What do you think should be the punishment for murder?

[Amelia G]

How should a just society handle murder? Should a murderer be executed, imprisoned for a long time, imprisoned for life, imprisoned until they no longer seem to be a menace to society? Should family of the victim get to flip the switch or swing the axe? If we have the technology to "reabilitate" someone so that they would never kill again, would it be right to use that? Is pressing religion on the guilty helpful, teaching them right from wrong? Is insanity an excuse?

What is actually the right and moral and ethical way for a just and fair and good society to deal with someone who has ended another member of that society's life?

[MistressJennifer]

The guillotine!!! And you should be dressed in your total Bordello outfit with antique velvet hat and coatdress and fan!!!(And fake mole). In those days, murder was very entertaining....

[One Eyed Cat]

How should a just society handle murder? Should a murderer be executed, imprisoned for a long time, imprisoned for life, imprisoned until they no longer seem to be a menace to society? Should family of the victim get to flip the switch or swing the axe? If we have the technology to "reabilitate" someone so that they would never kill again, would it be right to use that? Is pressing religion on the guilty helpful, teaching them right from wrong? Is insanity an excuse?

Death, preferably televised. To use technology to rehabilitate is reminiscent of A Clockwork Orange. I believe one has to have a choice. I'd let the family kill them. I have lived thru the Polly Klaas case firsthand. I know her family and what it did to them.

What is actually the right and moral and ethical way for a just and fair and good society to deal with someone who has ended another member of that society's life?

Death, preferably televised. I'd lock up child molesters for life as well.


OEC

[23*]

In cases where the murder was exceedingly violent and premeditated they should have to serve their full life sentences without respite (or TV.).

Death penalty?....no way....leave that to the Gods.

[One Eyed Cat]

I should qualify my statement by saying I have first degree murder in mind. I stand by the death penalty, however.

OEC

[23*]

The way I see it dude is that execution is a gray area....some people think its terrible, some people think its great.

On the other hand, very few people disagree that we should lock up murderers.

Now my point is this; we can never know that we are 100% right.

If we accept that another persons theory might be right, then shouldn't we do just what is generally agreed?...is execution that much worse than life in prison?

I am of course only talking about social laws....what we do with ourselves is our own buisness.

[BrightStar]

Depends on the reason of the Murder completely . **

[chaosfeary]

is killing somebody in self defense counted just as bad as killing someone for no reason? not really sure of the laws here, let alone the US

[One Eyed Cat]

is killing somebody in self defense counted just as bad as killing someone for no reason? not really sure of the laws here, let alone the US

No, that's justifiable homicide. No punishment. You do have to present an affirmative defense to prove it, tho.

OEC

[chaosfeary]

I don't think that's possible here, I think it's "manslaughter" or something. I haven't really studied it, just picked things up from media etc. I think the US law makes more sense, considering that it is considered acceptable in nearly all countries by the law for people to kill in defence of a country's people or that country's freedom.. saying you can then not defend individual people from being hurt or killed then doesn't really make sense *shrug* as long as it's definitely justified defence of course.. people shooting someone or whatever over social disputes or whatever is not on the same level at all, that's not what I am getting at.

[23*]

nono ....manslaughter is when you kill someone by accident.
We have murder by degree here too.

[Morning Glory]

Well, I don't know about rehabilitation by technology...since we have no such technology other than as stated before, a clockwork-orange-like brainwashing, I'd have to say that is highly unethical. In any kind of free society, short of legalizing murder, at the very least you can't force your morals onto other people. that's the problem with our law system, and why it doesn't work, there is no gray area. They take one possible scenario and apply a solution based on that to a hundred other possibilities. The other problem is that most of our laws are based on biblical moral code. Some of us have realized that religion is stagnant to human advancement, and have abandoned it. but we still hold god's morals as the basis of our right and wrong, because we've been conditioned our whole lives to believe it, maybe from people who did the same thing and never believed it themselves.
That's the first thing we need to do to get anywhere, revaluate our system of values. Humanity is much more complex that a single page in any book, whether it's "gods" or the governments. With that in mind we should examine a law based on it's logical effects and purpose. so then the question to be asked is why is mudrer wrong? well, that's an easy one, since most of us would agree on it. It cuts off all progress of an individual and of a society robbing them of thier potential and experience, as well as feelings and emotions, and those of the people around them, esp. people that knew and loved them. First and formost if we agree that killing someone is wrong, then we have to abolish the death penalty. there is no logical reason for it, it's just killing another person, and for the most hypocritical reason. not to mention the person that killed the killer is now a killer themself, so they should be subject to excecution under the death penalty law.
I'd say the only instance where it is acceptable to kill another person, is if they are going to kill you. However, it should be examined as to the full extent of that proceeding. Like for instance, unless they really did intend to kill you or were in a position where they implied that's what they were going to do, and were able to do it at that time, then it's self defense. If someone gets in their car and they are driving at you (this is a scenario that I've seen many people encounter IE: police officers) if you can just get out the way to avoid getting hit, then it's not acceptable to kill that person in self-defense. Also the amount of force should be taken into consideration if someone is attacking you. Say if someone has a knife and you pull out a gun and shoot them in the head, it has to be proven that that was the only defense to prevent you from receiving a mortal wound. If they were ten feet away when you shot them, then it is not self-defense, and you are to receive a penalty for it, because you could have prevented mortal injury to yourself without killing that person, by shooting them in a non-lethal area, for example.
My solution to murder would be deportation. Since a person has proven to be a danger to the community, the best humane solution is to make them leave the community, that way that person can still live out their life, but not endanger others. If other killers are on the same island as them, they know the odds and if they want to kill each other, then that's their problem. If they should end up coming back to the society, then everyone will know that they are a killer and be on guard against them, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Ideally, of course, we'd like to create a society where people don't have the drive to murder each other, but sadly, I don't see that ever happening. what with all the drugs we take today, who knows what kind of chemical imbalances it will have on future generations. and worst of all our society sets no example, it only alienates the people that need help, and drives them against each other, and our culture is a disgust. Everywhere you go, people are saying "support out troops", it's the most ridiculous thing of all, we not only excuse, but reward people for being part of a system that's core purpose is murdering other people because they don't agree with us, the very same thing we have been told our whole lives is an antithesis of civlization.

[karyn]

fry them except for unavoidable self-defense. i would not accept self-defense as an excuse if they could have run away or divorced the jerk. what is the point of life in prison? my taxes are high enough.

[KilLAtomiK]

ive always believed that the punishment should fit the crime for example, if you steal the person whom you robbed gets to take anything from you with a minimum of twice the value that you stole, if you atack someone with saqy a knife they get to atack you with a sword, if you kill someone the family gets to kill you

[Morning Glory]

Hammurabi's code. He was the one that came up with the idea of "eye for an eye", by equating the punishment to the crime. If your kid broke your neighbors window, then they could either a. buy you a new window, or b. break one of your windows. I think they also had the option of beating your kid. His laws actually kind of made sense, in a weird sort of way. but they were thrown out in favor of such brillaint ideas as "trial by combat"- if someone commited a crime against you, you could challenge them to a fight. If you killed them, then the penalty was payed for. If they killed you, they were innocent of the crime, and allowed to go on thier merry way. and the famous "trial by water"- if you commited a crime you were tied up and thrown in the river. if you drowned, you were innocent. if you swam up to the surface, you were guilty, and taken to the shore and executed.
I guess these laws were pretty succesfull in preventing crime, because everyone killed each other, and the society collapsed and there was no one left to commit crimes against each other anymore.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Lotta questions to this one, let's see.

First, forcing religion on someone is plain wrong imho. The main reason being, who get's to choose the religion? Likewise, brainwashing is unacceptable primarily because it leaves us with the problem, who decides what they get programmed to?

So what do you do with murderers? Revenge should not be the purpose of a justice system. Sure, if someone killed one of my loved ones I would want to kill them right back, but institutionalized revenge leads to problems, especially when the friends and family if the murderer get revenge in thier head. Once you tell people is ok at the state level, people get it into thier head that they shouldn't have to wait for silly things like trials.

I believe in the death penalty, but I believe it is currently applied poorly. The death penalty should be reserved for people who cannot be reintroduced into society. This to me means any repeat offenders of a malicious violent crime. Repeat offenders being the key. The guy who kills someone once during a robbery did a horrible thing, but may be redeemable. To me he is less of a threat than a serial rapist who never kills. Right now special circumstance and peoples emotions are deciding who gets the death penalty which leads to too much inequity. If, on more than one occasion, you commit ****, murder or mayhem, you get the death penalty. It is not about revenge, it is about removing a serious threat to society. Even in prison men can do harm, if only to other prisoners and the guards. We shot old yeller for yog's sake and we liked him. Sometimes putting them down is the only way.

In the case of a single murder, 10+ of actual labor with the money going to a victims fund seems reasonable. No working out, no cable tv, no rec rooms, actual labor. During the prisoner's down time they can do things to work towards rehabilitation, but first a real work day.

[adorn_shadow]

I say for the child molesters, rapists, and murderers, tatto it on their forehead, so when they are rereleased into society, they are ostricised by all!

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Only problem with that is they won't be ostricized by all, look how many people worship killers now.

[adorn_shadow]

True, Damn People are fucked up, I just want to win a billion dollars buy my own self sustained island and be happy for the rest of my life without outside influence!

[jynxed hero]

How should a just society handle murder? Should a murderer be executed, imprisoned for a long time, imprisoned for life, imprisoned until they no longer seem to be a menace to society? Should family of the victim get to flip the switch or swing the axe? If we have the technology to "reabilitate" someone so that they would never kill again, would it be right to use that? Is pressing religion on the guilty helpful, teaching them right from wrong? Is insanity an excuse?

What is actually the right and moral and ethical way for a just and fair and good society to deal with someone who has ended another member of that society's life?

Wouldn't it have to vary from society to society. It's difficult (and not really right) to impose one society's beliefs onto another's. For America I think the death penalty is appropriate. While I don't agree with death penalty a lot of people do. I don't think it serves much purpose. The likelyhood a person is going to escape from prison. Escaping and avoiding capture is DEFINATELY not high either.
Personally I think a prisoner should be imprissoned for life and actually for life, not just 25 years or that bs. Just because death is too easy of a punishment. It also ensures that if there was a mistake and they're innocent they'll at least have another chance to live life. While in prison I think they should be doing something other than just lifting weights and socializing. They should be forced to do some sort of productive labor. They shouldn't get luxuries like TV or weights. Books should be a privledge for them. Since they're the ones who commited a crime they foreifitted their privledges. They should get as bland of food as possible and the most spartan living conditions as possible.
I think that allowing a family to participate in an excecution is more lik revenge. Leaving the actual execution to the state (as it is in America now) makes it less like revenge and more like a punishment.
I don't think there would ever be a technology that would prevent a person from killing again. There are so many different reasons that people kill that it'd be nearly impossible for a person to be simply fixed and made all better. It'd also be just too invasive... Forcing a religion on anybody is too invasive too.
I think insanity is an excuse. I just think the standards for insanity may be too low. A lot of times people are probably aware what they're doing is wrong.

In the end...I personally don't agree with the death penalty but think it should be left up to the specific society.

[One Eyed Cat]

fry them except for unavoidable self-defense. i would not accept self-defense as an excuse if they could have run away or divorced the jerk. what is the point of life in prison? my taxes are high enough.

It would be hard to ascertain when someone could just "run away". In a lot of cases, more than one person is at risk. If someone comes on your property, you already have the right to put a cap in their ass in most states in the US. Obviously, it should be the last resort.

OEC

[Tequila Zaire]

Just make em watch UPN at primetime on a bulletproof TV with a one shot revolver on a sidetable. Granted it'd be cruel and unsusual but rather humane really...no one should have to suffer UPN without the option of suicide.

[23*]

I'm surprised that so many of you seem to be pro-execution.

It just doesn't make much sense rationally.

[Kidthorazine]

i say trial by combat old school style swords and fists only or maybe duelling pistols if the accused is maimed and unable to fight but still alive he gets setenced to prison for life with possible parole after perhaps twenty years at least

[KilLAtomiK]

I'm surprised that so many of you seem to be pro-execution.

It just doesn't make much sense rationally.

on my defence i am a pirate so execution prety much solves all my problems in a jiffy

[Morning Glory]

what's the deal with walking the plank? is it supposed to be like a mind fuck? why not just throw em off the side of the boat?

[Morning Glory]

on the subject of the death penalty, for one it's a ridiculous standard because of what it represents. If I went out and killed the person who kidnaped and tortured children, I'd be put to death for it... which would be saying that It was wrong for me to kill that person, but that it was right to kill me. how does that make sense? even if the situation is not that black and white the bottom line is that the death penalty says one murder is wrong, but another is acceptable. that's a level of hypocrocy that we wouldn't tolerate in our jobs or entertainment, so why should we tolerate it when it comes to a persons life?

[Tequila Zaire]

on the subject of the death penalty, for one it's a ridiculous standard because of what it represents. If I went out and killed the person who kidnaped and tortured children, I'd be put to death for it... which would be saying that It was wrong for me to kill that person, but that it was right to kill me. how does that make sense? even if the situation is not that black and white the bottom line is that the death penalty says one murder is wrong, but another is acceptable. that's a level of hypocrocy that we wouldn't tolerate in our jobs or entertainment, so why should we tolerate it when it comes to a persons life?

And that's the question it raises in every state...no clear answer both pro and against since each sides feels they are in the right. The pro side simply sees it as justice...you kill a person viciously then like a rabid dog you need to be put down to save others. It raises that question of how is one killing justifiable and another not? At the same time one has to wonder if Prison and the death penalty even matter give how professional criminals and killers work the system to their advantage much of the time...even a death row inmate tends to have a lengthy life in prison...many times a longer one than their victims ever had...though you have to admit deep down their are crimes you really want to kill a person for...morality and ethics are rea l hard to keep clear as is reason in those situations.

[KilLAtomiK]

what's the deal with walking the plank? is it supposed to be like a mind fuck? why not just throw em off the side of the boat?

it is a bit of a "mind fuck" because the person is being force to jump off on his own will its more fun than just tossing them overboard

[Shadow]

In cases where the murder was exceedingly violent and premeditated they should have to serve their full life sentences without respite (or TV.).

Death penalty?....no way....leave that to the Gods.

I agree.. leave that to the Gods.. we are not the onse to say who dies and who lives let them rot in prison and dwell on what they have done plus by killing them you are just seting them free and why do that I mean think about it would you rather be killed on the spot or die in prison?? when your in jail you are told when you can piss and when you eat I think it is more of a punishmet.
Shadow

[Tequila Zaire]

I agree.. leave that to the Gods.. we are not the onse to say who dies and who lives let them rot in prison and dwell on what they have done plus by killing them you are just seting them free and why do that I mean think about it would you rather be killed on the spot or die in prison?? when your in jail you are told when you can piss and when you eat I think it is more of a punishmet.
Shadow

See I'm with the chinese in this case...put the prisoners to work as forced laborers and use their organs for transplants and medical experiments. Sure it violates human rights but those inside already did so.

[adorn_shadow]

See I'm with the chinese in this case...put the prisoners to work as forced laborers and use their organs for transplants and medical experiments. Sure it violates human rights but those inside already did so.

I most certaintly think we should Put them to work as labourers! I dont think prisoners should be able to have the luxuries of pool tables and TV. Fuck em! Medical Experiments fuck yeah!

[grebo]

depends on the nature of the crime, but the person who does it for sexual thrills should be chemically castrated, then all you have to deal with is the mental side of it.

[dahliadark]

For murder, men should have a choice between
being a prison bitch or castration.
And women, well we should be allowed to
kill whomever we want.


As for organ donations,
NEVER EVER EVER put that you are an organ donor
on your drivers license.
There are so many shady hospitals in need of
organs. And some doctors might not let you live,
because they think someone else deserves your organ,
and they will let you die.
Or if you end up in the hospital for whatever reason,
don't ever sign the form for organ donation.
They can't touch em, not even after your dead.

I know its nice to help out others,
but sometimes you cannot trust those in charge.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

The thing with me and the death penalty, it is not about punishment primarily at that point. When they shot old yeller its wasn't for revenge, it was because he had become a threat to the farm. Likewise, I don't think of the death penalty as a punishment or a threat, but the permenant removal of a dangerous threat from society. Life in prison kinda does that, but usually those guys are still a threat to other prisoners (who may not be rapists and murderers) and the guards. It is not hypocracy because we are not saying killing is wrong, we are saying that there should be a damn good reason for it. (well, at least I am)

I have heard Canada's max security is as sever as our death row. If that were done here, maybe I could see doing away with the death penalty.

[SindelChaos]

Death, preferably televised. To use technology to rehabilitate is reminiscent of A Clockwork Orange. I believe one has to have a choice. I'd let the family kill them. I have lived thru the Polly Klaas case firsthand. I know her family and what it did to them.

Death, preferably televised. I'd lock up child molesters for life as well.


OEC

Well, I guess giving the family the choice of killing the murderer is fair, but having a similar situation happen to me, I wouldn't want to kill the person. I'd be more likely to torture them for a prolonged period of time, so they would know the pain I would feel for the rest of my life.

As far as publicly televising it, I suppose it would put fear into people to convince them not to commit such a crime. Similarly, to hanging the dead in a bird cage in a tree, so the whole town could see in the middle ages. I don't know though, I think putting fear into your people is a little overboard. It works, I guess, but I think it would be better finding another way.

I totally agree with the child molestor thing. I'd lock them up to get ***** in the ass with the biggest scariest, guy I could find. Doing things like that to children is just wrong.

[Drakken]

How should a just society handle murder? Should a murderer be executed, imprisoned for a long time, imprisoned for life, imprisoned until they no longer seem to be a menace to society? Should family of the victim get to flip the switch or swing the axe? If we have the technology to "reabilitate" someone so that they would never kill again, would it be right to use that? Is pressing religion on the guilty helpful, teaching them right from wrong? Is insanity an excuse?

What is actually the right and moral and ethical way for a just and fair and good society to deal with someone who has ended another member of that society's life?

I'm Canadian, we don't have the death penalty. It severely digusts me when a serial rapist/murderer/********* is out of jail on 'good behavior' because of some new rehab program. Placed in a new community with a new identity all set up to do it again. People like Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka should never see the light of day again, even if it IS inside a jail cell.

As for 'criminal rehabilitation'? It's a total joke. I've done extensive research on its 'success' and found that 80% of criminals WORLDWIDE who underwent rehab re-offend anyways. It's a waste of government money and in countries like the United States instead of giving a rapist a 'get out of jail free' pass it could be better spent on things like health care.

If someone killed or *****(or both) someone I cared about I'd kill the Mother Fucker in the most painful way imaginable. Possibly even some of his or her family and friends simply for my aggravation.

[One Eyed Cat]

I'm Canadian, we don't have the death penalty. It severely digusts me when a serial rapist/murderer/********* is out of jail on 'good behavior' because of some new rehab program. Placed in a new community with a new identity all set up to do it again. People like Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka should never see the light of day again, even if it IS inside a jail cell.

As for 'criminal rehabilitation'? It's a total joke. I've done extensive research on its 'success' and found that 80% of criminals WORLDWIDE who underwent rehab re-offend anyways. It's a waste of government money and in countries like the United States instead of giving a rapist a 'get out of jail free' pass it could be better spent on things like health care.

If someone killed or *****(or both) someone I cared about I'd kill the Mother Fucker in the most painful way imaginable. Possibly even some of his or her family and friends simply for my aggravation.

Agree with this sentiment. My first real dealing with criminal justice was in 1993. I was out at a cafe with a friend of mine. We left for maybe 3 hours and came back to see her cousin's picture plastered all over town. Her name was Polly Klaas. She was later found ***** and murdered near a retirement community where my grandparents lived. We have both been active in passing legislation such as Megan's Law and quite frankly vigilantism regarding molesters and their whereabouts. I had to stop recently as I was unable to process all the anger. You can just imagine what her family has been thru. The son of a fucking bitch is still alive too. I had a notion to kill him once, sometimes I wish I had.


OEC

[OliX]

...punishment for murder to kill another one, from your closer family (in a games on luck style)

[Cspine_ae]

the thought of a convicted murderur being burried or cremated pleases me though i don't believe it's neccesary to kill them first!