Marvel Killed Captain America ???

[ForrestBlack]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/book...ica/index.html

That is just not right, and now is a particularly bad time for them to have done this. I think it teaches exactly the wrong lesson. Martyring a true patriot while he fights for independence, against institutionalized government control, in today's day and age is something I'm really not comfortable with at all. What are your thoughts?

Even if he's not really dead, I still think it's not cool.

[ScarlettSin]

And I quote my friend Randy

"When did killing Captain America seem like a good idea? Oh, right, when Marvel started hiring hacks."

Yep that pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

S

[Black Spiral Dancer]

He will be back. DC killed of Superman a few years back, only to have him find out it was a mild case of death and he got better, they crippled Batman only to have him recover. It's a ploy to get people to go "Oh No, you can't do that! I'd better start reading the comics to see if they've really done it!"

[OliX]

what will be comics name be now?
"Without Captain America" featuring supervilians feasting on poor people without anyone to save them
sounds fun

[Buster Friendly]

who gives a flying fuck???

quick how many real life soldiers died in iraq today?

won't see that shit on the front page of a newspaper, and cnn doesn't care either.

but kill off a funny book character...and OMG!!!

real people dying for a bullshit war, and comics make the front fucking page (new york post today, a piece of shit rag, but there it was.)

who fucking cares fanboy?

[KilLAtomiK]

who gives a flying fuck???

quick how many real life soldiers died in iraq today?

won't see that shit on the front page of a newspaper, and cnn doesn't care either.

but kill off a funny book character...and OMG!!!

real people dying for a bullshit war, and comics make the front fucking page (new york post today, a piece of shit rag, but there it was.)

who fucking cares fanboy?

If Captain America dies the terrorists win


im not big into comics, but evry now and then i pick up a book and anything with Captain America is good reading. plus ive always liked the idea of a superhero representing an entire nation (suck it superman) and he kicks ass at the Marvel Vs STreet Fighter videogame. I hope it all ends up being like a dream in the plotline and he never realy dies

[GnArKiLL]

who gives a flying fuck???

quick how many real life soldiers died in iraq today?

won't see that shit on the front page of a newspaper, and cnn doesn't care either.

but kill off a funny book character...and OMG!!!

real people dying for a bullshit war, and comics make the front fucking page (new york post today, a piece of shit rag, but there it was.)

who fucking cares fanboy?

umm

welcome to america?????

[StolenName]

umm

welcome to america?????

I thought Captain America died years ago ... like ... many years ago.

To my knowledge the only place Captain America was STILL alive was in Marvel v Capcom or V SNK video games.

Oh well, learn something new everyday.

[mollycase]

who gives a flying fuck???

quick how many real life soldiers died in iraq today?

won't see that shit on the front page of a newspaper, and cnn doesn't care either.

but kill off a funny book character...and OMG!!!

real people dying for a bullshit war, and comics make the front fucking page (new york post today, a piece of shit rag, but there it was.)

who fucking cares fanboy?

The point of a Marvel cycle like this one is to make commentary about world events in a way which will communicate the underlying importance of our personal freedoms in a palatable way.

[StolenName]

Actually, after reading the story i think the real crime is not in killing CA, cause I couldn't give a rats really, but it sounds like the DODGIEST fucking story EVER.

Jesus. And "mortally wounded" pfffft. In a comic that's like "ouchies i tripped and scraped my knee".

[Kidthorazine]

Captain America is one of the few truely human Marvel heroes (although he was treated with super soldier formula), so honestly i think he at least needs to age somewhat, also he's been "killed" by Red Skull before, hell probably be back, Marvel likes to do that i think most of the X-Men have "died" at least once Jean Grey has died multiple times.

[Kidthorazine]

OK after actually reading a summary of all the shit that lead up to this, im just going to pray that the entire Civil War thing gets retconned out of existance, thankfully i didnt buy any of that garbage.

[Buster Friendly]

what the fuck do personal freedoms, and their palatablility have to fuck do with placing the 'death' of a character from a 2-D funny book, over the sacrafices that real human beings are making, both american, and iraqi (y'know, 'cause like were killing the fuck out of them too y'know. and they're doing an even better job on each other....)????????????

people in this country have their priorities seriously fucked up.

i hope the board and CEO's of haliburton ass **** cap's cold, moldering, stinky rotten corpse in hell.

http://www.legacy.com/baltimoresun/Soldier/Home.aspx?

[CherryCola]

thats bull you shouldn't able to just kill captin america...he should be protected..like pandas and whales.
ive never been a huge fan of the classic style superheros but i love cpatin america. i was just looking at action figures the other day.
i dont think it will change the world but i agree its a mistake to kill him off. His cult status and what he symbolises is wide spread and means alot to a lot of people.

i know a few people who believe in being patriotic but dont trust the governments etc. and what they do is really the best for the country so to them figures like captin america become symbolism of true patriotism

[ForrestBlack]

who gives a flying fuck???
quick how many real life soldiers died in iraq today?
won't see that shit on the front page of a newspaper, and cnn doesn't care either.
but kill off a funny book character...and OMG!!!
real people dying for a bullshit war, and comics make the front fucking page (new york post today, a piece of shit rag, but there it was.)
who fucking cares fanboy?

Buster, if I mention something I do care about, don't try to tell me what you think I don't care about. America is founded on principles and ideals. Those ideals and principles are bigger and more important than any sitting president or even government for that matter. They are the standard that the government and its leaders should be held accountable to or at least measured against. This is an area we as a people have gotten too lax about, perhaps due to apathy, perhaps due to fear. But, holding these principles is core to our nation's soul, and I can not express how important it is to our future that we maintain connection to them. The common man isn't terribly likely to read the memoirs of our forefathers and they are not terribly likely to casually brush up on the finer points of political theory and history as it relates to our founding ideals and principals. But, pop culture can pose some of those questions and frame some of the perspectives and/or interpretations in a way that can speak to the average citizen. Those soldiers hopefully fight and unfortunately die to support those ideals, therefore longstanding culturally ingrained symbols of those ideals are actually very pertinent to the foundation of what those people are giving their lives to support. A comic book character is obviously not more important, by many measures, but they are not insignificant. There are people who joined the military because of symbolic patriotic characters like Captain America and I think it's important that current and future generations have the ideological allegory as part of their pop culture influence.

[mollycase]

what the fuck do personal freedoms, and their palatablility have to fuck do with placing the 'death' of a character from a 2-D funny book, over the sacrafices that real human beings are making, both american, and iraqi (y'know, 'cause like were killing the fuck out of them too y'know. and they're doing an even better job on each other....)????????????

people in this country have their priorities seriously fucked up.

i hope the board and CEO's of haliburton ass **** cap's cold, moldering, stinky rotten corpse in hell.

http://www.legacy.com/baltimoresun/Soldier/Home.aspx?

No offense, but have you ever read a comic book? They are not "funny books" and have not been for longer than living memory.

Nobody is valuing fictional death over real death.

The point of the series, in case you missed it, is to make understanding the necessity of freedoms a palatable lesson. If a lesson is not palatable, then most people will not digest it. One cannot just yell about how something is bad. One has to express it in a format other people will be able to understand.

This particular Marvel cycle is based on a combination of current events and the rise of The Third Reich in Nazi Germany. If you do not understand why it is important to teach people what can happen when they sacrifice their freedoms, I have no help for you.

[Buster Friendly]

since when does being a halfwit have anything to do with patriotism?

obviously the fucking new york fucking post DID value the fictional death of a 3rd rate cartoon has been over the daily deaths of our real life service people, and the deaths of civilians, and even journalists.

no offense molly, but captian america has sucked since the mid 80's. really, as a comic book it was just so much bullshit.

and forrest, usually i give you the benefit of the doubt, but fucking c'mon. comic book characters more important than the criminal actions of sitting presidents? reflect for a moment on whether or not i give a rat's ass about what you may, or may not care about, let alone would try to tell you such a thing.

only a nitwit would care about this bullshit given the dire emergency our fucking glorious country faces at the moment.

we'll all have alot of laughs reading about how reed richards is a child molestor from gitmo at this rate.

[Trotter]

I would like to add "fuck fuckity fuck fuck"

[Morning Glory]

Fuck America.

Seriously though, if they want to make this some kind of symbolic political thing, maybe now is a good time to kill off Cap'n.

American superheroes have always represented the ego and jingoism of the culture that spawned them. They use unaccountable violence as their sole means of handling conflicts whether those are commies, good old fashion lower-class crime, the results of science gone wrong, or racist caricatures of whoever the US is at war with at the time. Captain America was a propaganda technique to get Americans to support a war that was unpopular and many people felt that we didn't belong in... and while he may be applauded for inspiring people to overcome apathy, while he was fighting the Nefarious Red Skull, in real life we were dropping bombs on churches and schools.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

S.H.I.E.L.D. have probably got some of his DNA so they might clone a new Cap, or maybe what they'll do is convert the character U.S.Agent (a character they made that looked like the Cap) into the new Captain America.

Thet'll have some plan.

[Amelia G]

Hey kids, please remember to express your opinions, no matter how opposed to one another they are, without name-calling. The idea is to exchange ideas and perspectives and maybe change other people's minds and name-calling does not accomplish that.

Other than that, my two cents is that I think it is important to consider the role of art in society and how art can function to shape the world around it.

[CherryCola]

Other than that, my two cents is that I think it is important to consider the role of art in society and how art can function to shape the world around it.

hell yes..i agree with that and who ever said comics are "funny books" whos to rate one style of litriture above an other?

[ScarlettSin]

You know reading this thread has given me a different perspective on the whole "dead captain" thingy. The character of Captain America was created, in my opinion, to embody the truths and justice that America itself is founded on right? Just a shot in the dark. Well, if the American ideal has deteriorated to the point where national news coverage cares more about an ink and paper hero's death than a flesh and blood hero's life and death (ie our men and women in the middle east, our fire fighters and police officers) than doesn't it make sense that if the principles that the character was based on are dead, doesn't the character himself die?

Just my two cents.

S

[KilLAtomiK]

i think some of you guys are reading to much into this, i dont think the article ever stated that a fictional characters death is more important news than the deaths of real people, however it is big enough news that they report it seing as how Captain America is a popular character thats been around for a few decades, enough time to affect plenty of people

[Kidthorazine]

actually hes been around for over 60 years. This honestly doesnt bother me too much, cause its just capping off the total farce that was the marvel civil war story arc. Im also pretty sure hell be around for whatever big "event" marvel has planned for this summer., since the marvel civil war was just a set up for what will happen this summer, so it pretty much had to end on a dark note.

[DeviantMommy]

The point of a Marvel cycle like this one is to make commentary about world events in a way which will communicate the underlying importance of our personal freedoms in a palatable way.

Other than that, my two cents is that I think it is important to consider the role of art in society and how art can function to shape the world around it.

You know reading this thread has given me a different perspective on the whole "dead captain" thingy. The character of Captain America was created, in my opinion, to embody the truths and justice that America itself is founded on right? Just a shot in the dark. Well, if the American ideal has deteriorated to the point where national news coverage cares more about an ink and paper hero's death than a flesh and blood hero's life and death (ie our men and women in the middle east, our fire fighters and police officers) than doesn't it make sense that if the principles that the character was based on are dead, doesn't the character himself die?

I think all 3 of these statements make a very good point. I don't think this is about CNN caring more about "funny-book" characters than American soldiers. We all know CNN isn't exactly in charge of what appears on the news or not,am I right? This is a story about a comic book hero...a fluff piece,perfectly safe. But it's not really just about a comic book hero..hell,I didn't even care for Capt. America,but I can appriciate the social commentary implied here. In many ways the American ideal has been dieing for a long time..but w/ the emergence of the good old patriot act I think our freedoms are in jeodardy in a way that not many of us have ever expierianced before.

Comics are an art form,like it or not. And they are not just for kids anymore,I know many,many adults who are crazy about comics. And alot of comics,probably a good majority,contain social commentary on all sorts of wars and movements and revolutions throughout history,not to mention alot of other important issues. Now,just personally,I think it's a good thing..reaching a much broader audience w/ these important issues..young people especially,comics are much more exciting then the nightly news.

And back to Capt. America.... I'll let Morning Glory take it from here as I feel the same way...

Fuck America.

Seriously though, if they want to make this some kind of symbolic political thing, maybe now is a good time to kill off Cap'n.

American superheroes have always represented the ego and jingoism of the culture that spawned them. They use unaccountable violence as their sole means of handling conflicts whether those are commies, good old fashion lower-class crime, the results of science gone wrong, or racist caricatures of whoever the US is at war with at the time. Captain America was a propaganda technique to get Americans to support a war that was unpopular and many people felt that we didn't belong in... and while he may be applauded for inspiring people to overcome apathy, while he was fighting the Nefarious Red Skull, in real life we were dropping bombs on churches and schools.

[Buster Friendly]

We all know CNN isn't exactly in charge of what appears on the news or not,am I right? .

What the fuck are you talking about?

cnn isn't in control of what they choose to cover?

cnn isn't in control of what items they decide are news worthy, and where they place them on their own broadcasts?

of course they control their own fucking content.

that's why the new york fucking post put this shit on the front page, and never mention the daily, and monthly body count.

news outlets determine what is, and is not news, and what level of attention they're going to give a story.

[DeviantMommy]

And you think the government has no control of what is and isn't on the news?
I wish the news was unfiltered...that would be the day.
Seeing body counts of dead US soldiers isn't exactly the best way to get people to support the war is it?

[GnArKiLL]

And you think the government has no control of what is and isn't on the news?
I wish the news was unfiltered...that would be the day.
Seeing body counts of dead US soldiers isn't exactly the best way to get people to support the war is it?

and thats why we have

http://www.liveleak.com/?ogr=1

[Morning Glory]

Interestingly enough, CNN is owned by Time Warner. Among it's many media outlets include DC Comics, the major rival and competetor against Marvel Comics (the company that Captain America belongs to.)

[Morning Glory]

Also, although I did really bash on Cap don't take that in any way as a disrespect to his creator Jack Kirby. The guy is a legend and I do think that his intention was to inspire people to stand up against fascism, even if it was a bit of naivete to not see how it could lead to just that very thing when the shoe is on the other foot. And an interesting foot note to the whole thing was that his stories were so successful as propaganda that the Nazis put him on their hit list, and that only made him more persistent to keep putting them out. You gotta give him props for that.

[Kidthorazine]

i dont get why people are bitching about this getting news coverage, CNN covers lots of "irrelevant" stuff, if this made the front page of the new york times or something then i would see cause for concern. The new york post thing may have been a little much, but maybe it was a slow news day?

[Kidthorazine]

Also, although I did really bash on Cap don't take that in any way as a disrespect to his creator Jack Kirby. The guy is a legend and I do think that his intention was to inspire people to stand up against fascism, even if it was a bit of naivete to not see how it could lead to just that very thing when the shoe is on the other foot. And an interesting foot note to the whole thing was that his stories were so successful as propaganda that the Nazis put him on their hit list, and that only made him more persistent to keep putting them out. You gotta give him props for that.

Actually, the whole plot that led up to Captain Americas supposed death dealt with him fighting against the US government which he felt had crossed the line and was abusing its power.

[Janiac02]

What the fuck are you talking about?

cnn isn't in control of what they choose to cover?

cnn isn't in control of what items they decide are news worthy, and where they place them on their own broadcasts?

of course they control their own fucking content.

that's why the new york fucking post put this shit on the front page, and never mention the daily, and monthly body count.

news outlets determine what is, and is not news, and what level of attention they're going to give a story.

If your goal here is to use the word fuck as many times in a sentence as you can, I would consider perhaps punctuating each sentence with the word. FUCK!
See how much more effective that is?

[Janiac02]

I might be the only one, but I've heard tons of war coverage, body counts included, for both American and Iraqi people. I don't see anything wrong with also covering other things in the news. Not to mention, the more continuously you see body counts, the more desensitized to violence you become. I don't neccesarily think that has anything to do with the government filtering the news, not that I'm saying they have no pull.
I'd also like to say that it's ok to care about other things that are going on in the world, no matter how insignificant they may seem to another person. This thread was started about Captain America being killed.Obviously people are going to respond to that subject. If you want to talk about soldiers dying in Iraq, feel free to start another thread, and I'm willing to bet people would be passionate about that.

[seeker]

I'm an Australian, another country sending military personnel to Iraq, so I may view this issue differently than americans.

I feel that if the USA is represtented by a comic character, no matter the quality of the art work, it does not say a lot about society. If people need someone to represtent their beliefs why don't they choose a human? It seems the people have come to depend on another or in this case a comic character to act for them rather than being involed themselves.

Is this devaluation of the self to representation by a comic character a disappointing growth in apathy?

[Janiac02]

Is this devaluation of the self to representation by a comic character a disappointing growth in apathy?

Comics aren't the only type of art Americans use to express themselves. I wouldn't even say it's the primary type. We are, in fact, backwards in many ways, but I think expressing yourself in any type if media is a wonderful thing. And that said...Captain America was at least human-like, or is that not what you were getting at?

[seeker]

An excellent essay on reality is Travels in Hyperreality by Umberto Eco. It concerns itself with American society and its fantasy environment which give a culture that is more fictionalised than ever.

[it has been many years since I studied this book]

This book came to me though with this belief you have in a fictional character and its support in a society.

I have nothing against fictional support beliefs, just look at religion, but I feel that what some of you are expressing is a little to extreme.

But then against this is just my 2cents worth.

[Janiac02]

An excellent essay on reality is Travels in Hyperreality by Umberto Eco. It concerns itself with American society and its fantasy environment which give a culture that is more fictionalised than ever.

[it has been many years since I studied this book]

This book came to me though with this belief you have in a fictional character and its support in a society.

I have nothing against fictional support beliefs, just look at religion, but I feel that what some of you are expressing is a little to extreme.

But then against this is just my 2cents worth.

Oh I'll agree with that whole-heartedly, and I don't follow any type of comics, or even have an affinity for Captain America. Really, my main argument here is that even when there are more important things happening, it's ok to spend a little time focused on something superficial. As for your statement(s), America is very nostalgic, and that causes some pretty extreme reactions to things like this. I really don't know anyone who compares comics to real life situations as they happen. They might influence some people's way of thinking, but I promise the nation hasn't gone into mourning over this. This is just something many people enjoy, and something that has been around this long will get a good strong debate going I'm not sure why I keep talking, but I'm all for a good debate, myself...

[Satiate]

After reading this thread, as a whole... WOW

First...

To Forrest, being a comic book fan... I’ll agree with you... Though as I’ve gotten older, I tend to stick to mainly with X-Men out of the marvel camp as any main section, with all of it's offshoots... Personally, as I’ve gotten older I’ve become someone who tends to follow artists now... And being a David Mack/kabuki nut... That's my main true love for comics these days... But like some people have stated on here, I believe Captain America will be back and I think the writers on the story line are doing to bring attention to other issues… Politically, not just in comics As Amelia later stated, I think it’s interesting sometimes how people use art to convey certain idea/ideals, and what got me into comics as a kid was the idea that anything was possible… The idea that you can improve a situation, even it’s via a radioactive spider or mutant genes… I’m interested myself to see what they will do when they bring him back, though I’m not a huge fan of CA, and haven’t bought a recent issue of that series in ages…

Second… and I'm sorry, I may get in trouble for this... But wow, yeah, I must go here...

I’m all for social commentary... Editorial written type responses... Hell, being the jack ass that I am, I’m always up for some satire… But the manner of which you, Buster, have responded on a message board that talks about such a huge variety of issues... From government to entertainment… You've not only taken what I feel to be a tad, shall I say, overzealous stance, but came across sounding down right RUDE and patronizing in your response with your name calling by in some many ways calling Forrest a nitwit, not directly, but indirectly, in your retort to his response... He responded to you intelligently… But just because someone’s opinion differs from yours, it doesn’t mean that they are stupid… In fact, that type of response of yours mirrors any fanatical Republican party member, you spent your two cents on here insulting… I find your response flawed, imperfect and wow, out of order… Because out of a lot of people on here, Forrest happens to be someone who votes and is politically minded… Someone who actually has a heart for community… I am still in awe of how heavy your step must be to carry balls that big to respond to someone who asks for social commentary and your idea of “intelligence” is to rant…

If you are so ready to froth at the mouth with your beliefs in politics, to just snap and act like Donkey Kong sprung and strung, like you just did by showing your ass, verbally, then why didn’t you go on a fully charged rant on the thread of “Colon hydrotherapy,” because our country does seem to be full of shit and need a good through cleansing… Or why even mention anything about Salma Hayek as you did in the thread of “Satanico Pandemonium,” because well, she’s openly admitted in interviews how she pretty much hates white people ala Lauren Hill… Why even waste your time mentioning videos of cats on youtube (which well, I can go on rants about with youtube being well, what you tube is) when you can go on another POLITICALLY charged rant and find more people to insult? People like you who attack as you did unprovoked, scare me on a social level. It’s blind in it’s desire to be taken seriously and listened to. It doesn’t open up for discussions of debate. It lowers standards and shames people who must read through it.

This message board is for debate and exchange of ideas… This board is create community and open doors of discussion of all walks of life… It’s also a board the encourages free thinkers to express their opinion… It’s here to ask for varied opinions and open minds… It’s not here to go and slam on anyone who doesn’t think exactly like you… How is telling someone they are a “nitwit” if they don’t think like you show signs of superiority in any debate? It’s no longer a debate when you retort in that manner, it’s simple an act of aggression provoking an argument. It’s not making a level playing field of commentary; it’s negating all gray issues. It’s making issues black and white. It’s fanatical… It’s suppressive… It’s as bad as any censorship that you accuse CNN of condoning… Actually, no it’s worse, because you are lashing at your community WHO AGREE WITH YOU… You are attacking the wrong people… What you are doing is an act of friendly fire, man…

You’ve stated some things that others may/may not agree with, but you know what? Insulting people with inflammatory remarks doesn’t get any other point across other than making you look like a hypocrite… If you can take the time to talk about Salma Hayek looking close to perfection, well, I guess Forrest can take the time to write about a comic book character effects him… Your opinions may be right, but your stance, with me, is wrong… Because it looks like the pot is calling the kettle black…

Slamming someone, for the sake of slamming someone, doesn’t make you look superior… It makes you look unintelligent and ill equipped to retort with debate… How you reacted, well, it was that of a selfish child throwing a tantrum… Not an adult with a well-formed opinion who’s open to discussion and debate… To be honest, reading your responses… It kind of embarrasses me, because it’s that type of mentality, that really makes the “normal” people pre-judge me… But hey, whom am I kidding? You’ll slam on me next and call me Republican or hell, maybe Hitler, because I disagree with your approach… Not your ideas behind your intent, but your demeanor in which you stated it… I guess I can say I’m glad you’re not a moderator on the board…

Why does this remind me of you…

“Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose.”
“It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.”
-Joseph Paul Goebbels

Now quit fighting your peers, and engage intelligently those who deserve it.