Do you believe people can change?

[Amelia G]

Do you believe people can change?

[Mr Karl]

people can't really change who they are to themselves..............they can change who they are to other people though

[Morning Glory]

good answer karl.

I'd say that people can change to a degree, and in some cases they may even be able to radically change... but for most people they never will at all.

It seems to be that people are imprinted with most of thier personality traits at a young age, both through societial programming and to some extent evolutionary imperatives that requires a great deal of self-awareness and control to be able to alter.

[mystoo]

Absolutely. People get older, get wiser, get bitter.
Ok that's the negative side but sure people can change, even for the better.

[Raza]

People change constantly, even to themselves. It tends to be gradual and unintentional, though.

[OliX]

Yes, up till age of 30. After 30, you're stuck with who you are for the rest of your life.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Yes, up till age of 30. After 30, you're stuck with who you are for the rest of your life.

No...Actually after 30, I think you tend to start being laid back more and more as years go on. You usually have experienced enough shit that when more shit comes your way, you don't freak out anymore. You know it's just more shit and it will pass.

[Raza]

No...Actually after 30, I think you tend to start being laid back more and more as years go on. You usually have experienced enough shit that when more shit comes your way, you don't freak out anymore. You know it's just more shit and it will pass.

There seems to be plenty of people that only get more and more bitter and sensitive to shit coming their way as they get older, though.

[TheDeathKnight]

Yes, but it usually takes a long time.

For instance, when I was a young teenager, I was fairly messy.
But over the years I learned lessons, mainly by letting things
get really bad, and having horrible messes to clean up.
So I slowly started being a cleaner person. Now I see
young people with disgusting apartments, and I wonder
if they will ever change, or be a slob all their life.
But I realize I changed. But it took years. It wasn't instant.

So if you meet someone who has an annoying trait,
and you hope they will change, don't hold your breath.

Like if someone gets in a lot of fights...
They may need to get put in the hospital multiple times
before they realize fighting is not always the best option.
But it won't be easy to change, or overnight. But if you look
at people over 10 years, you will see they have changed.
But a lot of people want others to change right away.
Like in a few weeks or a few months. But it takes years...

[incog]

I have definitely changed over the years.

[OliX]

No...Actually after 30, I think you tend to start being laid back more and more as years go on. You usually have experienced enough shit that when more shit comes your way, you don't freak out anymore. You know it's just more shit and it will pass.

I just stated a scientific fact.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

I just stated a scientific fact.

Science is actually factual? I tend to believe 1 +1 = 2 is factual and that's about it. Everything else is up for discussion. Olix, how how many Scientific "facts" are proved not facts after all, every year?

[OliX]

See, you're not changing your opinion. Are you over 30? =)

[Morning Glory]

Science is actually factual? I tend to believe 1 +1 = 2 is factual and that's about it. Everything else is up for discussion. Olix, how how many Scientific "facts" are proved not facts after all, every year?

don't listen to him, he's gone senile in his old age.

[OliX]

lol

Actually, brain reorganizes his paths last time around age of 30 (age 23-24 before that).

It doesn't make any new connection but it loses old connections that you didn't used for longer time making more processing power available for actions you normally are used to do. You don't get more stupid after 30. You tend to think clearer and faster due to that reorganization but your learning ability suffers.

[OliX]

It was believed that brain takes longer time than it is actually true to adapt to new habits. 2-3 weeks.

It takes actually 5 days for brain to adapt to new habits so that our subconsciousness automatically says "yes" to the thought.

For example, let's say that you hate washing dishes. Force you self 5 days in a row to do them and just don't think of it as a hustle. After one week you'll be doing it automatically and without a problem. Just a raw example.

I can talk about brain and our subconsciousness for weeks

[Raza]

Science is actually factual? I tend to believe 1 +1 = 2 is factual and that's about it. Everything else is up for discussion. Olix, how how many Scientific "facts" are proved not facts after all, every year?

Trooth; science brings theories, not facts. Math does too, though. Observation brings facts, but doesn't know what they are.

Contrary to popular self indulgence, humanity is fairly fact-deprived.

[OliX]

Math is a fact. Math is actually universal language. You can describe everything in numbers and equations. We've learned this from observations of theories we had.

Easy as this: Theory->Observation->Fact

[Ajax Knucklebones]

lol

Actually, brain reorganizes his paths last time around age of 30 (age 23-24 before that).

It doesn't make any new connection but it loses old connections that you didn't used for longer time making more processing power available for actions you normally are used to do. You don't get more stupid after 30. You tend to think clearer and faster due to that reorganization but your learning ability suffers.

Oh...I'm the first one to say that after 30, everything is a slow downhill race. My memory is definietly not what it used to be and I'm only 39. But...I still believe people's attitudes and understandings and "Ideas" keep changing until you crap out. I believe it has more to do with nurture than nature. I can tell you from experience, my dad is NOT the same man he was when he was 40. Not because he's getting older...More because we never stop living life until we die and even if that life is not as productive as it once was, experiences are never-ending and will always change your thoughts about who you are and the life you live and the attitude you have.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Math is a fact. Math is actually universal language. You can describe everything in numbers and equations. We've learned this from observations of theories we had.

Easy as this: Theory->Observation->Fact

Don't forget to throw in the observation part that it's observation + bias that equates fact.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

don't listen to him, he's gone senile in his old age.

What 'cha say, Sonny?

[Mr Karl]

For example, let's say that you hate washing dishes. Force you self 5 days in a row to do them and just don't think of it as a hustle. After one week you'll be doing it automatically and without a problem. Just a raw example.


)

that doesn't mean you've changed in any way.................you'll still hate washing dishes and you'll only be doing them so they get clean

[Aza]

As with so many other things, it depends almost entirely on the person. Some people are more adaptable than others... or more impressionable... or more indecisive.

As another representative of the 30-something demographic, I can admit that it's more difficult to change than it used to be... or perhaps less tempting would be a better way to put it. Then again, my personality and the essence of who I am has changed very little since I graduated high school. My goals and definitions of personal success solidified in college, but they were more-or-less there already.

Still, I remain as adaptable and open-minded as I ever was, and can still "change" successfully when my situation or environment requires me to. In the last year since I've been living with K, I can name using the fingers on three hands the differences in my personal behavior. I've shed some of my old habits and adopted new ones, not because I wanted to or even in spite of not wanting to; it just sort of happened. In fact, that's happened to some degree with each woman I've ever seriously dated. Likewise, during the time I spent living with my ex's kids, my habits and behavior changed drastically. In fact, I still insist that raising children is the single most eye-opening, self-maturing, and rewarding learning experience anyone can ever hope to give themselves!

It's very true that the vast majority of significantly life-changing and self-solidifying events, such as getting married and having children and all that yuppie shit, generally takes place before or around age 30, but it's taking it a bit far to insist that everyone over that age is incapable of change. I even know two or three senior citizens who are still capable of embracing the new, and it gives me great hope for the longevity of my own adaptability.

The trick, as I see it, is knowing when a particular change or set of changes is beneficial for self-betterment, and when it's a detrimental compromise of who you are.

[Morning Glory]

Big Brother says 1 + 1 = 3

[Camby Savelle]

I have to believe that I am currently an example of change.

[OliX]

that doesn't mean you've changed in any way.................you'll still hate washing dishes and you'll only be doing them so they get clean

Wrong... you might be hating doing it, BUT you'll be more loving the feeling of clean kitchen afterwards.

Those "hating" and "loving" doing stuff is depended on our subconsciousness. If we repeatedly do things one same way over period of time it creates paths in our brain. In between two options we are going to chose one that's more familiar to us.

Even in between two totally new options we are choosing one that our subconsciousness recognized more familiar. If we had to think about which way to chose, for example to say simple yes or no to a date, we would spent hours analyzing and comparing things to see what option would be best for us. That's why we have subconsciousness, to bring fast decisions. In fact our subconsciousness and our consciousness have totaly different personality. Subc. speaks through our body language. So... making new connections as in creating new habbits gets harder as older you are but it isn't impossible.

[OliX]

Oh...I'm the first one to say that after 30, everything is a slow downhill race. My memory is definietly not what it used to be and I'm only 39. But...I still believe people's attitudes and understandings and "Ideas" keep changing until you crap out. I believe it has more to do with nurture than nature. I can tell you from experience, my dad is NOT the same man he was when he was 40. Not because he's getting older...More because we never stop living life until we die and even if that life is not as productive as it once was, experiences are never-ending and will always change your thoughts about who you are and the life you live and the attitude you have.

Well... your personality developed in what you have been before 30. If you have been a seeker, and searching for answers and changing opinions before 30, you'll keep doing those things even after last reorganization. If you are a professor at university for example, your whole live you've spent learning, you'll keep that learning ability because you used it a lot and you're still using it. You get it?

[toxicat]

My evidence is all anecdotal, but I think that's a crock, OliX.

[Bikerpunk]

Nope. Always been a generally hated douche with no friends: always will be.

[OliX]

Eh toxicat, you don't need to accept it, I never asked someone to do it. I was just stating facts from journals and books that I remembered.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Well... your personality developed in what you have been before 30. If you have been a seeker, and searching for answers and changing opinions before 30, you'll keep doing those things even after last reorganization. If you are a professor at university for example, your whole live you've spent learning, you'll keep that learning ability because you used it a lot and you're still using it. You get it?

I could see that.

[OliX]

My problem is explaining stuff. Understanding how stuff and people work is one thing but explaining it is totally another thing, and that's where my problem starts. Gotta work on that one.

One thing I've noticed is that people I work with don't need lots of explaining because we all think alike. You just give them clues and basic principles of the idea and everything else they'll figure out almost instantly.

[KessM]

change is just kind of inherent and it all depends on someones personal definition- this is one of those impossible discussions because everyone is going to be thinking about one concept in a different way.

[OliX]

Maybe we're all right

[KessM]

entirely possible :P

[OliX]

Hey, your tongue is sticking out... it kinda freaks me out a bit O_o.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

My problem is explaining stuff. Understanding how stuff and people work is one thing but explaining it is totally another thing, and that's where my problem starts. Gotta work on that one.

One thing I've noticed is that people I work with don't need lots of explaining because we all think alike. You just give them clues and basic principles of the idea and everything else they'll figure out almost instantly.

I think explaining "in person" about an idea, story, or fact is alot easier than doing it in writing. Just the fact that by looking at a person's expressions, you can tell if they actually understand what they're saying or not. If they look like they have an expression of a zombie, you can back up and tell it a different way until they "get it".

[OliX]

Internet is well known for lack of silent language. That's what everything is taken with a grain of salt today in the virtual society. But that's also why we pay more attention in our regular real life conversations about what and how we talk. People are still not aware what kind of r/evolution Internet is. Soon it will be monopolized that way you could never imagine. It will become like cable network. You will be forced to pay for various packages. Just wait and see :/

Good thing it's already too late to stop this fast revolution of global consciousness.

[Mr Karl]

global consciousness...................your kidding, right?

[toxicat]

And maybe not so anecdotal...as an NLP life coach, I've participated in amazing rewiring sessions in my own, very new, practice. Most of the people I've worked with are over 30.