who is the epitome of *Class*?

[CarnalxKiss]

elegance.....grace...class...that timeless kind of beauty that doesn't and never did need paint or adornments...who do you think of when you think of this?..

For me...Grace Kelly, Catherine Denueve (sp?), Isabella Rossilini and more modern....Catherine Zeta Jones...YUM

[BrightStar]

E L V E S ! **

[KilLAtomiK]

i am

[killerkat]

Humpry Bogart ......come on he was class.........



ohh yea, and Herman Muster.........yea............haha.....

[KilLAtomiK]

seriously tho i alway thought clark gable was the classyest guy ever i wish i was like him

[Amelia G]

Pet peeve: I loathe the word class with all its implications of inescapable caste system and lack of free will or self-determination.

[CarnalxKiss]

Pet peeve: I loathe the word class with all its implications of inescapable caste system and lack of free will or self-determination.

lets replace it then since it bothers you...and stick with...*elegance* it was what i meant anyways..

[Amelia G]

lets replace it then since it bothers you...and stick with...*elegance* it was what i meant anyways..

Elegance sounds just ducky to me

Cary Grant.

[Kidthorazine]

David Bowie

[memorydream]

Oscar Wilde, no question, as far as a gentleman (or lady) goes.

[Morning Glory]

Pet peeve: I loathe the word class with all its implications of inescapable caste system and lack of free will or self-determination.

I love you.

"What's that called when a guy is gay for a girl? Oh yeah, 'straight'."
-Homer Simpson

[One Eyed Cat]

Francis Albert Sinatra

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

No wait,



Yulia Tymoshenko!

OEC

[memorydream]

Pet peeve: I loathe the word class with all its implications of inescapable caste system and lack of free will or self-determination.

Isn't the act of wanting to change one's physical appearence, by way of surgery and medical "enchancements" a journey to greater acceptance and ego gratification, an attempt to enter that caste system, overrun freewill and let the looks of others overcome one's own self-determination....

...or?

[hewhoisagod]

Audrey Hepburn hands down.

[One Eyed Cat]

Pet peeve: I loathe the word class with all its implications of inescapable caste system and lack of free will or self-determination.

You're associating the word with its social-political meaning. Class as a system. It may just refer to personal grace. I know you know this, but still If the grandson of Italian immigrants in Hoboken, NJ (Sinatra) or the daughter of peasants in Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine(Tymoshenko) can have it, has the word not been reclaimed?

OEC

[Amelia G]

Isn't the act of wanting to change one's physical appearence, by way of surgery and medical "enchancements" a journey to greater acceptance and ego gratification, an attempt to enter that caste system, overrun freewill and let the looks of others overcome one's own self-determination....

...or?

The concept of being able to make that journey is at the root of the American theory of the classless society and the self-made man.

[memorydream]

The concept of being able to make that journey is at the root of the American theory of the classless society and the self-made man.

Yes, yes it is. But, that's sort of a poltician response, isn't it?

"We must make the determination of who we are, what we must be and why we have chosen this course."

A statement that has nothing practical in it, is just talking to hear oneself speak.

Of course, I responded, so I must of listened. You think?

[Amelia G]

Yes, yes it is. But, that's sort of a poltician response, isn't it?

"We must make the determination of who we are, what we must be and why we have chosen this course."

A statement that has nothing practical in it, is just talking to hear oneself speak.

Of course, I responded, so I must of listened. You think?

Uhm, what is unclear about what I said? The concept of class is that we are born to it, live with, and pass it on to our children. Class is generally immovable, inflexible, and inpenetrable. Oh sure, the occasional individual can sleep their way into a different class, but I like a merit-based system. To me, the most basic appeal of the counterculture was rejection of the notion of class. CarnalxKiss was talking more about elegance than class and got what I was saying. I don't disapprove of body modifications, but I don't think that determining one's physical appearance is at odds with the concept of free will.

Was your point was that people who get body mods may do so to improve their status, so a culture which accepts beauty is not 100% egalitarian? If so, I believe in merit. The biggest problem with a caste system is that the undeserving inherit and pass on status. In a more merit-based system, we have personal impact on our own final situation.

[memorydream]

Uhm, what is unclear about what I said? The concept of class is that we are born to it, live with, and pass it on to our children. Class is generally immovable, inflexible, and inpenetrable. Oh sure, the occasional individual can sleep their way into a different class, but I like a merit-based system. To me, the most basic appeal of the counterculture was rejection of the notion of class. CarnalxKiss was talking more about elegance than class and got what I was saying. I don't disapprove of body modifications, but I don't think that determining one's physical appearance is at odds with the concept of free will.

Was your point was that people who get body mods may do so to improve their status, so a culture which accepts beauty is not 100% egalitarian? If so, I believe in merit. The biggest problem with a caste system is that the undeserving inherit and pass on status. In a more merit-based system, we have personal impact on our own final situation.

I guess I just don't buy the concept of merit based on physical appearence, is all. Class, to me, springs from personal behaviour. Oscar Wilde dressed well, knew what he had to do in society, but never failed to remark on someone's character, be honest (but clever) in his comments on those in this world and though challenged, did not shirk away from who he was. Plus, at the end of his life, after leaving very hard labor in a prison setting, he stated, to the merit of his soul, I'm glad I did what I did.

I myself have had the wonderful experience of hiring people in many working situations where they had to present themselves to the public. My challenge was to hire someone that was responsible, regardless if it was in a restaraunt, a band or even giving my opinion on a model (which I have done a bit on general fashion, fetish and goth photography). "Could they do the work?" I would ask myself as I read their resume. Everything else would work itself out based on my abilities to make a decision. That is the hallmark of egalitariansim, in my opinion and I stand by it.

When I criticize body modification, it is plastic surgery, exclusively and only. I realize it is the reality of making money in some entertainment industries, I don't like it and I have given my opinion to others on the money making power based on appearence. We've discussed this before, along with a few other members, which have left these boards as a result of such brazen selfishness and disregard for natural beauty and the uniqueness of every person, not some belligerent popularity contest that presumes its own egotistical way.

So, class would definetly have a bearing on saying how you feel, the best way you can and without regret for not saying what you should. Hence, what I say here now.

[Amelia G]

I guess I just don't buy the concept of merit based on physical appearence, is all. Class, to me, springs from personal behaviour. Oscar Wilde dressed well, knew what he had to do in society, but never failed to remark on someone's character, be honest (but clever) in his comments on those in this world and though challenged, did not shirk away from who he was. Plus, at the end of his life, after leaving very hard labor in a prison setting, he stated, to the merit of his soul, I'm glad I did what I did.

I myself have had the wonderful experience of hiring people in many working situations where they had to present themselves to the public. My challenge was to hire someone that was responsible, regardless if it was in a restaraunt, a band or even giving my opinion on a model (which I have done a bit on general fashion, fetish and goth photography). "Could they do the work?" I would ask myself as I read their resume. Everything else would work itself out based on my abilities to make a decision. That is the hallmark of egalitariansim, in my opinion and I stand by it.

When I criticize body modification, it is plastic surgery, exclusively and only. I realize it is the reality of making money in some entertainment industries, I don't like it and I have given my opinion to others on the money making power based on appearence. We've discussed this before, along with a few other members, which have left these boards as a result of such brazen selfishness and disregard for natural beauty and the uniqueness of every person, not some belligerent popularity contest that presumes its own egotistical way.

So, class would definetly have a bearing on saying how you feel, the best way you can and without regret for not saying what you should. Hence, what I say here now.

Uhm, you can private message me if you have a personal concern you would like addressed, but no one has left these boards because members have a variety of opinions on body modification. Part of the point of these boards is for the spirited exchange of varied opinions. I don't personally enjoy boards where everyone spouts the same cookie cutter opinion.

You brought up appearance and I accept that one thing someone can be good at is looking good. Merit springs from personal behavior. Merit is what one has the ability and the character to do. Perhaps ability is partly inherited, but class is moreso. Merit is what someone strives for and class is what is forced upon them.

I think class is an ugly and limiting concept. If you want to start a thread on that topic, please feel free.

If you want to start a thread about body mods, please feel free to do so.

But this is starting to come across as a hijack of CarnalxKiss's thread and I would prefer that you start a new thread about a new topic, rather than derailing an existing one. Thanks.

[ForrestBlack]

I guess I just don't buy the concept of merit based on physical appearence, is all. Class, to me, springs from personal behaviour. Oscar Wilde dressed well, knew what he had to do in society, but never failed to remark on someone's character, be honest (but clever) in his comments on those in this world and though challenged, did not shirk away from who he was. Plus, at the end of his life, after leaving very hard labor in a prison setting, he stated, to the merit of his soul, I'm glad I did what I did...

See, the problem with using only the informal connotation of 'class' as a flexible personal merit based on demeanor rather than what it really means, lofty personal station, is that the informal meaning can always be stripped away. It's like a bone to be handed out by those that are upper class, but can be taken away if you don't tow the line.

class n.
1. A social stratum whose members share certain economic, social, or cultural characteristics: the lower-income classes.
2. Social rank or caste, especially high rank.
3. Informal. Elegance of style, taste, and manner: an actor with class.

I see a lot of people who really lack the first two qualifications giving themselves the 'class' merit badge just for thinking they used the correct fork one day, and that seems wrong to me. Perhaps there should be better terminology for people that can remain civil in heated situations, who remain giving in trying times, who are still open to understanding even when faced with active opposition, who show integrity against the pressures of simple minded groupthink. But, I'm not comfortable with that word being 'class' because someone with pedigree can always come along and take that one away.

edit______________________________

ok, to keep this on topic for the thread, Jimmy Stewart has class.

[CarnalxKiss]

[QUOTE=memorydream]I guess I just don't buy the concept of merit based on physical appearence, is all. Class, to me, springs from personal behaviour.


this is exactly what I meant...not the financial class your in...your character...sometimes my mind moves faster than my fingers and they fight over who will win....heh thanks!

[CarnalxKiss]

Audrey Hepburn hands down.

I agree...both Audrey and Katherine had the classic beauty i envy...as did old screen goddess Veronica Lake..

[memorydream]

You know, I can entertain people, but I'm no statesman or cleric, I admit that. I can't tell people what is, or what is not. I can only base things on what the inside of me rings the bells of truth for.

I actually feel like I'm sort of in the Civil War, when I post here sometimes. Which is not to say I'm going to stop. I just wish I could let it all go and surrender to the way things are in situations like this. But, as much as I try, I keep standing up and going for it.

I apologize if my response (and responses) seem so personal, but it's just how it is, just like I am who I am and others are who they are.

Discussing, arguing or quibbling over technicalities is not my thing; nor do I have time for it. I'm kind of sad for having to say such, but I've got to carry my weight and show my worth to myself somehow.

[MistressJennifer]

elegance.....grace...class...that timeless kind of beauty that doesn't and never did need paint or adornments...who do you think of when you think of this?..

For me...Grace Kelly, Catherine Denueve (sp?), Isabella Rossilini and more modern....Catherine Zeta Jones...YUM

Totally agree! Also Audrey Hepburn and OF COURSE JACKIE O!!!

[Drakken]

I've yet to see anyone alive with class.

[MistressJennifer]

I agree...both Audrey and Katherine had the classic beauty i envy...as did old screen goddess Veronica Lake..

Oh my god! Veronica Lake! My IDOL!!!

[23*]

I've yet to see anyone alive with class.

maureen O'Hara is still alive..

[tinstar]

Intelligence, charm, grace... Not interchangeable terms, certainly, but part of the qualities I suppose we are searching for in this thread.

Catherine Zeta-Jones is my pick. If not in actuality, then at least on-screen and in the face she presents to the world. That said, I would find it tough to swallow that she would be a boorish slug in person.

[tinstar]

Catherine Denueve (sp?)

Oops. Forgot about her... Belle Du Jour and La Parapluies Du Cherbourg... Quite beautiful!

[morbid_lady]

kathrine and audry hepburn