What issues matter to you?

[Amelia G]

I was thinking about this apropos the dissection thread. There are lots of things where most people abstractly feel it would be nice if they were the case (e.g. world peace), but few do anything about or even think of often. The argument is frequently made, when someone does care about something and try to act, that there are more important issues to care about.

So what are five of the issues you care about most? Do you address them by living your own individual life righteously, by doing charity, and/or by trying to convince others of what you feel is right?

[Mr Karl]

do you mean in some kind of social way?

[Amelia G]

do you mean in some kind of social way?

Cruelty of animals, war, homelessness, gay rights, global warming, gender discrimination, racism, etc. sort of issues.

Different people address their concerns different ways. You could just make sure you do not contribute to a problem. You can volunteer. You can attempt to convince others to also not contribute or to actively combat a problem.

[Rockwulf]

1. Being able to pay my rent.
2. Being able to pay for my groceries.
3. The safety of myself and my loved ones.
4. Uh, honestly I can't think of anything else I get worked up about.

[Morning Glory]

don't forget elevator access, rock.

I think for me, maybe the biggest issue would be animal rights and veganism. Because that seems to be a thing that is like not really on the top list of priorities among the general consensus of leftist/radical/counter-culture. and I don't just mean that because they have more important things to worry about, they just don't seem to care at all. and I do think it is relevant to sexism, and racism and war because it all has to do with how people perceive the world and their relation/responsibilities to others, I think they all stem from the same thing.

Just because you eat meat doesn't make you a homophobe, but I bet you ten bucks that every homophobe is a meat eater because their world-view is about the idea that their is an hierarchy of those that have rights or deserve privileges and those that don't.

I don't really do anything above a personal level to influence that change though, other than being willing to give credible and logical information to people that are willing to listen to it. I know that people aren't going to change, if they ever will, because you tell them that they are pieces of shit and trying to play on their emotions like PETA does. Maybe some direct action is the answer, and I applaud those people for their efforts, but it's not really practical for everyone to do it, it kinda works better that they don't, as much as I feel ineffective and useless sometimes for not doing that.

[Rockwulf]

Sure all homophobes eat meat. But that's only because vegans are so gay!

[Bikerpunk]

I'm with Wulf, but with my two kids first and foremost.

[Raza]

I dunno; most of the things I would say I stand for in a 'moral' context can be summed up fairly adequately as 'anarchy', but since barely anyone knows what that means, that might not be very helpful.

Anarchy means no prescriptive roles. Prescriptive roles, labels and divisions are the essence if inequality; they are anything that tells us to judge the actions of one individual differently from those of another. Everything from 'black person' to 'child' to 'boss' to 'sister' to 'citizen of country X' that has us treat and be treated according to a role that is assigned to us, rather than by one universal standard. Eliminating them would mean to eliminate all discrimination, all borders, all involuntary social structure of any kind. That'd pretty much solve one major subset of humanity's problems.

Within the meters long list of single issues this would address I tend to stand up for the most esoteric ones first. The fewer people that realise the injustice of a certain standard we are subjected to, the more inclined I am to speak out. Partially because that's where it's most needed, partially because that's where the fun of running against the grain is at.

And that is also my primary and near-exclusive method of activism; to speak my mind and voice my opinion as concisely and eloquently as I am able to. Most people's idea of morality is a near-exact mixture of the voices they have been exposed to throughout their lifetime, each voice's weight measured by the degree by which the individual in question would like to identify with it. Moral judgement is passed not on those that do wrong in any reasonable sense, but on those we do not identify - and therefore, sympathise - with. Merely by confidently voicing an opinion that people haven't heard before you take that perspective out of the 'unfathomable' category in their minds, and place it in a position where it can be considered. Where it was previously associated only with the idea of being 'wrong', it now also bears an association with 'right' because you just proposed that it was. Without that basis, people won't generally even get to the point of rationalizing their opinion.

[Bondage Clown]

Gay marriage
Illegal immigration
Gas Dependency
Wildlife Conservation -- I like my hunting grounds, and also I love going out camping.. SUBurbia is killing the environment. I say we start building up.. not out.

[Morning Glory]

makes me think of Japan. they have some flaws, no doubt, but in many ways their ideas of urban-planning and environmental management are way ahead and superior to ours.

[OliX]

Other than world is not realizing that it needs to stop thinking quantity and start thinking quality. There are technologies and resources to switch all our energy consumption to green energy, f.ex. geothermal energy that today supplies less than 1% world's energy but can easily top it to 100%, and then solar, wind etc.

There is technology that can free 90% of labor workers of work. Making production almost 90% times cheaper. There is transportation technology that will render airplanes unnecessary. There's communication technology that is instant and with limitless bandwidth all over the world. (Tesla anyone?).

Plans for downsizing population with 1 child per life time global rule(so chose wisely!).

Start building Eco houses and Earthships!

All this would be possible if we all joined hands but when do you think Amelia and Fleisch or Soma and Rockwulf would hold hands together. I wish everybody can see the big picture and avoid all the bullshit. That's why I try to enlighten everybody I know who is capable of it. There is people that know and do it, there's people that know but don't do it, and there is people that just don't give fuck. I address those that know but they don't do it. (Coelho anyone?)

Other than that I'm deeply upset by discrimination of electronic music culture by police and government. Don't they see that dancing in to the trance is one of the ways for enlightening people. You can change people in a instant with a good trip. For good!

[Bikerpunk]

I'm pissed off that people hate live music and musicians are going the way of the dodo thanks to click click click mouse move mouse move BOMP BOMP BOMP BOMP BOMP BOMP BOMP BOMP BOMP TSSS BOMP TSSS BOMP TSSSS etc.

[Bikerpunk]

Frequent exchange I have:

OTHER PERSON: "Why don't you play an ELECTRONIC drumset? That way you don't make any noise."

ME: "Why don't you go fuck a fleshlight the rest of your life, that way you don't get any diseases."

[Raza]

Well, tbh, you can do a lot more with electronic music. The spectrum of sounds you can make with unedited voice and normal drums and guitar gets dull after a while. Certainly there's many musicians that still do awesome and creative things with them, but your average rock band's sound is utterly nondistinct nowadays.

Performing on an actual instrument has its virtues - ones that many electronic bands lack and that leaves a terrible gap at live performances - but electronic instruments and digital editing and mixing offers a lot of things that classic instruments alone cannot. It's rather silly to get pissed off at being reminded of that or to restrict yourself out of sheer conservative pride, if music is your trade.

[batzilla]

Queer Rights
This is obviously a personal one for me. I believe that people can advocate most effectively for things that affect them personally, so that's why I list fairness and respect for fags/dykes/trannies/queermos(es?) in my top 5 even though there are more direly pressing issues in the world. I don't make it into an activism thing that I talk about all the time, but I won't equivocate about who I am or what I'm into, and I'll state my views, sometimes at length, when the subject comes up. I think that honesty is the most important way to forward this agenda. It's easy for people to think that gays are all freaks if they think they don't know any gays, or that bi folks don't really exist if they think they don't know any bisexuals. Visibility!

Green and Sustainable Cities
Cities are our future. As the human population continues to grow, we're going to have to live in more concentrated spaces if we don't want to rip up every scrap of land on the planet. Cities can be much more energy efficient than suburbs, since the proximity of services and institutions cuts down on the need for travel. Moreover, they're just awesome. Human culture flourishes in cities, scenes form, experimentation takes place. Renaissances happen in cities. But our cities are often not so easy to live in. They can be bleak, polluted, inefficient and draining. We can do so much to improve quality of life for city-dwellers and to make cities balms to the soul and to the planet... we have the tools for it now. Parks, tree-lined boulevards, community gardens and other green spaces are essential. So are quality transit, recycling systems, local food production, stormwater management and green building techniques like solar panels and green roofs. There's so much that falls under this umbrella that it's really more like 50 sub-issues. I am lucky enough to be involved in this field/movement via my work, and I try to educate others when appropriate and support org's that support cities, such as the Project for Public Spaces.

Environmental Conservation
Does this one really even require an explanation? Let's not destroy our atmosphere, water and soil, k thx. We just have the one inhabitable planet here. Let's keep it healthy and maybe, while we're at it, preserve ecosystems and organisms so that we can learn from them and enjoy them, instead of paving them over for yet another strip mall parking lot. I don't always live up to my ideals on this one... I'm not exactly living off the grid... but I try to do little things like use compact fluorescent bulbs, recycle, bike instead of drive now and then, etc. And, like everything else I've listed so far, I talk it up when I get the opportunity.

Reproductive Rights
Another personal one. Do not tell me how to live my sexual life or what to carry in my womb. Also, do we really need to continue exponentially expanding our population until we're totally boned? No, no we do not. I live this ideal by having sex with literally anyone who asks, and by performing free abortions in the parking lot behind my house.

Education and Empowerment
So, this is another huge catch-all. Basically, I think that everyone deserves the opportunity to learn about what the hell is going on in their world and to get a chance to impact it. This means a bunch of things. It means quality early-childhood education for everybody, it means micro-grants to women in third-world countries who want to start small businesses but would never in a zillion years get the opportunity to do so otherwise, it means meaningful community participation in public decision-making, and it means a lot else besides. If things were run with these principles in mind, I think we'd have a much less fucked up world. I get to do a little bit with this in my work, and I can rarely resist the urge to help someone learn about any important issue, really. Aside from that, this one is more abstract for me -- I'm not involved with my local schools or anything.

Amelia, what are your 5 things?

[Bikerpunk]

Well, tbh, you can do a lot more with electronic music. The spectrum of sounds you can make with unedited voice and normal drums and guitar gets dull after a while. Certainly there's many musicians that still do awesome and creative things with them, but your average rock band's sound is utterly nondistinct nowadays.

Euh

if that's the case why is most electronic music

wwwooaamaaaGGGHaaaaaaa THE SYSTEM IS DOWN

THE SYSTEM IS DOWN

BOM BOM
BOM BOM
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
(repeat until throwing up occurs)

Now, I **LOVE** Combichrist, but only because it's played live.

[Bikerpunk]

Max Roach can do more with a snare and a drumstick than most Industrial bands can do with $50,000 worth of synth gear.

[Buster Friendly]

Yeah, but Max Roach didn't build my Hotrod.

Electronic music isn't killing live music, and you know it.

A culture that does not value art in ANY of it's forms beyond what can turn a quick profit is killing live music. Witness the plight of classical music these days, it's a dying art form because the audience, and funding has eroded. Not because of some kid with a cassio tone.

Talk thee no shit about my electronic music.

[Bikerpunk]

It sure as hell is.

Why pay musicians when you can hire someone with a case of CDs to buck his head back and forth mixing them?

[Buster Friendly]

Dude, you're full of shit, and sound like you're whining.

This isn't an "either/or" issue, it's a both/AND.

But what the fuck ever, I'll let you blubber your put upon sensitive artiste soul out tonight.

I get to listen to live music AND electronic music... fuck, I even get to go listen to electronic acts LIVE... ooooh, spooky... DJ Spooky even

[Bikerpunk]

Uh, I also listen to electronic music.

AND

it is killing live music.

ME NOT EQUAL FULL OF SHIT

just like how Corel Draw made a bunch of talentless fucks think they were graphic designers, Synth programming has made every guy with a mohawk and the knowledge of how to program in minor thirds in 4/4 time a musician.

[Buster Friendly]

Dude, crawl back under your bitter rock for the night BP.

I don't know who these talentless fucks with mohawks which you speak of.

But I do know Amon Tobin.

And I don't know who these talentless people are because I hear the talented and forget the rest.

Electronic musical devices are simply new tools for folks with talent to explore, learn to use, and create with. Some of whom might not have been interested in traditional musical instruments.

And yeah, you so full of shit we can tell how old you are by the age, and number of fly larvae that are crawling around on ya...

[Bikerpunk]

Easy, Buster. Easy.

I'll say this again. ***I LISTEN TO ELECTRONIC MUSIC***

But MOST OF IT IS SHIT
and
It is killing live music.

Insult me all you want but you know I'm right.

[Mr Karl]

BP, you gota get out more............no matter where you are in the world you will always find live music, in TO you can probably find close to a hundred venues downtown(I don't think I'm really exagerating too much either) and thats not including north of egliton or mississauga or orangeville or even in the boonies like guelph, I know they gots live music there. And I'm just talking about canada here.

[Bikerpunk]

KillLING

not killED

CBGB's is no more. The Crocodile Club is now high rise yuppie condos.

[Mr Karl]

and after reading your last post, I have to say I've heard so much shit live music that I don't bother with it anymore

[Mr Karl]

KillLING

not killED

CBGB's is no more. The Crocodile Club is now high rise yuppie condos.

who'd want to hang out at those dumps?

[Bikerpunk]

Yeah, but there's a certain barrier to entry live music wise.

Actually learning enough about an instrument to make noise with it.

*plug in* *push button* OONCE OONCE OONCE
YAY now I can put more effort into what really matters !!!! a douchebag haircut!!!! 11111!11ELEVENTY

[Buster Friendly]

Insult me all you want but you know I'm right.

What the fuck are you talking about?

You, your own damn self know for a fact that you're WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Guess what?

MOST LIVE MUSIC IS SHIT TOO!

Just fucking awful. I work with musicians, they are forced to play bullshit for money.

But whatever, you sad sad little man.

[Buster Friendly]

KillLING

not killED

CBGB's is no more. The Crocodile Club is now high rise yuppie condos.

Dude, CBGB's was killed by real estate development, and gentrification.

As per my original comment about a lack of interest in culture, or education about art in our current society.

Get a grip, quit you're sissy ass bawling, and grow a pair already.

[Bikerpunk]

Buster:

I do believe I've refrained from making personal attacks against other people here.

Do me the same honour, or fuck off.

[Buster Friendly]

Tell me to fuck off all you want, you're wrong and you know it Spanky!

Aaah, you're fulla beans!

[OliX]

It's called evolution.

[Buster Friendly]

It's called evolution.

Yeah, well Olix... we've got whiners about that one too if I recall...

This is for BP, and olive branch... or a fig leaf... I can never remember which one's for what...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iJjkrd-R8

[mystoo]

BP, you gota get out more............no matter where you are in the world you will always find live music, in TO you can probably find close to a hundred venues downtown(I don't think I'm really exagerating too much either) and thats not including north of egliton or mississauga or orangeville or even in the boonies like guelph, I know they gots live music there. And I'm just talking about canada here.

boonies like guelph! dude...ok you got me there BUT....Guelph has always been huge for live music. Forgotten Rebels. All. Burn 51, Fugazi, Dayglo Abortions, Ice T.Real McKenzies. etc. So many great bands have passed through here. Not to mention the tons of local bands that come out of Guelph.But, back in the day there was a huge 'rave' scene as well. Capitaol J, DJ Czech, Freaky Flow etc. Whatever. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I listen to it ALL. and it's all fuckin great. It's just a matter of being open minded enough to realize that great fucking music is great fucking music regardless of genre/stereotype/whatever you think it is.
Fuck, I'm drunk and I'm rambling but it all makes sense to me.

[Rockwulf]

There is technology that can free 90% of labor workers of work. Making production almost 90% times cheaper.

Well that's awesome, assuming you're not a labor worker and would still like to feed your family...

[Raza]

Well that's awesome, assuming you're not a labor worker and would still like to feed your family...

It's awesome either way, provided we do away with capitalism and the silly need to create more work and produce more products than anyone needs simply to keep money flowing.

[Raza]

Euh

if that's the case why is most electronic music

wwwooaamaaaGGGHaaaaaaa THE SYSTEM IS DOWN

THE SYSTEM IS DOWN

BOM BOM
BOM BOM
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE
(repeat until throwing up occurs)

Now, I **LOVE** Combichrist, but only because it's played live.

Heavy beats are a musical preference, they don't preclude quality and complexity in the same track. The reason that most lack this is half that average music of any genre will be mediocre - see my comment about the average rock track and the indistinguishable, homogenous masses of guitar and percussion that make up most of it - and half that for some genres of electronic music, most audiences are willing to take enough drugs to make up for the difference.

Combichrist is a great example of hard BANG BANG BANG electronic music that often has a whole load of complex, interesting and synergetic things going on beside the beats, but what do you mean by 'because it's played live'? The only combichrist plays that are live are live performances, exactly like with every other band. Besides, I've seen them live a dozen times, and there's definitely bands that get more added by the performance. CC is just very good music.

[batzilla]

Easy, Buster. Easy.

I'll say this again. ***I LISTEN TO ELECTRONIC MUSIC***

But MOST OF IT IS SHIT
and
It is killing live music.

Insult me all you want but you know I'm right.

How is repeating yourself, but this time in caps, helping your case?

[Bikerpunk]

Because it's obvious some people weren't listening the first time.

"If Electronic Music makes anything possible, why is so much of it the same derivative crap?"
"Yeah, but what about (three artists?)"
"What part of "most of it" was read to mean all?"

"Electronic music is killing live music. Synth players are replacing string players, drum machines are replacing players"
"That's not true I saw a punk band last week"

*throws up hands*
I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Or are various board members going to continue in the "BP is a sad pathetic old pile of shit who doesn't understand synths?"