life and prepare it for the future.

But that all hinges on where you want to go with life. If you're stuck in teenager mode still and just wanna fuck a lot of girls/guys, party all night and work a shitty job forever then I recommend you not get married or have children (That our taxes will end up raising).

If you're tired of that stuff and are looking to find a good companion to build a life with, stabilize your economics, travel with etc then marriage sounds great.

Depending on what you want to do with your life marriage has alot of benefits. You'll have a double income, the ability to do a lot more. Have time to develop your spirituality (as you no longer have that relationship finding/sex finding drive which for me at least was a big pull from other things.)

Marriage does not have to be a prison, if you find the right person, I'm 20 and unmarried so you could call me on trying to talk out of my experience but I've seen some incredibly happy marriages. The key to them seems to be having similar values, very similar interests (seems to be the biggest) and a mutual agreement to grow up together. My girlfriend at the moment and I share about 90% common interests. We can sit and watch discovery/national geo whatever and no one complains, play video games, go exercise, do the SCA etc. There is very little each of us can enjoy while the other partner is bored to tears.

You can't be focused on your adult married life while the other partner is stuck in teen-mode.


Now alot of what I said goes out the window if you have children. That for me would make life extra difficult because you're pretty much enslaved for 18 years. I may be beyond the desire to sleep around and party alot but I'm still not ready for giving my life up to raise a new human either lol. Its defiantly a calling for some people but not me.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

I think the problem with marriage is that it is a contract with too many unspoken expectations.

Fidelity, children, history, financial stability, emotion, privacy, an responsibility. Everyone has these ideas of what roles they should play in a marriage, but nobody talks about them because they assume everyone else thinks the way they do.

I think a lot of problems would be solved if we actually vocalized these thing in the beginning of the marriage contract. Check box a for life time monogamy, box b for an open relationship. If the wife or husband intends to give up pursuit of a career at the spouses request, please initial here. But that is just my cynicism talking.

As far as family court goes, it swings. Less than 30 years ago a woman barely got a shake in family court unless she had good (expensive) lawyers. Custody could be lost because a woman did something unwomanly like taking a job. Things like the woman being beaten regularly were met with the good ole boy nods. Enforcing child support was near impossible and enforcing custody restrictions was a joke. The problem was they started swinging it way out to the other side. Not always but often enough and bad enough.They keep using the excuse that it is all about protecting the children, but if that were true the money Joe Broke and the money Donald Trump paid in child support would get split up even among the kids that need the support, and we know that don't happen.

Regardless of what gender, religions, or whatever other nonsense family court decides to be biased against, it needs some serious review.

Stupid flu, making me all serious...

[Bikerpunk]

Marriage is a hopelessly one-sided contract I will never get into again.

[skully]

1) Marriage itself is a beautiful thing when done for the right reasons.

2) In the old days there was almost no such thing as divorce so I feel people put more effort into making it work. To many people now adays confuse what NEEDS to happen vs what they think SHOULD happen to make relationships work.

3) does anybody find it out that people drop millions into counseling and HelpBooks to save a relationship, but almost nobody goes and gets training in relationships Before there is a problem?

this is something that is pushed heavily in the BDSM world. Classes and Education that sure can teach you how to swing a flogger or tie a harness or a whip but will also do a good job of how to work with the relationship and mental aspects.

Same with Polyamorous people, Almost every poly couple I have ever meet has read "the Ethical Slut"

Cheers
Skully

[TheDeathKnight]

I really don't see the point.

Most marriages don't last for life.

As long as the word "TRY" is in the ceremony, I guess it's ok.

"I will TRY to stay in love with only you..."
"I will TRY to stay with you the rest of my life..."

And so on...

It's just very hard for most people to imagine what it would be like to be with the same person for 30 or 40 years or more. What if they change religions? Or go insane? Or become a totally different person? Or cheat on you? Are you supposed to stay with someone even if you are miserable? I just don't think people should make lifelong commitments...

[Raza]

Families are refuge for people looking to indulge their most selfish social instincts and call it 'only the right thing'. It pretends to work out only so long as each participant is willing to stop just short of anything that would break the act; nastiness is permissible only so long as you stick to your roles. Break the illusion, and all you'll have left is a bunch of people, who suddenly all look very nasty as they bother eachother with inexplicable demands and intrusions.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Families are refuge for people looking to indulge their most selfish social instincts and call it 'only the right thing'. It pretends to work out only so long as each participant is willing to stop just short of anything that would break the act; nastiness is permissible only so long as you stick to your roles. Break the illusion, and all you'll have left is a bunch of people, who suddenly all look very nasty as they bother eachother with inexplicable demands and intrusions.

That can be said of any relationship (Married or not) that lasts a certain amount of time.

[Raza]

Any relationship, division, hierarchy or anything else that places people into roles that change how their behaviour is judged from how this would be done to a generic individual, yes. That realisation is the essence of anarchism.

[sunkarma]

This is the reason why I will never be married. this is just way too confusing...and I don't think I can deal with a person past one year anyway- so go figure.

[Bikerpunk]

It's a good racket if you're a girl though.

Ceremony where you're the center of attention, makeover, tons of presents, and if it doesn't work out, you get half some guy's stuff and a cheque for a couple of decades, if you were clever enough to get pregnant sometime while with him.

[Morning Glory]

So what you are saying is that after every marriage ceremony Ashton Kutcher should pop out and yell, "You've been punked!"

[Bikerpunk]

No, the lawyers do that adequately well.

[sunkarma]

It's a good racket if you're a girl though.

Ceremony where you're the center of attention, makeover, tons of presents, and if it doesn't work out, you get half some guy's stuff and a cheque for a couple of decades, if you were clever enough to get pregnant sometime while with him.

that sounds quite opportunist...and I'd rather make my own future and not depend on a guy to do it for me...eck.

Kids? Bah...I'd rather have cats....

although I suppose some people would love this....I don't entertain that option. I'd rather be open to making my own destiny single.

[Bikerpunk]

You still get the ceremony and presents.