will taxing smokers or cola drinkers more help the economy?

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the purpose of smoking bans is not only to keep second hand smoke out of non-smoker's hair, clothes and lungs but also to make smoking less of option for potential smokers. While this may be a pain in the ass for smokers, it'll reap its rewards in the long run since smoking itself has no actual utility except for being cool, and if you take away the cool factor, there’s not much left to sell, except cancer. People like to drink because its fun, people like to smoke cause…um…

I have no problem with smoking bans in bars. Especially in smaller venues. If you want to smoke just go to the designated open-top area.

***Nobody seems to have mentioned that the purpose of smoking bans is not only to keep second hand smoke out of non-smoker's hair, clothes and lungs but also to make smoking less of option for potential smokers***

It will not stop potential smokers because potential smokers are teenagers and young adults. They are the one's with the most dispensible cash. They have very little bills, if any, so they can blow any money they get, anyway they want. Most of them wouldn't think twice on having to spend more money to buy cigarettes.

[Mr Karl]

I just wish it was legal to have smokers only clubs, I really miss the smell of cigarettes when I go to the bar's.........now all I smell is the people, and let's face it, a few hundred drinking people in a dance club really doesn't smell all that great.

[athenahollow]

I just wish it was legal to have smokers only clubs, I really miss the smell of cigarettes when I go to the bar's.........now all I smell is the people, and let's face it, a few hundred drinking people in a dance club really doesn't smell all that great.

It is. It's called a private club. If you charge for a membership fee, you can do whatever you want.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

since smoking itself has no actual utility except for being cool, and if you take away the cool factor, there’s not much left to sell, except cancer. People like to drink because its fun, people like to smoke cause…um…

This is why the anti smoking groups are not making more progress and to be honest as an ex smoker I would expect you to no better.

Tobacco contains a powerful mood altering drug. Many people have used cigarettes as a form of self medication. Many more just like the cheap, quick high that has very little impairing effect (during the high, as opposed to alcohol that slows your response time.)

I have a similar theory about drugs. People get these wacky ideas about why people like to be intoxicated and they decide that trying to get smoking, drugs or drinking out of music videos and movies or just outright bans will have more effect than addressing the real reasons people get high and giving them reasonable outlets.

I mean, let's be honest, you are going to be hard pressed to find me many people who sniff glue and spray paint to be cool.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

But smoking cigarettes is a reasonable outlet. Shit I wouldn’t take that away from anyone. I support the of legalization of all drugs. But that freedom ends when you infringe on other people's rights. Like I said, smoke at home or go to the designated smoking area.

I was actually responding to the idea that taking away the cool factor would stop or even really slow down smoking or drug use.

My rant on where people should be allowed to is much longer since we went from the asshole smokers setting the rules (I can smoke anywhere I like, even your house) to asshole non-smokers setting the rules (you can't smoke anywhere except your own home, and only if you live alone, and your neighbors don't mind.)

I always get ranty when people can't come to a compromise on stuff though.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

taxing cigarettes is a different issue to banning smoking in public houses.

Less young adults will start smoking because, as already mentioned, a lot of people start smoking socially and if you can't smoke socially you're less likely to start. Not that i especially care, but i understand the ethos. I wasn’t even recommending the ban on that basis, just pointing out something no one seemed to have mentioned.

I never said that making cigarettes more expensive was a good thing so I'm not sure why you're telling me that. You don’t need to have studied macroeconomics to figure out that the government taxes cigarettes purely for the sake of revenue and not to promote healthier lifestyles.

Yeah...Sorry about that. I misread what you wrote.

[Morning Glory]

(you can't smoke anywhere except your own home, and only if you live alone, and your neighbors don't mind.)

I just moved into a new apartment and on the lease they made me sign a form saying that I had to go outside to smoke because I couldn't in the apartment. How is that for some bullshit?

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

On a lease it is less bullshit than a law imho of course. It is like not allowing pets or children.

If you are a half a pack a day smoker, or a moderate pipe or cigar smoker you won't do much damage, but I have seen what a serious chain smoker can do to a place in a few short months. It sucks, but it is not the same level of bullshit as mandating that, in the condo you own and probably paid a lot of money for you are no longer allowed to smoke.

Of course, depending on the layout of the building, the lease may have just prohibited you from smoking anywhere at home.

Of course, I also have problems with what a number of landlords and employers can prohibit people from doing, and HOEs. When you can blackmail someone with their lively hood or severly restricting where they can live, it curtails more freedoms than any law ever could.

[Mr Karl]

It is. It's called a private club. If you charge for a membership fee, you can do whatever you want.

not here

[karyn]

i hate when people blow smoke in my face but i also hate being told what to do. i need to research how important smoking is to the economy.

[athenahollow]

Fuck all this shit about smokers rights! what about drinker´s rights? Its illegal for me to walk down the street with a can in my hand and that doesn´t harm anyone.

And yeh, theres nothing more sorry looking than a true alcoholic but apart from that, your liver can take a lot more punishment than your lungs. You need to be a pretty hardcore drinker to fuck your liver over, not just one of those "i got so wasted last weekend" types.

I think you SHOULD be able to walk down the street drunk. As long as you aren't hurting anyone but yourself, there should be no problems whatsoever. (Then again, I think every unsuccessful suicide should be given a gun and a chance to finish the job, because fuck it, you are obviously going to try it again, and might as well get it out of the right now and save everyone the hassle of getting upset about it again in 3 months when you fail again.)

And as far as "pretty hardcore" drink things go, I don't know a single person who only smokes on the weekends. So, obviously you can't compare a smokers lung capacity to a social, weekend drunk's liver deprecation.

That's like complaining because you aren't losing weight when you are exercising 15 hours every weekend, but your neighbor exercises 3 hours a day, every day.

[nathanmbailey]

Most people start smoking before they are even of legal age to go into the bar. People are always going to smoke, banning it would be like another prohibition. It wouldn't work. I know a lot of people that started for reasons other than the so called "cool factor". Curiousity is a good reason for a lot of people, as with most drugs, including alcohol. I even know people that started because they thought it was a good way to get extra breaks because one place I worked at actually had 15 minute breaks every our for smokers, or to just relieve some of the stress.

[athenahollow]

No, I was just explaining the comparison of apples and oranges that you jumped to.

Drunks are the leading cause of physical violence and car accidents. But alcohol hasn't been taxed to death, and why not? Because the amount of truly addicted alcoholics are much much less than the people addicted to cigarettes.

It's not about people's health, it's about who they can screw more and will take it. We know that it's addicting, but when I started smoking, it was $2.00/pack. It now costs me $4 in those few short years. That's ridiculous. The government is OBVIOUSLY preying on a population of people who blatantly have an addiction that is harder to kick than most hard substance, illegal drugs.

And as far as the "shouldn't expect to be able to do it all the time" thing, again, I agree. In a closed area with shitty ventilation, I have no problem going outside and smoking. But in Indiana, we have to be 200 YARDS away from a doorway. That would equal out in the middle of the goddamn street for most places around the city. I think as long as I'm not standing directly IN a door way, in an open area like, oh, i don't know THE OUTSIDE, there shouldn't be a problem in any way.
The topic has less to do with how "healthy" can they make people become, and more to do with how much more control can they put upon a group of people, and still have them roll over and take it up the ass.

Which is, again, WHY I will be ordering my cigarettes abroad soon. If I can't smoke in the middle of a dammed park, the least I can do is tell the gov't to fuck themselves on their over-exorbitant, ass-raping taxes.

[Mr Karl]

your calling 4 bucks a pack redicoulus? smokes here are around 10 bucks, and it's pretty well against the law to smoke indoors here too, of course walking down the street with traffic fumes is no problem..............bah it's not even worth complaining, I'll just suck it up and pay the man

[athenahollow]

your calling 4 bucks a pack redicoulus? smokes here are around 10 bucks, and it's pretty well against the law to smoke indoors here too, of course walking down the street with traffic fumes is no problem..............bah it's not even worth complaining, I'll just suck it up and pay the man

It is worth complaining about when you are getting taxed a MINIMUM of 300%.

And fuck paying the man. The tobacco companies will still get my money when I order them from overseas.

[nathanmbailey]

Holly shit! 200 feet? Did they just come out with that at the new year like Illinois did last year or is it just the Indy area? Last time I was home (NW Indiana not far from Gary) I could still smoke in the bar or right outside doors.

[athenahollow]

Holly shit! 200 feet? Did they just come out with that at the new year like Illinois did last year or is it just the Indy area? Last time I was home (NW Indiana not far from Gary) I could still smoke in the bar or right outside doors.

Technically marion county. They only enforce it half-assed, but when the cops are being dicks, it's like a $75 fine each time (minimum).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#.C2.A0Indiana

[nathanmbailey]

I'm glad I'm from Porter County. If I still lived in Fort Wayne I'd be fucking pissed.

[Jax]

Last prices I knew of from the places Ive been that I can remember per pack.

Phoenix...4.00 avg
Chicago...8.50 avg
St Louis...3.50 avg
Cleveland...5.00 avg
Rapid City, SD...4.25 avg

I think Im gonna go back to rolling my own.

[athenahollow]

Last prices I knew of from the places Ive been that I can remember per pack.

Phoenix...4.00 avg
Chicago...8.50 avg
St Louis...3.50 avg
Cleveland...5.00 avg
Rapid City, SD...4.25 avg

I think Im gonna go back to rolling my own.

I'd do that if it didn't make such a mess. But I just don't need my kid knee-deep in tobacco shag haha.

And we used to buy camel filters here (back before they changed their blend and made them suck) at like $3.75 a pack, and take them to our friends in chicago and well... yea... you get the idea hah

[nathanmbailey]

Yeah, I worked at a Speedway, and Chesterton, IN is about an hour from Chicago and about an hour from Michigan. It wasn't unusual to see people come in from Illinois and Michigan to buy a few cartons because it was actually cheaper than just buying them there. Granted, that was about 4 years ago before gas prices got gaytarded. Camel's are still around 4 bucks a pack there. I prefer Turkish Golds over the filters myself, but since they don't sell those in Iraq, I'm stuck with filters or lights. Then again, I'm only paying 25 bucks for the carton, which is still too much because they're usually a little stale.

[Raza]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the purpose of smoking bans is not only to keep second hand smoke out of non-smoker's hair, clothes and lungs but also to make smoking less of option for potential smokers. While this may be a pain in the ass for smokers, it'll reap its rewards in the long run since smoking itself has no actual utility except for being cool, and if you take away the cool factor, there’s not much left to sell, except cancer. People like to drink because its fun, people like to smoke cause…um…

I have no problem with smoking bans in bars. Especially in smaller venues. If you want to smoke just go to the designated open-top area.

I dunno; personally I'd say smoking's Cool Factor pretty much doubled with the recent bans. I mean, it's a crappy drug if there's ever been one... but sitting in a cafe, smoking comfortably with friends, stangers and staff alike in common knowledge that you're giving out a collective 'fuck you' to government and law enforcement - that for every person they fine, there's five more that'll carry the tar-fume ridden torch and there's jack shit the oppressors can do about it - that's pretty awesome right there. Almost enough that I'd start smoking for the social high; and these people are not otherwise even very good company.

[Raza]

I haven't noticed that really but maybe you're right. I reckon smoking is almost past its sell by date in terms of cool though, or at least for another 250 years until it becomes retro. And then they’ll be using cigarette holders (which are the genuine article as far as cool goes).

Hear, hear. Cigarette holders are the sole other temptation smoking has ever held to me; I've made my girlfriend quite a fancy one with little bones and gems on it.

Back in my cute-and-pink days I used to put lollipops in holders like that. That started a short-lived rage in the cyber clubbing scene, too.

[bohoki]

Drinking, I feel, is way more destructive than smoking. I mean, how many people get into accidents because they had a cigarette? Haha...

well there is always the ones falling asleep with one still burning


and all those fires that are started by a smoke flinged out of a car blown into some dry grass

[Jax]

Im not talking about fires caused by cigarettes. I find while it is possible, its highly unlikely that someone takes a puff off a cigarette and then crashes their car due to the direct link from that puff.

[Morning Glory]

true story. One time my friend was driving and I was in the back seat right-side smoking and I threw the cigarette out the window and somehow it got sucked back into the car on the drivers side and flew up into my friend's shorts and caught his balls on fire, and he had to repeatedly punch himself in the crotch to put it out, and we very nearly ended up crashing wildly. So there you go.

I think I already told you the one about the guy I knew who drove home drunk and got out of the car and passed out on the lawn, only to wake up the next morning and discover it wasn't his house.

[vampyrdraven666]

ok so i didnt read it all, but heres my say. smokers should be taxed, yes. cola drinkers? hell, why not? its a caffiene addiction that can be fed elsewhere like coffee and chocolate but cola has the highest concentration of the three. i should know, im trying to quit. a few facts: caffiene is a drink deliberately put into consumed products to boost sales, it is more addictive than nicotene and is 25% harder to quit. i know from experience. i was a five year chain smoker. im lucky i dont have cancer.

booze? yeah bc its more dangerous than smoking. would i rather die by th secondhand smoke my mom puts me thru evry day or by some drunkard who hit me by a car or beat me to death bc he had no control? ill let the smoke kill me. btw i wasnt targeting men, this is a patriarical society. damn. spelled it wrong.

and smoking bans and dry laws are retarded. ppl will bring it in from outside source. illegal stuff is more fun, like weed or theft. comin from the mouth of 17 year old who's been there and done that. the area i moved from after coming to the states had a statewide public-property smokin ban. they were workin on banning it from inside cars and havin the legal right to test workers to see AND FIRE THEM if theyve been smoking at home. they were trying to force ppl to quit smoking. "its a public health risk".

[vampyrdraven666]

you wanna make ppl stop? make EVERYTHING like that legal. theyll stop after about 10yrs. i used to thieve for the rush. its still a strain not to lift stuff to get that feeling.

[athenahollow]

comin from the mouth of 17 year old who's been there and done that.

Wait? You're 17?? Anyone else seeing a major issue with this line alone?

[grebo]

the tax on fiizy drinks like coke should also apply to any food thats over a certain amount of calories, call it the fat tax

booze and cigarettes should be taxed more, use the money to make tampons free, half the population would support that

[Ajax Knucklebones]

ok so i didnt read it all, but heres my say. smokers should be taxed, yes. cola drinkers? hell, why not? its a caffiene addiction that can be fed elsewhere like coffee and chocolate but cola has the highest concentration of the three. i should know, im trying to quit. a few facts: caffiene is a drink deliberately put into consumed products to boost sales, it is more addictive than nicotene and is 25% harder to quit. i know from experience. i was a five year chain smoker. im lucky i dont have cancer.

booze? yeah bc its more dangerous than smoking. would i rather die by th secondhand smoke my mom puts me thru evry day or by some drunkard who hit me by a car or beat me to death bc he had no control? ill let the smoke kill me. btw i wasnt targeting men, this is a patriarical society. damn. spelled it wrong.

and smoking bans and dry laws are retarded. ppl will bring it in from outside source. illegal stuff is more fun, like weed or theft. comin from the mouth of 17 year old who's been there and done that. the area i moved from after coming to the states had a statewide public-property smokin ban. they were workin on banning it from inside cars and havin the legal right to test workers to see AND FIRE THEM if theyve been smoking at home. they were trying to force ppl to quit smoking. "its a public health risk".

So, should blood sucking be taxed? just wondering since until it's taxed, it's free and all. Seems a little "above the law" if tax is not included, if you ask me.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

the tax on fiizy drinks like coke should also apply to any food thats over a certain amount of calories, call it the fat tax

booze and cigarettes should be taxed more, use the money to make tampons free, half the population would support that

"Free tampons? That's Un-American!". I'm pretty sure FDR has been quoted as saying that.