Cocaine Legalization

[incog]

I am copying Amelia's thread about substances. Do you think cocaine or crack should be legalized? Taxed just like other products? Given special extra taxes?

[Morning Glory]

oh god, are you serious? I get dibs on the legalize heroin thread then. but what the fuck, sure, legalize it. hope for more hollywood overdoses.

[ForrestBlack]

I'd like to see a well run sociology experiment comparing a small society with legalized drug usage vs. a small society with potentially dangerous access to illegal drugs. Maybe a hundred people in each group. I bet it would make for interesting results.

[Morning Glory]

how would that work? for one of the groups be like here's a whole bunch of drugs enjoy! and for the other one be like Do not use these drugs! bad! Now I'f you'll excuse me, i'm just going to walk away now... My guess would probibly be the second group uses more drugs, most people do the opposite of what you tell them to.

[Tequila Zaire]

Does the world really need more crackheads?

[ofdarkblood]

Does the world really need more crackheads?

In one word: no.

[OliX]

I say yes. And goverement should give it away for free. Who wants, he gets it. I think problem with crack will be solved wery soon with this strategy ....or not?

And about that thread with marijuana... i would be happy if it stays illegal but decriminalized, and with posibility to have biger amount with you self than usualy.

peace'n'love

[Kidthorazine]

crack, no cocaine, yes but highly goevrnment regulated with clear labeling of reccomended dosages and very strict purity control to prevent accidental overdoses. oh and youd have to keep the price fairly low to drive street dealers out of business.

[Nightingale]

No. I think going to the heavy drugs would be a massive mistake, but the taxes raised from light drugs could be used to put the heavy drug dealers out of business.

[Synthella]

Hell no.

[ForrestBlack]

I'm not certain crack is the best measure for this debate. I mean, you can get ephedrine now but not meth. You can buy coffee on nearly any street corner, and they used to make Coke-a-Cola with cocain instead of caffeine. I don't think the world went to hell in a handbasket. There will always be the opportunity for people to over do things, and it's not like our society keeps all dangerous substances out of our hands now. Well, yet anyway.

[hewhoisagod]

............ no

[MistressJennifer]

Cocaine is illegal? Not in Manhattan Goth clubs. They actually throw you out if you are NOT on coke or crack.

I swear.... A club promoter on crack actually picked me up and shook me the last time I was there...

I'm going to London!!! Yahoo!!!

[One Eyed Cat]

I am copying Amelia's thread about substances. Do you think cocaine or crack should be legalized? Taxed just like other products? Given special extra taxes?

I believe all drugs should be legalized. The drug war has been an abject and monstrous failure which encroaches on our very tenuous civil liberties. I tend to agree with Forrest on sin taxes. I would tax them at a rate not exceeding the sales taxes of any state and put the money into rehabilitation centers. The drug "war" has simply added to organized crime, unfairly impacted minorities, and destroyed the rule of law in areas like property forfeiture. The abuses of the drug war would even make a puritan shudder.

I feel the same way about prostitution and I'm actually a fierce opponent of human trafficking, non consensual pornography, and ANY exploitation of children. The laws have the exact opposite effect of their intention. Organized crime flourishes in those areas that are not regulated by the rule of law. It is essentially a very harsh alternative set of laws.



OEC

[Morning Glory]

yes, everyone knows only good things can come from sniffing mountains of cocaine, haven't you seen scarface? I mean other than his sister fucking his freind and the drug lords trying to kill him, poor tony, people need to leave him alone.

[ForrestBlack]

yes, everyone knows only good things can come from sniffing mountains of cocaine, haven't you seen scarface? I mean other than his sister fucking his freind and the drug lords trying to kill him, poor tony, people need to leave him alone.

Yeah, he was living the American dream and all those jealous fuckers screwed it all up for him. If it were legal, he wouldn't be all that different from the president of Starbucks.

Actually, I don't think prohibition works. Just because something that may not be good for us is available, that doesn't mean most people will go nuts and overdose. Some will, but they probably would now anyway, and with the current system, it's harder for them to get the help they may need.

[LrdSatanas]

the last thing i need is a bunch of crack heads running around the hood. there are enough of them already

[skully]

I'd like to see a well run sociology experiment comparing a small society with legalized drug usage vs. a small society with potentially dangerous access to illegal drugs. Maybe a hundred people in each group. I bet it would make for interesting results.

didn't they do that in hollan or amsterdam or something like that...

i remember hearing of place like that where they set up a park that during certain hours (over night) you were allowed to do whatever drugs you wanted (and they even supplied clean needles to reduce disease spreading..) and in the morning they would just clear out the dead bodies... i don't think it went over to well... as i remember the story going.

[TheDeathKnight]

didn't they do that in hollan or amsterdam or something like that...

i remember hearing of place like that where they set up a park that during certain hours (over night) you were allowed to do whatever drugs you wanted (and they even supplied clean needles to reduce disease spreading..) and in the morning they would just clear out the dead bodies... i don't think it went over to well... as i remember the story going.

My understanding is that because those drugs are not highly criminalized in Holland, people who do them are out in the open. So kids see the junkies laying in the gutter, emaciated, with needle tracks, etc. So the kids do not really want to do those drugs, because they see the results. It's just all out in the open. In the USA, if you are out on the street, strung out, the cops will probably hassle you, or toss you in jail. But there, it's in the open. The good, and the bad. You will see people having fun, and also see people strung out. So you can see both sides. And make your own choices. But in the US, you tend to only see the good side of drugs. You see people out at clubs, partying, and having a good time. Once they get into a really bad state, they stay at home. They can't be out on the street, or they will get caught. Obvious drug addicts in the USA, the cops will spot them, and search them, and probably toss them in jail. So they end up hidden from society, and so people don't personally see the down sides to drug use. The other nice thing about Holland, is that they have public funded places to get off drugs, whenever you want to. So you can stay strung out, or get help. But it's up to you. But at least the government lets people make their own choices...

[Amelia G]

My understanding is that because those drugs are not highly criminalized in Holland, people who do them are out in the open. So kids see the junkies laying in the gutter, emaciated, with needle tracks, etc. So the kids do not really want to do those drugs, because they see the results. It's just all out in the open. In the USA, if you are out on the street, strung out, the cops will probably hassle you, or toss you in jail. But there, it's in the open. The good, and the bad. You will see people having fun, and also see people strung out. So you can see both sides. And make your own choices. But in the US, you tend to only see the good side of drugs. You see people out at clubs, partying, and having a good time. Once they get into a really bad state, they stay at home. They can't be out on the street, or they will get caught. Obvious drug addicts in the USA, the cops will spot them, and search them, and probably toss them in jail. So they end up hidden from society, and so people don't personally see the down sides to drug use. The other nice thing about Holland, is that they have public funded places to get off drugs, whenever you want to. So you can stay strung out, or get help. But it's up to you. But at least the government lets people make their own choices...

That is a really good point I never thought of before. Simply by decriminalizing it, people would be able to see more of the downside of going too far. I have one friend who used to be the life of the party, but now the only way anyone would see how emaciated he is and how his hair is all falling out and how he has trouble following conversations etc. is if they knew him well enough to visit him at home. So tons of people saw the glamour there and only a couple dozen have really seen the other side. And that is just one not particularly extreme example.

Too much butter will kill ya, but we all know what abuse of that looks like.

[Scott]

interestingly enough.. cocaine doesn't really account for all that much death

more people die from
alcohol, cigarettes, sedatives, antidepressants, methadone, and heroin

I don't think it should be totally legal.
but certainly the laws should be relaxed.
People should not be sent to prison because they were doing drugs.

[Mr Karl]

legalize the product but license the user , 90 days for shnorting whitout a license, what you lost your license? no problem , you were probably a little high, tell you what, we'll just stamp your new license on your elbow.
legalize it? hell no , I like being a criminal and not one of them

[TheDeathKnight]

Fuck it. Let people do what they want to do.
I could care less if people want to get high.
If they want to enforce laws, enforce laws on addicts who steal.
Enforce laws about people being high and flying airplanes, etc...
But if people just want to spend their money, and get high,
then let them. Think of all the money they spend on law enforcement
and prisons. That could be used for much better things.
You could fund good rehab clinics, education, and still have
a ton of money leftover for other things. The war on drugs
is a HUGE waste of time, money, and energy. If people
*really* want to get high, they will. They will sniff paint,
or something else, if there are no other drugs available...

[Cerberus]

Heh, then my dealer friends probably couldn't get a job selling it for the government.

[CorporateGoth]

Legalize crack??? Absolutely....supply it for free! All drugs should fall into this program. This way, we can weed out the gene pool, and 80% of the idiots will O.D. before they can breed. Im not trying to say that all drug users are idiots (I used so smoke my weight in pot), just that it seems like a few idiots ruin it for everyone. Lets let the morons off themselves! Is anyone out there actually unaware of the extreme addictiveness of crack? On top of that, let's increase the penalties for violent crime influenced by drugs. Got fucked up on crack and robbed a liquor store? 1st offense: 20 years, no parole!!!
I realize that this method would create havok for a few years, but I think eventually, it would work. And god knows the current system isn't working, could this one be any worse?

[ForrestBlack]

Legalize crack??? Absolutely....supply it for free! All drugs should fall into this program. This way, we can weed out the gene pool, and 80% of the idiots will O.D. before they can breed...

But a lot of terribly smart people get hooked into a cycle of drug use to deal with their alienation. I'm not certain you'd end up losing just the stupid ones. A lot of violently anti-drug people are also dumb as a post.

[SindelChaos]

Uhhh, NO. I think before they would allow any of that to be legalized, they should at least legalize marijuana first. I mean, at least it's proven to help some illnesses. Not, that I do any of that stuff in the first place. I just think we would have a lot more fucked up people if they were selling it in stores and making it legal. There would be more morons especially, children, who are our future.

[CorporateGoth]

But a lot of terribly smart people get hooked into a cycle of drug use to deal with their alienation. I'm not certain you'd end up losing just the stupid ones. A lot of violently anti-drug people are also dumb as a post.

I dont mean to suggest it would rid the world of ALL idiots, I just get tired of seeing a ridiculous amount of time, effort, and money wasted on the "drug war". I know what I said is pretty over the top, (probably should have thought it out a bit more before responding) but the current soultion is not working.
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to sound holier than thou or anything, at one point I had a small pharmacy running through my veins. And I agree, MOST violently anti-drug people are idiots, but lets come up with a seperate solution for them (we always need someone to hand out the crack at the free narcotics stands!)
I

[ForrestBlack]

I dont mean to suggest it would rid the world of ALL idiots, I just get tired of seeing a ridiculous amount of time, effort, and money wasted on the "drug war". I know what I said is pretty over the top, (probably should have thought it out a bit more before responding) but the current soultion is not working.
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to sound holier than thou or anything, at one point I had a small pharmacy running through my veins. And I agree, MOST violently anti-drug people are idiots, but lets come up with a seperate solution for them (we always need someone to hand out the crack at the free narcotics stands!)
I

I agree. I don't think it's as much a criminal problem as it is a medical and social problem. Poor vice policy leads to horrible crime. Always has and always will. The 'war on alchohol' left a lot of people dead in the street, and still a lot of criminal organizations made a lot of money. I know it's a challenge, but a better approach is crucial to the advancement of our society. I'm not saying they should mail out two kilos to every household, like they used to talk about two chickens in every pot, but treating vice with simple harsh jail time isn't really working.

[incog]

I am not asking whether everyone should do cocaine or crack 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Just whether it should be legal. I've done some really great work on cocaine. Still do sometimes. I have done crack exactly two times. Once to try it out. A second time to make sure I really did hate it.

[morbid_lady]

cocaine used to be legal, it was used by doctors.

i have a medical diary from the very early 1900's and it has about 3 pages on the benefits of it, it also has opium and herione in it.

[Morning Glory]

yup, and they used to put it in coca cola.

[incog]

cocaine used to be legal, it was used by doctors.

i have a medical diary from the very early 1900's and it has about 3 pages on the benefits of it, it also has opium and herione in it.

Could you possibly post some of the medical benefits of cocaine here? Doctors still use much derived from opium today.

[VampBoi]

I've done just about everything out there at some point and time and I would have to say, No.

Now pot that's a different story. Can we say NORMAL?

[episode allah]

First they should legalize grass, obviously.

Then legalize the psychedelics like LSD & Mescaline This is because these drugs have been neglected and have serious potential for humanity.

Personally I couldn't care less whether Cocaine is legalised....I guess everything should be; but it is pretty addictive.

[Pzychotic]

............ no

Hell NO!!!

[Ichigo]

Hell no.

[Jax]

Yes. Think about it, would there SERIOUSLY be any difference in use? Let people make their own decision on what they choose to do to their bodies. Now when it extends over into robbery or harm to another person, treat it as it is. A robbery or assault. Ive done every drug in the book, and being illegal didnt stop me. Tax it, and help the economy and those who want to stop with free clinics or low cost clinics. I very rarely hear of death by crack or cocaine, usually its mixed with another drug such as heroine. Coke puts me to sleep, so I dont see a need or use from it for myself, but many of my friends enjoy it, and dont cause societies problems.

[TheDeathKnight]

Until society changes it's attitudes about drug use, it won't do any good to legalize.
It would help ease things in the prisons, but it would probably create a division
between those who use, and those who do not. Jobs would test more frequently,
and it would create a division between goodie-two-shoes who never touch drugs,
and the people who do. And it would become an issue of legal discrimination
against users in all levels of society. At least now people tend to hide it somewhat.
I think if it was legal, people would be listed as users, and discriminated against.
You would not be able to get health insurance, car insurance, etc, if you ever
had any positive testing for drugs, etc.

[TheDeathKnight]

Hmmmmm....

Then again, loss of those "perks" of life might motivate people not to use.
If you could not get a driver's license because you tested positive for drug use,
then it might motivate someone to quit using, so they could have a car to get around...
I have already known of people who have not gotten jobs they wanted,
because they failed a drug test. So they do know that if they want some
of the things they want, they have to stop using...

But regardless what punishment or incentive you offer people,
people will still want to get high. People just need to realize that,
and let people do what they want, and offer help to people who want it.
The problem is that our society tends to try to legislate people's behavior.
We try to make people do what we think is best for them, or punish
them for doing things we do not agree with. Which is fine, if what
they are doing is hurting me, or other people. But if all they are
doing is hurting themselves, then leave them alone.
Let people do what they want with their own bodies.
Be that drugs, abortion, or euthenasia...