Farewell dubya - you had the gift of the gaffe

[helcyon]

a legacy of memorable quotes - dailytelegraph.com.au

This will most likely be one of the last times it's worth mentioning this chap. I am one of the few who thought he was likeable mainly due to the way he understood how people would lampoon him and he would go along with it.

His "gift of the gaffe" was hilarious. The above article contains 50 quotes that he somehow managed to mangle and this link goes to a 5min video of that kind of stuff. You gotta laugh. The number 1 quote is a typical cracker:

"The problem with the French is they don't have a word for entrepeneur"

hahahaha. I doubt anyone, surely not Barrak O'Boring, will be remembered quite this way


G'bye George.... almost.... actually the right door is on your left... that'd be Texas left...

[Ajax Knucklebones]

I'm pretty sure he had the "Gift of the grift".

[jonny.illuminati]

I'm pretty sure he had the "Gift of the grift".

all politicos have that gift, republican AND democrat

[Tigerlily]

all I gotta say is
DEUCES!

[Ajax Knucklebones]

all politicos have that gift, republican AND democrat

This is true. Some of them are just better at not getting caught.

[Raza]

I'll miss the guy. Putting him at the wheel of the US was one of humanity's greatest exercises in morbid humor.

[Iggyisdead]

I won't miss him. Yeah, some of the one liners were funny, but what he kind of set the women's movement back about a 100 years what with all the anti choice legislation that he pushed. Oh, and that time he sexually harassed Angela Merkel by giving her an unwanted shoulder massage.

Good bye and good riddance to a real jack ass.

[Raza]

he kind of set the women's movement back about a 100 years what with all the anti choice legislation that he pushed. Oh, and that time he sexually harassed Angela Merkel by giving her an unwanted shoulder massage.

Yeah, that last bit covered the final remaining 7 months, 12 days.

[KitWalker2008]

Yes, ol' Dubya was hilarious!
Plunged the world into a pointless war, hysterical!
Sent thousands of his own countrymen and women to their deaths, outrageously funny! (Not to mention those of other nations.)
Wrote his own comedy routines that caused his country to become the most despised nation on earth, thigh-slappingly funny!
After 9/11 he had the sympathy of the world and what did he do?
Conjured up the old WMD's and bombed a country that had nothing to do with the attack on America.

He was a bumbling fool who lived the part, a born natural.

Gift of the gaffe? Stand aside comedians of the world, make way for the king of comedy.

[jonny.illuminati]

Yes, ol' Dubya was hilarious!
Plunged the world into a pointless war, hysterical!
Sent thousands of his own countrymen and women to their deaths, outrageously funny! (Not to mention those of other nations.)
Wrote his own comedy routines that caused his country to become the most despised nation on earth, thigh-slappingly funny!
After 9/11 he had the sympathy of the world and what did he do?
Conjured up the old WMD's and bombed a country that had nothing to do with the attack on America.

He was a bumbling fool who lived the part, a born natural.

Gift of the gaffe? Stand aside comedians of the world, make way for the king of comedy.

iraq wasn't pointless...

the men and women who died.. they volunteered...

[Raza]

Volunteering for something loses its ethical relevance once contracts become involved to negatively enforce the at one point volunteered behaviour.

[jonny.illuminati]

Volunteering for something loses its ethical relevance once contracts become involved to negatively enforce the at one point volunteered behaviour.

not true when volunteering to defend one's country... the swearing in process of the U.S. Military clearly defines that...

[Raza]

What you choose to call the contract doesn't really matter. If someone doesn't get to change their minds on pain of some sort of penalty, it doesn't count as 'voluntary'. Not in ethical terminology, leastwise; the military is of course free to use the term as they see fit, but then calling someone a volunteer doesn't mean they volunteered anymore, and the argument is still void.

[jonny.illuminati]

What you choose to call the contract doesn't really matter. If someone doesn't get to change their minds on pain of some sort of penalty, it doesn't count as 'voluntary'. Not in ethical terminology, leastwise; the military is of course free to use the term as they see fit, but then calling someone a volunteer doesn't mean they volunteered anymore, and the argument is still void.

it's a contact... technically a binding agreement either verbal or written...

the term "volunteer" with regards to military service means to voluntarily choose to sign a contract with the service of choice instead of being drafted... you have a choice to sign up or not sign up... if you do sign up it is a binding contract...

you don't have to sign up (or volunteer to serve)... and if you do... don't whine...

there are many definitions in the dictionary for the word volunteer... one of them is:

"To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will."

so unless you also choose to not believe in dictionaries, your argument is invalidated by means of word definition... (for this particular words application with regards to military service and contracts... )

your turn

[Raza]

We're using the same dictionary; the difference between my perception and yours is that you check for free will once at the start of the contract and then declare everything that happens under it afterward voluntary, whereas I hold that free will should be applied and checked for continuously.

Granted, under generous criteria they may have volunteered for what happens after under the "or offer to perform a service" variation; but again, that's a different concept with different ethical implications even if it uses the same word.

[jonny.illuminati]

if people were allowed to invalidate contracts at will.... there would be no basis for enforcing contracts whether for business/pleasure/military or other applications...

it would be anarchy (of sorts)...

contracts should involve free will but if you agree to do something, you should do it... it's not like it is a big surprise that people that serve in the military go to war or fight battles....

it doesn't require any form of "generous application"...

of ones own free will is just that... you choose to do it... if, after the terms of the contract are met, you decide not to renew the contract you have that choice... but you have to meet all contratual obligations before you get the option to continue or not...

it's not like the army or marines are offering bungalow beach vacations in the middle east and then telling people that sign up it was a "bait and switch" and all of a sudden they actually have to go fight a war...

(man are those beers in amsterdam going to be interesting... perhaps we should agree not to debate anything while drinking or smoking...)

[Raza]

if people were allowed to invalidate contracts at will.... there would be no basis for enforcing contracts whether for business/pleasure/military or other applications...

it would be anarchy (of sorts)...

Well, yeah; I'm an anarchist, so one may reasonably assume that the proper application of my ethical ideals would contribute to a state of anarchy.

Contracts are, like many formalised and popularly accepted ways to except on ethical judgement that would otherwise have resulted in condemnation, immensely convenient to their beneficiaries. Doesn't mean they're 'right' though, or necessary.

contracts should involve free will but if you agree to do something, you should do it... it's not like it is a big surprise that people that serve in the military go to war or fight battles....

it doesn't require any form of "generous application"...

of ones own free will is just that... you choose to do it... if, after the terms of the contract are met, you decide not to renew the contract you have that choice... but you have to meet all contratual obligations before you get the option to continue or not...

Doing something out of free will and doing something you once out of free will said you would do are two different things. Your argument requires not just acceptance of the dictionary definition of 'volunteer', but the additional acceptance of the ethical premise that you have an obligation to do something if you've formally declared your intention to, which is far from universal.

Besides, even if you accepted the validity of contractual obligation, it'd no longer be voluntary if they changed their minds about what they wanted in the meantime; it'd be a rightful obligation they have despite having changed their minds. Calling it voluntary sounds nice and people tend to feel understandibly justified in calling things that they believe are rightful whatever it takes to get them accepted, but if it's not as relevant as it's made to sound then it's still deceptive.

it's not like the army or marines are offering bungalow beach vacations in the middle east and then telling people that sign up it was a "bait and switch" and all of a sudden they actually have to go fight a war...

No, the distinction between the glamour of theoretical military participation and the reality of actual military participation is kept carefully out of the reach of words that may concretely be held against it at a later time. It's therefore no less real though, and no less valid a reason for one to change their minds.

(man are those beers in amsterdam going to be interesting... perhaps we should agree not to debate anything while drinking or smoking...)

I only debate people in real life if I'm on speed or coke; actually pronouncing the endless and specialised detail required for logical soundness is entirely too daunting a task for me to take on sober. Mostly I stick to cryptic catchphrases and giggle when people think they've captured the essence of it well enough to object.

[jonny.illuminati]

Sadam didn't have any WMDs.

i will argue differently... i spent a lot of time in that country and the truth isn't always what the government or the news tells you...

[Ajax Knucklebones]

i will argue differently... i spent a lot of time in that country and the truth isn't always what the government or the news tells you...

Why would they lie about this?

[Buster Friendly]

i will argue differently... i spent a lot of time in that country and the truth isn't always what the government or the news tells you...

I didn't believe the govt. or the news when they said there were WMDs.

And with all due respect to everything you went through johnny, I'm not going to just take your word for it either. Although I will accept that you feel you have reasons to believe as you do.

And until someone brings me the head of Osama Bin Laden so I can mount it on a pole here in NYC I say these wars are pointless, and the Pentagon owes me, and the rest of the country a fuckton of money, because seriously... it's been 8 fucking years, and if dude didn't die of kidney failure, WTF? Where the fuck is his head, I wants it!!! Blow up haliburton, and give us our money back already.

[helcyon]

And until someone brings me the head of Osama Bin Laden so I can mount it on a pole here in NYC I say these wars are pointless, and the Pentagon owes me, and the rest of the country a fuckton of money

At least someone got their money's worth

[jonny.illuminati]

Why would they lie about this?

the government lies to protect intelligence sources...

it's a giant game of intel collection and use... until you have actually seen it in action it's hard to understand...

[jonny.illuminati]

I didn't believe the govt. or the news when they said there were WMDs.

And with all due respect to everything you went through johnny, I'm not going to just take your word for it either. Although I will accept that you feel you have reasons to believe as you do.

And until someone brings me the head of Osama Bin Laden so I can mount it on a pole here in NYC I say these wars are pointless, and the Pentagon owes me, and the rest of the country a fuckton of money, because seriously... it's been 8 fucking years, and if dude didn't die of kidney failure, WTF? Where the fuck is his head, I wants it!!! Blow up haliburton, and give us our money back already.

i agree you don't have to just take my word for it... but at least give it a thought... i wasn't some low ranking soldier slogging it out in Iraq...

[Buster Friendly]

i agree you don't have to just take my word for it... but at least give it a thought... i wasn't some low ranking soldier slogging it out in Iraq...

Oh and to be sure. I'd definitely listen to what you had to say on the subject with an open mind. A conversation that would probably be better over a decent meal, or a beer. I look at a lot of different information sources, and consider a lot of different view points.

And I do know, from people who've been on the scene that things aren't what they say in the history books... as well as having been at a couple of incidents myself now that I think about it.

[Mr Karl]

I wonder what would have happend if jimmy carter was president instead

[jonny.illuminati]

Oh and to be sure. I'd definitely listen to what you had to say on the subject with an open mind. A conversation that would probably be better over a decent meal, or a beer. I look at a lot of different information sources, and consider a lot of different view points.

And I do know, from people who've been on the scene that things aren't what they say in the history books... as well as having been at a couple of incidents myself now that I think about it.

that's more my style... i don't believe that anyone has to agree with me on anything... but we had better disagree while eating a fantastic meal...

all i really ever ask of anyone is an open mind and that they look for multiple information sources...

[helcyon]

I wonder what would have happend if jimmy carter was president instead