Ah those girls.

[OliX]

Got a call from "friend in need" around 1am.... turned it down.
Now I kinda regret it, but then again, it was for good.

There it goes of my chest. Thanks for being such a good crowd guys!

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Turning down a booty call......You dope!

[OliX]

You have no idea. They dig it!

[OliX]

Nah... I'm just kidding. I'm not such a womanizer. Thing is she has a boyfriend. Not a friend of mine but a cool guy I know. That's a big NO for me. Never do to others what you wouldn't like to be done to you.

[OliX]

But she's so damn super cute! AAARGH!

[FedorasBox]

good for you.

[Mr Karl]

oh well, if her boyfriend can't meet her needs, someones got to. But yeah, a girls got to be worth it before you go messing with that kind of shit.

[OliX]

I need a castration. What's the best way to go? I was thinking about freezing them with a liquid nitrogen and then playing with them instead of my regular marble balls.

Funny, I never cheated without asking for permission first. Don't ask how that worked out.

I channeled those emotions (read needs) into music and made a sick little beat. Some hard core break beat jazz... it worked out good actually. I should thank her for inspiration over coffee tomorrow

[Mr Karl]

sure..........rationalize if you must

[ROGIZOID]

Never do to others what you wouldn't like to be done to you.

That is the truth man.
This gives me hope for men hahahaha.
J/K :]

I live with a bunch of dudes, so i have to hear things similar to this constantly.

[Pull~My~Hair]

loser..lol

those girls usually have diseases anyway

[VoltaireBlue]

I'm a firm believer in karma; good for you... you don't want that kind of drama, or drama at all....

[Mindgames]

I need a castration. What's the best way to go?

Try going to Washington Heights in a Vote Palin t-shirt.

[Raza]

Nah... I'm just kidding. I'm not such a womanizer. Thing is she has a boyfriend. Not a friend of mine but a cool guy I know. That's a big NO for me. Never do to others what you wouldn't like to be done to you.

I'm poly. Does that mean I get to bang everybody's lovers, as I wouldn't mind them doing it to mine?

Iunno. I don't take initiative to hit on people much at all, but when they proposition me my policy is to let people pass their own judgement. I'm never going to know the nuances or their relationship as well as they do, and it's not my job to enforce rules they may or may not have agreed upon among themselves. Trying to think for other people in situations like that is a bit patronising, even if it seems 'right' through popular glorification. Gawd knows I tire of people deciding to think for me and write me off when they find out I've got a girlfriend.

[Morning Glory]

that brand of perspectivism might be nice for you, but less so for this gals boyfriend whom you may have hurt, or in the very least paid no consideration to how he might feel.

If that is her prerogative, then so be it, but it would just be selfish disregard on your part to pretend that it was honest, and that is why I imagine that Olix made the choice that he did.

I'd break up a relationship if I felt that it was the right thing to do, but i'd take responsibility for it.

[Raza]

that brand of perspectivism might be nice for you, but less so for this gals boyfriend whom you may have hurt, or in the very least paid no consideration to how he might feel.

Why is it up to me to 'consider' the feelings of people I know nothing about or have never met? If two people have agreed on monogamy, that's between the two of them. If the people that made the promise cannot be arsed to stick to it, why should I as a stranger to all that take the initiative to hold them to a promise I've no reason to expect exists, other than its general popularity?

It's not something that makes any sense when you take it outside the context of monogamy, where it is respected tradition. I don't gather to tradition. And frankly, as someone who isn't monogamous, I find it insulting when people feel that the 'moral' thing to do is assume that I'm something I'm not'.

If that is her prerogative, then so be it, but it would just be selfish disregard on your part to pretend that it was honest, and that is why I imagine that Olix made the choice that he did.

What's dishonest about it?

I'd break up a relationship if I felt that it was the right thing to do, but i'd take responsibility for it.

Now you are walking very shody ethical ground. It's never 'the right thing to do' for you to decide to 'break up' someone else's relationship. That's their business. 'Taking responsibilities' that you don't have isn't an excuse to meddle.

[Morning Glory]

your just an immature little creep raza that preaches about freedom of expression, which is just an excuse to hide behind imposing your viewpoints on everyone else while crying the victim if the tables are ever turned. completely one-sided and hypocritical.

yes, I would take responsibility for what my actions caused other people to think and feel, instead of just dismissing them and saying "if you believe in monogamy, that's your problem that I fucked your girlfriend, and don't blame me for wrecking your relationship."

you really are deluded if you think that throwing up a philosophical rant to justify what you do really equates to not interfering in other peoples affairs.

[Raza]

Lol. You always post single angry paragraphs like that when I adress your points in depth.

That's fine, tbh. As exit strategies go it's relatively funny, and it stops the debate dragging out beyond its ability to entertain.

[Morning Glory]

you didn't address jack shit, you just used my words as a buttress to continue soapboxing, and as always doing a half-assed attempt to act like you were objecting analysis.

I'm glad that you find it funny. it is a good joke, because I don't buy your bullshit.

we can all see that you'd do the deed and then shirk having the guts to face up to it.

[Raza]

I'm detecting some kind of personal, emphatic involvement here. Was it your girlfriend, perchance?

[OliX]

loser..lol

those girls usually have diseases anyway

Not her. She's nice and cool. Very active and engaged in stuff that she does.
I know they've been together for a long time now. 3 years or something now.

And Raza, I'll keep your opinion in mind when I come and visit Amsterdam

BTW, for the record I also rarely hit on people...
Most of my long relationships were initiated by girls.

I don't get it with girls. They're so blinded by society about their sexuality.
Why does every girl expect that I will come running if she wants to have sex.
You guys will hate me if you knew what else I turned down. I'm all for equality, so I act like a girl from time to time when it comes to relationship. Very funny situations. "Please stop stroking my hair, I want to sleep, I told you already I have a headache." I actually had a headache at that time. Reactions are priceless.

[Raza]

Haha. You do that.

"Please stop stroking my hair, I want to sleep, I told you already I have a headache." I actually had a headache at that time. Reactions are priceless.

You know it's not very nice when you do it either though, right?

I'm a lot the same though. Even if I find people nice looking, I don't spend my time in typical social situations thinking about how I want to have sex with them. Unless I start out exceptionally horny or on just the right drugs I have to be seduced somehow, whether passively or actively - and if I'm really tired or something like that, seduction can be a nigh-impossible task.

I'm not sure that that's something to be proud of though; girls tend to glorify it as 'self respect', but I think it's really just a moderate sexdrive.

[DJ Bat]

Empathy, guilt, shame, compassion, the ability to understand consequences of actions, etc. are prefrontal cortex functions and not necessarily 'learned' behaviors. If this area gets compromised during adolescence via either drugs, accidents or genetics when it's formation is finalizing, you could be a brilliant individual yet lack these qualities to varying degrees.

I've known some people like this - total disregard for consequence of actions when it came to 'hurting feelings' or understanding positive or ill outcomes to their situation be it of a sexual nature, business decision, physical well being decision, etc...

Ain't biology neet-o?

[Raza]

Empathy, guilt, shame, compassion, the ability to understand consequences of actions, etc. are prefrontal cortex functions and not necessarily 'learned' behaviors.

Ah, but the conditions on which they trigger rely on a learned intuition about 'right' and 'wrong'. Almost everybody has the ability to be completely callous to others, so long as they do not identify with those people in the situation that got them hurt. This is why entirele populations of people get to see eachother as nothing but 'the enemy' and 'fair game' based on differences ranging from the superficial to the philosophical.

Sympathy requires a connection, and if the events leading up to someone getting hurt emphasise a difference between you and them rather than a similarity, that connection has no chance to manifest. I am not incapable of compassion; I just avoid partaking in people's suffering by having relatively little in common with them. In my perception of events, they're the victim to their own ritual sensitivities.

It really all comes down to what you believe.

[DJ Bat]

Ah, but the conditions on which they trigger rely on a learned intuition about 'right' and 'wrong'.

There are arguments for that such as little kids brainwashed by their parents to say, be white supremacists or to hate a particular race of people, however the difference there is that there is a fear factor dominating the decision as opposed to the free-choice of those situations if said child was left to come to their own devices given proper societal norms.

However, once 'free' of those external factors or for those who had not oppressed situations such as this, then it comes to the brain function.

I've had friends who grew up in great families, never a problem and yet still did things that they simply had no ability to understand the consequences of their actions and thus ended up hurting a lot of people emotionally by exhibiting these symptoms.

[Velvet-Tongue]

If you'd like to be selfish about it; not helping the girl "cheat" on her boyfriend by banging her protects you from being abused by said angry boyfriend later.

But seriously, if you know shes with someone and propositions you. I'd just say no. You don't have a responsibility to their relationship but as a person who cares about other humans you'd want to protect her boyfriend/girlfriend from the emotional pain caused by finding out they were cheated on.

Plus as far as most affairs go its a moment of personal weakness. Don't prey on it and make it easy for them to do the wrong thing.

[TheDeathKnight]

Raza,

I am totally cool with the idea of polyamory, but you still have to keep in mind the feelings of other human beings. Some people are totally down with the swinging and open lifestyle, but other people aren't. So if you choose to fuck someone who does have a monogamous partner, and participate in breaking their "rules", then their boyfriend is going to be mad at you for doing that. I agree that he should be mad at *her*, not at you, but it just doesn't work that way. Especially if he knows that you know about their monogamous status. No one can blame you if you hook up with some girl at a bar or club, and then find out later that she has a boyfriend. But if you know, and participate in the cheating, and participate in the lie, then chances are the guy will be mad about it.

I tend to agree with you, but my policy is to tell girls like that to come back and see me when their relationship is over. Once they are single, or in a poly relationship, then it's fine. But if they are still in a monogamous situation, I tell them to either tell their partner, or break up with them, and THEN come talk to me. Otherwise even if you are totally right, you may still end up killed or beaten up by a jealous boyfriend. It's just not worth it. People need to have the balls to be honest, and the rest of us need to have the balls to tell the cheaters out there to grow some balls, and tell their partner before they start fucking around...

There are plenty of single people in the world. No need to get sucked into drama, or cause other people pain, if there is no need to do so...

[DJ Bat]

Raza,

Otherwise even if you are totally right, you may still end up killed or beaten up by a jealous boyfriend. It's just not worth it.

Thank you for pointing that out - this is a side effect of such action and if the person who gets killed had a brain dysfunction, it's just as traumatic in a way as they really didn't feel it was their problem nor can they comprehend why they are being beaten/killed - makes for a real horror show.

[TheDeathKnight]

Even though as a free human being, I should be free to walk the streets of Compton or Baghdad at night, I know that there may be very bad results of that behavior. So even though it would be nice to bang every girl who wants it, it's a wise decision to say no, if they have a husband or boyfriend. Because they may see it differently than you do. They may consider the girl the "weak" one, and you are "manipulating" her, or some other rubbish. But even if it's total bullshit, the end result is that you may be the cause of some serious drama and possibly violence. Maybe he will kill that girl for cheating... you never know. Do you want to be the one who causes some kind of situation like that? Or get yourself mixed up in it? I know from experience that it's not a good idea... Just passing on the wisdom of my own mistakes!

[Raza]

There are arguments for that such as little kids brainwashed by their parents to say, be white supremacists or to hate a particular race of people, however the difference there is that there is a fear factor dominating the decision as opposed to the free-choice of those situations if said child was left to come to their own devices given proper societal norms.

However, once 'free' of those external factors or for those who had not oppressed situations such as this, then it comes to the brain function.

I've had friends who grew up in great families, never a problem and yet still did things that they simply had no ability to understand the consequences of their actions and thus ended up hurting a lot of people emotionally by exhibiting these symptoms.

Hah, that'd be nice, if it was just a select group of racists and similarly easy-to-point-out, easy-to-set-yourself-apart-from people. But we all do it, all the time. We do it when we don't feel bad for a family of fat people claiming not to get enough tax paid welfare/health benefits to live without working. We do it when we nod our heads in approval at some-or-another criminal having been caught and put to trial. We do it when 'the troops' bring in another Taliban leader after bombing the fuck out of some rural Afghan village. We do it when we tell the shaking guy on the corner to get off drugs before asking you for money.

It's all the same mechanic. They did or are doing something that you wouldn't. They're different, and they brought it on themselves. You can feel sorry; but you only feel sorry that they didn't 'know better', like you do.

It's human nature. I don't think there's any use in trying to fight that; and frankly, it can be a useful mechanic, under the right circumstances. The only thing we can do is try our best to place ourselves in others' shoes and make sure we're wrong as little as we can manage - and try to limit our callousness to things people bring on themselves, rather than going into dealing out punishments of our own on top.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

That is the truth man.
This gives me hope for men hahahaha.
J/K :]

I live with a bunch of dudes, so i have to hear things similar to this constantly.

Yes...Because only men cheat. Oh wait a sec...It was a girl who wanted a Olix bangin', wasn't it? Bam!

[Morning Glory]

even if you aren't a homocidal maniac, bottom line is that if you are under the impression that you are a in a committed relationship because your other has said so, for you to remain faithful while your partner does not live up to their end of the bargain is just shitty. sure both parties are equally responsible, but it takes two to tango. call me crazy, but that is just unfair.

I'm not speaking out of personal experience, and I kind of favor open relationships to possessive tendencies, but I have some kind of misplaced empathy for trying to minimize causing angst and drama between people. go figure.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

In my past (Before I was married), I said no to at least 6 "sure things" because of my conscience and the situation. The older I get though, I'm not so sure I should have said no. They were all cute, good to go, and I was very attracted to all of them...And now they are all past tense. I say, "Why the fuck not go for it?" I've had enough women cheat on my ass. Why did I have to be the "good guy" in all the situations? In the end, most of what it got me for saying no was just not getting laid. I do believe in karma(to a point), but also there has been some pretty fucked up things over the years that happened to me and I can't see that it was some kind of cosmic payback. Payback for what?

Would I want some guy to have sex with my wife behind my back? Of course not, but for the act to happen she also would have wanted it.

[Raza]

Raza,

I am totally cool with the idea of polyamory, but you still have to keep in mind the feelings of other human beings. Some people are totally down with the swinging and open lifestyle, but other people aren't. So if you choose to fuck someone who does have a monogamous partner, and participate in breaking their "rules", then their boyfriend is going to be mad at you for doing that. I agree that he should be mad at *her*, not at you, but it just doesn't work that way. Especially if he knows that you know about their monogamous status. No one can blame you if you hook up with some girl at a bar or club, and then find out later that she has a boyfriend. But if you know, and participate in the cheating, and participate in the lie, then chances are the guy will be mad about it.

I tend to agree with you, but my policy is to tell girls like that to come back and see me when their relationship is over. Once they are single, or in a poly relationship, then it's fine. But if they are still in a monogamous situation, I tell them to either tell their partner, or break up with them, and THEN come talk to me. Otherwise even if you are totally right, you may still end up killed or beaten up by a jealous boyfriend. It's just not worth it. People need to have the balls to be honest, and the rest of us need to have the balls to tell the cheaters out there to grow some balls, and tell their partner before they start fucking around...

There are plenty of single people in the world. No need to get sucked into drama, or cause other people pain, if there is no need to do so...

I'm comfortable with people being mad at me for bad reasons. It's the only way to live, in a world filled with the stupid and temperamental. If I'd stopped doing everything I've ever received death threats over, I wouldn't have a distinguishing characteristic left.

It's worth it. Every time.

[TheDeathKnight]

I totally agree about not changing the way you live your life, just to satisfy the people who think you should be proper and "normal". But at the same time, I think there are plenty of single people who want to fuck, so why waste time on people who are too weak to get out of their relationships?

[Raza]

There aren't that many people that I want to fuck, though. If I meet somebody special enough to infatuate me, I'm not going to skip the opportunity out of proactive fear for a violent boyfriend that may or may not end up coming in to play.

Besides, the violent and jealous are rarely skillful communicators. At least half of the times where things like this happen there is some (occasionally willful) misunderstanding in play, where it is only the jealous 'partner' that thinks they are owed monogamy. If I'm not in a position to know exactly what's going on (and that'd be a rare thing), it'll always be the individual coming on to me that gets the final word. No promise that they don't want to make is meaningful to me, anyway; whether it has been made in the past but no longer feels right for them, it had only been made in somebody's imagination, or it had never been made at all.

[DJ Bat]

It's human nature. I don't think there's any use in trying to fight that; and frankly, it can be a useful mechanic, under the right circumstances. The only thing we can do is try our best to place ourselves in others' shoes and make sure we're wrong as little as we can manage - and try to limit our callousness to things people bring on themselves, rather than going into dealing out punishments of our own on top.

The difference in this is that my example, such as this thread, are actions caused by direct actions of the individual with direct consequences. The human nature to be cold and callous in an indirect nature such as the fat family that won't work is often defaulting to humorous interaction of obvious situations that, in that case, are not hurting anyone - i.e., these people aren't hurting anyone by not working and their request is humorous when compared to society - comparing this to screwing someone's girlfriend knowingly and not caring about the feelings one will directly effect nor realizing the potential consequences is what I was referring to. - slight difference - well, big difference...

[Raza]

That is what you believe. That family thought they were quite disparaged; and you picked the weakest of my examples. If empathy were unconditional, you would have to feel bad for them because merely they feel bad for themselves; no thoughts of "They aren't really being hurt" should come in to play.

But they do. And since I believe that feelings are always one's own responsibility because specific reactions can be learned and unlearned; that in the specific case of monogamy, people learn to be hurt because of the negative significance we attach (and endlessly echo among each other for validation) to events we call 'cheating'; I can get away without feeling bad for people's jealous lovers.

Certainly I was part of the chain of events that led to his ending up hurt, but that no more implies 'blame' to the human mind than if I had moved a chair to sit at a different table and he had stubbed his toe to it. It is human intuition to find one action or quality in that chain of events and single it out as 'the problem'. In my analysis of events, not only am I not the problem; the 'victim' is the problem, and that makes empathy very difficult.

This ties back in to what I said about people looking for things they don't have in common with people they see suffering; once you observe the suffering, the curous mind demand that 'the problem' be laid somewhere (doesn't matter if it is true, only that you believe it), and placing it with a quality you do not have in common with the suffering party not only absolves potential blame, but leaves one comfortably convinced that "that wouldn't happen to me!".

[OliX]

So, you're still okay with me coming over and banging your girlfriend?

[DJ Bat]

Direct involvement and passive observation are two major different things.

One is social observance and indirect summation based on known criteria. Yes sometimes it isn't pretty or it can be dealt with by using humor but it doesn't effect someone directly and certainly not by the 'outside' person. Conditioning could also fall under this where as someone can be brainwashed to believe something, at least for a time or until conditioning breaks.

The other is direct involvement that one should be able to understand the outcome(s) based on internal brain functions learned as a child: Understanding cause and effect, feelings of love, hate, jealousy, compassion, empathy, apathy, etc... It's the ability to understand them all, how they effect one's self AND the connection of how one's own actions directly affect others in those same areas.

But I've gone over that.

So, you're still okay with me coming over and banging your girlfriend?

I like this summation the best yet Olix, you're not supposed to ask - why bother? Not your problem. Who cares?