Are Post-modern Goths conformist?

[Solutrean]

N.B.
**Before the Left wingers (and I know there are many) start having temper tantrums and posting in a totally outdated-Freudo-Marxist-irrational manner, I would ask that they at least take the time to view the video links provided below with an open, rational mind (if this is at all possible).**

Good evening ladies and gentlemen, good evening to your esteemed colleagues,

I have a question for contemporary (hereinafter specifically, ‘white’) goths that addresses their conformity to the status quo, i.e., the mannerisms, or zeitgeist of multiculturalism and diversity. I was under the impression that goths rebel against everything, ie., that goths are anti-_____. (everything)

To provide some contextual background, I have included links to some videos which briefly explains and critiques cultural marxism (which is primarily responsible for the current cultural zeitgeist); I realize that this is not the entire story (to do so, would fill volumes) but it is a start, particularly amongst you who have been “schooled” in contemporary academia or, more accurately, “indoctrinated”, so to speak.

The Frankfurt School:
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghx3d1GiAc0

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkcy7256tBM

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG6TcYfpQOg


Minority Rule: (covers a wider range of intellectual discourse including Boasian Anthropology and Evolutionary Psychology)

Parts 1 to 6:

Part 1 (just link to other parts on youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPnCB...eature=related


I have perused this website, and found an overwhelming majority of the goths are "left leaning" cultural marxists, who also advocate diversity/multiculturalism, which, in turn, inevitably includes the destruction of Western civilization. When viewed in this context, it seems that especially (white) goths willingly conform to their marxist professors/educators/peers without even thinking critically about the multicultural zeitgeist and its implications for their own (Western) culture.

Now, the current zeitgeist of multiculturalism and diversity is adopted by all mainstream institutions, including academia. If goths accept this world view, as they obviously do, (often in a very condescending and violent way- the antifa comes to mind, but I digress…), it is contrary to the gothic mentality of rebellion; for, if goths were rebellious, would they not rebel against this constant influx of cultural marxism that is now mainstream? Why do goths still conform to this liberal/leftist multicultural zeitgeist? I've known many goths to simply accept these ideas without thinking about challenging them in any way.

Goths were rebellious many years ago when conservatism was not only mainstream, but also espoused traditional conservative (aka paleoconservative) ideas, and goths rebelled against that ideology by adopting the opinions of their marxist professors/educators. But now, it is ironic that no goth - not even one- rebels against what is now mainstream, whether neocon or liberal, and there might be a few reasons for this.

One reason is the marxist’s invention of “nova lingua” or new language to suppress any sort of criticism of the left; words such as racist, homophobe, politically incorrect, etc. Specifically, (white) European goths are terrified of such labels and one wonders how this came about? The aforementioned words above and phrases such as "ethnic sensitivity training" or "hate speech," indeed, such flowery expressions. Who crafted these words? They did not exist in our vocabulary some 30-40 years ago. And I'm stunned as to why there has not been a counter cultural back lash against this constant ideological tyranny from the marxist left, especially among youth. In only one country, the USA, where citizens are still protected under the first amendment, it boggles the mind as to why young (white) goths have not had more courage to rebel and are not using their constitutional rights to dislodge these marxists from the institutions, regardless of whatever "label" the left slings at them.

Another reason is the criminalization (in some unfortunate countries such as Canada or Germany) of such criticisms of the left by passing legislation and dealing out heavy penalties for such criticisms; again, what happened to those rebellious goths of yesteryear who rebelled against the (conservative) establishment which laid down laws that trampled on their freedoms? Why are they not now right there to protest that very same mainstream establishment (that has now morphed into the tyrannical left due to the residual cultural signifiers of marxism) and is again toying with the idea trampling on personal freedoms in the name of multiculturalism and diversity?

Finally, another reason is obviously the educational system and the resulting cultural hegemony of the marxists – in short, a cultural vacuum with no cultural alternative available to the youth. As marxist educators, they are able to reach the masses and it becomes very easy, not so much to educate, but rather to indoctrinate the youth. And this is particularly true in the humanities, social-sciences and arts, which are typically the "goth domain." It is little wonder that they conform, after all, if they disagree with their profs, they are likely to be ostracized by their peers or receive a lesser grade. So much for quality education.

So, ladies and gentlemen, in my conclusion, what would you, as (white) goths, think about a “Neue Kultur”, or a new mannerism or counter cultural effort that rejects or rebels against the tyranny of the cultural marxists? That rejects the vulgarity, degeneracy and lies of the fascist left and restores the nobility, propriety, tradition, morality and above all, truth of the New Right? Do you think that this is at all possible, to rebel against these dominant institutions who have too much political control due to their cultural hegemony? In short, to fight for what is, from a Western perspective, right?



As our (white) current situation inevitably leads to the partitioning into ethno-states, (c.f., Wilmot Robertson’s “The Ethnostate”) due to the inherent racial tensions that always come with multiculturalism and diversity, I believe that (white) goths, will eventually shake off the yoke of marxist/leftist multicultural tyranny. It seems that Nature is already telling us what is truth:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-America.html
http://www.articlesafari.com/2010/09...lly-identical/
http://www.articlesafari.com/2010/09...e-from-africa/


As science, more and more each day, continues to prove that there are indeed very real racial differences and as “social engineers” come to acknowledge that there are huge unbreakable barriers to achieving a multicultural society, as (white) goths see their opportunities taken away from them in the name of tyrannical policies such as affirmative action and hate speech, there is only one (Right) direction, to which (white) goths will turn…


Thank you kindly for reading my essay. I look forward to reading your responses.

[Velvet-Tongue]

So basically liberal goths who believe in multiculturalism and freedom are Marxists.

You are also asking for goths to turn away from multiculturalism because cultures and people are too different to get along.

How about you take your shit and get the fuck out. This country gives freedom to everyone in it equally and should open its arms to everyone equally. As long as Group A agrees to follow the social contract and obey the law theres no problems. If they DONT follow the social contract then there are consequences.

[Mr Karl]

sorry....too long..... didn't read

[Raza]

I was under the impression that goths rebel against everything, ie., that goths are anti-_____. (everything)

You were under the wrong impression.

The rest of your post is now irrelevant.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Hear that social sciences! You are goth domain!

When I was young there was a group of skinheads in my end of town. Shaven headed tough guys who loved to fight, but generally decent guys. They hated government in that early 80s juvenile way, but general treated people good and listened to music too loud. Then the racist, nazi fuckwit skinheads moved in on the scene. Some of them preached similar BS, multiculturalism is destroying white culture, quoting some ass-clowns who said we were commies cause we didn't hate the black kids in the neighborhood. Eventually the other skinheads quit being skinheads on account of the nazi fuckwits being what everyone identified the skinheads with. (I say nazi not cause they were racist, they were all about swastikas, racial purity ect.).

So, in honor of the lengthy post, I won't call what you said racist bullshit, I will just focus on the bullshit part.

Goths who embrace multiculturalism and diversity do it not as some liberal indoctrination (I couldn't afford a four year college, so i had to wash my own brain) but because many of us like variety. A strong (white) goth monoculture moving in one (right) direction would lead to a boring, stagnant place. Stagnation sucks. Variety doesn't suck.

Also, as yet no one has defined white beyond the color of my skin. Some (white) people claim that makes a culture, but really, I need more substance than that. Oh i hear claims of tradition, Christianity, and what have you, but my Norwegian ancestors had a very different culture than my Italian, Irish, and even English ones, and my friends with Polish, Czech, and Romanian ancestry have different traditions still. Most of them don't even speak English! What is the difference between those and the culture brought to me from Africa, south America or Asia?

So, in short, your bullshit is bullshit and, despite what you think I have spent a great deal of time thinking on the subject. You clearly have little understanding of race, culture and goth culture in particular (for fucks sake, how many libertarians do we have on this board) and you have now wasted ten minutes of my life. Learn what your (white) culture actually is before you try to sell it to me.


On a side note, I find it entirely amusing that Firefox will correct me when I misspell ass-clown.

[aXa]

you sound like you are confusing punk with goth. a

and you totally lost me after you first mentioned marxism. or i just stopped listening.

[TheDeathKnight]

you sound like you are confusing punk with goth. a

Exactly.

The only definition I know of "goth" is enjoyment of certain musical styles, and wearing black.
There isn't very much of a "belief system" attached to it. Goths don't generally stick to any
one political viewpoint, or philosophy, or ethical code. Everyone is different, except for
the general enjoyment of the darker sides of life. Death, skulls, the occult, etc...But
it's actually very diverse. You have satanists, wiccans, atheists, christians, and
everything else. Same with politics. I know goth conservatives, goth liberals, etc.
Some are pro gun, some are anti-gun. Some are pro-life, some are pro-choice.

That's actually one of the main reason I gravitated towards this scene.
Because when I go to the clubs, I see all kinds of different races, cultures,
and appearances, and everyone generally gets along. No fights, no
bigotry, no prejudice, etc. There are people of all races, all sexual
orientations, and no one really gives a crap...

[Raza]

Exactly.

The only definition I know of "goth" is enjoyment of certain musical styles, and wearing black.
There isn't very much of a "belief system" attached to it. Goths don't generally stick to any
one political viewpoint, or philosophy, or ethical code.

Partially agreed.

My tentative definition of goth is that it is aesthetical counterculture, where the objective is to find beauty in things carrying a negative connotation of some kind in the mainstream. It is counterculture, but like most countercultures it is targeted, not the generic anti-ism that alienated normal people make the term out to mean.

By this definition, goth culture has every reason to be multicultural and tolerant, because every interest that defines it requires these traits for its acceptance. Its countercultural portfolio contains no incentive to oppose these influences, and every reason to embrace them.


What I'm not sure about is that our new propagandist friend's rant applies any better to punk. Certainly, punk culture could be described as ethical/social/political counterculture... but pioneering an influence is not conformity, and for what marginal progress it makes the mainstream is far from dominated by multicultural and economically social values. It has learned to swallow a few oft-repeated singular statements, such as 'hating on blacks is wrong', but it finds new black sheep far more quickly than old ones are recognized and asserted as sacrosanct against generalized critique. We're imprinting people that 2+2 equals 4, but we're not teaching them to add.

Our man Solutrean seems to be suffering from a case of ideologically tinted glasses, allowing him (as is characteristic of right wing, xenophobic ideologues) to see only what he is afraid of. If our culture was half as far along as he seems to fear, countercultures would have ceased to be distinguishable - only then could they be accused of conformity, and at that time it would be long irrelevant.

[TheDeathKnight]

Cafe_Post_Mortem brings up some interesting points, regarding "white" supremacy movements.

On one hand, I understand the concept of groups sticking together when resources become scarce.
In Africa, even though they are generally of the same "race", they fight amongst tribes,
because resources are so scarce. So if anarchy reigned in the streets of America,
and it was everyone for themselves, I think groups of similar race would also prey on each other.
If there is value in "sticking together", I see no reason why multi-racial groups could not also "stick together".
The army is multi-cultural, and they've been pretty effective.
So if multiple races can train to fight together in the army and marines, etc,
I see no reason why multi-cultural groups can't get along, in peacetime, or in times of chaos.

I just don't understand why people make statements like:

an overwhelming majority of the goths are "left leaning" cultural marxists, who also advocate diversity/multiculturalism, which, in turn, inevitably includes the destruction of Western civilization.

The destruction of western civilization?
Are you kidding?

What makes you think that multiculturalism leads to the destruction of society?
I am not saying society can't collapse. But I don't see why multiculturalism has
anything to do with it. If anything, it's better if we are multicultural. Look at
Germany or Japan in WW2. If you have a strong and unique culture, it makes
you think you are better than everyone else, and you go to war. If you are part
of a globally mixed culture, you are all working together. Like China. They
are huge. And powerful. I'd rather be part of working with China, and have
them be our friend, than to be totally separate and different from them,
and have them view us as an enemy. The more I hang out with people
of different cultures, the better I understand them, and the better we
get along. I doubt any white supremacists ever took the time to actually
try to make friends with people of other races. That's like me saying I
hate pizza, because it's Italian, and never trying it.

[aXa]

my last post was made with little time to expand on things and i gave it some thought after i posted it. i agree with what Raza partially agreed with me about.

personally, for me, i came to consider myself goth for the same reasons i would have considered myself a Romantic in earlier times. i see both movements as having alot of the same ideals. they both appreciate the darker and more negatively viewed aspects of things. in many ways, the Romantic Movement was a reaction to the Classicism of the period. in a similar way, you could also say that goth is likewise reactionary. it doesnt rebel for the sake of rebellion; it rebels for the sake of change.

[Mr Karl]

I've just thought of goth as what you get when you choose none of the above.....wich also includes not wearing colours

[Raza]

The destruction of western civilization?
Are you kidding?

What makes you think that multiculturalism leads to the destruction of society?

I think he means the destruction of western society in it's (current? past? imaginary?) 'pure' form, as a self-declared superior culture compared to the rest of the world.

Apparently, he's having trouble feeling like a member of the über-culture when people around him are voluntarily eating sushi and hooking up with foreigners. Prejudices like that cannot survive exposure to their objects.

[TheDeathKnight]

Mmmmm... Sushi!

[Velvet-Tongue]

The funny thing to me is modern western culture is all multicultural. Look at our movies, singers, art. All different races/genders/religions.

[Velvet-Tongue]

Also hell what Western culture do you want to keep? I think these aryan guys think Western culture is all greek poets, chivalrous knights and epic tales of Odin or something.

Every country has different cultures, the only thing incommon is they're white and mostly Christian. Is it a Christian thing? I dont even.

[TheDeathKnight]

I think it's funny how they posted then never came back.

[Solutrean]

Enclosed, please find a video herewith, on affirmative action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CftuJCHl9l4


After watching Dr. Duke's video on affirmative action, I have
proof that affirmative action in a Canadian teachers college (which shall remain nameless) is in fact racist against whites.

This Canadian teachers' college recently announced another few hundred more spaces 'exclusively' for aboriginals; one wonders why I, as a white person, was not accepted, if the university in fact HAD these few hundred spaces presumably "un-occupied"...but I digress...

Here is my experience:

I graduated with 'A' average, but because I didn't correctly answer the annoyingly nauseating question regarding "race and equality", I was refused entry to teachers college. (it's not what I answered, so much as what I didn't answer, or what was missing in my answer)

Yet they will take people who mindlessly regurgitate the ideological "equality koolaid" even though they only have the minimal C+ grades to get in. (and of course the fact they are not white) In fact, I know of such people of non-white races, who had a lot of difficulty in my program and they still got accepted into teachers college simply because they are NOT white.

Perhaps its just as well, because after re-thinking my application, why would I want to teach principles that I do not agree with? I do not want to teach something that is in fact a big lie. I think I would probably hate teaching if it were that way.

I think that I'm preaching to the choir, but, to reiterate, if any of you have children in public schools, I would urgently advise that you either home school, or find the most suitable, racially segregated private schools for your children's best interests. Because what they are teaching in public schools is not appropriate for white Europeans. Ironically, in terms of the so-called 'equality' policy, public schools do not provide any teaching of European culture or teach from a Euro-centric perspective (that's the one that's always left out).

Hence, instead of writing essays, (the most important skill, IMHO) they sit around having discussions about the 'other' races and cultures and praising how wonderful they are and how evil whites are....Umm, Yeah, right, ok.

This trend, unbelievably, continues into Universities where professors dictate that whites are a 'privileged' race...Now that is laughable. My father, as a white person, came to this country in 1958 and basically had a choice to make: get a job or starve to death. Contrast this to today's refugees (No, I do not need to mention today's immigrants, because, they have a tougher time getting into Canada than refugees do), who get free room and board, free language training, and free job skills training. Where was "Le governement du Canada" when my poor (white) European father needed them? So much for 'white privilege'... But I digress...

To correct these (liberal) professors' erroneous conception of the world, I think that a requisite is necessary for all future professors:

That they should spend a minimum three years working like a 'slug' in corporate America. This will surely change their one-sided perspective on 'race' because it forces them out of the academic 'dream land' and their one-sided opinions will be corrected or offset by the experiences of the real world...But I digress...

In university, I have experienced the perfect example of the dumbing down of education in North America. Just ask any first year professor at any university what the greatest problem is for first year students. They will all tell you that most first year students do not know even how to explicate a single idea in one paragraph, let alone being able to compose an essay. Perhaps laying off 300,000 (kool-aid) teachers is good after all...


I couldn't care less - I still want (and have a burning desire) to teach and I'm not going to let some communist liberal tell me that I can't teach because I have a mind of my own that refuses to conform. (oh, that's sooo Goth of me!) Being a music major and literature minor, who graduated 'summa cum laude', I'm fighting back by starting my own private school of music and poetry. And you can bet that this school will be 100 percent Euro-centric - no crass modernisms, Afrocentrisms, jazz, blues, modernism/postmodern-isms or any so called 'Other' (with a capital 'O') music.

Only traditional European music, literature, poetry, prose fiction and the history of European music/literature will be taught at MY school.

Having said that, and I never thought that I would say this, but I truly hope public schools continue to cut funding to their (western) arts/music/literature programs, so that I will benefit from their
loss.

Thus, I win on three fronts:
1. I get to teach from a European perspective.
2. I get to promote European culture.
3. (and least important) I become financially independent.

Teaching is not about making money and having a nice retirement, (as our current public system advocates); it's about making a difference in peoples lives, for example, giving people something to be proud of, like their European heritage.

And to all of you misguided liberal bureaucrats in teachers college, I have a special message for you:

You will NEVER stop me and my "Lyre of Orpheus" from teaching
and giving the gift of WESTERN EUROPEAN music to my white brethren!

As Shakespeare's King Lear said in his greatest moment:

"Howl, howl, howl! O, you are men of stones.
Had I your tongues and eyes, I'd use them so
That heaven's vault should crack." King Lear, V.III.263-265.

[Mr Karl]

how does that saying go ......those who can do, those who can't teach......

[Solutrean]

"How about you take your shit and get the fuck out."

Thank you for the civilized response. I'll be bigger and ignore that part and address the real issue at hand. When group A (i.e., the Negroes) don't follow the social contract, what happens to them hmm? Do you know who the NAACP and their constituents the Black panther party? You didn't now this did you?

So much for your "obedience" to the social contract. Yeah, right. Try explaining that to a savage.

[Solutrean]

Not really. If the current zeitgeist is multi-culti, or, in "simpler" terms, if it is POPULAR to praise multiculturalism, why aren't the white goths rejecting such ideologies simply because they are anti every thing. And yes, they preach that they are anti everything. So, the question still stands; and you have not provided an answer.

[Solutrean]

I love how the left throws words such as racists and nazis, and skin heads, with all the heavily laden pejorative connotations, in a pathetic attempt to shut down debate. But it will do you no good. You have still not addressed the issue, nor have you provided a solid defense against racial homogeneity. I'm still waiting for an answer; preferably one that is not laden with out dated left-wing buzzwords.

[Solutrean]

Because when you were in school, you learned "classical" marxism, not the marxism which shifted its efforts in its latter stages; did you view the videos I forwarded?

[Solutrean]

Lol, right, if Goths don't stick to one view point how can you endorse the status quo of multiculturalism? What? do you wake up one morning and decide multi-culti is the flavor of the day and then tomorrow you decide that you do not want to associate with some one who does not have the same skin tone as you? Man, these (self-hating white) goths are totally mind boggling...

Honestly, you need to have a lot more PRIDE on you forefathers achievements....Your grandfather must be spinning in his grave to hear you talk like that....

[Solutrean]

Yeah, judging from the "hat", I kind of figured the same conclusion.

[Solutrean]

Lol! Your not making any sense. Apart from your attempt at big worded leftism, Here is your definition of counterculture:

"the objective is to find beauty in things carrying a negative connotation of some kind in the mainstream".

Right. So, counterculture endorses the negative aspects of say, black on white crimes. Can I ask you a question? Do you find beauty in the raping of a white female by a black male? Oh, wait, maybe this is your child hood fantasy of being ***** by a black male right? Do I detect a Freudian slip here?

So by accepting multi culturalism, you are automatically accepting the **** of our white females? Is that it? You do realize that these savages cannot govern themselves right? that's why a squad car is needed in every high school right?

[Solutrean]

"What makes you think that multiculturalism leads to the destruction of society?"

If you cannot see this, in terms of not only racial, but political and social development, then you are in for a very rude awakening...

[Solutrean]

"it doesnt rebel for the sake of rebellion; it rebels for the sake of change."

Right. What kind of change are you referring to?

[Solutrean]

It has nothing to do with superiority; by the way, I like your user name: RAZA. Isn't that a mexican racist organization who is against whites in the USA? An organization who has openly called for racial war against whites in the USA? Stay tuned, mr/ms RAZA, we have our "sights" on you...

And I'm wondering why the people on this board do not see the blatant racism against whites...

[Solutrean]

"modern western culture is all multicultural"

Since when? When the Jews who control MSM said it is so? I don't think you even know what hollywood was like before the JEWS took over. Yuo need to study history from an unbiased perspective. This is another major problem...

[Solutrean]

"I think these aryan guys think Western culture is all greek poets, chivalrous knights and epic tales of Odin or something."

You see? use a word like "aryan" with its negative connotations, and it automatically sways public opinion. But since you are totally unaware of western history, thanks to the degenerate frankfurt school and their brainwashed anti-white proponents, like yourself, you will NEVER know what western culture was meant to be.

[Solutrean]

get to the point, or are you drunk already?

[Solutrean]

Here's another example of the blunders of diversity and the degenerate profs. there-in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxwW_lyeZCo

I'm looking at you "Raza"; what do you have to say for yourself?

Imperialism and capitalism? These are inventions of your own school of thought; your own self-hating anti-white scholars gave them these ideas...

Lol, "what a fool believes"...

[Solutrean]

Solutrean hypothesis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maziRFPYU14

BBC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YRMZxd_pCE

[Solutrean]

To all the anti white advocates:

You would destroy angels like this phenotype:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmlQSxK3J6o

In order to advance your degenerate marxist egalitarian philosophy....

Wow, just wow,...

[Mr Karl]

alright.......I understand what other people are trying to say through you but what exactly do you think about it all? Who do you really wish would disappear when your sitting there alone in front of your magic button that doesn't work?

Just so you know, the world of humans is a messed up place. So either spend your time focusing on finding solutions to the real problems or waste your time on the schoolyard issues like who's picking on who......things like that are actual creations put there to keep all the people like you busy in a nice little sectioned off part of reality.

To be human is to hate.........the last freedom the individual has is the right to choose where to direct that hatred..........now tell me why is that the first thing humans tend to give away?

[Buster Friendly]

. So either spend your time focusing on finding solutions to the real problems or waste MY time

I think what this asshat is looking for is a final solution.

Fuck western civilization.

We're fuckin' GOTHS for fuck sake... as in visi-GOTH. ostro-GOTH.

BURN BURN BURN!

The nihilism of punk begat the decadence of goth.

Fuck the world, let it burn, and let me fuck in the firelight for fuck's sake, or go fuck yourself.

So this shit simple monkey likes throwing around "leftist", and "frankfart school" and "marxist", get the fuckin' beck outcha mouff son. Sheeeeeeeeet.

Diddly shit!

[Buster Friendly]

To all the anti white advocates:

You would destroy angels like this phenotype:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmlQSxK3J6o



(I betcha a reichsmark that that messican is whiter than your fat ass LOL.)
In order to advance your degenerate marxist egalitarian philosophy....

Wow, just wow,...

what?

that fat cow?

I'd destroy her for some cheerios, and a laugh.

You are seriously in the wrong fuckin' place.

Now then as a wise man once said GTFO BIYOTCH!


(I betcha a reichsmark that that messican is whiter than your fat ass LOL.)

[Mr Karl]

[aXa]

sorry, i stopped reading when i realized that you had posted, what? 16 times in a row? either a good number of posts got deleted or something. either way, it aint worth even bothering.

ps. what does all of that diatribe have to even remotely do you goth?

[Buster Friendly]

why can't I see the second page?