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Thread: You knew it was just a matter of time....

  1. #1
    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Sometimes, I'm so embarrassed that I'm white....

    Election spurs 'hundreds' of race threats, crimes

    Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:21 PM EST
    The Associated Press
    By JESSE WASHINGTON AP National Writer


    Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.
    Incidents around the country referring to President-elect Barack Obama are dampening the postelection glow of racial progress and harmony, highlighting the stubborn racism that remains in America.
    From California to Maine, police have documented a range of alleged crimes, from vandalism and vague threats to at least one physical attack. Insults and taunts have been delivered by adults, college students and second-graders.
    There have been "hundreds" of incidents since the election, many more than usual, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate crimes.
    One was in Snellville, Ga., where Denene Millner said a boy on the school bus told her 9-year-old daughter the day after the election: "I hope Obama gets assassinated." That night, someone trashed her sister-in-law's front lawn, mangled the Obama lawn signs, and left two pizza boxes filled with human feces outside the front door, Millner said.
    She described her emotions as a combination of anger and fear.
    "I can't say that every white person in Snellville is evil and anti-Obama and willing to desecrate my property because one or two idiots did it," said Millner, who is black. "But it definitely makes you look a little different at the people who you live with, and makes you wonder what they're capable of and what they're really thinking."
    Potok, who is white, said he believes there is "a large subset of white people in this country who feel that they are losing everything they know, that the country their forefathers built has somehow been stolen from them."
    Grant Griffin, a 46-year-old white Georgia native, expressed similar sentiments: "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change.
    "If you had real change it would involve all the members of (Obama's) church being deported," he said.
    Change in whatever form does not come easy, and a black president is "the most profound change in the field of race this country has experienced since the Civil War," said William Ferris, senior associate director of the Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina. "It's shaking the foundations on which the country has existed for centuries."
    "Someone once said racism is like cancer," Ferris said. "It's never totally wiped out, it's in remission."
    If so, America's remission lasted until the morning of Nov. 5.
    The day after the vote hailed as a sign of a nation changed, black high school student Barbara Tyler of Marietta, Ga., said she heard hateful Obama comments from white students, and that teachers cut off discussion about Obama's victory.
    Tyler spoke at a press conference by the Georgia chapter of the NAACP calling for a town hall meeting to address complaints from across the state about hostility and resentment. Another student, from a Covington middle school, said he was suspended for wearing an Obama shirt to school Nov. 5 after the principal told students not to wear political paraphernalia.
    The student's mother, Eshe Riviears, said the principal told her: "Whether you like it or not, we're in the South, and there are a lot of people who are not happy with this decision."
    Other incidents include:
    —Four North Carolina State University students admitted writing anti-Obama comments in a tunnel designated for free speech expression, including one that said: "Let's shoot that (N-word) in the head." Obama has received more threats than any other president-elect, authorities say.
    —At Standish, Maine, a sign inside the Oak Hill General Store read: "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool." Customers could sign up to bet $1 on a date when Obama would be killed. "Stabbing, shooting, roadside bombs, they all count," the sign said. At the bottom of the marker board was written "Let's hope someone wins."
    —Racist graffiti was found in places including New York's Long Island, where two dozen cars were spray-painted; Kilgore, Texas, where the local high school and skate park were defaced; and the Los Angeles area, where swastikas, racial slurs and "Go Back To Africa" were spray painted on sidewalks, houses and cars.
    —Second- and third-grade students on a school bus in Rexburg, Idaho, chanted "assassinate Obama," a district official said.
    —University of Alabama professor Marsha L. Houston said a poster of the Obama family was ripped off her office door. A replacement poster was defaced with a death threat and a racial slur. "It seems the election brought the racist rats out of the woodwork," Houston said.
    —Black figures were hanged by nooses from trees on Mount Desert Island, Maine, the Bangor Daily News reported. The president of Baylor University in Waco, Texas said a rope found hanging from a campus tree was apparently an abandoned swing and not a noose.
    —Crosses were burned in yards of Obama supporters in Hardwick, N.J., and Apolacan Township, Pa.
    —A black teenager in New York City said he was attacked with a bat on election night by four white men who shouted 'Obama.'
    —In the Pittsburgh suburb of Forest Hills, a black man said he found a note with a racial slur on his car windshield, saying "now that you voted for Obama, just watch out for your house."
    Emotions are often raw after a hard-fought political campaign, but now those on the losing side have an easy target for their anger.
    "The principle is very simple," said BJ Gallagher, a sociologist and co-author of the diversity book "A Peacock in the Land of Penguins." "If I can't hurt the person I'm angry at, then I'll vent my anger on a substitute, i.e., someone of the same race."
    "We saw the same thing happen after the 9-11 attacks, as a wave of anti-Muslim violence swept the country. We saw it happen after the Rodney King verdict, when Los Angeles blacks erupted in rage at the injustice perpetrated by 'the white man.'"
    "It's as stupid and ineffectual as kicking your dog when you've had a bad day at the office," Gallagher said. "But it happens a lot."

  2. #2
    VoltaireBlue's Avatar just is
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    I'm absolutely shocked. what the fuck is wrong with people?

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    mystoo's Avatar Pirate Hooker
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Are you really that shocked? Too much faith in humanity maybe?

  4. #4

    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Frankly, this isn't such a bad score. 'Hundreds' of threats, with a black president elected to a country of many millions? 'Vandalism, vague threats and at least one physical attack attributed to the election aftermath? And, oh dear, 'insults and taunts being delivered'!

    We all knew there would be this news article, summarising the nation-wide racial backlash of the election. Looking at it now, frankly, I see it having to put a lot of effort into looking quite as significant as it wants to be.

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    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    I agree with Raza that the news seems to be looking really hard to try to find racial nonsense to poke with a stick. At least my local Los Angeles news is really trying to put out there that the black and Latino votes are what made the anti-gay married Prop 8 pass. I've honestly been sitting in a state of shock at news trying to tell California to blame it all on those mean-spirited minorities. Like WTF?

    Is the news media seriously trying to convince Americans that it would be totally normal for the right to threaten black citizenry and the left to blame them for bigotry against homosexuals? Is racism really the only tool left in the status quo toolbox?

  6. #6
    Vexbeast's Avatar Eat me, I'm nutritious.
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    I find articles that quote lots of people before introducing them with no explanation as to why they're significant leave an aftertaste of sensationalism in my mouth.

    I especially like the part where it specifically mentions 'Millner, who is black.' since I'm pretty sure anyone willing to defecate in a pizza box in order to spread their message would target anyone that has Obama signs on their lawn...

    Is it even necessary I reflect the general sentiment that these people are fucking idiots?

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    it is interesting to reflect on the type of responses being reported here, and their level of vitriol, venom, and violent sentiment.

    I do recall quite a bit of outrage about both bush victories, but leaving shit on door steps, open calls for assassination, wide spread lynching of effigies, and violence were not among the responses that I remember.

    Prop 8 is something else again, a very special brand of bullshit.

  8. #8

    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia G
    At least my local Los Angeles news is really trying to put out there that the black and Latino votes are what made the anti-gay married Prop 8 pass. I've honestly been sitting in a state of shock at news trying to tell California to blame it all on those mean-spirited minorities. Like WTF?

    Is the news media seriously trying to convince Americans that it would be totally normal for the right to threaten black citizenry and the left to blame them for bigotry against homosexuals? Is racism really the only tool left in the status quo toolbox?
    I think you aught to ask first though, Isn't it?

    Blaming racial minorities for discrimination against homosexuals isn't your classic bit of either conservative nor liberal dogma. So if it's not true, who's pushing it, and why?

    I don't know how racial and political demographics overlap in the US, but overhere this is becoming fairly difficult ground; progressive political streams promoting tolerance towards the increasing muslim population, which itself is staunchly conservative concerning any issue but its own acceptance. Speaking badly of even something purely ideological as their religion is frowned upon in a general sense, largely by the very groups that would stand up to the same things coming from, say, the christian right. In a political climate like that, politically correct leftist-conservative nanny governments profit.

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Raza

    Blaming racial minorities for discrimination against homosexuals isn't your classic bit of either conservative nor liberal dogma. So if it's not true, who's pushing it, and why?

    t.
    Um... actually it is true.

    Black and Latino communities are notoriously homophobic in the US. And I believe specifically in the instance of prop.8 voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage. Exit polls reflect this I'm pretty sure.

    Now then, prop.8 was bank rolled in large part by the moron...oop, I mean mormon church, which is notoriously historically racist. So yeah, way to go democracy.

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    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Raza
    I think you aught to ask first though, Isn't it?

    Blaming racial minorities for discrimination against homosexuals isn't your classic bit of either conservative nor liberal dogma. So if it's not true, who's pushing it, and why?

    I don't know how racial and political demographics overlap in the US, but overhere this is becoming fairly difficult ground; progressive political streams promoting tolerance towards the increasing muslim population, which itself is staunchly conservative concerning any issue but its own acceptance. Speaking badly of even something purely ideological as their religion is frowned upon in a general sense, largely by the very groups that would stand up to the same things coming from, say, the christian right. In a political climate like that, politically correct leftist-conservative nanny governments profit.

    A lot of American politics is presented as left vs. right, but much of it boils down to status quo and new day, same stuff, with very little real choice or opportunity for improvement. This past election, Americans were disgusted enough that a number of candidates perceived as outsiders made unusually strong showings and one of them won.

    There is no question that politically correct liberal-identified Americans are down on bigotry towards either blacks or homosexuals, so the best way to make them nostalgic for business as usual is to convince them that the blacks are all bigots too. Then they don't really have a side they can pick and be comfortable on.

    In frustrating economic times, telling patriotic right-identified Americans that it is totally okay to go vandalize posters of the President Elect and act completely racist because everybody is doing it, is a great way to get people who really are not that racist to act out.

    Maybe a bunch of newscasters laid odds in Vegas and lost a bundle on the election. More likely, they worked hard to gain a certain access in the world as they knew it and they don't like the idea that their carefully built existence might change in any significant way.

  11. #11
    keiko's Avatar baker of geekery
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    sadly i'm not shocked. i was once thrown off a second story balcony for being friends with a girl who was black.

    one of my favourite stories to tell is the day i first fell off my bike. i was coming home from laura's house, i hit a patch of red dirt on the road that was too soft for my semi-flat tire and i was going too slow, so i wiped out. 7 years old at the oldest, sitting in the middle of the street crying with a skinned knee, all blond curls and a blue gingham dress. a very nice man in a buick with a jesus fish on the bumper stopped and helped me up. he put my bike in the trunk and drove me the two blocks to my house. my mother was furious. not because i was hurt, not because i was late, not because i had ridden home with a stranger, but because the strange i had ridden home with, was black. it shocks me to this day that she reacted that way.

    i actually had to tell off my dad for using the N-word over the fourth of july. i can almost hold my tongue when my 73yr old grandad with Alzheimer's says "spook", but my DAD?? that one threw me.

    i wonder seriously how i am related to these people sometimes.

    ~K

  12. #12

    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    The question I have is why the first reason someone might not like Obama is because of his race and not his politics?

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainline_Iodine
    The question I have is why the first reason someone might not like Obama is because of his race and not his politics?
    Well a person might dislike Obama's imaginary socialist politics primarily, but if they set a cross on fire in protest, they're just another racist shitheel.

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    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by mystoo
    Are you really that shocked? Too much faith in humanity maybe?
    Don't blame humanity for this, blame dumb Americans.

    I don't remember if it was here or elsewhere, but someone else pointed out the fact that this is the only country that fought a war over slavery, everyone else just got together and said, you know what? that is a bad idea, and then abolished it purely through legislation. And look at them today. Is black/white racial tension a big problem in Europe?

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    Mr Karl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    dumb people who live in the country between canada and mexico is right

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    The Civil war wasn't fought over slavery. The Confederate States Of America withdrew from the Union over the issue of states rights. They favored the idea of a weak central government and a strong state government, a confederacy, over the idea of a strong central government and weak state government, a Union.
    The Emancipation Proclamation was signed after the start of the American Civil War.

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    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    I am familiar with American history. I know that slavery wasn't the cause of the civil war, but it's outcome was a determining factor in abolition, so I think that my point is a fair comparison.

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    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Karl
    dumb people who live in the country between canada and mexico is right
    That is right. U.S. Americans are dumb because of the racism we have here. Unlike those Canadians. No racism there whatsoever. Ummm....Can you tell us all about "First Nation" people btw?...Because I'm pretty sure they have a bone to pick with Canadians when it comes to racism.

  19. #19

    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Sure, by ratio, it might not seem too bad. The fact it still goes on, though....I can't even find a word to describe it. I just don't understand.

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainline_Iodine
    The Civil war wasn't fought over slavery. The Confederate States Of America withdrew from the Union over the issue of states rights. They favored the idea of a weak central government and a strong state government, a confederacy, over the idea of a strong central government and weak state government, a Union.
    The Emancipation Proclamation was signed after the start of the American Civil War.
    Hmmm. I am curious though, what was it that the confederate states wanted their strong state governments for?

    Increasing abolitionist sentiment in the north, and bloody disputes about the free/slave status of new territories/new states had nothing to do with it I'm sure.

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    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    Don't blame humanity for this, blame dumb Americans.

    I don't remember if it was here or elsewhere, but someone else pointed out the fact that this is the only country that fought a war over slavery, everyone else just got together and said, you know what? that is a bad idea, and then abolished it purely through legislation. And look at them today. Is black/white racial tension a big problem in Europe?
    What is the black/white ratio in Europe? Take "black" out of the equation and there's PLENTY of racism in Europe and minorities are mostly at the center of that racism.

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    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainline_Iodine
    The Civil war wasn't fought over slavery. The Confederate States Of America withdrew from the Union over the issue of states rights. They favored the idea of a weak central government and a strong state government, a confederacy, over the idea of a strong central government and weak state government, a Union.
    The Emancipation Proclamation was signed after the start of the American Civil War.
    The federal government wanted to end slavery. The Confederate states wanted to leave it up to the states because they didn't want it abolished. In essense, you're right in why the war started, but at the heart of state vs. federal sruggle for stonger power, slavery had been the main topic why they had a war over who holds the conch shell.

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    The Southern States felt it was the states choice to end slavery or leave it within one's states. They knew that their economy was built upon slavery and abolishing it would ruin them, and look what happened to the southern economy with the end of slavery?(Yes I realize that it isn't easy to look at just the effect of slavery ending on the southern economy due to the costs of the war but bear with)
    In addition to this, only about 15% of southern whites owned slaves. That means 85% where too poor to have owned slaves. The slave holders didn't make up any where near the majority of the Confederate Army, there where larger issues then slavery that caused the south to leave the Union.

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
    . Unlike those Canadians. No racism there whatsoever.

    haha, Canada and it's racism.............

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    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
    What is the black/white ratio in Europe? Take "black" out of the equation and there's PLENTY of racism in Europe and minorities are mostly at the center of that racism.
    well aren't minorities always at the center of racism? I'm not sure what the exact ratio is, but it's not like there aren't any. I agree that Europe has racial problems, most places do. American has other races than just black and white also, and has had racial problems with all of them at one point or another. It just strikes me as odd that we seem to have more of a black/white problem than anywhere else.

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    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    I'm not really sure we do. I think the reason you hear more about it here is because in the U.S., Black people have more "power" than in most European Countries. When something wrong is done to a black person here, groups like the NAACP are going to make sure the American population knows about it. Their voices are heard more here and not everything is tucked away like back in the 50's.

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....


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    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    well aren't minorities always at the center of racism? I'm not sure what the exact ratio is, but it's not like there aren't any. I agree that Europe has racial problems, most places do. American has other races than just black and white also, and has had racial problems with all of them at one point or another. It just strikes me as odd that we seem to have more of a black/white problem than anywhere else.

    When I was at university, there were dorms like Womynist House and Malcolm X house where they used admission practices in violation of school housing regulations and excused it saying that minority bigotry was not actually bigotry so long as it was the oppressed people doing it.

    Civil wars tend to occur when the sides are roughly equal and not where one is a minority.

    In both Europe and the Far East, there is and has been severe bigotry to the point of enslavement, civil war, and genocide where Americans would scratch their heads and not get how there is a racial difference there. It might all look Asian to us and count as more or less one minority in America, but the Asians in Asia do not look at it that way. If we got real specific, we might not understand what differences could exist amongst roughly Slavic white people, but I assure you Eastern Europe has some horror tales to tell of things where the people felt the differences were kind of along racial lines.

    I lived in Germany during the Pershing missile riots and my boyfriend at the time was beaten up by pacifists, not because his father was an Air Force colonel or some such which might have made sense, but because he was walking with someone whose family was there with an African embassy i.e. because one of them was black and they felt that must equal American.

    When I lived in Israel, there was an incident when some Israeli military guy called some American military guys "chocolate soldiers" and the Americans interpreted this as racist and the Israelis said he just meant they were pussies. Hard to tell if that means only the Americans were bigots there or if everybody was in common ways or if some were in uncommon ways.

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    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    so anti-military pacifists beat up a guy because he was staying at the African embassy and therefor assumed to be American? I'm not really sure that you can chock that up to ideological differences, since that really makes no sense.

    I think that there are a lot of people that hate Americans and it doesn't really have anything to do with their race(s). see the picture that mystoo posted.

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    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    so anti-military pacifists beat up a guy because he was staying at the African embassy and therefor assumed to be American? I'm not really sure that you can chock that up to ideological differences, since that really makes no sense.

    I think that there are a lot of people that hate Americans and it doesn't really have anything to do with their race(s). see the picture that mystoo posted.


    I thought it was hilarious that they got beaten up by pacifists, but they didn't see the humor.

    My point is that (1) yes, minorities can be racist and (2) in Europe, for example, they might equate black with American, but that doesn't mean they are not crazy racist. For example, when I lived in Germany, it was no fun to be a Turk there, but they still came for the economic opportunities.

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia G

    For example, when I lived in Germany, it was no fun to be a Turk there, but they still came for the economic opportunities.
    yep, germany's one messed up place

  32. #32
    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    that sucks.

  33. #33

    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia G
    A lot of American politics is presented as left vs. right, but much of it boils down to status quo and new day, same stuff, with very little real choice or opportunity for improvement. This past election, Americans were disgusted enough that a number of candidates perceived as outsiders made unusually strong showings and one of them won.

    There is no question that politically correct liberal-identified Americans are down on bigotry towards either blacks or homosexuals, so the best way to make them nostalgic for business as usual is to convince them that the blacks are all bigots too. Then they don't really have a side they can pick and be comfortable on.

    In frustrating economic times, telling patriotic right-identified Americans that it is totally okay to go vandalize posters of the President Elect and act completely racist because everybody is doing it, is a great way to get people who really are not that racist to act out.

    Maybe a bunch of newscasters laid odds in Vegas and lost a bundle on the election. More likely, they worked hard to gain a certain access in the world as they knew it and they don't like the idea that their carefully built existence might change in any significant way.
    That makes sense.

  34. #34

    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    And any one here thinks that the media is un-biased or uncorrupted?

    They (the media) release what they want or what they get paid for. There was plenty that was going on with the election that wasn't announced, such as Hilary never dropped out of the presidential race after losing the Democratic primary to Obama. Any thoughts on that?
    Or that Ron Paul didn't drop out of the race after losing the Republican nomination?

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    Default Re: You knew it was just a matter of time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainline_Iodine
    Any thoughts on that?
    yeah.

    nobody gives a rat's ass.

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