Dirty Rotten Filthy Stinking Rich - Music Industry File Sharing

[23*]

What about aboriginal culture? their society doesn't have any basis for economics

...

they do have have people of varying importance in thier society, like shamans are respected and revered more than the common man. That is because they ackowldge the wisdom of that person, so it's ultimately a ranking based on character, not on an arbirtary number system of worth. In our society even though my life experiences aren't so different from paris hiltons, she's afforded so many more luxuries and privalages and status in our society for no reason, other than because she's rich and subsequently famous.

yeh, i think you explained this better than me.

[killerkat]

What about aboriginal culture? their society doesn't have any basis for economics, they know that the earth provides all thier needs. survive, .

there thought process"the dreaming" has it's own structure, and your right there is no technical economic structure,although they do have a since of "status"(i use th term VERY loosly) as such as Elders and Shaman are held in much greater esteam than others......

but!, they aren't thriving as much as you may think,they are more so Surviving now,australia has the most active expansion in the world right now,i think, and there tearing down the aboriginal culture with it,it's very sad, and i play my didge louder for them, ......


ohh shit,sorry just saw you covered that....must of slipped my eyes...

[Morning Glory]

well yeah that does seem a aspect of most of those type of societies that they are pretty opposed to outsiders in thier community, but given the way that's wotrked out for them, I can't really blame them. and with the worlds monoculture it's kind of hard for people to hold on to thier old ways... sorry kid you can't do that, it's not profitable, better get a job at mcdonalds instead.

[killerkat]

. sorry kid you can't do that, it's not profitable, better get a job at mcdonalds instead.

what?...

[23*]

i think my point was that so long as everyone is contributing to best of their ability they are all equal and deserve no less or no more money tokens regardless of what job they are doing.
Or perhaps a graded scheme whereby people in 'higher' positions are only allowed a certain percent more than those in 'lower' positions.

The people who are exceptionally good at their jobs will receive additional benefits such as status (where staus actually means something) and hopefully a feeling of well-being from doing a job well done.

This is why i dont believe anybody really deserves to be filthy rich.

[Morning Glory]

nothin

[karyn]

i think my point was that so long as everyone is contributing to best of their ability they are all equal and deserve no less or no more money tokens regardless of what job they are doing.
Or perhaps a graded scheme whereby people in 'higher' positions are only allowed a certain percent more than those in 'lower' positions.

The people who are exceptionally good at their jobs will receive additional benefits such as status (where staus actually means something) and hopefully a feeling of well-being from doing a job well done.

This is why i dont believe anybody really deserves to be filthy rich.

your mommy and daddy pay every single one of your bills, don't they

[ForrestBlack]

Quite frankly Ive been to the APARTMENT of a band member whos band has 14 platinum albums. Their apartment is half the size of ours. He lives meagerly, all I noticed was a small kitchen with dishes and a tv and stereo. A few old couches, etc. These people work HARD for their money, and anyone who says they dont needs to be shot. They earn EVERY penny. Does anyone think of the fact of how much money they SPEND to get where they are at? My band is already looking at 20,000 and thats small time. Its 5,000 just to get on a tour with a popular band, then you have expenses on the road. You have to pay distributing, booking, lawyers, labels, managers, etc. We figured out that if we sold CDs at 15 a piece, the band would only make about 10 from that, now divide that by five. Each band member makes only 2 bucks per CD! Not to mention the cost of merchandise, etc. If we hit the road right now, each band member would make 5 bucks a night profit, playing 5 shows a week. And that has to go right back into food and gas to get to the next place. Bands defineately PAY their dues. Plus if a labels signs you and says heres 50,000 bucks to get the next record done, band have to pay that BACK to the label.

Its sad when people complain about the cost of CDs. They steal from these people who are working very hard and HONEST to be successful.

Filthy rich to me is the person who is successful who got that way from being dishonest.

I totally agree with that.

[Amelia G]

i think my point was that so long as everyone is contributing to best of their ability they are all equal and deserve no less or no more money tokens regardless of what job they are doing.
Or perhaps a graded scheme whereby people in 'higher' positions are only allowed a certain percent more than those in 'lower' positions.

The people who are exceptionally good at their jobs will receive additional benefits such as status (where staus actually means something) and hopefully a feeling of well-being from doing a job well done.

This is why i dont believe anybody really deserves to be filthy rich.

Some cultures value one attribute and some value another, but they are all concerned with status. I'm not going to deconstruct why aborigines in Australia are just as status-concious as stockbrokers in Manhattan because it has already been covered. There are simply different attributes which convey status.

Also, simple fact: Everyone does not give to the best of their ability. Anyone who has ever worked on a team to accomplish anything knows that some people just do not contribute to the best of their ability. They could, but they do not.

Sometimes lazy people who contribute nothing will be really nasty to the hard workers on their team in order to maintain their own status. In order to continue to exist, a society must have some methodology for giving status to people who contribute more because there will be people who contribute less who want to decrease the status of those who work harder than they do.

Please define the expression "filthy rich" if you are going to use it. I think we all need to understand our terms to be discussing the same thing.

[Tequila Zaire]

Quite frankly Ive been to the APARTMENT of a band member whos band has 14 platinum albums. Their apartment is half the size of ours. He lives meagerly, all I noticed was a small kitchen with dishes and a tv and stereo. A few old couches, etc. These people work HARD for their money, and anyone who says they dont needs to be shot. They earn EVERY penny. Does anyone think of the fact of how much money they SPEND to get where they are at? My band is already looking at 20,000 and thats small time. Its 5,000 just to get on a tour with a popular band, then you have expenses on the road. You have to pay distributing, booking, lawyers, labels, managers, etc. We figured out that if we sold CDs at 15 a piece, the band would only make about 10 from that, now divide that by five. Each band member makes only 2 bucks per CD! Not to mention the cost of merchandise, etc. If we hit the road right now, each band member would make 5 bucks a night profit, playing 5 shows a week. And that has to go right back into food and gas to get to the next place. Bands defineately PAY their dues. Plus if a labels signs you and says heres 50,000 bucks to get the next record done, band have to pay that BACK to the label.

Its sad when people complain about the cost of CDs. They steal from these people who are working very hard and HONEST to be successful.

Filthy rich to me is the person who is successful who got that way from being dishonest.

That's a bit short sighted...if he was in a band with 14 platinum albums...what the fuck did he do with his cut? I don't buy into the "Their rich so lets rob em" angle some here do but should I really bfeel bad if a person didn't save or invest their money wisely?

The guy may work hard but if you don't protect what you work hard for in terms of what you get DIRECTLY...who's to blame really? P2P programs are not magically taking away all the money in the Music Industry...if it was so weak that a PROGRAM could kill it then maybe it NEEDS to die. Statisticly P2P file sharing just isn't that powerful...most stuff peopel download is stuff they never would have bought or like me...use it as a radio...listen, burn, forget...move on. It's like when people use to record hit singles off the radio before DJ's started to talk before and at the end of most songs...

Ultimately it's a losing battle for the music industry to kill off P2P...it's simply used for TOO much...more is traded on those networks than just music these days and more and more people have migrated to BitTorrent...

If they want to kill EVERY program that has a potential to be used illegally then they are fucked...CD prices ARE too high...it's been shown time and time again and the fact so many think that way may be a good indication SOME new format need to be adopted to sell music not force people to buy what is in all truth...old and outdated. CD's were great in the 80's and 90's but in the age of 5.1 DVD's under $10...it's time to move beyond stereo CD's at $15 a pop.

[Amelia G]

That's a bit short sighted...if he was in a band with 14 platinum albums...what the fuck did he do with his cut? I don't buy into the "Their rich so lets rob em" angle some here do but should I really bfeel bad if a person didn't save or invest their money wisely?

The guy may work hard but if you don't protect what you work hard for in terms of what you get DIRECTLY...who's to blame really? P2P programs are not magically taking away all the money in the Music Industry...if it was so weak that a PROGRAM could kill it then maybe it NEEDS to die. Statisticly P2P file sharing just isn't that powerful...most stuff peopel download is stuff they never would have bought or like me...use it as a radio...listen, burn, forget...move on. It's like when people use to record hit singles off the radio before DJ's started to talk before and at the end of most songs...

Ultimately it's a losing battle for the music industry to kill off P2P...it's simply used for TOO much...more is traded on those networks than just music these days and more and more people have migrated to BitTorrent...

If they want to kill EVERY program that has a potential to be used illegally then they are fucked...CD prices ARE too high...it's been shown time and time again and the fact so many think that way may be a good indication SOME new format need to be adopted to sell music not force people to buy what is in all truth...old and outdated. CD's were great in the 80's and 90's but in the age of 5.1 DVD's under $10...it's time to move beyond stereo CD's at $15 a pop.

Off topic, but the BitTorrent creator came to my panel at SXSW and he is this totally cute young guy who seems . . . I don't know, nice and creative and not what I think I would have imagined.

[23*]

your mommy and daddy pay every single one of your bills, don't they

i've worked my ass off in plenty of jobs.

it seems that almost every post you make is either a cheap shot or yet another reminder about how hard your life has been. get over yourself. learn some tact. What do you want, a medal????

[karyn]

i've worked my ass off in plenty of jobs.

it seems that almost every post you make is either a cheap shot or yet another reminder about how hard your life has been. get over yourself. learn some tact. What do you want, a medal????

my point is that you obviously don't work for a living. your posts make it obvious that mommy and daddy support you and you don't support yourself. i may get smacked for saying this but i do not think it is a cheap shot to point out the obvious flaw in what you have to say. you have no idea how hard some people do or do not work because someone else is paying your bills. more power to you if you can get your parents to put you through school but you shouldn't lecture about how much of a concern money should be when money is obviously not something you have to worry about at all.

[23*]

my point is that you obviously don't work for a living. your posts make it obvious that mommy and daddy support you and you don't support yourself. i may get smacked for saying this but i do not think it is a cheap shot to point out the obvious flaw in what you have to say. you have no idea how hard some people do or do not work because someone else is paying your bills. more power to you if you can get your parents to put you through school but you shouldn't lecture about how much of a concern money should be when money is obviously not something you have to worry about at all.

i guess that is something to think about.

[ForrestBlack]

If they want to kill EVERY program that has a potential to be used illegally then they are fucked...

I think music is an interesting battleground for the formation of artist rights in the digital realm though, because people feel music is free. People feel that they still buy albums from artists they appreciate hearing, etc. I think software application and movie pirating on services like bittorrent are a lot more clear cut for some people, so they prefer to argue the music issue instead. It's easier to point to commercial radio and artists struggling for exposure and all those romantic artistic ideals to justify world wide theft.

[the_plague]

being filthy rich means i can have real gold teeth instead of fakes.

[Amelia G]

being filthy rich means i can have real gold teeth instead of fakes.

I need to go to the dentist, but I fear the dentist and can't afford it anyway

[cheinara wraithwalker]

Well, I remember a quote from Paris Hilton that went something like this...

"I think clothes should be free, like water!"

Water isn't free, you dumb-ass trick.

When you're so rich that you don't know what is free and what isn't...

[CPRB]

Filthy rich ehhhh well as fgor music and art that's not the question...filthy rich is when youcan be the drummer of blink 182 and go to exotic car dealer ship and not shit you "punkrock pants" at the price of of Maibach motor car worth 700, 000 dollars...

[devil13]

O.D.B. picking up his welfare check on MTV now thats filthy rich

[OliX]

vinyl's will rule the world realy soon... most of labels I listen to are only released on vinyls

war profiters are filthy rich... fithy... and rich :/

[Jax]

That's a bit short sighted...if he was in a band with 14 platinum albums...what the fuck did he do with his cut? I don't buy into the "Their rich so lets rob em" angle some here do but should I really bfeel bad if a person didn't save or invest their money wisely?

The guy may work hard but if you don't protect what you work hard for in terms of what you get DIRECTLY...who's to blame really? P2P programs are not magically taking away all the money in the Music Industry...if it was so weak that a PROGRAM could kill it then maybe it NEEDS to die. Statisticly P2P file sharing just isn't that powerful...most stuff peopel download is stuff they never would have bought or like me...use it as a radio...listen, burn, forget...move on. It's like when people use to record hit singles off the radio before DJ's started to talk before and at the end of most songs...

Ultimately it's a losing battle for the music industry to kill off P2P...it's simply used for TOO much...more is traded on those networks than just music these days and more and more people have migrated to BitTorrent...

If they want to kill EVERY program that has a potential to be used illegally then they are fucked...CD prices ARE too high...it's been shown time and time again and the fact so many think that way may be a good indication SOME new format need to be adopted to sell music not force people to buy what is in all truth...old and outdated. CD's were great in the 80's and 90's but in the age of 5.1 DVD's under $10...it's time to move beyond stereo CD's at $15 a pop.

I wont go into this persons personal life. And so what if s/he doesnt invest the money or stash it away? S/he earned the right to spend it how they choose.

[Tequila Zaire]

I wont go into this persons personal life. And so what if s/he doesnt invest the money or stash it away? S/he earned the right to spend it how they choose.

That's all well and good and I agree...but P2P programs and file sharing are not to blame then.

Hard work is one thing...programs being abused is another.

[ForrestBlack]

That's all well and good and I agree...but P2P programs and file sharing are not to blame then.

Hard work is one thing...programs being abused is another.

But the public perception that fame equals unlimited wealth should be called into question. People claim that the rich deserve to be robbed, for if they are rich, they enjoy too much. File sharing is the use of a commodity without reciprocal value to the producer of that commodity. It is, by it's nature, eliminating the exchange of value between the appropriate parties.

[Morning Glory]

vinyl's will rule the world realy soon... most of labels I listen to are only released on vinyls

war profiters are filthy rich... fithy... and rich :/

you know that vinyl is made from gasoline right?

[Morning Glory]

I beg to differ, since it's caleld file sharing, not file stealing. If I pay for that cd and then make a copy for all my freinds, fuck the artist in question, at least they got my 15 bucks. I could have just as easily actually stolen the cd, or would that be preferable to file swapping?

[ForrestBlack]

I beg to differ, since it's caleld file sharing, not file stealing. If I pay for that cd and then make a copy for all my freinds, fuck the artist in question, at least they got my 15 bucks. I could have just as easily actually stolen the cd, or would that be preferable to file swapping?

Stolen CDs actually get paid for by the stores, so the artist doesn't lose. Joyriding isn't called ride sharing, but it just as easily could.

[Morning Glory]

wait, i thought joyriding was when people drove around with no specific purpose of destination, but did it just for the fun of it, hence the Joy. driving with mutliple people is called carpooling.

[CarnalxKiss]

well the one thing i wish to say on the other side of the P2P coin is this..

alot (not all) but alot of today's musicians are putting out crap. for 15 bucks you get 1 maybe 2 good songs.. Id much rather pay a buck for the song i like then have to pay 15 for mostly shit..
Also... there are actually bands i have downlaoded a few songs of...and heard them....fell in love and then went to buy alot of their shit...because of P2P , so it isnt all bad..

to me, filthy rich is having more than you and your family will need for living well...(everyone should be entitled to live well) having so much excess and not giving to charity or research is filthy to me..

[Morning Glory]

I like that definition.

[karyn]

wait, i thought joyriding was when people drove around with no specific purpose of destination, but did it just for the fun of it, hence the Joy. driving with mutliple people is called carpooling.

from dictionary

Main Entry: joy·rid·ing
Function: noun
: the unauthorized and esp. reckless taking and driving of another's vehicle for a period of time —joy·ride noun

[Morning Glory]

isn't that called getting your car stolen?

[karyn]

isn't that called getting your car stolen?

joyriding is stealing. it is just stealing for a few hours of fun rather than for profit.

[devil13]

this is for Jax. you said you are in a band, right? dont take this the wrong way but, there are plenty of people who have never heard of you and your band. I dont know what you guys sound like or anything but, dont you think its a good thing for people to hear your band and your music even if it was on a file share site? I mean the more you get heard the more money you will make in the long run. look at bands like Fugazi they do everything themselvs and they are no whare close to being rich but, do you really think they care about file share so long as people are listing to their music and their message? I posted a question on another thread asking why did musicians get into music in the first place, money or the love of music? to share your love of music with people or make a profit? because as you and I know there is hardly any profit for most punk, goth, etc, etc, etc type of bands. so wouldnt you think that people file sharing your music be a good thing? and why would you want to limit your bad to local shows and tours when you could get your music heard by a larger audience over the internet. I dont mean to really dirict this just at you Jax its just that you said you where in a band and how much it cost the band but that is the life of a musician.
Jimmy Hendrix didnt die a millionare and he played several free shows just so people could hear him and Jello Biafra didnt like what the major lables where doing so he started his own and I wouldnt say hes rich either.

My band is already looking at 20,000 and thats small time. Its 5,000 just to get on a tour with a popular band, then you have expenses on the road. You have to pay distributing, booking, lawyers, labels, managers, etc. We figured out that if we sold CDs at 15 a piece, the band would only make about 10 from that, now divide that by five. Each band member makes only 2 bucks per CD! Not to mention the cost of merchandise, etc. If we hit the road right now, each band member would make 5 bucks a night profit, playing 5 shows a week. And that has to go right back into food and gas to get to the next place. Bands defineately PAY their dues. Plus if a labels signs you and says heres 50,000 bucks to get the next record done, band have to pay that BACK to the label.
Its sad when people complain about the cost of CDs. They steal from these people who are working very hard and HONEST to be successful

I wouldnt look at it as stealling if I where you, I would say that its one hell of a way to promote yourself/band.

[karyn]

this is for Jax. you said you are in a band, right? dont take this the wrong way but, there are plenty of people who have never heard of you and your band. I dont know what you guys sound like or anything but, dont you think its a good thing for people to hear your band and your music even if it was on a file share site? I mean the more you get heard the more money you will make in the long run. look at bands like Fugazi they do everything themselvs and they are no whare close to being rich but, do you really think they care about file share so long as people are listing to their music and their message? I posted a question on another thread asking why did musicians get into music in the first place, money or the love of music? to share your love of music with people or make a profit? because as you and I know there is hardly any profit for most punk, goth, etc, etc, etc type of bands. so wouldnt you think that people file sharing your music be a good thing? and why would you want to limit your bad to local shows and tours when you could get your music heard by a larger audience over the internet. I dont mean to really dirict this just at you Jax its just that you said you where in a band and how much it cost the band but that is the life of a musician.
Jimmy Hendrix didnt die a millionare and he played several free shows just so people could hear him and Jello Biafra didnt like what the major lables where doing so he started his own and I wouldnt say hes rich either.
I wouldnt look at it as stealling if I where you, I would say that its one hell of a way to promote yourself/band.

i did not know that fugazi's and jello's accountant posted here. how much money do they have?

if you say that giving away things for free gives you more money in the long run then shouldn't fugazi and jello be richer than slutney spears?

you clearly have no idea how many people are employed just managing the hendrix estate.

if Jax decides to promote her band with a free sample as she has done on this boards before that is fine.

[Wickedanima]

It is my impression that the music industry is not doing too well as an overall industry these days. It feels like the rock and roll party is over and all the fun people have gone home. I agree with her that most people in bands today are so greedy that it borders on psychosis.

That said, bre.star stated that her objection to bands being upset about their music being stolen is that they are filthy rich.

What constitutes filthy rich?

On the non-filthy rich issue....I think that the music industry is chasing after the silly monkey when they attack the music downloads. The problem, like with any corporation, is that their money is going to CEOs and Boards. To publicists, over-inflated parties, surgery, make-overs, and the like.

Now. To me filthy rich is someone who rolls over in the morning, and picks up the phone to see how much money they made today. Someone with so much money that they never, never could touch the Principle if they tried.....

[devil13]

i did not know that fugazi's and jello's accountant posted here. how much money do they have?

if you say that giving away things for free gives you more money in the long run then shouldn't fugazi and jello be richer than slutney spears?

you clearly have no idea how many people are employed just managing the hendrix estate.

if Jax decides to promote her band with a free sample as she has done on this boards before that is fine.

ok thats a lil harsh.like I said I didnt want it to come off like I was being an ass or anything. really I would like to know her thoughts on what I said. as far as the Hendrix estate???? I have no Idea what you where trying to say there I mean hes dead I was talking about when he was alive. all the great bands from the 60s didnt get paid millions for playing woodstock or plying anywhare in San Francisco. as far as Fugazi if you know anything about them, they do run everything themseves and they really dont make millions either. Jello probablly has the most money becase of his own record label and all the law suits hes won but I still wouldnt call him a millionare though. if you knew anything about those bands you would know Im right. and the Britney comment was a lil over the top. come on, back in the early 80s it was no diferent than what Jax said about going on tour today they where lucky to make a few bucks. like I said shouldnt be about the music not the money?

[karyn]

ok thats a lil harsh.like I said I didnt want it to come off like I was being an ass or anything. really I would like to know her thoughts on what I said. as far as the Hendrix estate???? I have no Idea what you where trying to say there I mean hes dead I was talking about when he was alive. all the great bands from the 60s didnt get paid millions for playing woodstock or plying anywhare in San Francisco. as far as Fugazi if you know anything about them, they do run everything themseves and they really dont make millions either. Jello probablly has the most money becase of his own record label and all the law suits hes won but I still wouldnt call him a millionare though. if you knew anything about those bands you would know Im right. and the Britney comment was a lil over the top. come on, back in the early 80s it was no diferent than what Jax said about going on tour today they where lucky to make a few bucks. like I said shouldnt be about the music not the money?

earlier you said 'the more you get heard the more money you will make in the long run' and said that musicians should play lots of free shows and by your reasoning then the musicians who did that should be the richest but they are not.

the hendrix estate is a big dollar industry unto itself

how do you know how much fugazi makes from dischord?

how do you know whether jello is a millionaire?

i think the dead kennedys and fugazi deserve to be millionaires for their accomplishments but i do not know if they are and i do not believe you know either. i know the answer on the hendrix estate and you do no so it is difficult to believe you know any actual facts.

[Jax]

this is for Jax. you said you are in a band, right? dont take this the wrong way but, there are plenty of people who have never heard of you and your band. I dont know what you guys sound like or anything but, dont you think its a good thing for people to hear your band and your music even if it was on a file share site? I mean the more you get heard the more money you will make in the long run. look at bands like Fugazi they do everything themselvs and they are no whare close to being rich but, do you really think they care about file share so long as people are listing to their music and their message? I posted a question on another thread asking why did musicians get into music in the first place, money or the love of music? to share your love of music with people or make a profit? because as you and I know there is hardly any profit for most punk, goth, etc, etc, etc type of bands. so wouldnt you think that people file sharing your music be a good thing? and why would you want to limit your bad to local shows and tours when you could get your music heard by a larger audience over the internet. I dont mean to really dirict this just at you Jax its just that you said you where in a band and how much it cost the band but that is the life of a musician.
Jimmy Hendrix didnt die a millionare and he played several free shows just so people could hear him and Jello Biafra didnt like what the major lables where doing so he started his own and I wouldnt say hes rich either.
I wouldnt look at it as stealling if I where you, I would say that its one hell of a way to promote yourself/band.

Youre right, noone has heard of us. We have no record out, and are still working on writing. But we have always promoted to check out our music, give free downloads, etc. Once we are putting 50,000 in the band, thats different. We should have the CHOICE to let people access our music for free. We put some of our songs up, and if you like them great, if you dont great. Im in it for the money, plain and simple. Music is not my life. If I dont start making money before my deadline, even with the people we are working with, Im done with it. I have my own business plan that WILL be successful, but am trying the music thing since I have a voice. We are not a punk/goth/whatever band. We are commercial, and working with one of the biggest names in music today. Sure, we can do everything on our own. We have the money to do it. Do we want to? HELL no. Im a sellout. If I have a talent, I want to make money with it. Its no different than having any other job. we wouldnt do all this to stay local, wed buy onto bigger acts. Its all in the business. You want to make it, 9 times out of 10 you have to have money and someone you know in the industry. We have both. We want to make money. I still do not like file sharing, I think its stealing.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Now I am going to sound like an ass but try this one out anyway.

Shouldn't it be about the plumbing and not about the money?

Ok, that one is a bit silly, but despite the fact that art should be about the art money is, by nessecity, a factor. The more money you make with your music, the more time can be spent workin on the music and less say, holding down a second job. Also, good music is hard work, and if it aint good music then why are you stealing it? Some musicians want to make money so they can buy overpriced cars and wave there dicks around about it, but some want to make the money so they can give more to charity, or so they can buy the guitar they have dreamed of, or so they can support the heroin habit or whatever. I can't justify stealing from the rich soley based on the fact that they are rich or that it should just be about the art. Besides, I seriously doubt people run credit checks on musicians before they copy music. Defining filthy rich seems to run along the lines of, they have more money than I think they should or have done less than I think they should have to deserve it.

However, there is something you have to look at with this sentiment. If the spokerocker for not pirating music was just in the news for buying a multi million dollar home, they are probably not going to generate a lot of sympathy. I don't think it is right to copy music rather than buying it for a number of reasons, but every time Metallica went off about how these people were stealing food from thier mouths, it hit me wrong. Hell it made me want to pirate there music and sell it in TJ, not because I thought they were wrong, just cause I thought they were being asses. Music may be work, but it aint diggin ditches. If the record industry wants sympathy, they do need to do some serious work on thier image.