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Thread: alt models and failing at life

  1. #1

    Default alt models and failing at life

    Why is it that so many alt models feel entitled to be on whatever sites they feel like? Just because you describe yourself as alternative doesn't mean you actually look the part. I'm so sick of girls whining and complaining when sites don't accept them and using the same tired phrase "being alt is about attitude not how you look". If you can't take the fact that being a model means you are judged based on how you look then don't be a fucking model. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I've heard so many girls bitch about being rejected from sites that have specific requirements on having body mods because they apply even though they have few to no body mods. Of coarse you can be alternative without having body mods but if a site is specifically looking for modified girls it's their fucking choice. It's no different than any niche fetish site that only has pregnant girls or blonds or whatever. I've worked with a lot of models and alt models seem to be the only ones who don't understand this concept. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with a bunch of great alt models but I'm sick the 10% of girls out there that don't have a fucking clue about how shit works and feel the need to demonize a site just because they weren't accepted there. If being rejected from a site really upsets you that much then you probably have much bigger issues in your life than not being accepted.

  2. #2

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Might be they got the wrong impression from certain sites that pretend to exemplify alternative erotica while actually frowning heavily on creative appearances.

    That said though, I hear ya about self-proclaimed 'I'm crazy on the inside' altos. Everybody with half a consciousness could name a score of ways in which they're bonkers, it's the courage to openly express what you feel and let reactions be damned that characterises the individualist.

  3. #3
    ForrestBlack's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    My views on this are mixed. I imagine that it is difficult to read the tea leaves that some sites put out there when it comes to their wants and needs, but then on the other hand I know that some people blind themselves to the obvious conclusions staring themselves in the mirror.

    There are so many factors that go into when I'm shooting new people and I could certainly see folks wanting a bit more control and clarity, or at least a little more insight into the process and/or factors. However, I do find that these days it's a lot harder to work with new people precisely because their heads are full of this nonsense they heard form other models clucking themselves into a frenzy on certain model sites or buying into the manipulative doublespeak of certain sites masquerading as alternative.

    If qualification was 100% based on looks, then I feel like it would just be over. There would be no point. Attitude and personality do count, but you can't just have an attitude, you have to have the right attitude. Then again, there are a lot of creative tasks that need to be done and far to many people just want the validation of being in front of the camera while everybody dotes on them, dresses them, does their hair, paints their face, turns them on, and then pays them a living wage on the way out, and at a certain point that can come across a little selfish and spoiled. I like people who do something, who add to their culture. I want to shoot sexy portraiture of important people, significant people, rare and special people.

    That can't happen at the drop of a hat though. Sometimes the planets have to be in alignment, other creative projects have to be at a stable phase, and more and more often, the person I'm thinking of working with needs to appear to have their head on straight too.

    Now, obviously some of these are just my views and I'm certain they don't represent other people's perspective on the subject, so take that for what it's worth.

  4. #4

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    For god sake have some pity!! Being a model is so stupefyingly boring that they need to have their petty quarrels and bitchiness. Otherwise they’d go comatose...
    ITT the guy religiously prohibited from appearing in images relates modeling experiences.

  5. #5

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Having no experience with models (beyond my lady doing classical art modeling) take this with a grain of salt.

    Alt,Goth,Punk etc is a lifestyle but for the purposes of modeling its either a fashion deal or a fetish deal. You may go to every goth music concert, diddle latex clad girls in bathrooms and smoke cloves by the box but if you don't dress that way for your work/look the way a site wants then don't complain about not getting hired.

    if a beautiful girl shows up here but wears nothing but white sun shorts and abercrombie shirts then shes not an "alt" model. She could very well be a normal fashion model but alt models need to look and dress alt if they want to work as alternative models. We don't know you personally, the guys fapping to your pictures or the girls squeeeee'ing over your cool shoes don't know you either. So dress the part, look the part and do what your boss wants you to do.

    Like Raza said above another certain site which may go by the name of self inflicted death girls says they are alt models. But they'll take just about anyone if they have a nautical star tattooed on their arm or a wacky piercing on their eye brow. They're in the money cranking business. Small modeling sites I'm sure also want to crank out money but they have a smaller niche and want a certain aesthetic.

  6. #6
    Anna Evans's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by LeilaHazlett
    Why is it that so many alt models feel entitled to be on whatever sites they feel like? Just because you describe yourself as alternative doesn't mean you actually look the part. I'm so sick of girls whining and complaining when sites don't accept them and using the same tired phrase "being alt is about attitude not how you look". If you can't take the fact that being a model means you are judged based on how you look then don't be a fucking model. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I've heard so many girls bitch about being rejected from sites that have specific requirements on having body mods because they apply even though they have few to no body mods. Of coarse you can be alternative without having body mods but if a site is specifically looking for modified girls it's their fucking choice. It's no different than any niche fetish site that only has pregnant girls or blonds or whatever. I've worked with a lot of models and alt models seem to be the only ones who don't understand this concept. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with a bunch of great alt models but I'm sick the 10% of girls out there that don't have a fucking clue about how shit works and feel the need to demonize a site just because they weren't accepted there. If being rejected from a site really upsets you that much then you probably have much bigger issues in your life than not being accepted.
    It's hard, especially when you're new and don't understand how the business end of this works. I think a lot of it boils down to wanting to be part of this thing you love and wanting to be accepted by the people you admire so much that you don't want to see that you just aren't what they're looking for.

  7. #7
    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    yeah, I guess I see your point...

    but I like interesting people more than stupid, pretty ones. So I'd rather prefer a person that lived a real alternative lifestyle than some who was into "alt" fashion- which is not alternative at all in that it still has the exact same physical aesthetics of beauty as mainstream fashion, it just has superficial things like tattoos, which everyone in the mainstream has anyway too.

    Like Hollywood It girl Megan Fox from Transformers has tattoos, black hair and "bisexual" tendencies, so according to "alt fashion" websites criteria that would make her "alternative". Yeah. right.

  8. #8

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    What can I say? Some activities are so banal that one needs no actual experience to describe them. It might not be quite as astute as if an actual model said it herself but it’ll certainly be more concise. I like concise.

    For evidence just look at this thread. Everything that was needed to be said was communicated in the thread title. The OP was just waffle…
    You never need experience to describe an activity, but you need either humor or a point to describe it usefully.

  9. #9

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Naw, you've mostly got raw distaste and the self-indulgent impression that the satisfaction you feel in expressing it lies in the quality of the expression, rather than the unsurprising fact that you sympathise strongly with your own sentiment.

  10. #10
    Anna Evans's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    yeah, I guess I see your point...

    but I like interesting people more than stupid, pretty ones. So I'd rather prefer a person that lived a real alternative lifestyle than some who was into "alt" fashion- which is not alternative at all in that it still has the exact same physical aesthetics of beauty as mainstream fashion, it just has superficial things like tattoos, which everyone in the mainstream has anyway too.

    Like Hollywood It girl Megan Fox from Transformers has tattoos, black hair and "bisexual" tendencies, so according to "alt fashion" websites criteria that would make her "alternative". Yeah. right.
    I'm a freckled, blue eyed blonde from south Georgia with no tattoos and only my navel pierced. According to my adjectives, I'm mainstream as hell.

    I happen to live a real, alternative life, but that doesn't make me a good fit for the majority of the alt.porn sites out there.

  11. #11
    athenahollow's Avatar Smut Peddler
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    It would be anything that's a standard of your life that moral majority would consider to be odd, different, wrong, or bad. It doesn't mean that it is any of these things from a single person's pov, but when you get a group of people together, they become idiots.

  12. #12

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    Raw distaste. Yes, I rather like the sound of that… The rest of your post is rather superfluous though. Are you per chance a model?!

    We often find it hard to find humour in our vested interests...
    Naw; I've been in some pretty good pictures, but I make fun of the models around here and how seriously they take their 'profession' all the time. What I'm saying is that your point sucked and carried no noticeable humor.

    You shouldn't let your perception of everybody else's posting quality affect your own, dude. You'll be just as wrong as they are and look only marginally better for being it on your own.

  13. #13

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    What are these "alternative lifestyles" that people talk about?? Alternative to what?! Every single human being on the planet is a total freak; nobody is unique in this respect!
    People are herd animals; most spend their adult lives doing little but act out habits picked up by imitating others. Alternative lifestyles are ways to structure action chosen against the monoculture suggestions of peer pressure, based on the idea that their results would be more desirable to you.

    My non-monogamy would be a good example. I decided that monogamy was fucking stupid, and I wasn't gonna act on it anymore. Now certainly non-monogamous cultural streams already existed (although most come with almost equally silly rules), but even if I was aware of any at the time (not sure that I was) I certainly wasn't in any position to want to be like them. Alternative lifestyle.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    They're just females, what more can you expect?

    Now go make me a sammich.

  15. #15

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Evans
    It's hard, especially when you're new and don't understand how the business end of this works. I think a lot of it boils down to wanting to be part of this thing you love and wanting to be accepted by the people you admire so much that you don't want to see that you just aren't what they're looking for.
    I can understand that, I was mostly complaing about the girls who feel the need to go out and talk shit about a site just because they weren't accepted on it. I've seen a lot of really childish attitudes lately and it's annoying.

  16. #16

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
    My views on this are mixed. I imagine that it is difficult to read the tea leaves that some sites put out there when it comes to their wants and needs, but then on the other hand I know that some people blind themselves to the obvious conclusions staring themselves in the mirror.

    There are so many factors that go into when I'm shooting new people and I could certainly see folks wanting a bit more control and clarity, or at least a little more insight into the process and/or factors. However, I do find that these days it's a lot harder to work with new people precisely because their heads are full of this nonsense they heard form other models clucking themselves into a frenzy on certain model sites or buying into the manipulative doublespeak of certain sites masquerading as alternative.

    If qualification was 100% based on looks, then I feel like it would just be over. There would be no point. Attitude and personality do count, but you can't just have an attitude, you have to have the right attitude. Then again, there are a lot of creative tasks that need to be done and far to many people just want the validation of being in front of the camera while everybody dotes on them, dresses them, does their hair, paints their face, turns them on, and then pays them a living wage on the way out, and at a certain point that can come across a little selfish and spoiled. I like people who do something, who add to their culture. I want to shoot sexy portraiture of important people, significant people, rare and special people.

    That can't happen at the drop of a hat though. Sometimes the planets have to be in alignment, other creative projects have to be at a stable phase, and more and more often, the person I'm thinking of working with needs to appear to have their head on straight too.

    Now, obviously some of these are just my views and I'm certain they don't represent other people's perspective on the subject, so take that for what it's worth.
    Well I don't mean to imply that modeling is 100% based on looks. Someone with a creative flair can make a much better model than a pretty girl with no personality. I just don't understand when girls get offended when a site does reject them based on looks. Appearance is a pretty big part of modeling and if you're going to get offended every time someone doesn't want to work with you because they don't like your look then modeling probably isn't the best idea.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    I get offended when you don't make me a sammich.

  18. #18
    athenahollow's Avatar Smut Peddler
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    Accordingly Pedos and Zoophiliacs are all livin’ it up on the ‘alternative lifestyle’ bandwagon too! I guess next time someone tells me they have an alternative lifestyle I'll ask them if they sodomise horses and drink bull sperm.
    By all technicalities, yes. They would be an alternative lifestyle. But, only those who are attempting to be funny, but really only making themselves look silly would ask someone that........ all things considered, this might be a step up for you :P

  19. #19

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    If i laugh, as far as i'm concerned, its humour. Even your enormous ego probably wouldn't claim to have the final word on what's funny. Admitedly, it was a cheapshot but i did lol, like once or something...
    That's what I said, though. It's amusing to you, but probably only because it exactly expresses your opinion in contrast to a popular one, which tends to lend any statement entertaining value. Now no one can blame you for entertaining yourself first and foremost, but if you're not even aiming for more than one-dimensional laugh-at-your-own-jokes type humor they will have a point when they call your posting shitty.

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    Quality control!? Ok, I'll take your point but only just. Although it does seem rather pedantic when we're talking about posts of such brevity.
    In a general sense. You put a lot more effort into your posts when you're talking to me. And I can see why that's tempting, but it's still a waste even from your perspective in that it's endlessly more fun when people you disparage are forced to agree that there's something to what you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    Accordingly Pedos and Zoophiliacs are all livin’ it up on the ‘alternative lifestyle’ bandwagon too!
    Only us practising ones, though. No notoriety for closet cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    Hmm, so i guess it’s kinda like telling someone that you have a disease instead of just coming straight out and saying that it's gonorrea; its technically true, but you’re really just wasting smart people’s time because they’re obviously going to ask you what disease you have anyway.

    Reminds me of some other pretty much useless words like art and artist. Why can’t people try to be more categorical in their self-descriptions? Surely it'd be better to point out what exactly is so fucking special about yourself instead of leaving people guessing. But i guess that's usually the point.
    You mean telling someone that you live 'an alternative lifestyle', rather than which one specifically? Yeah, that's a pretty silly thing to do. It's still a fair statement that people living alternative lifestyles in a general sense have greater potential to be interesting though, which is kinda what got this started.

    I'd also say that 'art' has unifying characteristics beyond the techniques or product categories involved, although I'm with you in that it's a much abused term.

  20. #20
    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Alternative? Ahhhh....It's all semantics. Just a way of someone trying to be an individual, yet, taking on a trait others express. Don't want to be a sheep? It's easy. Go stand out on a corner in your underwear speaking to a radio that has no batteries. Other than some like that? No matter how hard a person tries....Some part of the herd all the same.

    Raza...Look up Caligula on Google. You're as much an individual as an Energizer battery is different from a Duracell. Doesn't matter if you "think" you decided this all on your own. A man-whore is a man-whore. A playa is a playa. A swinger is a swinger. Call it what you will.

  21. #21
    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Friendly
    I get offended when you don't make me a sammich.

    In all honesty, a lot of so-called altmodels (I shoot cool people not altmodels) would do well to learn how to make a man a quality sammich. If all someone bothers to be is nice-looking, there is a clock running on that, and looks don't last, but cookin' do. A chick who relies exclusively on her looks needs to learn to land a man, rather than whining that the alt site she appeared on a couple times many years ago is not going to support her for life.

  22. #22

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Been missing this.

    Who's gonna read all this, thoo -.-.-.-.-...

  23. #23
    ROGIZOID's Avatar The Grey Child
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by LeilaHazlett
    Why is it that so many alt models feel entitled to be on whatever sites they feel like? Just because you describe yourself as alternative doesn't mean you actually look the part. I'm so sick of girls whining and complaining when sites don't accept them and using the same tired phrase "being alt is about attitude not how you look". If you can't take the fact that being a model means you are judged based on how you look then don't be a fucking model. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I've heard so many girls bitch about being rejected from sites that have specific requirements on having body mods because they apply even though they have few to no body mods. Of coarse you can be alternative without having body mods but if a site is specifically looking for modified girls it's their fucking choice. It's no different than any niche fetish site that only has pregnant girls or blonds or whatever. I've worked with a lot of models and alt models seem to be the only ones who don't understand this concept. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with a bunch of great alt models but I'm sick the 10% of girls out there that don't have a fucking clue about how shit works and feel the need to demonize a site just because they weren't accepted there. If being rejected from a site really upsets you that much then you probably have much bigger issues in your life than not being accepted.

    I agree with you on some point.
    But i feel like if you (model) gets rejected, then dont let it discourage you and complain about it.
    They should try something different.
    Ive never been rejected like "sorry we are looking for something else"
    But there has been a couple of times when people just wont reply and i got the message.
    But im not going to cry or bitch up a storm.



    Bitchez be mad tarded sometimes.
    tsk tsk.

  24. #24
    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
    Alternative? Ahhhh....It's all semantics.
    Your mom is semantics.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by ROGIZOID
    Bitchez be mad tarded sometimes.
    tsk tsk.
    Truer words were never spoken on this board beautiful.

    On the matter of sammiches- It's not so much a girl's ability to cook, or land a man so much as it is having some other redeeming personality qualities that other humans can relate to. I know dozens, and dozens of beautiful women, some are awesome people, and their physical beauty is just kind of like a bonus. Others are so ridiculously hot that you'll practically mortage your soul for an hour of their time, but are such repulsive personalities that you can't wait to get away with a whole skin after you've known them for 15 min. longer....

    And seriously what about folks who can do for themselves? What happened to people like that?

  26. #26
    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

    And seriously what about folks who can do for themselves? What happened to people like that?

    I still seek people who look good *and* have other qualities i.e. can do for themselves as you said, but it is definitely more difficult to find the really stellar humans since the advent of the "altmodel". I think I miss working with some people who really are cool now because I am gunshy from the ones who only want to be adored for their looks . . . yet have no personal style and do not exactly hit the Stairmaster very often.

  27. #27

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
    Alternative? Ahhhh....It's all semantics. Just a way of someone trying to be an individual, yet, taking on a trait others express. Don't want to be a sheep? It's easy. Go stand out on a corner in your underwear speaking to a radio that has no batteries. Other than some like that? No matter how hard a person tries....Some part of the herd all the same.
    I don't agree. Individualism, conformity/nonconformity, counterculture - these things are defined by how you make your choices, not whether their conclusions have never been reached or acted upon by anyone else in the world. Being unique isn't the objective of an openminded but critical attitude to the rest of the world - it is merely the likely product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
    Raza...Look up Caligula on Google. You're as much an individual as an Energizer battery is different from a Duracell. Doesn't matter if you "think" you decided this all on your own. A man-whore is a man-whore. A playa is a playa. A swinger is a swinger. Call it what you will.
    Have very little in common with what's known of the guy. There's far closer historical approximations.

    None really come too close, though. Fact is that you, as somebody who only barely knows me and defines my identity by a few keyword-characteristics in contrast with what you're used to, will always find it easy to compare me to somebody else you have an equally shallow perception of that contains some of the same key elements - but that's about as likely to be accurate as equating two people on a dating site because they've got the same 'describe yourself in three words' line. You're distant from me and the concepts that describe my workings and lose out on detail accordingly; standing two miles away and observing that two specs on the horizon look a lot the same to you isn't really useful.

  28. #28
    and the porridge was just
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    im surprised they took me here- im piercingless (well except in my ears and nipples) and have no tattoos (well i do have a mini heart branded on my leg)

  29. #29
    Amelia G's Avatar chick in charge
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Raza
    I don't agree. Individualism, conformity/nonconformity, counterculture - these things are defined by how you make your choices, not whether their conclusions have never been reached or acted upon by anyone else in the world. Being unique isn't the objective of an openminded but critical attitude to the rest of the world - it is merely the likely product.

    Ding, ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

    The "altmodels" who want to be accepted to various sites for the same reasons someone would want to be accepted to the cheerleading squad . . . well, they kinda don't get it. And, if they are going to make it that sort of a contest, then they need to bring their A game and dress right, work out, and learn the right cheers.

  30. #30
    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    what is a sammich?

  31. #31
    Ajax Knucklebones's Avatar God fearing atheist
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Raza
    I don't agree. Individualism, conformity/nonconformity, counterculture - these things are defined by how you make your choices, not whether their conclusions have never been reached or acted upon by anyone else in the world. Being unique isn't the objective of an openminded but critical attitude to the rest of the world - it is merely the likely product.


    Have very little in common with what's known of the guy. There's far closer historical approximations.

    None really come too close, though. Fact is that you, as somebody who only barely knows me and defines my identity by a few keyword-characteristics in contrast with what you're used to, will always find it easy to compare me to somebody else you have an equally shallow perception of that contains some of the same key elements - but that's about as likely to be accurate as equating two people on a dating site because they've got the same 'describe yourself in three words' line. You're distant from me and the concepts that describe my workings and lose out on detail accordingly; standing two miles away and observing that two specs on the horizon look a lot the same to you isn't really useful.
    You're right, Raza. I don't really know you. You are SOOOOO much different than people I've met. You are such an individual. HAHAHAHAHAHA! You are such an egomaniac, it blows my mind.

  32. #32

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by KessM
    im surprised they took me here- im piercingless (well except in my ears and nipples) and have no tattoos (well i do have a mini heart branded on my leg)

    Thats because you're adorable!

  33. #33
    Mr Karl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    what is alternative these days?............. just about everything's been done

  34. #34
    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    That's really the fallacy of invention- future prophecy. Society evolves at the same level as human intelligence. "Everything has been done" because once something is imagined then that concept is legitimized in to reality. People cannot conceive of an idea that was never thought of because it would be paradoxical- If you think of an idea that was never been thought it has just now been thought of.

    Since imagination is bound to society aka. the physical and mental capabilities of humanity, it's limited in how far it can extend. For instance if you imagined what the world would be like 500 years in the future it would be a vision based not on societal constructs (because current society will not exist at that point) and in all likelihood it will prove to be mostly inaccurate. History tells us that. But guessing what you could accomplish in five years, that is a more reasonable prediction, because it's built on what you already know.

    Anyway, the point is that "alternative" is anything that deviates from the "normal" pattern of mainstream society. Whether anyone does in fact strictly adhere to this at all is up to debate, but the concept itself is a general psychology that is imprinted by society on it's members.

    For Euro-American society it would people who practice non-Judeo-Christian world beliefs, sexuality (and history, and psychology...) other than hetero phallucentric domination, non/anti-capitalist economics; to name a few broad examples.

  35. #35
    Mr Karl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    good explanation...................................oh well, lot's of people don't get things they think they're entitled to............world's like that

  36. #36
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    I enjoyed reading this thread, a lot of disagreements and points to ponder on..
    I would like to hear more from the Model/ maybe actor side of this.

    A lot of you have said yes.. its hard to be accepted, you may not look the part, and or have been rejected for this and another reason. Did this ever sway your decision to become a model?

    Surely, being rejected is a part of the lifestyle? Have any of you gotten used to that? Its not just about being pretty, and or having a good figure. I think ppl want to get to know the brain behind the face.. Or is that strictly confidential?

    You are Pasting yourself amongst us, and not only saying that "here we are"
    " Look at me!!" You also want to be recognised for things other than your beauty. Perhaps your confidence ooozes sex. Are you Aware of that and its impact?
    Did you think that maybe being a sex symbol ( not saying that all would look at it like that) maybe something you may not want to be a part of on the future?

  37. #37

    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by allah
    Everything has "unifying characteristics" but the depth of a person can be measured by their determination to define things as categorically as their abilities allow. It’s exactly because the word art has unifying characteristics ad infintum that the term is so hopelessly stupid in the first place. If Byzantine architecture is art to me, and TV soap opera is art for you, and if the word art covers both things in their respective conversations equally (which it does), then there is a fatal flaw in that word’s descriptive power. The word art only serves to confuse where there should be no confusion and give the pretence of equality between humans where no equality exists.

    The only way to talk meaningfully about the things you like is to do exactly that; explain why you like them. It is that simple!! If you cannot construe why Bosch's paintings are art then Bosch is not art to you; one need not mask their perfectly natural ignorance with cowardly ambiguity. It’s a horrible, pathetic way to give oneself reassurance because its based on the feeling that you should think a certain thing despite the fact that you cannot! This works both ways, so even though I like Bosch, I do not attempt to put my tastes on a pedestal with those of my superiors unless I am able to by fighting tooth and nail, in which case it’s unlikely that they really are my superiors. Bosch is what Bosch is, but it can be more or less art depending on the observer. High art is merely that which is admired by whomever has only enough intelligence to understand it. There is no difference between art and high art; they are the same thing just not for the same person at exactly the same time. You have to keep moving! But nobody should feel ashamed when their instinct tells them that their evaluations of art are less than anyone else’s so long as they’ve exhausted their analytical skills trying to discern why, because we can hardly be blamed for using only the tools at our disposal. In fact this last sentence may be way too forgiving because where there is instinct there is usually room to improve; all it takes is honesty, fortitude and that most holy of faculties, and my pet-favourite: masochism with intent!

    The problem of explaining what art is occurs when someone is already able to explain the things they obviously like but are unable to explain the things that their instinct tells them they should like. Their instinct is probably right but they are not ready to call it art until they try a fuck load harder. There are no special rules regarding art. It must come under the same scrutiny as everything else and I’ve found that one of the first benefits of this scrutiny is the realisation that if ever a word needed to be gotten over, it’s this one. To use a colourful analogy: typographic man is, at heart, a destructive being and when his tools are not sharp enough he cannot use them to dig deeper his coffin. It’s like replacing all the letters in the English alphabet, A through to Z, with X. This symbol wouldn’t be enough for intelligent people to communicate with in written code; they’d need more symbols, more consonants, and at some stage HTML. Where gaps in our understanding occur we shouldn’t stuff them with nonsense, we should begin the long hard road to explaining them. For example, imagine if this inane attitude was used in the sciences; we’d never have looked deeper than our skin, never would have stopped to consider our organs, never discovered cells, never discovered our molecular composition and ultimately DNA. Take this as you will, but even if you think that the arts and sciences are subject to different rules (an attitude I think of as largely a cop-out) you have to admire the superior work ethic.

    I repeat, the only meaningful way to talk about the things you like is to explain why you like them. When a word becomes so vulgar in its inadequacy, so repugnant and useless so as to describe everything and nothing, I fuck it away. Most of my aggression comes not from the fact that when people usually use the word art they have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about at all, but from its prevalent use by people under pressure to disguise their natural ignorance. It’s like, well as soon as they say “its art” the conversation is supposed to be over. Its not fucking over retards, it hasn’t even begun!! To the best of my knowledge I personally have never used the word art in defence of my tastes, at least not since I’ve become an adult. For example I spend quite a lot of my time making, or trying to make music. I’d never call it art. If asked for an explanation of what we do, I would explain what instruments and techniques we use (this is the most important) and then explain exactly what the lyrics were intended to mean and finally why various juxtapositions are used instead of others. This is the only meaningful way I can talk about the music I’m involved in.

    You’ll notice I’ve used the word Art a lot in my argument. That in itself means nothing except how god-awfully stupid this language can be. I shouldn’t have to (except maybe as a term of denigration). And if the word art is kinda dumb then don’t even get me started on the word artist. I reserve an enormous black font full of scorn and hate deep within my stomach for that one...
    Agreed, mostly, and well put. That's only the logical/communication-of-information perspective on the word, though - there's still personal and external psychological manipulation (which isn't as bad as it sounds - we do this all the time whether we try or not, and a lot of our own happiness and social successfulness depends on it) and lingual aesthetic factors that lend the word a lot of impact, and with that rational cause for (arational) use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax
    You're right, Raza. I don't really know you. You are SOOOOO much different than people I've met. You are such an individual. HAHAHAHAHAHA! You are such an egomaniac, it blows my mind.
    Humility is not a requisite for correctness. Besides, nothing I said here relies on me being any more complex than anyone else, so the odder thing to me is that you'd actually expect such a shallow impression to be adequate when you should be in a perfectly good position to know that a similarly simplistic description could never usefully describe you. Product of our inherent human ethnocentric tendencies, I suppose.

  38. #38
    Anna Evans's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Vix
    I enjoyed reading this thread, a lot of disagreements and points to ponder on..
    I would like to hear more from the Model/ maybe actor side of this.

    A lot of you have said yes.. its hard to be accepted, you may not look the part, and or have been rejected for this and another reason. Did this ever sway your decision to become a model?

    Surely, being rejected is a part of the lifestyle? Have any of you gotten used to that? Its not just about being pretty, and or having a good figure. I think ppl want to get to know the brain behind the face.. Or is that strictly confidential?

    You are Pasting yourself amongst us, and not only saying that "here we are"
    " Look at me!!" You also want to be recognised for things other than your beauty. Perhaps your confidence ooozes sex. Are you Aware of that and its impact?
    Did you think that maybe being a sex symbol ( not saying that all would look at it like that) maybe something you may not want to be a part of on the future?
    Rejection is part of life, period. Being a model just means I get rejected based on my looks more frequently than I'm rejected for anything else. I am definitely used to being told I'm too short, too fat, too scarred, too pale, not modified enough, too blonde, not commercial enough...everything about me is a reason that someone won't hire me. If you can't accept that level of physical judgment being a minute by minute part of your life, modeling is not for you.

    Fewer people than you'd think give a shit about the brain or personality of the model. I really value the fans that do care, but they're definitely the minority. Most people just want an upbeat, flirtatious naked chick to fantasize about, they're not too particular about her favorite band or opinions about religion. I'd love it if I were better known for writing than looking good naked, but at the end of the day I'm paying my bills by doing something I love, so it doesn't bother me too much.

    I don't know what the future holds, but I am proud of the work I'm doing now. I enjoy being a sex symbol, and hope to become good enough at marketing myself and lucky enough with networking to be a really well established sex symbol. I do not currently see myself changing so drastically that I would want to enter another line of work in the future. I do realize that I can't model forever, but I currently plan to enter content production.

  39. #39
    and the porridge was just
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Raza
    Besides, nothing I said here relies on me being any more complex than anyone else, so the odder thing to me is that you'd actually expect such a shallow impression to be adequate when you should be in a perfectly good position to know that a similarly simplistic description could never usefully describe you. Product of our inherent human ethnocentric tendencies, I suppose.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: alt models and failing at life

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Evans
    Rejection is part of life, period. Being a model just means I get rejected based on my looks more frequently than I'm rejected for anything else. I am definitely used to being told I'm too short, too fat, too scarred, too pale, not modified enough, too blonde, not commercial enough...everything about me is a reason that someone won't hire me. If you can't accept that level of physical judgment being a minute by minute part of your life, modeling is not for you.
    .
    true. also there are the people who are determined that since you are a model you are stupid and senseless and a whore who just wants the attention.

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