what's the deal with fake environmentalists?

[Morning Glory]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I see this all the time, and I think it's bullshit.

If you drive a gasoline powered car, then you are not an environmentalist. If you purchase meat or products that are made from animals then you are not environmentalist. If you purchase leather products then you are not an environmentalist. If you throw anything away that is non-biodegradable or don't recyle then you are not an environmentalist. If you use plastic, which can't be recyled, then you are not an environmentalist. If you are not homeless then you are not an environmentalist. Houses destroy forests for wood, houses use gas which polutes the land the water and the air, houses use electricity which pollutes the same as gas, houses use plumbing which drains lakes and dumps waste into our water supplies.

So why is it ok for people to do things that destroy the environment and then feel like they have absolved thier conscience by calling themselves environmentalists?

[Amelia G]

I spend a little extra to buy certain biodegradable and organic products, but I am not an environmentalist.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

So you can't be an environmentalist who wants improvement instead of perfection? You can't just want people to treat the enviroment better, you have to live with zero impact? A little extreme don't you think?

An environmentalist is someone who wants to improve how we interact with the natural word, even if they aren't shooting for zero impact. You can eat meat, drive a car, even live in a house and still be an environmentalist just like you can be a punk even without a mohawk.

[Ellis]

I don't understand what you're trying to say here, mostly because it happens to be fucking retarded. It's not like you have to be the epitome or stereotype of something to support it, and environmentalists are actually a very good example of this. Just because they don't perform optimally doesnt mean they dont do their part and conserve the amount of damage they do. You think in black and white terms, and in this situation, it really isnt the best approach.

[Morning Glory]

um no, you can't. if you destroy the environment and claim to be about saving the environment then you are just as bad as everywhere else that you are supposed to be better than. that's the point. you can be a punk without a mohawk since that's not what punk means. you can't be a sober person and then have a drink, because that's not what sober means. and that's the equivalent to what I was saying and what you were saying is acceptable.

[Morning Glory]

there was an expression coined by Lenin and regaurdless of how you feel about the person, it still stands true. the expression was "armchair revolutionary" someone that claims to support the revolution, but doesn't actually get off thier ass and do anything about it. That describes a lot of people in our society today.

[One Eyed Cat]

dunno about people labelling themselves "environmentalists". I do believe incremental change is a good thing tho. I'd rather see improvements than worry about what people are calling themselves or whether they feel it makes them a better person.

OEC

[Morning Glory]

yeah, that's kind of my point.

[Azekiel]

anyone who gives themselves the label 'environmentalist' is idiotic. on that i'm 100% with you. the rest is tosh.

again, you're ranting. again, you're generalising wildly. again, you're ignoring any opinion that isn't your own.

[Morning Glory]

wow. so are you, dude. how does it feel?

[Azekiel]

Any living creature will alter their environment to some extent. the idea of... don't know what you want to call it... the green movement? is to get people to realise that we are doing more damage than we can sustain, and that the longer we carry on doing it the less we'll have to survive on when we finally all realise how badly we (and our parents, and their parents, etc.) have fucked up.

There are people who go and live in mud huts in forrests. generally what they're called is loony. how the fuck is that helping, in the grand scheme? you need to at least pay lip-service to consumer culture for 'the people' to give you the time of day.

can't be an environmentalist unless you live in a tree? fine! don't call them environmentalists! i doubt the real ones'd mind. People who wear the name 'environmentalist' like some kind of medal, like just by mouthing the words they pay their debt, make me sick to my stomach.
The people who are at least partially serious about it, recycle, use public transport, buy bio-degradeable stuff, etc. long for the day when what they do isn't unusual enough to warrant any label at all.

[Morning Glory]

I totally agree. and you may call my examples extreme or imflamatory rhetoric, but they work. no one's perfect, and not all of us can get by doing those things. but the first step to fixing the problem is to admit that we are all in this together, and not pretending like it's 'us and them'.

[Azekiel]

I consider your examples to be extreme and inflamatory rhetoric. i'm also pissed off with the way those people whose interests it suits are trying to do to the word 'environmentalist' what they did to 'liberal', 'Communist' and 'Youth (n.)' and you are not helping by using the term in such a way.

[Morning Glory]

who cares? if you are listening to what FOX News has to say about the subject then it's too late for you. the Right is trying to tear down cheap buzz words for people who's intrests are really the same as them; let them tear down every single "democrat" and "liberal", and the people that practice real activism, the one's you don't see on corporate TV stations, will keep on fighting. maybe it will inspire some people to join them and actually do something instead of just putting an anti-Bush sticker on their car.

[Ichigo]

I view myself as an environmentalist. Really, all you have to do is go out of your way a little to try to better the environment. I don't think anyone in this day and age can go without harming the environment in an indirect way.

[Morning Glory]

can't you? or do you merely not wish to give up convinience? it's not really a surprise that there is a direct correlation between destruction of the environment and materialism. Not that I don't appreciate the gesture, a small step is still a step in the right direction, but when I look around me I don't see it making a difference.

[Morning Glory]

I see buddhists in shri lanka that only own what they can carry, I see people in India that bath and wash thier clothes in the river, I see people in places all over the world taking what the need from the earth in a way that doesn't turn the sky black and cover the ground in concrete. and I see americans strip mining the land and cutting down all the trees, and driving down their highways and eating at fast food restaunts...There's gotta be a better way, cuz this isn't working.

[CPRB]

Morning glory has a problem with hypocrisy, basically everyone is a hypocrite but him......

[bre.star]

i recycle!

[devil13]

I see buddhists in shri lanka that only own what they can carry, I see people in India that bath and wash thier clothes in the river, I see people in places all over the world taking what the need from the earth in a way that doesn't turn the sky black and cover the ground in concrete. and I see americans strip mining the land and cutting down all the trees, and driving down their highways and eating at fast food restaunts...There's gotta be a better way, cuz this isn't working.

me personally I like to shit indoors, central heating and air conditioning, travel that takes hours not months, and being able to eat food without having to kill it, skin it, prepare it, before I cook it. you act as though industrial technology is a bad thing. seeing how your also writing these messeges on a cumputer thats made of non-invornmental parts and sitting in a chair that probably wasnt made by you, you must like the creature comforts just like the rest of us. sorry to tell you this but the Earth will be here long after us (humans) even if we destroyed everything on it, it will continue to exist and can heal itself. It will be here until the sun dies out. our sun is just a small star that will one day expand larger burning everthing up before burning itself out. once that happens no more Earth or Invornmentalists. once were gone, were gone. I understand that saving the environment is saving Humanity but sorry we are creatures that love our big screen tvs and our SUVs and thats not going to change anytime soon.

[Morning Glory]

a computer is made mostly out of aluminum and silicon, which are practically 100% recyclable. and btw thanks for that bre.star. at least that's something, unlike just saying well even though I don't know anything about you MG, I know that you aren't perfect, so why should I try to be. nearly every active social conscious post I've made was for the intention of not trying to get people to be perfect, but to just get them to sit down and think once in a while if maybe they could be better. there's just some people on here that can't get past a seperationist viewpoint, i've heard people say "sadly, I agree with MG" as if it's an insult that I should share thier point of view, because what, you don't want other people to share your views or something? or if you think i'm so bad, the fact that I DO share your view, what does that say about you? that's just sad. yes we are all hypocrites CPRB, show me where I ever claimed to be right or perfect. Just because I can see what's wrong, doesn't make me right.. but it doesn't mean that I am wrong in that assesment either. I try to use that as a means to find out what is right and what is wrong, not just tearing down ideas.

[Mr Karl]

enviromentalist, sounds like an oxymoron to me

[Mr Karl]

of course in retrospect , I guess all the word says is someone who thinks about the enviroment , it doesn't say nothing about doing

[devil13]

a computer is made mostly out of aluminum and silicon, which are practically 100% recyclable. and btw thanks for that bre.star. at least that's something, unlike just saying well even though I don't know anything about you MG, I know that you aren't perfect, so why should I try to be. nearly every active social conscious post I've made was for the intention of not trying to get people to be perfect, but to just get them to sit down and think once in a while if maybe they could be better. there's just some people on here that can't get past a seperationist viewpoint, i've heard people say "sadly, I agree with MG" as if it's an insult that I should share thier point of view, because what, you don't want other people to share your views or something? or if you think i'm so bad, the fact that I DO share your view, what does that say about you? that's just sad. yes we are all hypocrites CPRB, show me where I ever claimed to be right or perfect. Just because I can see what's wrong, doesn't make me right.. but it doesn't mean that I am wrong in that assesment either. I try to use that as a means to find out what is right and what is wrong, not just tearing down ideas.

I agree sorry had to say it
really I dont care if everyone or no one shares my views. Its a discusion you post your view I post mine.what does that say about me? is that a seperationist viewpoint?
BTW mostly and practically isnt 100% recyclable

[Morning Glory]

I know, but anything else would require some kind of crazy fraction that I can't even comprehend.

[Mr Karl]

I know, but anything else would require some kind of crazy fraction that I can't even comprehend.

do you mean fraction or faction

[Morning Glory]

it was a joke. it's from family guy. peter is like "I don't think of any of you guy's as half a man, and since joe's allready half a man that would require some kind of crazy fraction that I can't even comprehend."

[TheQuietPlace]

Ok, so all those hardcore evinronmentalists aren't enviromentalists because they live in a house/apartment? So what're they supposed to do, just sit there outside in the cold? Thats bullshit. I can be an environmentalist and still live in a house/apartment. But I myself am not an environmentalist, but I recycle aluminum and paper. I'm just asking why the hell did you say you can't be an environmentalist if you live in a house.

[Ichigo]

Exactly what I was trying to get at. If I were to truely not use any natural resources, then I would have to move out of my house into the woods. Now, the only place around me that has woods is in the park, and I don't think they would take kindly to me living in a tree there. So that would mean that I'd have to move far away from my family. From there, how would one get to work? Well, you'd have to walk, which would probably take hours or possibly days. It's unrealistic. To be an environmentalist, the simple thing to do is to recycle, buy cars that are fuel efficient, and most importantly, just conserve resources. Don't take showers everyday, don't leave the electricity on all the time, walk or ride your bike when you can. It's really easy.

[pagan]

Im not sure what you are getting at with this thread. At least the so called "enviromentalist" are trying to do something. Small efforts by all equal alot on a larger scale. You seem to have a good Idea on what a true enviromentalist would be. With your insight maybe you should lead by example. Show us how it should be done. I don't think anyone here is going out of their way to destroy our enviroment. If you shared tips in a positive way, maybe we all can help. I do what I can as do many of my peers. Hopefully we can do more in the future. What do you do that can inspire us?

As far as you just picking out a group to pick on, I hope we both agree that there are far worse groups than so called enviromentalist. At least they are going out of their way to promote what they believe in. It's easy to sit behind a computer and talk shit. If you really have something against someone that cares about the enviroment in a way you don't seem fit, then share some of your positive ideas on how to help. You seem to be very opinionated. Which would be perfect for you give some of your time to support enviromentalist organizations.
If you care about the enviroment then please help. If you don't then there are many problems in the world for you to aim your sights at first. IMO.

[devil13]

whats the diference between a environmentalist and lets say an anti porn actavist? not much. they are both trying to push thier beliefs on others and they both go out of their way to " promote what they belive in."
I like to build Mopars, not cars that are fuel efficient at all, so Im an Invirnmentalists worst nightmare.

[Morning Glory]

well I think I've given a few ideas on what direction to head in, but maybe that's by saying what not to do, instead of saying what you CAN do. being positive is a good thing, and it's eay to get discouraged, I guess for starters i'd say to focus more on that, which I know that I don't always practise. I guess second to that would just to be supportive of people around you and other's that want to do likewise. I do appreciate any effort, and that was my entire point, not that the effort toward saving the enviornment was pointless, but more so about adhearing to a label/group to put in the effort for you and not really doing much to enforce it.

umm, i'm kinda busy right now, so gimme a few minutes, I got some info that I want to post here. so more on this subject...

[Morning Glory]

Well, since a lot of people seem to be interested in recycling, I think that's a good place to start. I don't really know how much anyone really knows about recycling, so here's some info I got from a guy that worked at a recycling center.

-Glass is recyclable. When aluminum and glass is melted down you lose a lot of material in the form of fumes and smoke. When you melt down glass you lose almost nothing. Additionally, the more people that use glass the more likely it is that stores will go back to washing and reusing bottles, which takes even less energy than recycling them.

-Plastic isn't really recyclable. You can turn some plastics into harder plastics, but you can't turn the harder plastics into much of anything. Easy solution - don't buy plastic.

-Aluminum isn't recycled into cans. When you put your aluminum cans in the recycle, they get smashed into blocks and then they get sent to Asia where they are melted down and made into car engines. Therefor every time you drink soda/beer out of a can, that can is made from virgin materials. That means they cut up a mountain and used a whole slew of toxic chemicals to separate the ore from the earth. Simple solution - don't use cans.

-Paper is recyclable. It seems like most people only recycle their newspaper. You can recycle colored paper, newsprint, cardboard, blueprints, magazines, etc. Basically everything.

-Here's a list of other things you can recycle. Brass, copper, scarp aluminum, lithoplate, Xerox cylinders, steel.

I also heard that there's only a handful of Recycling plants in the country, and in most towns the city doesn't want to pay for the cost of shipping materials out of state, so whenever you put something into a recycling bin or drop it off at a recycling center it just gets picked up by the trash collectors and dumped in a landfill with all the other cities garbage. I don't know if that's true, I gotta check it out.

[Ichigo]

Wow I didn't know that about cans. I guess I'll have to try using glass from now on.