Class Research - What is "goth porn"?

[Mayuki]

Hello everyone

I hope this post does not come as an intrusion in your forums. If other members and moderators find it inappropriate, I will understand its removal.

My (nick)name is Mayuki and I am currently a student in an English class at the University of Illinois focusing on the Goth(ic) (sub)culture(s). In the framework of this class, I have been asked to make a presentation on a Goth(ic) “artifact” of my choice. Not a whole lot of students have done their presentation yet, but things have been pretty tame so far and I felt like taking a little more “risks” by tackling the subject of Goth(ic) “erotica”/”pornography” with my peers. While all presentations so far have focused on what students have read about the topics/artifacts they chose (one person talked about an old Gothic novel, another about the Ankh sign, yet another about an on-line store that sells Goth-inspired objects), I wanted to create a real discussion going on this topic with people who, like many of you, identify with the Goth(ic) culture instead of simply regurgitating what scholars might say on the subject or, well, making things up. I am really interested in knowing what you think about it and to share your thoughts with the other students in my class.

My main question, I guess, would be something like, “Is there something ‘out there’ that can be defined as truly Goth(ic) erotica and/or pornography?” and, if there is, “What does it look like and how is it different from ‘mainstream’ or ‘commercial’ erotica and/or pornography?”

The reason why I ask this question is because I feel that, in the same way as parts of the Goth(ic) culture has been ‘commercialized’ to appeal to people that might not be clearly identifying themselves as Goth(ic) individuals, it seems to me that part of today’s “sex industry” is using Goth(ic) imagery to sell some of its products. The thing I am wondering is whether these pictures (or videos) (I won’t link to sites for now, but can if moderators allow me to) actually appeal to you, or if you feel they are deforming the Goth(ic) aesthetics (and ideas) you believe in. Do you feel that these “Goth erotica/porn” pictures are mainly directed to a mainstream audience that does not really care about Goth(ic) subculture or that Goths will enjoy them as well? Is erotica/pornography compatible with Goth(ic) ideas? Is it a good or a bad thing (for the culture you identify yourselves with) that such form of erotica should become more and more popular? For many of these “Goth porn sites”, Goth and BDSM are often connected. Should it be so? And, last but not least, what would be your very own definition of “Goth(ic) erotica/porn” and do you feel that there are examples of that available?

I started thinking about the subject when I first heard of the ************* website (which some of you might have heard of) and how it presents itself as an “alternative” to mainstream erotic/porn sites. The site tends to emphasize its “punk” roots, but some of its models present themselves as “Goths” (which is of course not necessarily mutually exclusive). Yet, there has also been a lot of talks about how Suicide Girls might be, after all, only a disguised mainstream site which (possibly) exploited some of its models and which, on the whole, mainly targets a mainstream audience and not so much alternatives ones. What do you think?

Thanks a lot for reading this far and, in anticipation, thanks a lot for considering sharing your thoughts about the subject with me and other members of the forum. I feel a little awkward, almost rude, simply “popping in” here, being very interested in Goth and Gothic cultures but not identifying myself as a member of these cultures. I hope you understand that I will do my best to be as respectful as I can of the thoughts you would be ready to share and, it goes without saying, I will both be involved in the discussion that might follow this post and keep you posted on the conversation that will follow in class (which will take place in early November). So that you know, I’m posting this on a couple of Goth(ic)-related forums and Facebook pages, so don’t be surprised if you see it elsewhere (this does not mean it’s spam, it’s just that I try to cover as much ground as I can) ;-)

Again, thanks a lot in advance!

Mayuki

[BGartin]

Okay my first time bot-hunting but could this be a sighting?

[Buster Friendly]

INTRUUUUUUUUDER!!!!!



sorry.

I don't think this one's a bot either, too specific, and too many paragraphs.

I could be wrong though... QUICK! Deploy the Flying Centipedes!!

[Buster Friendly]

Of course, filling out the profile, adding an avatar of some sort, and interacting with us..."goth(ic)" pornography enthusiasts might go along way towards establishing non-bot/replicant status. And it might also get some answers.

[BGartin]

I'll say this: goth(ic) porn gives me a bone(r)!

[a_small_death]

If you want answers talk to us there gobot.

[ForrestBlack]

How many sites did you post this exact statement on anyway? You've been answered on other sites. Why don't you talk to us about your conclusions? You must have formulated some by now, I mean, you've been working on this paper for a while now.

Be an actual participant in the conversation.

[Mayuki]

Hi everyone. Nope, I'm not a bot - I'm obviously not trying to sell anything, here
Sorry for not answering earlier. I posted only 5 hours ago, and didn't think you expected me to answer straight away. Between you and me, there is also, at this point, not much I can really react to (expect by answering that, while I can, indeed, be called an "intruder" (this is my first post here), I'm not, as I said, a bot, and this is a serious post)
I believe my post is relatively clear about the kinds of questions I would like to debate with you, but if there is anything specific that's not clear enough, I'd be glad to try to make it clearer.
Forrestblack: I'm currently "working" with forum members of 5 other sites. I did get feedback from them but, at this point, I'd rather read what members of the BlueBlood forums have to say rather than simply list what other people think. Don't worry, when I'll feel I can bring in interesting elements from other conversations, I will (as I already have done there). It's also too early to draw any conclusion. I've only been working on this for, like, two weeks (and I do have other projects to work on), hardly enough to cover a lot of ground
Again, my apologies if you thought this was some sort of scam. I can assure you it's not. I must point out I will simply not have the "physical" ability to check these forums as often as you might want me to, but there is no doubt I will be a participant in this conversation... (otherwise I wouldn't see the point)

[Mayuki]

Note: This has been moved to "promotional announcements"? Hehe... :P

Note2: Since I feel I probably need to "justify" myself a little bit more than I had to on other forums (which I understand... I mean, you're not supposed to know, I just didn't really think my first post could possibly be mistaken for spam...), I wouldn't mind posting the names of the other places... but I can't since I need to have posted 15 times first :P ... but... type ""what is goth porn" in google, and you'll feel, I hope, a little reassured.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Asking personal questions yet keeping yourself non-personable ( Like putting up a fake avatar of some chick) will get you no where here.

You want truthfullness?

Well, then give us some of yourself.

Then....Maybe, we'll think of truthfully expressing what we believe as far as what "Goth porn" means to us....

Telling us you're not a bot, HARDLY tells us who you are....Inside and out.

[Mayuki]

Okay...
Well, I'm a 32-year-old man. Old to still be a student, I know. I have worked some time after my BA and only decided to "go back to school" a couple of years ago. I was born in Belgium (my mother tongue is French), but I'm now living in the US, in part because my wife is American (and yes, she knows this project). I'm a grad student and my major is English. The reason why I took this class is because I want gothic literature to be my "field". The reason why I'm interested in this particularly topic ("porn") is because I've had another class on the topic ("sex and cinema", to be more precise) and I thought it was interesting theoretically. I chose the avatar of "some chick" because 1) BusterFriendly seemed to imply than a avatar might help in not looking like some robot, 2) I happen to enjoy some of the work of the artist that made that drawing Jeffery Scott and 3) I'm not a fan of big yellow eyes
The reason why I chose to come on forums rather than making up myself what "goth porn is" is because I believe you should get your information from the source, in other words, because I respect you.
Do I hope this will be enough information? Yes. Will I give you more? No, probably not at this point, anyway. Why? Because I don't think it is vital for you guys to know me "inside and out" to participate in this conversation and make it a pleasant experience, in the same way in which I don't expect from you to tell me who you are "inside and out", either.
I'm fine with people not trusting me and therefore choosing not to answer my questions. I totally respect that right. I haven't come here with demands, I have come here humbly with open questions. And if there are people out there who are ready to trust me (once again, checking out the other forums where I posted makes it clear, I believe, that I'm not here to simply fool around with you), well, then I'll be grateful and ready to engage in conversation with them.
I think that covers it, really.

[Buster Friendly]

Yelling "Intruder" was just my way of welcoming you to our lovely little island.

hop aboard some of the other threads here too, if you feel so inclined, eh?

We like new comers

[Mayuki]

Hehe, hi there, BusterFriendly, and thanks!
Sure, I mean, I'm not going to lie to you guys, I will probably focus on this thread at first (if only because I do have to monitor a couple of other ones and, believe me, interacting with everyone is really time-consuming), but I'm definitely going to check the other threads (I already have) and will participate any time I feel I can give my "two cents"