Conformity/Originality

[CorporateGoth]

Okay, I just finished reading and posting on another thread, which I think leads to a new thread, so here goes.
Where is the line between conformity and originality? Lets assume that a person feels alienated by the "mainstream", so they find themselves trying to fit in with "counterculture" types to express this alienation. How is this being non-conformist? If a "underground" person actually likes, say, Celine Dion (ugh), is that person conforming by liking a product of the mainstream? I was under the impression that non-conformity meant not giving a rat's ass about popular opinion and just being who you are, regardless of whether is is "mainstream" or "underground" or any combonation of both. Opinions?... Comments?... Anyone want some cheese?

[Morning Glory]

there's no such thing as non-conformity because the things that people base their culture on are thing's that everyone posseses, and not about thing's unique to individuals.. that's kind of the entire point of what culture is meant to be, to lump people togther into a standardised catregory ( however un-standard to other cultures it may be). I mean trying to be different can be the biggest comformist thing to do, because maybe how you are IS how some other people are, and in trying to be different, you are trying to be someone else other than yourself. basically everyone is an Image whore, we can't avoid it, and it's not neccesarily a bad thing that we live in a society advanced enough to the point where can appreictae things based on thier aesthetic qualities, other than just being utilitarian. It's not wrong to do something because you enjoy it, no matter whatever label people slant on it- mainstream, sub-culture, conformist/non-comformist- these are just abstract expressions that don't represent anything in concrete reality. You're style should represent your personality, not the other way around.

[One Eyed Cat]

Okay, I just finished reading and posting on another thread, which I think leads to a new thread, so here goes.
Where is the line between conformity and originality? Lets assume that a person feels alienated by the "mainstream", so they find themselves trying to fit in with "counterculture" types to express this alienation. How is this being non-conformist? If a "underground" person actually likes, say, Celine Dion (ugh), is that person conforming by liking a product of the mainstream? I was under the impression that non-conformity meant not giving a rat's ass about popular opinion and just being who you are, regardless of whether is is "mainstream" or "underground" or any combonation of both. Opinions?... Comments?... Anyone want some cheese?

It's a silly dichotomy. Just go with your passions and convictions and let popular culture sort itself out. Don't deny anything because it may be "popular" or embrace anything "underground" for it's own sake. Be true to your own experience.


OEC

[morbid_lady]

i find that alot of ppl who call themselves original or say that they dont follow trends seem to follow trends in a different way.

using my brother as an example....
he titles himself to be a punk, and says that he doesnt follow fasion trends, his circle of friends say this aswell, yet last summer they all JUST HAD to have dickies (a brand-name company that makes work pants), and then it was having to have 'chucks' (old-school high-top converse running shoes), now its cutting the tops off wool work socks to wear as cuffs and plastic bracelets.

cant all this still be considered following trends, even if u cant find em in american eagle or bluenotes?

[Amelia G]

Amen to both what OneEyedCat and morbid_lady said.

If you like Celine Dion because you (okay, I am reaching here) enjoy her voice, her music, her work, then that is not conformist, no matter whether you are a crusty old punk or a sex-starved housewife who has watched Titanic thirty times. If you decide to like Celine Dion because scoring tickets to her show will impress the Las Vegas VIP circuit people you want to hang with . . . well, that would be conformity.

I think that in order to be original, you have to truly be able to analyze the world around you, think critically, and come to your own conclusions and tastes. If you like something because a group you are trying to fit in with -- mainstream, gothic, punk, fandom, country club, whatever -- like the thing, then you are conforming. It doesn't matter what the group is; it just matters what the individual's intentions are. If you dislike something because a group likes it, that is conformity as well, albeit a less constructive kind.

I remember when Nine Inch Nails started getting pretty popular. I was standing in the old 9:30 Club in DC watching a monitor before the band played and some NIN footage came on. I was watching with two gentlemen who went by the monikers of Psycho and Xylo and they were like, "they suck now, I liked their old stuff." Confused, I turned to them and asked what they meant, given that Trent Reznor had only come with ONE album at the time. I didn't understand what had changed.

Thanks for the cool thread CorporateGoth.

[Mirren]

It's all about what you get off on. The minute you let someone else's opinion's influence you, it starts to set a precedent. You can't go through life giving a shit what is original or trendy, you just go with it. I am listening to "Can you feel the love tonight" from The Lion King, I don't give a fuck who likes it or not. It's a beautiful song to me.

[Amelia G]

It's all about what you get off on. The minute you let someone else's opinion's influence you, it starts to set a precedent. You can't go through life giving a shit what is original or trendy, you just go with it. I am listening to "Can you feel the love tonight" from The Lion King, I don't give a fuck who likes it or not. It's a beautiful song to me.

Absolutely

[TheWalkingGlitch]

We see far too many people wearing "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same" tshirts. Because apparently, few things express individuality like conformity in brand name selection.

Most often, it seems that people will get into something "fringe" either because they find the "mainstream" lacking but still do not posess the force of will to dump it and think for themselves, or because they really do find something of value there but want to seem "hardcore" to their friends. They still blindly follow, but simply walk behind a different leader.

[CPRB]

We all have a boddy to walk in it may not be perfect but it's the one go d gave us and what's insde is unique. I find most subcultures are more negative then most mainstream cultures becasue ofthe " fear" of being pigoenholed and common. I have never fitted into any group....and at this point I don't care, based on the fact most cliques and groups have a heard menatlity and I am not one for being driven of cliffs with the heard. Like Amelia said you have to look around you and think and deduce what si right wrong and what you feel comfortable with. there is nothign nicer the truly not giving an damn what anyone thinks especially when you do it with tack, manners, and style. In a world where it seem we have to give a response to everything and have difinitve social markers. my big beef is skateboarding..I love it but I can not condone the attitude or image that it has now, I aslo find most skaters to be worse the yer avergae jock for intelligence and sociall abilities...I do what I feel comfy with. One of my favourite things to do is go musi shopping 'cause I alwasy cause the store clerk to look confused and uncertain. My favourite is "oh how nice buying Lps or CD's for yer friends?'...."no they're all mine". A lil Jazz, some Punk, a lil hardcore some Emb a pinch of metal a lil rap, some rock and roll, some house and some jungle....maybe some classical and opera too hell why not throw in a Johnny Cash CD for good measure... I have become selfish to my own emotions and needs and through that and exploring the world around me I feel free and on the outside of it all....as for leaders....if teh apthetic fuckers want one that's fine becuase then i know where they are and can avoid them.

[CPRB]

as for cheese I am running low a nice 3 yeard old Canadan cheddar and some Monzerrall wuld be nice....hmmm something tangy ughhh how about som asiago?

[CPRB]

I said God!?!?! oh good grief I hope you realize I meant that in general terms I know aliens made us....anyhow next topic?

[Oil~Boy 26]

i am leaving no post to the topic so does that make me kool ?????
OB~26 ?????

[incog]

[QUOTE=AmeliaG]
I remember when Nine Inch Nails started getting pretty popular. I was standing in the old 9:30 Club in DC watching a monitor before the band played and some NIN footage came on. I was watching with two gentlemen who went by the monikers of Psycho and Xylo and they were like, "they suck now, I liked their old stuff." Confused, I turned to them and asked what they meant, given that Trent Reznor had only come with ONE album at the time. I didn't understand what had changed.
QUOTE]

That is so typical.

[CorporateGoth]

I remember when Nine Inch Nails started getting pretty popular. I was standing in the old 9:30 Club in DC watching a monitor before the band played and some NIN footage came on. I was watching with two gentlemen who went by the monikers of Psycho and Xylo and they were like, "they suck now, I liked their old stuff." Confused, I turned to them and asked what they meant, given that Trent Reznor had only come with ONE album at the time. I didn't understand what had changed.

.

I saw Metallica on tour for the Black Album (yeah yeah yeah, I know....), their first big tour with Jason Newstead. I remember standing there in front of a couple of kids who were discussing the fact that this album was the first one Metallica put out with a bass player!!! Anyone ever heard of Cliff Burton???

[Morning Glory]

eh. everyone's in favor of originality until it goes against what they like. I seem to remember when I was threated with physical violence by so-called "open minded" "non-comformist" "original"... the list of lables goes on, type of people because I dared not to like Johnny Cash. not to mention the daily onslaught of insults dished out at me on this board for not liking what someone else likes. It's just like the Giant douche/ turd sandwhich episode of south park. "When we said that you should vote, because it's your right to express yourself, we meant you should vote for OUR candidate."

[LrdSatanas]

It's a silly dichotomy. Just go with your passions and convictions and let popular culture sort itself out. Don't deny anything because it may be "popular" or embrace anything "underground" for it's own sake. Be true to your own experience.


OEC

I couldn;t have said it better myself.

[Amelia G]

eh. everyone's in favor of originality until it goes against what they like. I seem to remember when I was threated with physical violence by so-called "open minded" "non-comformist" "original"... the list of lables goes on, type of people because I dared not to like Johnny Cash. not to mention the daily onslaught of insults dished out at me on this board for not liking what someone else likes. It's just like the Giant douche/ turd sandwhich episode of south park. "When we said that you should vote, because it's your right to express yourself, we meant you should vote for OUR candidate."

Actually, if you read my list of turn-ons in my profile, originality is very important to me. Some of my best friends certainly like bands I do not and vice-versa. Nobody on this board is going to come to your house with a baseball bat because you profess not to like the Man in Black.

You most certainly have not received a "daily onslaught of insults" here. I can recall only one instance where you were getting into it with someone and I intervened and asked you both to play nice and you both did play nice afterwards. I am all in favor of spirited debate, but, if things degenerate, please just use the report post and Forrest or I (or possibly a mod) will do our best to bring the discussion back to the land of intelligent discourse.

[Nudemuse]

After reading this thread I realized that I actually think about conformity/originality a lot less than I used to. I realized quite a long time ago that I like what I like. Some of the stuff I like some people will think is strange/stupid/odd/gross/etc etc. That doesn't bother me overmuch at all. I've grown very comfortable with my tastes and don't have the time nor the energy to worry about what someone else might think of it.

That said, hell yeah I am an Original Shannon made in the womb there's not another like me.

[hewhoisagod]

I always liked the line "I'm a non conformist, just like all my friends". I always find it funny whenever I go to a show. I'm usually one of maybe 10 people not wearing black, leather, make-up, or hair dye. Someone is going to have similar opinions. Some people may love one song, some people may hate that exact same song. And as far as the Nine Inch Nails thing....... that's usually just some asshole trying to prove their coolness to someone else. I used to have the shirt "I used to like N'Sync when they were underground".

[Drakken]

Anti-conformity is conforming to not conform.
Everyone wants to be different.
The conformist is the true rebel.

[skully]

ok so hear is the question. you see someone with something (say a mohawk or a cool piercing or what have you) and you say damn i really like that and go and get one... is that conformity?

[Drakken]

ok so hear is the question. you see someone with something (say a mohawk or a cool piercing or what have you) and you say damn i really like that and go and get one... is that conformity?

No it's not. I'd have to assume conformity is among the masses.
Besides, when the first caveman saw his buddy kill an animal and wear it's pelt to stay warm it was more a good idea than it was 'conformity.' Not saying mohawks are necessary for survival, more if it feels/looks good; do it.

Of course sometimes especially in the 'highschool' level I guess where popularity/image actually means something the kid you saw with the mohawk might have something negative to say. I say fuck him. Especially if it looks better on you.

[TheDeathKnight]

It's interesting, because I remember when I was younger, I used to say I followed my own choices, and did not need to do things to fit in. So I looked pretty generic, but had very diverse tastes in music, movies, friends, interests, etc... I felt like I was doing what I wanted to do, and not doing anything to fit in with any group, etc...

But now that I am older, and more comfortable with who I am, what I am, and I have confidence in myself, I find that I am much more willing to look non-conformist, and be creative with my appearance. I have a friend now, who says the same thing I used to say. She likes a lot of the same things I do, but she does not look the part. And she claims that she does not need to look goth, etc, just to fit in with any one group. And yet she sometimes says that she wishes she had the guts to really do interesting things with her appearance. So looking at how I used to be, and how she is, I feel that sometimes people who say they are just being themselves, and not doing anything to fit in with anyone, are not really as confident as they claim. If you are really unconcerned with what people think, and you see some pink 70's pants, that look really cool, will you wear them? Or will you worry what other people will think? If you see someone with a mohawk, and you think it looks cool, what keeps you from doing one? Some people will claim that they do not want to try to be "cool". But in reality, I think they are actually afraid to actually do it. As long as they feel comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt, they feel like they are just being themselves. But what about self-expression?

I just get a little annoyed that some people claim to be so hardcore about being themselves, but in reality, they are afraid to look however they want to look. They say they just wear what is comfortable. Well, what if there is a really comfortable pair of yellow plaid pants? Will you wear them? Probably not...

[DharmaLion]

No it's not. I'd have to assume conformity is among the masses.
Besides, when the first caveman saw his buddy kill an animal and wear it's pelt to stay warm it was more a good idea than it was 'conformity.' Not saying mohawks are necessary for survival, more if it feels/looks good; do it.

Of course sometimes especially in the 'highschool' level I guess where popularity/image actually means something the kid you saw with the mohawk might have something negative to say. I say fuck him. Especially if it looks better on you.

Conformity: behaving or thinking in a socially acceptable or expected way. Similarity in form or character; agreement

Getting a mohawk because (well for any reason since you are "buying" in to an established icon) you like someone else's is absolutely conformity....the point made (very eloquently btw OEC and Amelia) above is "who cares?"

Much like a computer, the human brain REQUIRES measurement and classification for ALL of the input it rceives, even if that classification is "misc" or "non-conformist."

These are concepts that are only meant for metering anyway. Adding any more value to the idea of conformity as a means for self-definition and you risk crossing over into abject subjectivity....in other words, opinion.

[DharmaLion]

I remember when AND the old 9:30 Club in DC

I've got like 2349865239847562894765 threads that start with these exact 2 statements.

anyone remember when NIN was 9inchnails?