Feel free to comment.

[Camby Savelle]

As usual I am working a 12 hour nightshift. (they love to give me overtime & only rumor about days off) & like usual my mind is drifting on about random stuff. Then I start to think, people that classify themselfs punk are very proud of being so. Yet when someone is goth (or atleast considered goth by their peers) they denie it til the death. I think part of this aspect is at the fualt that there is no common explanation of what goth actualy is. History tells us of the first "goths" litature tells us of gothic style, & music has classified & misclassified itself as the gothic sound. BUT what exactly is goth? Well after spending far too much time of mindlessly pondering the answer I have came up with this. "One who finds and or expresses the beauty of something in a darker light" (something could very well be ones self)

opinions?

(& like forrest stated elswhere on this board, there is no absolute or nothing criteria)

[morbid_lady]

hmm..one who finds and or expresses the beauty of something in a darker light.

i like that.

[the_plague]

the earliest use of the word i know of is actually from the bible. gol-gotha is the place of the skull where christ was crucified. thus the skull and crossbones are one of the oldest christian symbols. it is also an icon of The Plague.

[Amelia G]

How would that definition differentiate goth from noir?

PS I always felt gothic was a well-dressed spooky subset of punk. I don't really identify as anything specific, other than Blue Blood, but I am punk before I am gothic, but I definitely don't identify as just punk and diverge from what might be considered hardline punk views on many points.

[cautious lip]

I can remember being beat up for being "punk" in the 80's. I always treated the goths as I would like to be treated, and I still do. I have always liked the dark side of things and most of my punk friends that I had growing up all got on really well. It was all about expressing yourself and being artistic, and just doing your own thing. I hate how some people are so snobby these days. I am 31 and if I go to a Goth club here in Cincinnati, nobody hardly talks to anyone outside of their particular clique. It saddens me a great deal because I consider goth to be a branch of punk (I hope that makes sense), so basically we are all part of the same family tree. If anyone from Cincinnati is on these boards, by all means PM me. Lets not be those people that let age and taste act as a barrier against befriending someone. I never expect the younger people to listen to the exact music that I listen to because it is a new time, I like to learn of the new just as I like to share my tastes. I am rambling, but I hope I make sense

[Camby Savelle]

I'm in Cincinnati right now, certianly not native but deffinatly currently located. It's easy to see (from my experince here that there is alot wrong with the way Cincinnati operates, espeshily socialy) I work, & I also have a girlfriend, so my free time is very limited. I am most willingly up for meeting new people & having a good time though.

[One Eyed Cat]

Gothic is a lot of things really. A style of architecture, a genre of literature, a subset of punk going back to the late 70s, simply a word and aesthetic that some identify with. I grew up in the punk and gothic scenes of the Bay Area. I do not identify myself as either, but I do not deny what my influences are. My viewpoints and style do not *conform* to those propagated on either of these scenes. I am simply on my own path. Once again, I find it converging with a given point in my own life. It is actually impossible to turn your back on this or any aspect of your life. You have to work thru every archetype you accept as part of your own path. I believe that people will sometimes take up an archetype unwittingly. I do not believe in an all or nothing dichotomy ... I do not believe in it as an identity. I do believe that when you take up an archetype, you take it up in its entirety. It will, in part, color your journey thru life.


OEC

[cautious lip]

Good call OneEyedCat. When I was younger, I admit to being into image. Now that I am older, I feel it is most important to be comfortable with yourself, disregard labels, and just find what makes us happy. Now, I just "like what I like" which has made life easier.
Also, I like people for who they are, not what they wear or listen to. I enjoy talking to people younger than me, because I feel i can learn from them just as they may learn a bit about me and my taste (or lack of )

[suicidal_tendencies]

honestly, to me gothic isnt really something you ARE. its more or less something you feel. its dark and mysterious. you are what you feel, and most of the time, myself and all the people i know. you are the way you feel. the goths i know, fell just that way. dark and mysterious. but thats just opinion

[One Eyed Cat]

Good call OneEyedCat. When I was younger, I admit to being into image. Now that I am older, I feel it is most important to be comfortable with yourself, disregard labels, and just find what makes us happy. Now, I just "like what I like" which has made life easier.
Also, I like people for who they are, not what they wear or listen to. I enjoy talking to people younger than me, because I feel i can learn from them just as they may learn a bit about me and my taste (or lack of )

Cheers to my fellow traveler Check out the cheesy thread for bad taste haha. Have a Great New Year.

OEC

[CorporateGoth]

Gothic is a lot of things really. A style of architecture, a genre of literature, a subset of punk going back to the late 70s, simply a word and aesthetic that some identify with. I grew up in the punk and gothic scenes of the Bay Area. I do not identify myself as either, but I do not deny what my influences are. My viewpoints and style do not *conform* to those propagated on either of these scenes. I am simply on my own path.

OEC

Very well said!!

To me, Goth is about the mood given off by the architecture, literature, visual arts from the Gothic "school". Something dark and slightly creepy.. For some reason I've always felt very comfortable in those type environments. The few times I've been to a "goth" club, I felt like I belonged there, but didn't fit in with the other people there. I guess its cause I'd show up in my jeans and a Cannibal Corpse Tee Shirt just like I'd wear anywhere else ( course I guess that's like wearing shorts and a tank top to a 5 star resturaunt ). Personally, I dont do the makeup and ornate outfits. I dont mind a bit that they do, but they seem to mind that I dont. I'd just go to soak up the atmosphere and enjoy the music. I dont feel the need to "out-goth" the next guy (or next girl, or next guy/girl). I guess I dont really consider mysely "goth" as much as I consider myself someone who appreciates goth.

[LrdSatanas]

I like the definition of goth in your aspect. By that definition I'm definitly goth. I wouldn;t say goth is a subset of punk tho. Punk is Fuck athority. Goth is Im dark and i show it. 2 completely different things in my eyes.

[Camby Savelle]

How would that definition differentiate goth from noir?

Amelia I would love to offer a worth while reply, but honestly I am not too familiar with what you mean by "noir" Noir is a film genre to me & when I looked it up it just said "suggestive of crime or violence" So I don't think that is what you meant. I apologize, perhaps you can expand on what you mean by noir?

[postcoital]

People tend to classify my as 'punk' which I don't really like. There's some expression in german, 'Zecke', which means some crust punk who's spending their days living of other people. Zecke is a common word for Punk over here, so I get called Zecke alot. Which is, considering the facts, not true. That pisses me off.
I wear alot of black, along with some siouxsie T-Shirts, etc, so some people call me goth. I don't like being called goth because really I'm not.
What was the topic again?
Oh right, I totally see people not noticing the difference, for several reasons. TV. their friends. stuff. like. I just stopped listening to people, I'm doing whatever I want for quite a while now, caught me in alot of trouble, but at least I can spit into the faces of some faggy morons who think they're so punk and just because I don't wear an anarchy A around my neck, they're so much better than me. I love berlin