I Kissed A Girl

[The Newswire]

When the feminist publications like Feministe and the rock publications like AntiQuiet, and the news overlords like MSNBC...

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[batzilla]

This actually does not bother me as much as part of me thinks it should. I mean, in theory I am totally against faux-bisexuality. But, in the song, Perry doesn't make any bones about what this is for her -- an experiment with pleasant results, but which doesn't mean much to her.

Is there no room for a straight girl with some genuine queer curiosity? I guess that's the sticking point, whether it's genuine or whether, in the end, it's all about the boyfriend. I know objectively that it's probably the latter. But I can almost believe that it's really about a chick who decided to try something new and found it pleasant but not life-changing, and who now wants to sing about it.

That said, the "Ur so gay" song is messed up, Ani Difranco is a a million times more of an artist than Perry will ever be, and swingers should, in fact, think their positions through.

[Malixe]

"I think there will come a time when the idea of two women kissing being scandalous is as quaint as the idea of two people with different ethnic or racial backgrounds kissing is now"

Wait, what? You mean it's not *now*??

I remember the Jill Sobule song and I always thought it was very sweet and amusing. Never saw the video before, thanks for that. Love the way she wails on the whammy bar in the middle.

I didn't even know what to make of the Katy Perry version, so I thought I'd go listen/watch the 'Ur So Gay' tune. Wow. That's a massive piece of snottiness, but you know as I listened, my interpretation of it was that it was more of a slam on effeminate goth/geek boys, with just a back-hand to the homosexuals by using 'gay' as a derogatory barb.

Either way I was not enthused or amused. It does start to feel like we're recycling 'pop song controversies' here though, you know. Do you remember Josie Cotton's song, "Johnny Are You Queer?" from the eighties? A much better song, with the angst ridden girl trying to figure her boyfriend out, instead of just putting him down for not being something else.

[OliX]

I thought too that "Ur So Gay" was pointed towards Emo guys.

I was always more offended by stupidity of name picking people than a names them self.

[athenahollow]

I thought too that "Ur So Gay" was pointed towards Emo guys.

I was always more offended by stupidity of name picking people than a names them self.

You are correct, it towards emo guys, (as pointed out by the video www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWbLkXhGEmo ). Personally, I laughed my ass off but then again, I can't stand most of the emo kids in my town. And the song was so remnant of them. And the "Ur So Gay" throwback goes towards the phrase "emofag" which many, many have used.

[Velvet-Tongue]

/lays face on palm.

[Bikerpunk]

We've already established forum rules:

- demonyms based on ETHNICITY are banned.
- demonyms based on "RACE" are banned.

Comments about homosexuality which are appallingly negative are "funny".

[Mr Karl]

the song sucks, but it does fit that whole 'thing'

[motormenace]

Yeap, the song STILL fuckin' sucks!!!!

[chaosfeary]

heh "this video is not available in your country"

.. isolationists!

[Rockwulf]

Unless there's something I'm missing I think that calling her a homophobe is a little extreme. I watched the You're So Gay video and I've seen the I Kissed a Girl video far too many fuckin' times. YSG just seemed like a slam at a lame ex-boyfriend who was into a "metrosexual" kind of vibe. She clearly states that the guy is not an actual homosexual and again, unless I missed something, doesn't actually denegrate actual homosexuals.

But calling someone gay because they do a lot of traditionaly gay activities doesn't strike me as homophobic. It's like saying "I jewed someone down on the price." Is it the best, most PC word choice? Of course not. But if I said that, does it imply that I hate or fear Jewish people?

If people are gonna trash her for writing music you don't like, by all means go ahead. But I think thowing out words like homophobe is taking her crappy pop songs a little too seriously in my opinion.

[Wickedanima]

[episode allah]

Omg Its Zooey Deschanel !!

[Bikerpunk]

YSG just seemed like a slam at a lame ex-boyfriend who was into a "metrosexual" kind of vibe. She clearly states that the guy is not an actual homosexual and again, unless I missed something, doesn't actually denegrate actual homosexuals.

No, but using it as an insult suggests that there is something wrong or shameful about being gay. The word's being used as an insult.

I seem to remember you not liking John Mayer, and denigrating him as "gay" and his fans as "faggots" and suggestions of what they do with each others' penises. As an insult.

But calling someone gay because they do a lot of traditionaly gay activities

And what are "traditionally gay activities"? This should be good.

doesn't strike me as homophobic. It's like saying "I jewed someone down on the price." Is it the best, most PC word choice? Of course not. But if I said that, does it imply that I hate or fear Jewish people?

No, it just carries on the stereotype that Jewish people are money grubbing and dishonest.

[Head Wreck]

a myth descending from the crusades where the only job a jew could obtain was that of a money lender.and a few other incidents since

[Amelia G]

No, but using it as an insult suggests that there is something wrong or shameful about being gay. The word's being used as an insult.

I seem to remember you not liking John Mayer, and denigrating him as "gay" and his fans as "faggots" and suggestions of what they do with each others' penises. As an insult.



And what are "traditionally gay activities"? This should be good.



No, it just carries on the stereotype that Jewish people are money grubbing and dishonest.

Yeah, pretty much this. I don't have a lot of patience with emo histrionics, but calling a guy's sexual orientation into question for good grooming is deeply homophobic. Ditto for equating wuss factor with male homosexuality. I work out at Gold's and feel very qualified to say this is, aside from being narrow-minded, simply inaccurate. As part of my Benevolent World Dictator platform involves males of the species wearing eyeliner, I'm not down with this on any level. Ditto the ignorant Jewish example. Expressions of bigotry are only palatable when expressed extremely humorously (e.g. South Park, but Family Guy isn't funny enough to pull off hate speech with a laugh) and Katy Perry just doesn't have the entertainment value to pull off being a sucky human.

[Velvet-Tongue]

I think what you guys are missing here is that gays are faggots.

Oh everyone calm down seriously. We've been using "gay" as an insult since middleschool. Now a-days its not even associated with actual homosexuals. The same way when you say someone Sucks you're not implying they slurp up dick. Its just a phrase.

I have little to no issue with the vast majority of gay men and women but throwing shitstorms over someone using the word as an "insult" is just a waste of time when the grand majority of people don't even think of it like that. Especially when all the drama is over an artist using the terms to inspire INTERNET/REALIFE RAGGGEEE and make more money.

[Rockwulf]

Beat me to it. ^^^

[DonkeyMoses]

Words are words. Context is everything.

[mystoo]

Hmmm...have we had this conversation before?

[Morning Glory]

In two separate threads to boot.

If it wasn't for this board, I never would have even heard of this singer or the song.

[OrganizedKhaos]

... just pick a word, like the word arm. Say it over and over again, arm, arm, arm. ....this word means a part of your body, it means something, right? But after a while, it's just this phonetic gibberish....while we've been raised with its meaning...but... really, if you analyze it, or if you meditated on it long enough,.. it loses its meaning. It takes on other meanings. It's elastic. ~JEFF BUCKLEY

Words are elastic... and they really mean whatever intent the user intends for it to be....

I absolutely recognize that there is a horrible stigma that's associated with homosexuals...
...same with homophobes.
..or racists.

(am I putting anyone down? NO. Am I agreeing with hate crimes, or making lite of them?ABSOLUTELY NOT. Am I making my best effort to look at things objectively? ABSOLUTELY)

Not every homophobe or even racist, will be taking it to the point of physical gay bashing, or burning crosses, and lynching.

BUT, they're BOTH lumped in with the ones who have. (to a degree)

From what I can tell.... according to what I've read in this thread as well as others.... each of us speak from our own life experiences. Do you think that's a fair assumption?

BP, and Amelia, considering the paths that both of you walk... you may be confronted with this issue differently than those of us that live in the Midwest/east/southern bible belt with more so "traditional" influences.

BP, I think its kewl as hell that you like men too... (that's one of the things I love about my husband as well).....and Amelia, you've done wonders in the trail blazing efforts to heighten awareness of the sub/counterculture's beauty...
I'm thankful for every time you've trudged onward with every step that you've faced in adversity!!!.... I'm sure you deal with homophobes coming against the vision of your empire.... as well as the ppl you shoot, care about, (and possibly including your other friends)...in a disgusting manner full of closed minded condemnation.

Its understandable why you stand against it like you do and in the way you do.
It may be a personal/private thing, but I'm interested in knowing WHY you believe the way you do, you've helped me see a lot of things very differently.
(I do however respect your privacy)
.......................
How much does our experiences and where we live effect the way we view this song, and the contexts PERCEIVED?
.......................

BP. how many times have we heard ppl use the term ON HERE... as gayspace instead of my*space?
There wasn't a showdown of sorts ignited by that usage.

(because of the elastic use of the word "gay" I prefer to change the spelling to differentiate "gay" and "ghey" ...because I DO feel they are two different words. Just like bad, ill, and nasty, are used to describe something awesome and those words are socially accepted as such)

How about the thread with the funniest pictures, how many of those are politically incorrect...with content ... that can be viewed JUST AS CONTROVERSIAL... a picture of a little girl eating a phallic ice cream cone comes to mind....
Isn't child molesting references just as harsh? I have no idea who posted that picture, and I'm not calling them out, I'm not calling out all the 'gay' or even the "ghey" jokes...

I'm just illustrating, that the way we perceive all of these topics are not cut and dry... black and white... but rather limited to each person's view points and perspective..

I'd LOVE to see all kinds of appropriate tolerances surface in the face of the collective consciousness of humanity.

I despise hate 'crimes' and intolerance toward, race as well as sexual preferences.

Its situations like this,words are truly elastic.
........................

Back to the song... I haven't heard the song " Ur So Gay"... but I still stick by that I like the song "I Kissed a Girl"... because TYPICALLY there's a point where each girl that likes girls (and desires to kiss them) decides to try it out to see how deep their attractions go...
I love the whole concept of experimenting and trying new things. And I love that someone's singing about it.

Most of us learn best thru trial and error. Right?

I don't think its kewl that some girls will kiss others ONLY to get a reaction from the men in their life. Poseurs of any sort fail to reflect integrity.

California is much more free with the open expression of sexuality, than some other states. (I've lived in Kentucky most of my life, and compared to other places I've visited or lived, we're at least 30 yrs behind....SERIOUSLY!!!!)

The sexual evolution has been refined in more "advanced" areas... and that's got to result in precision of perspectives.
.......................
Amelia, I really like the point you brought up about dudes, and how they fantasize about having a girl who will kiss other girls... only to have them get jealous... because she might actually care for the other girl....
I think that this goes back to the flawed vision the dude is projecting....

From what I've observed, his daydream consists more of a "King worship" situation rather than an act of consenting partners sharing mutual feelings all around.
And when confronted with the situation in REALITY, it doesn't mirror his initial thoughts about it all.. and tends to backfire.

What do you think?


(Forrest, I didn't mean to exclude you, when talking about the BB empire.... I was just addressing Amelia's role)

[Bikerpunk]

Imagine if someone used "woman" as a denigratory insult.

"Dude, that's so woman."

And imagine if, at the same time, it was perfectly acceptable to deny you a job, housing, etc. because you had breasts and a vagina,.

You wouldn't hold with "well, I spell it womon, so it's okay".

[Rockwulf]

Imagine if someone used "woman" as a denigratory insult.

"Dude, that's so woman."

And imagine if, at the same time, it was perfectly acceptable to deny you a job, housing, etc. because you had breasts and a vagina,.

You wouldn't hold with "well, I spell it womon, so it's okay".

Okay, I gotta throw down the "Bullshit" card on that one.

Look at the huge majority of entertainment and advertising over the last decade.

The VAST majority of the time, it's the man who's portrayed as the "boob" and who's totally clueless. The woman is the smart, sarcastic, in control figure while the man is the dolt who has no clue about his family's life and who screws up the projects for school, and on and on.

The last decade or so has taught America that women are all powerful super-beings and men are needy and childlike, completely incapable of supporting themselves.

That being said, guys (gay and straight) have been using comparisons to women for ages. Sometimes it's favorable, sometimes not. For instance, I wish I had a dollar for every time one of my friends was whiny and I asked him, "Are you okay? Is your vagina sore?"

Bottom line, people are ALWAYS going to compare themselves to people who are different. Two hundred years from now you're never going to hear a "person" tell another "person", "What the hell is wrong with you? You're acting like some kind of person!"

So no matter what the situation is, every person, regardless of age, race, religion, sexual orientation, financial well being, whatever, is going to use someone who's different as an unfavorable comparison.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Imagine if someone used "woman" as a denigratory insult.

"Dude, that's so woman."

And imagine if, at the same time, it was perfectly acceptable to deny you a job, housing, etc. because you had breasts and a vagina,.

You wouldn't hold with "well, I spell it womon, so it's okay".

I can understand why you'd say that... actually, I hear that stuff all the time...its sadly a way of life where I live. If you feel like it, read the stats to my town on wikipedia.

Do I like it? No. Do I recognize there's ignorance, and that I cant change the world, just because there are ppl who dont see things the way I do? Yes.
Do I take offense? Maybe not like you THINK I would.

And since you cant *hear* me say any of this... it may appear to you that I may sound smartass, or attitudish, but please know there isnt an ounce of it ... only calm reasoning.

AND I accept that we can just agree to disagree.

[Bikerpunk]

Okay, I gotta throw down the "Bullshit" card on that one.

Look at the huge majority of entertainment and advertising over the last decade.

The VAST majority of the time, it's the man who's portrayed as the "boob" and who's totally clueless. The woman is the smart, sarcastic, in control figure while the man is the dolt who has no clue about his family's life and who screws up the projects for school, and on and on.

I'm trying to show an analogy for using a descriptive term as a term for something bad. OK is female, so I used what she is.

Not going off on how men are perceived.

I repressed a part of who I was, not even admitting it to myself, because of rampant hatred and some degree of violence shown to "faggots" - and even in the absence of it, the perfectly acceptable social mores we have to use gay to mean weak, effeminate, bad, uninteresting or unacceptable.

I still remember days when open scorn was socially tolerated.

My generation still much has the idea that homosexuality is not okay, but it's not going to be attacked. That's their interpretation of "tolerance". The whole "they can do what they want, so long as they hide, never make me aware of it."

To Rockwulf and OrganisedKhaos: Language is a virus. Go talk to any self-help gurus, business gurus, psychologists - ignore the activists for a second. They will tell you how you think is influenced greatly by the words you use. The words "grimoire" (book of spells) and "grammar" are not that similar by accident. They have the same linguistic root.

Imagine for a second that the only word you had to describe a black man or woman was "******". And that that word had the same connotations and negative and offensive connotations that it does now. There would be not only no way to talk about someone with dark skin without insulting them - but also, the way you think about them would be tainted by that symbol and its connotation.

This isn't me being hypersensitive. There are people who suggest, for example, improving one's life by writing down what one wants over and over to wire the brain. Or to refactor one's speaking - to avoid saying "sorry" unless one really has done something wrong, because over time its repettition makes the person anxious about what he's doing to other people. Or to write in e-Prime.

Getting rid of the verb "to be" - that is powerful stuff. Compare "I am happy" to "I feel happy". One is a state, the other is more descriptive and forces you to fully process what's going on.

If you come to associate the word "gay" with weak, wussy, something scornful - then when you use it, you will have those in the back of your mind.

It's not for nothing that political correctness tried to rewrite language. The word "crippled" writes someone off. That means "damaged to the point of useless or malfunction". "Differently abled" - well, look at it this way - Stevie Wonder can't see, but he can hear far better than most people, and has more attuned kinaesthetic senses. Superior to you in at least two or three ways, but to call him "handicapped' focuses on a weakness not his strengths.

As for Rockwulf, your true feelings for gay men are evident with the vitriol you put behind all the comments you made in the John Mayer thread.

[Bikerpunk]

I can understand why you'd say that... actually, I hear that stuff all the time...its sadly a way of life where I live. If you feel like it, read the stats to my town on wikipedia.

There's a reason I don't live there.
Or anywhere like it.

I mean, I'm bi, in a town like that I could always find a nice girl, be happy with her, and it wouldn't be an issue. But I'd have a problem being in a town where bigotry of any kind is encouraged.

Listen, I've lived in Northern, coastal cities and heard people bang on about how people in towns like yours all collectively have four teeth, only have sex with underage blood relatives and livestock, have the intelligence quotient of a hunk of farmed salmon, etc. and a life expectancy of 32 because of meth, "hey y'all watch this! Billy Bob and I are gonna shoot apples off each uthers haids even though we're both drunk" or Dukes of Hazzard style DUI. I give them just as much shit as I'm giving Rockwulf for acting like a stereotypical meathead homophobic douchebag, if not more.

And frankly, I thought homophobic comments would be out of place here. We have several declared gay people (ThistleHarlequin, etc), bisexual people (batzilla, myself) and I'm reasonably sure if we wanted to hear "yeah, a bunch of cock gobbling faggots went down to watch Johnny Homo Gayer" we could easily find a sports bar or suchlike. I mean, this is the kind of site where men wear eyeliner, for God's sake. I'd be a lot more understanding if this was douchebagswhowearafflictionandedhardytshirts.com

[Bikerpunk]

And don't even get me started on "what's wrong with using Jew as a verb for cheating someone or refusing to pay full price for something"?

For instance, I wish I had a dollar for every time one of my friends was whiny and I asked him, "Are you okay? Is your vagina sore?"

Strange, my friends don't do that. And if they did, we'd have a talk, and if at the end of it, they saw nothing wrong with describing weakness and disagreement as quintessentially feminine, we'd be parting ways.

[OrganizedKhaos]

I'm not arguing.... I'm seriously asking, what homophobic comment are you referring to exactly?
I need to make sure we're discussing the same issue.

I'm NOT taking up for Billy Bob, so to speak... I'm just looking at the entire situation and EVERYBODY'S view point. I'm not singling out ANYBODY.

[Bikerpunk]

I'm not arguing.... I'm seriously asking, what homophobic comment are you referring to exactly?
I need to make sure we're discussing the same issue.

Rockwulf's comment: (Tales from the barricade)

John-fucking-your-body-is-a-fucking-wonderland-fucking-Mayer. (animated gif of someone feeling an erect penis and giggling).

...

So the show goes on as planned and the venue fills up with the expected crowd of lame-ass, white, suburban "tweens"; fagot-ass frat boys who got dragged there by their girlfriends; fagot ass frat boys who went with their boyfriends; and a small contingent of parents concerned enough about their child's welfare to actually go with them to a show.

...

"Look fuckbag, if I wasn't pulling a paycheck for babysitting you little fagots I wouldn't be anywhere within the city limits of this show. So here's what's going to happen. You're going to shut the fuck up.

And apparently, if you're whiny, according to him and his friends, you must have a vagina, because we all know that whiny people have vaginas, and people with vaginas are whiny.

I'm NOT taking up for Billy Bob, so to speak... I'm just looking at the entire situation and EVERYBODY'S view point. I'm not singling out ANYBODY.

What I was saying in my previous comment, to clarify (I thought I'd take your private concern public) is that I abhor the Southern stereotype and give people shit for using it. I was NOT using it in any way - in fact the Southerners I've met while LIVING in the South have been for the most part gentlemanly and decent folks.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Thank you for clarifying.

Do you see where I was coming from? That words CAN be elastic?
and there can be a distinction in the social use of the word "gay" and "ghey"?

If you say YES, its not implying that you AGREE with its usage, but rather, the distinction of the social usage... that they're similar ... but meaning different things.

EDIT: Oh, and thank you for not promoting the belief that those who speak with a southern accent are dumb.
Please excuse me for any part I confused, or misread.
Thank you.

[Rockwulf]

You left out the part where I said:

Nah, no homophobic assertions here. I just like the illiteration of "faggot frat-boy" and "fucking faggot". Plus in practical use, the word faggot is so tabboo these days that just throwing it into someones face is enough to make them back down.

[Amelia G]

You left out the part where I said:

Maybe if the people who write Katy Perry's songs for her used better alliteration.

[DonkeyMoses]

Funny how you never hear anyone say "Yea, I'm homophobic all over the place." I live in Santa Fe, second only to San Fran in gay population. We also have a lot of Texas transplants and a lot of taditional Catholic latin families. And it's a relatively small town. We've reached a state of tolerance in this generation, but are a long way off from acceptance.
People often make use of the elasticity of words to make them mean what they want to say, but unfortunately, they also use them to mean what they want to hear. The word "faggot" can be funny if used in the right context, or a juxtaposing one. Just calling a bunch of people faggots is not funny, it's just derrogatory. You have to look at the context of the whole sentence to get the intended gist, not just the words used. Words can not hurt you. Words used in a hurtful mannor can only hurt you if you give a fuck what some ignorant neck-bag thinks about you.
Could you hand me my smokes? they're on the table under that faggot. We're having leek and faggot stew tonight! Oh no, I left a faggot in my jeans and it went through the washer. Careful, you'll hurt your faggot! A bunch of faggot-ass frat boys came in with thier boyfriends..
Can you find the offensive sentence in that paragraph? Queer used to be used in the perjorative, now it's used as an identity. They've taken the power out of the word by giving it acceptance in a non-offensive context. But call some one a queer with the wrong words around it or a negative inflection and it's an insult.
I've never seen this video or heard the song, but this is two threads in which I've seen it discussed, and in both threads (one on a different site) it spun into a PC nightmare of warring terminology. The other one became a racist issue. A guy was innocently trying to point out that in the video she's all woried about the taboo of kissing a girl, but in no way concerned with the social taboo of sleeping with a black man. He was making the point that it's no longer as huge a taboo and she was therefore not writting a song about that. He was called out as being a racist because he mentioned the fact (in context) that the guy in her bed was black. The line between using words descriptively and using them derrogatorily is fairly broad, but the line in interpreting what was meant by the user can be a little fuzzy. I've had a friend ask me if my vagina was sore (I told him he'd have to ask my wife) and it was funny at the time only because I know his views on women. I know the mutual respect he has for men and women alike and doesn't put one over the other. So in that context, it's funny because it's ironic. If some womanizing asshole says it, and you know he thinks of himself as above women, then it's not ironic, it's just crude.
How do you make Hellen Keller mad?
Punch her in the cunt!
Tha's funny to me because it's unexpected, over the top, and truthfully would make anyone mad, Hellen Keller or not. I'ts just words. But if I said I wanted to punch someone in the cunt it would not be well recieved. Bassically I'm saying that ther's a line. The whole PC homoginization of words removes our ability to make choices of context. It assumes a word has one definition, one context. Stevie Wonder is a blind man. Sorry, blind person. Or should I say "person who is blind" so as to put the fact that he's a person first? I guess I'm mostly talking about the elasticity of words rather that whether or not Rockwulf is an obvious homophobe or maybe just a biggot, which he has every right to be, just why be it here?

[OrganizedKhaos]

Very well put DM.

I especially like this:

Words used in a hurtful mannor can only hurt you if you give a fuck what some ignorant neck-bag thinks about you.

[Rockwulf]

This is rediculous.

All my life I've called myself an "Equal Oppourtunity Asshole" and always said that if I think something's funny, I'm gonna say it. If it happens to be a crack on race, religion, preference, wardrobe, mannerisms, intelligence, whatever.

In my group of friends, much more often than not, everyone get's it's a joke and absurd for the sake of absurdity. For instance last night my friend came into the bar and sat with us. He said that he'd just been fired and after the obligatory "dude, that sucks, what happened?" he read off a litany of violations from latness to outright theft that would have made a mobster's jaw drop. After telling his story he said, "Yeah, so eventually the last straw came around and they fired me for being a terrible worker." To which I responded, "I call bullshit, it was 'cause HR found out you were black."

We all had a good chuckle and went on with the conversation. Nobody got their panties in a bunch. (Oh no, I mentioned female-specific undergarments!) And just I said "black" because the guy in question was dark-skinned I could easily have said a midget porn fan, a crappy dresser, bad at Halo 3, wearing a gross cologne, or adopted. Because the guy in question is all of those things. However, taking it "racist" was the option with the highest shock value and made the quickest, best joke.

Now in the context of my story, I was dealing with 2 drunk, obnoxious guys and I wanted to have them bend to my will, which was the will of my bosses. The fastest way to get them to do what I want was to intimidate them a little and shock them into silence. And like I said, throwing out a "shock word" like faggot was the fastest way to do this.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Maybe if the people who write Katy Perry's songs for her used better alliteration.

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it too...
The fact that she plays a guitar makes it that much easier to put her name on the list of credits of who contributes to writing the song.

[Mr Karl]

Whatever the song fucking SUCKS...................5 time in eight hours today

[Morning Glory]

I don't agree with the notion that you can be an offensive jerk and try to use words to hurt people and then say that it's up to them how they take it, that they shouldn't take it offensively and it's there fault for being offended, not yours for being offensive.

as bikerpunk points out, maybe it would make a difference if they really were just words, but those words are predicated on a legacy of hate filled actions that back them up. when the klan says that they want to kill black people, they don't mean they are just offering there POV and it's all good if you don't agree with them - they mean they want to kill all black people. and the fact that they are still saying that shit today, to have other people say "get over it." is ridiculous.

obviously some of these words have been "reclaimed" and they might sincerely have no ill effect, but the point is that it's rude and inconsiderate to expect other people to feel the same way if they are used to being victimized by them, and it's even worse to just assume and not to even consider if that is the case or not.

You know me, that i've put my own foot in my mouth a few times when it comes to doing that, so i'm trying to be a little bit more considerate of other people's feelings. there's nothing wrong with that.

[Velvet-Tongue]

Imagine if someone used "woman" as a denigratory insult.

"Dude, that's so woman."

And imagine if, at the same time, it was perfectly acceptable to deny you a job, housing, etc. because you had breasts and a vagina,.

You wouldn't hold with "well, I spell it womon, so it's okay".

I call people pussies, ask if they have sand in their vaginas, tell them to quit acting like a woman etc all the time and I'm a feminist. Just part of how we talk.

Also their are plenty of jobs that cant be denied you for being a woman.


Sorry to pick over crap, im pretty bored.