Pole dancing classes in school?

[Lady Alias]

Found a video posted from one of the kiddie's cellphones...

That's pretty impressive. And it didn't come off as sexual to me.

It seems that, unless you find a vertical pole to be sexual, your behaviour with the pole is what matters - whether you were going for a sexual angle or artistic angle.

As Volda said, horizontally, there would be a whole 'nother connotation. I suppouse people just assumed that pole dancing would be the more adult angle.

[Lady Alias]

Whoop, shoulda read the posts after the video. >.> Sorry for being redundant.

[athenahollow]

As Volda said, horizontally, there would be a whole 'nother connotation. I suppouse people just assumed that pole dancing would be the more adult angle.

The reason it's assumed is that pole dancing is an adult angle. Honestly.

Also, you've passed on my point that it's not 'us' 'teaching' them, it's them seeking to learn something that they apparently find interesting. You keep treating them as non-persons, with no say or hand in what'll end up happening to them.

And that middle ground is theirs to walk as they see fit, not ours to place them on somewhere of our choosing. Not even right in the middle, under the pretentense of virtue by moderation.

But we are teaching them if we are the ones who are agreeing that it's ok to be taught in our schools.

And you are correct to a degree, it is their place, but it is also our place to try and help them through situations in life, making the safe choices, and I don't think teaching them how to pole dance as teenagers is helping them to make the safe choices.

As I said, I remember being a teenager, and they are getting into sexual acts earlier and earlier, going more and more extreme today. I don't think that teaching them something that is reserved for adults only (at least in the US) is a "safe" choice. I don't know about you, but I know that if they had offered this when I was a kid, 9/10 girls in the class would be learning how to do it so they could impress the guys. And since pole dancing is obviously connotative of sexuality, you can now see how this could be an issue.

I wanted freedom as a teen, and my parents never talked to me about sex or drugs. Their answer was "Don't do it or you will get grounded". But not allowing them to learn nifty pole dancing techniques in a school environment (and if it's in a school, it's a school environment - whether classes are taking place that moment or not) isn't us saying "Hey, don't do this". It's "Hey, I don't think this is appropriate for teenagers, considering we all know what happens in most strip clubs" and as any of the girls here who do this for a living can attest, it's not always the prettiest scenes. Same can be said about the porn industry or any ADULT industry for that matter.

And also, do you really think the kids who need the exercise are going to be the ones taking said classes? No. So really, who is this going to help in the end?

[LeilaHazlett]

I don't care what anyone says. while the age of 14 may be considered adolescence, its still a child. I think its wrong, and this comming from vetran stripper.

I agree with you. Kids all develop at different times and the reality is that some kids just might not be comfortable engaging in a sexual style of dancing in front of their peers. And 14 just still seems too young to encourage that type of activity.

That being said, i really wish they would have pole dancing classes at my college.

[LeilaHazlett]

I don't see the problem, and I'm pretty sure I've looked properly. It's a dance style, which while traditionally sexy is not inherently so; a non-sexual execution is definitely manageable, and the only people that could object to that are those themselves unable to look past the optional sexual interpretation of the thing. That is, people with sex somewhat oppressively on their minds, one way or another, and probably in a position to figure things out for themselves before they try to figure them out for others.

Kids aren't that stupid. They know pole dancing is sexual and associated with strip clubs. This isn't a case of adults imposing their views on children. I saw pole dancing in a movie when I was in elementary school and even back then it was obvious to me that it was a very sexual thing.

[Raza]

But we are teaching them if we are the ones who are agreeing that it's ok to be taught in our schools.

Tolerance is not endorsement; you don't need to approve of something to allow it to exist.

Insofar as schools are a communal commodity they really should serve every demographic within that community equally, and thus don't really provide an option to say "It's ok in general, but not ok in school.". Insofar as they aren't a communal commodity but merely a place where one independent party can offer learning to another, the transaction occurs only between the students and those organising the hypothetical classes. Either way, there's no 'we' whose active approval of- or participation in the process is required, or relevant.

And you are correct to a degree, it is their place, but it is also our place to try and help them through situations in life, making the safe choices, and I don't think teaching them how to pole dance as teenagers is helping them to make the safe choices.

As I said, I remember being a teenager, and they are getting into sexual acts earlier and earlier, going more and more extreme today. I don't think that teaching them something that is reserved for adults only (at least in the US) is a "safe" choice. I don't know about you, but I know that if they had offered this when I was a kid, 9/10 girls in the class would be learning how to do it so they could impress the guys. And since pole dancing is obviously connotative of sexuality, you can now see how this could be an issue.

We may help them by providing them information and choices we think are beneficial - not by restricting choices and withholding information that we think is not. And when there's people willing to provide the class and students willing to take it, that's what stopping it in any way amounts to, no matter how you spin it.

If you think your perspective is underrepresented, you've got the option of spreading awareness by providing information of your own. You've got the option of addressing anyone who'll listen with what you have to say, just like whomever is hosting those demonstrations are doing. But you don't get the option of denying others that route; your opinion will have to stand on its own merit, or fall.

And if fall it does, complaining that it's because there's something wrong with your audience is just poor sportsmanship.

I wanted freedom as a teen, and my parents never talked to me about sex or drugs. Their answer was "Don't do it or you will get grounded". But not allowing them to learn nifty pole dancing techniques in a school environment (and if it's in a school, it's a school environment - whether classes are taking place that moment or not) isn't us saying "Hey, don't do this". It's "Hey, I don't think this is appropriate for teenagers, considering we all know what happens in most strip clubs" and as any of the girls here who do this for a living can attest, it's not always the prettiest scenes. Same can be said about the porn industry or any ADULT industry for that matter.

Working life as an adult isn't always pretty or fun; that's not just this industry. But you and many others here have chosen sexual ways of earning a living, so there must be some merit to them; and yet, you seem to be working from the presumption that for anyone to make that choice in the future would necessarily be undesirable; something that we should strive to avoid.

Why? They get exposed to the basics of many other lines of work. Deliberately, even, to give them a way to look at all their options and make an informed decision. Most if not all professions have their major downsides, but there's nothing inherently wrong with the sex industry, so other than tradition and generic sexophobia, why should it be specifically excluded?

And also, do you really think the kids who need the exercise are going to be the ones taking said classes? No. So really, who is this going to help in the end?

It may seem at a given moment that a class is divided between the already nice-looking and popular that would do something like this and the less so who need it more and would do it less, but it's not that clear. Children that have motivation now need options to act on it to keep it that way; even for an already pretty and popular girl, two years later it may be a healthy sport like this or it may be anorexia. And besides, from my own school time, I remember that there were surprisingly many girls whose social confidence did not seem proportional to their looks/apparent physical fitness; any opportunity for anyone to pick up a healthy hobby is one more that may leave a few people identifying as being physically fit through effort rather than genetics, and keeping it up through lifestyle rather than fickle chance.

[athenahollow]

I've made every possible point I could, and will just leave it at this: If it is restricted to adults to work in the profession, it should be restricted to adults to learn how to do it.

[Raza]

I've made every possible point I could, and will just leave it at this: If it is restricted to adults to work in the profession, it should be restricted to adults to learn how to do it.

That seems an adequate summary, yes; let's shake hands on it?

[Morning Glory]

I think that AH brings up a good point that leads to the notion of ulterior motives, whether they are conscious or not. This isn't about fitness anymore than cheerelading is about fitness, because the girls that need the excersize are not going to be allowed by their peers, nor would they want to engage in such a routine that humiliates them since they already lack the self-confidence being that they are an overweight teenager. It's about conforming to the gender/power roles of society. which goes against even raza's notions of sexual liberation.

and what about the guys, are they going to be doing this? it doesn't take much of a rocket scientist to figure out that any guy dancing on the pole will be labeled a fag in about two seconds flat. and why is that? because as LH said, teenagers may be dumb, but they aren't stupid. they know exactly what it is and what it's all about and what the connotations are.

[Pull~My~Hair]

that's not true anymore. I'm pretty sure you have to be 21 everywhere now, including nevada.

If you are 18, 19, or 20 years old, you can get a minor service permit. With a minor service permit, you may serve, pour, and draw alcoholic beverages only in areas of the business not prohibited to minors where alcohol service is secondary to food service. You may not mix drinks nor work as a bartender or cocktail server

thats what it is in oregon.

[Pull~My~Hair]

Kids aren't that stupid. They know pole dancing is sexual and associated with strip clubs. This isn't a case of adults imposing their views on children. I saw pole dancing in a movie when I was in elementary school and even back then it was obvious to me that it was a very sexual thing.

EXACTLY kids that age would be waaaaaay more likely to turn it into something sexual than a bunch of middle age women "getting into shape" ever would.
I remember being a teenager and any little sexual or naughty thing turned into a Huge thing, teens are super sensitive to everything, and they are laughing their asses off that they get to pole dance and the "stupid adults" are really fooled thinking they are just staying in shape.

a local school last week was on the news cause at a pep rally performance all of the players sat in chairs while all of the cheerleades pretty much gave them synchronized lap dances and mimed giving them blowjobs...yeah...cool

[athenahollow]

If you are 18, 19, or 20 years old, you can get a minor service permit. With a minor service permit, you may serve, pour, and draw alcoholic beverages only in areas of the business not prohibited to minors where alcohol service is secondary to food service. You may not mix drinks nor work as a bartender or cocktail server

thats what it is in oregon.

I believe that is nationwide. I remember when I was waitressing this time last year and kept having to pour beer for the 17 year olds. It was quite annoying.

[Head Wreck]

it was only recently that a school canteen assistant somewhere got ousted by a "concerned parent" for being a pornstar in her younger years which she had decided to leave in her past.

i'm just starting for the real frothys to start biping about this

[VoltaireBlue]

i'm just starting for the real frothys to start biping about this

??? english please, lol.

[Morning Glory]

English, motherfucker: Do you speak it?

[Head Wreck]

for the pearents association to start screaming that its corruption of thier children and blaming the girl that was asked to do it

[Morning Glory]

that is a good point. the douchey christian parents are always jumping at the chance to ruin someone's fun, where are they at?

[Mr Karl]

so.......for people under the age of 21 poledancing's illegal?

I'd hate to be a teenager with some of you people around

[karyn]

from the sentinel

Pa. town pays $75,000 in pole dancing settlement

By Associated Press, January 31, 2009

Last updated: Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:21 PM EST
PITTSBURGH (AP) — A Pittsburgh suburb will pay $75,000 to end a federal lawsuit with a woman whom they initially barred from opening a pole dancing studio.

In October, Adams Township officials allowed Stephanie Babines to open her studio. On Friday, officials agreed to pay Babines $75,000 to cover damages and attorney’s fees and end the lawsuit she filed against them in August.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed the suit on behalf of Babines saying her rights were violated when the town refused to give her an occupancy permit for her dance studio.

Town officials had argued that “Oh my You’re GORGEOUS” was a sexually oriented business that violated zoning rules. Babines is fully clothed in her pole dancing, power lap dancing and strip tease lessons.

[athenahollow]

so.......for people under the age of 21 poledancing's illegal?

I'd hate to be a teenager with some of you people around

First of all, 18 and you can legally work in a strip club (at least anywhere I've been)

Second, no. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that it shouldn't be taught at a school. If a parent wants to take their teen to a school to learn pole dancing that's not part of the curriculum (even after school program) that's fine and dandy, but everyone, even 14 year old girls, knows that pole dancing is a sexually connotative thing, and personally I wouldn't want my kid to be subjected to being judged by her peers because she can do the upside down splits using a pole. There's plenty of other shit kids do to judge others, do we want sexual coordination to be in that list?

[Mr Karl]

well 18 19 21, whatever that wasn't really my point..............

how would you have judged it if you were taught that in school?

Then again I don't have to care cause my daughters long past school now

hmmmm...........they could make an interesting degrassi story out of this

[Morning Glory]

I'd hate to be a teenager with some of you people around

and we'd hate you just as much. probably more.

[athenahollow]

how would you have judged it if you were taught that in school?

I've already stated how I would have judged it if I were in school doing it. That it would be used for nothing more than showing off, the same reason girls I know claimed to be bi: to make out w/ other girls just to get guys hot and horny for them.

[Mr Karl]

and we'd hate you just as much. probably more.

yeah, you probably would

[Morning Glory]

come on, that's the one good thing about being an adult, you don't have to put up with shit from teenagers.

[Mr Karl]

yes it is isn't it....................stupid teenagers

well they are good for a laugh


anyway teenagers will always be finding ways to show off, and they'll always be stupid about it..........point being if it's decided in the teenage mind that poledancing's the cool thing to be doing they're going to do it. Best you can hope for is someone was paying attention in shop class and it doesn't rip off the cieling and break someone's neck.

then again, I've never uderstood the deal with poledancing anyway.......

[Mindgames]

then again, I've never uderstood the deal with poledancing anyway.......

It's one of the 20th Century's greatest collective mistakes - caused by a guy from DC coming back from vacation in Warsaw and saying the strippers were good.

[vampyrdraven666]

pole dancing in classrooms as fitness. no.... thats part of why our society is decaying. sure, im openminded, but thats the kind of thing that leads to (girls mainly) being....high scholl whores and what-not.

why not do something else like ballet or yoga? still sounds "gay", right? its still great excercise and the basics arent too hard to learn. ive been doing them both for years. not much ballet, but the basics.

[mystoo]

hmmmm...........they could make an interesting degrassi story out of this

I think we may be the only ones who know what Degrassi is, eh.

[Mr Karl]

I think we may be the only ones who know what Degrassi is, eh.

that would be sad...................

[Mr Karl]

It's one of the 20th Century's greatest collective mistakes - caused by a guy from DC coming back from vacation in Warsaw and saying the strippers were good.

they have strippers in poland??

[helcyon]

What about just watching? These 14 to 19 year olds didn't seem to object...

IT WAS a packed lunch for children at an English school who were treated to a pole dancing lesson as part of their Be Healthy Week.

The person who did the "pole fitness demonstration" was Mrs Sam Remmer, 32. She has her supporters on youtube:

One user writes, "Absolutely awesome and how ridiculous that a bunch of up-tight teachers complained about what is essentially a gymnastics display. I expect the real issue was that the kids were more galvanised by your performance than by their boring lessons. And we can't have that now can we?!"

Similarly, anotheradds: "Another fantastic performance from Sam proving that pole dancing isn't at all degrading as people first assume. In fact, it's a very high impact form of exercise which is great fun for all ages. Well done Sam, loving your work, keep up the good work."

Mrs Remmer told The Sun unless people are educated in the differences between modern fitness pole dancing and lap dancing then "negative stereotypes will not go away".

The college has refused to comment. But vice-principal Pat Denham did say there was a "pole fitness demonstration, but no pole dancing" and the college had received no "official" complaints.

Myself? I'm not sure about the under-age aspect. In fact I'm baffled by pole dancing in general! I recently attended "Miss Pole Dance Australia" with a free spare ticket and I was bewidered because:

• I was on some drug or other
• The audience of thousands was at least 90% composed of young attractive females
• The performers and hostesses were intimidatingly attractive
• I'm not exactly sure what the actual point of pole dancing is
• The show was MC'd by truck-driver sized male transvestites who did their normal routines telling jokes about dicks and such-like

I was so confused that I gave my seat away to a young woman I didn't know and sat on the floor beside her

[OliX]

What's next? Electric rodeo bull riding?

[Mindgames]

Mrs Remmer told The Sun unless people are educated in the differences between modern fitness pole dancing and lap dancing then "negative stereotypes will not go away".

The difference being that in the former, it's considered impolite to stuff dollar bills in her panties; and in the latter, there is no pole. At least, no metal pole.

[Raza]

I think that AH brings up a good point that leads to the notion of ulterior motives, whether they are conscious or not. This isn't about fitness anymore than cheerelading is about fitness, because the girls that need the excersize are not going to be allowed by their peers, nor would they want to engage in such a routine that humiliates them since they already lack the self-confidence being that they are an overweight teenager.

Fitness would be a benefit of it regardless of whether it's what caught the participants interests, as it is with every other sport. You realise how boring it is to take exercise just for the health benefits?

And as I responded when Athena brought it up, there's far more complexity to social confidence and health than a group of fat people that don't have it and a group of popular ones that do.

and what about the guys, are they going to be doing this? it doesn't take much of a rocket scientist to figure out that any guy dancing on the pole will be labeled a fag in about two seconds flat. and why is that? because as LH said, teenagers may be dumb, but they aren't stupid. they know exactly what it is and what it's all about and what the connotations are.

It's about conforming to the gender/power roles of society. which goes against even raza's notions of sexual liberation.

Don't pretend to speak for me please. If kids, fat and skinny alike, boy and girl alike, all get the opportunity to learn to pole dance and out of free will mostly the ones you'd expect it from do, I've got no problem with that. Individuals have the right to be predictable if they so please; and exceptions, by definition, will always be the exception. Allowing them is all you can do.

What I have a problem with are rules that affirm and enforce prescriptive social roles, placed by one person or group on another; and a rule that stops teenagers engaging in a perfectly healthy activity because adults think it's too sexual would be a perfect example of that.

[DJ Bat]

Well... yea... 14 is a bit young... however... (and this takes a little stretching, not much, some redress and change of routine but...)

Cirque de Soleil? Change her outfit, dump a few moves and add some others and change the music and I don't see any issue then... I'd still shy away from using a male model though if it went that way...watching a man in a leotard with a codpiece large enough to hide a sea kitten is just too psychologically damaging, but all in all, I can see perhaps some of the intent of the program if you look through the keyhole this way.

[OliX]

It's just plain wrong. End of story.

Sad part is that this steam train we're all riding took on some serious speed, and it won't be able to stop before it reaches that faulty engineered bridge, in which everyone seems to believe that it's going to work.

[Tigerlily]

Didn't pole dancing start out as part of a strip routine?
Yeah, its great as far as exercise goes, but I'm sure young girls can get the same workout from playing tennis or something that is already offered right? It seems like a waste to spend additional school funds so teenage girls can have fun while exercising...I mean, so many children are overweight in this country and its due to poor nutrition and processed foods. Do what we did when we were younger, go climb a tree or do cartwheels...something.

[OliX]

School isn't supposed to be fun

[Raza]

School isn't supposed to be fun

Which is but one of the many reasons for its horrible ineffectiveness.