Have you noticed the election making Americans more jerky this week?

[Morning Glory]

it was already illegal, pretty much what this law is is to make it so that we can't have a vote to overturn that decision. So if we ever did want to legalize it, we'd have to overturn this new law first. fuckin lame.

PS. oh, that thread I was talking about specifically was about people pissed that obama was elected.

[Raza]

actually riots suck for cops... i don't know many people in riot-control units that actually like it... rioters can kill you and you are supposed to just prevent them from rioting... see what happens to a cop that kills a rioter... legal nightmare... so the playing field isn't quite fair when each side has different rules... tear gas isn't really that bad it just takes the fight out of you ... but try being a cop who gets hit with a molotov cocktail...

A rioter killing a cop will generally face worse than a 'legal nightmare' of the kind that usually ends in little more than the loss of their job. In the end, both sides get judged by the 'rules' of the law, but the cops get a lot less critical a look.

I'm also not sure that cops are less dangerous. I the average rioter is not out to kill cops any more than the cop is out to kill them - you don't need a superior officer telling you this before the fight starts, it's just not the object. And while their weapons aren't always as deliberately non-lethal, they're a lot less high-powered, and riot control has counters and defenses effective against most of them.

[jonny.illuminati]

A rioter killing a cop will generally face worse than a 'legal nightmare' of the kind that usually ends in little more than the loss of their job. In the end, both sides get judged by the 'rules' of the law, but the cops get a lot less critical a look.

I'm also not sure that cops are less dangerous. I the average rioter is not out to kill cops any more than the cop is out to kill them - you don't need a superior officer telling you this before the fight starts, it's just not the object. And while their weapons aren't always as deliberately non-lethal, they're a lot less high-powered, and riot control has counters and defenses effective against most of them.

not true in many places in America now... the double standard has reversed... police officers are under more stress than the average criminal due to the internet media cell phones video etc... plus you have police commissioners looking at political careers and such... looking to make examples of bad cops (a good thing) or scapegoats when the shit goes wrong (a bad thing)

if an anonymous rioter tosses a cocktail onto a cop and he burns to death it is hard to find him... since everyone has a camera on the cops if a cop does something, its on the internet and news in 5 minutes...

i have been a victim of this type of scrutiny many times before and i have some friends who are cops (not bad, not on the take, just serving their city to the best of their capacity) who have been screwed before...

[Amelia G]

Obnoxious bicycle people anyone?

[Buster Friendly]

Obnoxious bicycle people anyone?

Amelia we've been around, and around with the 'obnoxious bicycle' thing before.

You remember it, don't you?

When bicyclists start killing as many car drivers as cars kill bicyclists (motorcyclists, and pedestrians) then I will gladly entertain your complaints about "obnoxiousness" from cyclists.

Mmmmmm, this subject makes me grind my teeth.

[mystoo]

I think I'm missing something here. What's the deal with obnoxious bicyclists?

[Buster Friendly]

I think I'm missing something here. What's the deal with obnoxious bicyclists?

Don't ask.

Don't tell.

You don't wanna know.

Seriously.

[Amelia G]

Amelia we've been around, and around with the 'obnoxious bicycle' thing before.

You remember it, don't you?

When bicyclists start killing as many car drivers as cars kill bicyclists (motorcyclists, and pedestrians) then I will gladly entertain your complaints about "obnoxiousness" from cyclists.

Mmmmmm, this subject makes me grind my teeth.

Uhm, I don't think I've ever participated in a convo about this on here before, although I might have, as it is not new that this group is being obnoxious. I have no problem with people riding bicycles. It is healthy and saves on gas.

I do have a problem with the en masse bicycle rides that the West Coast version of Critical Mass does. They deliberately try to be upsetting to people around them and are clearly hoping to incite some people, ideally police officers, into behaving hostile. When a couple hundred people on bicycles regularly ride through residential neighborhoods late at night, making a ton of noise, waking up other people who have early morning work hours, waking up other people's kids who have school, pissing on other people's lawns, and vandalizing other people's cars, then, yes, I think it is fair to call that obnoxious. Do you think people who drive get a pass for that type of behavior?

[OliX]

I wanna know.

[Morning Glory]

When a couple hundred people on bicycles regularly ride through residential neighborhoods late at night, making a ton of noise, waking up other people who have early morning work hours, waking up other people's kids who have school, pissing on other people's lawns, and vandalizing other people's cars, then, yes, I think it is fair to call that obnoxious. Do you think people who drive get a pass for that type of behavior?

Ok. cars:

A. driving by the hundreds.

B. making lots of noise

C. leaking out chemicals onto grassy areas

D. causing damage to other people's cars.

Yeah, I'd say that they get a pass on this behavior. wouldn't you? That happens every single day.

I understand that you won't change hearts and minds by being an asshole, but it seems like these bike people are just trying to make it as obnoxious for car drivers as cars routinely make them feel.

PS. but yeah, I'm almost positive that we did have a thread about this subject before and everyone just got pissed off at each other.

[Ubiquitress]

hee hee .i too have seen the obnoxious bicyclists,it can get over the top,but I have also been a bicyclist in bay area for several years and damn near got killed by buses,cars,vans etc. in my simple attempt to get around town.anything with wheels can make a human crazy and or obnoxious,its our need for speed and it makes us loopy no matter what kind of roundy you ride.

[Toe Cutter]

Not this critical mass bullshit again. Fuck this thread!

[Ubiquitress]

uh oh I dont know the before.pardon me if this is a bad or sore conversation,run awayy!!!

[Amelia G]

Ok. cars:

A. driving by the hundreds.

B. making lots of noise

C. leaking out chemicals onto grassy areas

D. causing damage to other people's cars.

Yeah, I'd say that they get a pass on this behavior. wouldn't you? That happens every single day.

I understand that you won't change hearts and minds by being an asshole, but it seems like these bike people are just trying to make it as obnoxious for car drivers as cars routinely make them feel.

PS. but yeah, I'm almost positive that we did have a thread about this subject before and everyone just got pissed off at each other.

I don't get groups of my friends to drive into residential neighborhoods at night and all scream out our car windows in unison.

I don't park on other people's lawns.

I don't crowd bicycle riders in the street.

My car is extremely quiet. When I first bought it, I kept thinking it was not turned on when it was.

So I think it pretty reasonable for me to be annoyed when the bike riders make noise where I live, piss on my lawn, and kick my car or hit it with sticks as they drive by in the street.

Not one single person I know personally, who does those rides, is green. Not one. Punk and angry, sure, but not green.

[mystoo]

.

I do have a problem with the en masse bicycle rides that the West Coast version of Critical Mass does. They deliberately try to be upsetting to people around them and are clearly hoping to incite some people, ideally police officers, into behaving hostile. When a couple hundred people on bicycles regularly ride through residential neighborhoods late at night, making a ton of noise, waking up other people who have early morning work hours, waking up other people's kids who have school, pissing on other people's lawns, and vandalizing other people's cars

Oohhhhhhhhhh...I can't say I've ever seen anything like that here. Bizzaro world.

[Morning Glory]

Not one single person I know personally, who does those rides, is green. Not one. Punk and angry, sure, but not green.

so you are saying that no one does those things you mentioned above? Of course they do. there are bad apples in every bunch. I drive a car, but I don't drive like an asshole either, and all the people I know that ride bikes for primary transport are the nicest folks I know and there is no bad blood between them and motorists, at least on their end.

why do you hang around with people that are like that? I know that the people who started critical mass did it for "green" reasons and not just to be assholes. I believe you when you say that many of them now are just jerks looking for an excuse, but I'm not really sure what the point is. does it mean that people should not bicycle and engage in community organizations? that seems absurd to me.

I'd love to live in a world where everyone rode a bike and it was practical to do so, and I respect the people that make their life more difficult to achieve that aim. I don't really have any love for car culture and oil addiction/ pollution.

It seems like all the people that want to make progress and change in society do is fight against other factions of people that want to do the same thing and not against the power structure. it's self-defeating from the start.

sure, people are responsible for their own actions, and there is no excuse for being a mean person. but the larger symptom is the lack of choices that make us choose sides that can't be compatible with each other. that's what needs to change, not just getting rid of one or the other.

[Amelia G]

so you are saying that no one does those things you mentioned above? Of course they do. there are bad apples in every bunch. I drive a car, but I don't drive like an asshole either, and all the people I know that ride bikes for primary transport are the nicest folks I know and there is no bad blood between them and motorists, at least on their end.

why do you hang around with people that are like that? I know that the people who started critical mass did it for "green" reasons and not just to be assholes. I believe you when you say that many of them now are just jerks looking for an excuse, but I'm not really sure what the point is. does it mean that people should not bicycle and engage in community organizations? that seems absurd to me.

I'd love to live in a world where everyone rode a bike and it was practical to do so, and I respect the people that make their life more difficult to achieve that aim. I don't really have any love for car culture and oil addiction/ pollution.

It seems like all the people that want to make progress and change in society do is fight against other factions of people that want to do the same thing and not against the power structure. it's self-defeating from the start.

sure, people are responsible for their own actions, and there is no excuse for being a mean person. but the larger symptom is the lack of choices that make us choose sides that can't be compatible with each other. that's what needs to change, not just getting rid of one or the other.

Of course there are jerks who drive cars.

I mentioned the bicycle rides in response to the topic of police being put in uncomfortable positions by demonstrators.

Critical Mass and various other group bike rides may be intended as peaceful green protest.

Speaking only from my own experiences with the mass bike rides they have in Los Angeles (which are similar to Critical Mass but I believe not the same org), those are definitely situations where a group of people with recording equipment try to start trouble in the hopes that someone will react badly.

I was just giving an example where that happens to those entrusted with keeping the peace, not saying that all bike riders are evil or all car drivers are good.

[Buster Friendly]

Not this critical mass bullshit again. Fuck this thread!

With apologies to Toe Cutter

Sorry buddy.

Some of my worst misbehavior here on the Ol' BlooBlud can probably be found on the last critical mass thread. (Maybe- god I'm such a dick )

In recognition of the fact that I'm doing really, really well in life right now- I'll try to give a neutralish cliff notes version of my opinion on this, and then just refer anyone to that thread. Just imagine me screaming all that shit to virtually any response here...

Amelia- I don't recall you participating in that conversation, but pretty much anything you say was probably covered there.

1-Pretty much anything MG says here.

2-People close to me have been killed and maimed by the drivers of cars while bicycling, and motorcycling.

3-I have been attacked, and threatened by car drivers while riding bikes, and just plain walking in a responsible manner.

4-People trying to kill me kind of makes my brain go haywire. I'm funny like that.

anyway-bearing all that in mind, I'm going to mostly cop out of any discussion about this tonight. Maybe later.

[Amelia G]

With apologies to Toe Cutter

Sorry buddy.

Some of my worst misbehavior here on the Ol' BlooBlud can probably be found on the last critical mass thread. (Maybe- god I'm such a dick )

In recognition of the fact that I'm doing really, really well in life right now- I'll try to give a neutralish cliff notes version of my opinion on this, and then just refer anyone to that thread. Just imagine me screaming all that shit to virtually any response here...

Amelia- I don't recall you participating in that conversation, but pretty much anything you say was probably covered there.

1-Pretty much anything MG says here.

2-People close to me have been killed and maimed by the drivers of cars while bicycling, and motorcycling.

3-I have been attacked, and threatened by car drivers while riding bikes, and just plain walking in a responsible manner.

4-People trying to kill me kind of makes my brain go haywire. I'm funny like that.

anyway-bearing all that in mind, I'm going to mostly cop out of any discussion about this tonight. Maybe later.

People in cars should not threaten or attack other people or their property for no reason.

People on bicycles should not threaten or attack other people or their property for no reason.

People should not threaten or attack other people or their property for no reason.