Isn't it shortsighted to hate people who are older or richer?

[Amelia G]

I never understood why some people hate anyone who is richer or older than they are. I mean, how lacking in optimism does a person have to be for that to make sense? How lacking in self-esteem does a person have to be for that to make sense?

Presumably, if all goes well, one is going to make more dough in the future than in the present.

Presumably, if all goes well, one is going to get older. Consider the alternative.

So why do people spout negativity if someone is older or richer than they are?

[Amelia G]

I don't mean to sound like a fucking Boomer hippie as I am most assuredly not one, but it seems like there is too much misguided hate in the world right now. j/k

[Tequila Zaire]

Hating those older than me is foolish since like it or not they DO know better than me in a lot of areas. So I try to give the respect they have earned in THAT sense. However it has to be judged and given out based on what they have done with their lives...lets face it many who are older than us are downright brutal and far more savage than we THINK is humanly possible...and do we really want to repeat that?

You take what you can from those before us and lay focus on the best parts...you can spend far too much time and energy focusing on the bad only fooling yourself into thinking you are learning anything. Learning from mistakes is one thing....learning to only base life from mistakes is quite another.

As far as The Rich goes...that ties into my Class comments in another thread but in the end I hope to be one at some point. Money may not buy you happiness but you can do a lot of things to help you find happiness with it...be it charity, vacations, or a really really fast car with that beauty queen you always wanted to fuck.

[Tequila Zaire]

I don't mean to sound like a fucking Boomer hippie as I am most assuredly not one, but it seems like there is too much misguided hate in the world right now. j/k

I think the hate is dead on...the problem is that what needs to be done is not appreciated or accepted. Hate is only constructive in the end result is beneficial to the majority not the minority...and when I say majority I mean on a WORLD level...Hate after all IS extreme by nature.

Look at genocide...it's the most savage social greed imaginable...one class or race wiping out another for their OWN needs alone. That does not and will not ever benefit the world to do such things. That's misguided hate. Hating those that do such actions IS beneficial since idealy it should STOP such actions for occuring again...

Too bad it only works in theory though.

[Kidthorazine]

I agree with you although i do have a great deal of contempt for theese lazy ass trust fund babies i have a tedency to not like rich people because they think they are better than everyone else because they have money if they worked for it thats great more power to them but i fucking hate theese little brats who think they are better because thier parents are filthy rich and the wont have to work a day of thier lives.

[Amelia G]

Hating those older than me is foolish since like it or not they DO know better than me in a lot of areas. So I try to give the respect they have earned in THAT sense. However it has to be judged and given out based on what they have done with their lives...lets face it many who are older than us are downright brutal and far more savage than we THINK is humanly possible...and do we really want to repeat that?

You take what you can from those before us and lay focus on the best parts...you can spend far too much time and energy focusing on the bad only fooling yourself into thinking you are learning anything. Learning from mistakes is one thing....learning to only base life from mistakes is quite another.

As far as The Rich goes...that ties into my Class comments in another thread but in the end I hope to be one at some point. Money may not buy you happiness but you can do a lot of things to help you find happiness with it...be it charity, vacations, or a really really fast car with that beauty queen you always wanted to fuck.

I think that, in today's world, technology moves so quickly that sometimes those older than we are can have less useful wisdom than they could in prior generations. I don't think it is wrong to sometimes think someone older doesn't know better. Like you said, we may not want to repeat certain things either. But it seems like there are a lot of people who just really hate anyone who is a couple steps farther down the road of life than they are and that totally baffles me.

[Amelia G]

I agree with you although i do have a great deal of contempt for theese lazy ass trust fund babies i have a tedency to not like rich people because they think they are better than everyone else because they have money if they worked for it thats great more power to them but i fucking hate theese little brats who think they are better because thier parents are filthy rich and the wont have to work a day of thier lives.

You know, a lot of people say that when speaking theoretically, but, in practice, it seems like most people actually prefer trust fund babies to people who worked for what they have. If someone throws a party or does something creative and people know where they got the money to do so and how the project was funded, they are a heck of a lot bitchier than if someone with a trust fund throws a party or does something creative and it is invisible where the money came from. It is like some sort of hostility to basic math or something.

[Toe Cutter]

When I think 'older rich people' it makes me think about a bunch of sell-out baby boomers. I don't of course hate all of them but A LOT of them are just judgemental cunts.
(I think OLD people in their 70's are mostly cool. They have seen some crazy shit in their lives)

I don't 'player-hate' on folks with a bunch a cash either. Shit, I wish I was rich. I end up hating 'em for how they spend it and how it makes them act (like cunts).

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

I don't hate people for being richer or older, just for forgeting what it is like to be younger or poorer.

My friends drive me nuts when they say things like, "it didn't used to be like this, people used to have respect, taste, good music, ect." It drives me nuts when people older than me say it especially as I get older. This is mostly because the older I get, the more I realize it is just not true. The young vs old fight is short sighted, but I can see why kids get frustrated. A lot of times when people hate everyone who is older it is usually coupled with statements like "I will never be like that when I am old." Unfortunately it is not true as often as they would like to think.

As far as richer goes, I only hate them as a group or as individuals. Paris Hilton doesn't really do anything that impacts my life in any way. Kenneth Lay on the other hand has impacted my life. On a more local level drive deep into Beverly Hills, then stop. Get out of your car and enjoy the place for a few minutes and you will see where a lot of rich people earn the scorn of the poor as the cops come to move you along. Buy a house an paint it bright blue. Poor people can be just as cntrolling or rude, but usually don't have the power to enforce thier rudeness. It's another case of, when I am rich I won't be like that. Rally cry of rebels everywhere.

So it may seem silly to hate people for being richer and older when I have plans to be richer and older, but it is ok cause I won't be like them when I am richer and older. Really. Now get off my lawn and turn that music down

[devil13]

I never understood why some people hate anyone who is richer or older than they are. I mean, how lacking in optimism does a person have to be for that to make sense? How lacking in self-esteem does a person have to be for that to make sense?

Presumably, if all goes well, one is going to make more dough in the future than in the present.

Presumably, if all goes well, one is going to get older. Consider the alternative.

So why do people spout negativity if someone is older or richer than they are?

I am sometimes guilty of saying I hate the rich but trueth is if someone was to give me a buttload of cah I wouldnt turn it down. I think that its more about the power that the rich have over people than the amount in thier wallet. dont you think?

[Morning Glory]

I think it's shortsided to think that being rich is admirable, or rather to think that everyone wants to be rich and would if they could be. all that does is create inverse hate by implying that it's wrong to be poor, because if they were rich, then they wouldn't have anything against the rich, so the problem isn't really with people not liking the rich, but with people that aren't rich in the first place.

I see a lot of people lately dogging on having contempt for the successfull, but it's entirely hypocritical because when a person steps all over unsucessful people to become sucessful ( which by the very meaning of it they must, because if everyone was on equal footing then there would be no measure of sucess to contrast against unsucess), no one seems to have a problem with it. because there is nothing wrong with being sucessfull. but if those people should feel resentment about it, then they are in the wrong.

I'm not saying anyone should resent anyone else, but this seems like an issue where one side is valid and justified for a behaviour and another one that is a differing oppinion but still practices that very same attitude and behavior is supposedly wrong.

Ps. categorizing people's supposed viewpoints by basing it on thier finanical worth is only encouraging classism and further creating conflicts among people by unequal division.

[killerkat]

u love older people,almost all of them have a knowledge that is always welcome ...

i used to talk to my granfather for hours about when he went to Korea,ect,ect

and i've travel most of the south east,with two 60-70 year olds,just going to swapmeets,and it was one of the most informative,fun trips i've been on...

[Amelia G]

I think it's shortsided to think that being rich is admirable, or rather to think that everyone wants to be rich and would if they could be. all that does is create inverse hate by implying that it's wrong to be poor, because if they were rich, then they wouldn't have anything against the rich, so the problem isn't really with people not liking the rich, but with people that aren't rich in the first place.

I see a lot of people lately dogging on having contempt for the successfull, but it's entirely hypocritical because when a person steps all over unsucessful people to become sucessful ( which by the very meaning of it they must, because if everyone was on equal footing then there would be no measure of sucess to contrast against unsucess), no one seems to have a problem with it. because there is nothing wrong with being sucessfull. but if those people should feel resentment about it, then they are in the wrong.

I'm not saying anyone should resent anyone else, but this seems like an issue where one side is valid and justified for a behaviour and another one that is a differing oppinion but still practices that very same attitude and behavior is supposedly wrong.

Okay, this is just me and I'm sure you are right that there are people who think being rich is admirable, but it seems to me that having more dough is always desirable. What a person wants or decides to spend it on is a totally different issue, but no matter what an individual's values are, they should be able to achieve what they view as good more and better with more resources.

Sometimes people cause one another pain, but there is not a reason why someone needs to cause more pain than average to be successful. In my experience, most of the unkindest people I have ever met are unsuccessful.

[Morning Glory]

I agree with the later statement. but to the first one I would disagree, my measure of success and doing what I want to is completely independant from resources or values, however, I can't do what I want to because I live in a world where everyone is obsessed with these things and they impose them on me, which is unfair, and is theft as far as I'm concerned.

[killerkat]

I agree with the later statement. but to the first one I would disagree, by measure of success and doing what I want to is completely independant from resources or values, however, I can't do what I want to because I live in a world where everyone is obsessed with these things and they impose them on me, which is unfair, and is theft as far as I'm concerned.

that was VERY true.....

[hewhoisagod]

I don't hate the rich. I just don't like the ones that didn't earn a dime of it. I wouldn't mind having enough money to be comfortable. As for the old, a lot of them are pretty cool, and most have some good stories if you listen.

[TheDeathKnight]

It's mostly an issue of attitude.

Your typical older, wealthy business owner, may have bad impressions of young people, or poor people. Just as many young people, and poor people, have bad impressions of some older rich people. Those bad impressions often make people act like assholes. Or at least acting very prejudiced and uninformed. One of the common things I hear people who have made it say, is that people who are poor need to do this, and do that, and make money, get a job, etc, etc, etc... Not once putting themselves in the other person's shoes. That's why they come off looking like assholes. My mom told me a story that perfectly shows this example. This guy she was seeing, really spoils his kids. Gives them money, etc... His daughter was moving into an apartment, and one of the other tenants did not have a refrigerator. Her comment to her dad: "Don't they have parents?" To her, it's assumed that your parents are obliged to buy you appliances, etc... That girl is in college. Soon she will have a degree, and be someone's boss. Do you think she will understand if on of her employees is late to work, because their car broke down? Hell no. She'd say, "Your parents should buy you a new car... that's no excuse to be late!" That's the kind of attitudes that make people hate rich people. Because they have no clue what it's like to not have things. To not have access to education. To not have access to a car, or to not have parents, etc. I meet people who had no parents around, no help with school, no encouragement, no nothing... So how the hell are those people supposed to figure out how to be successful? But it goes both ways. Poor people and people who do not have all those advantages, need to learn how to get what they need. It may take a long time, but it's possible. You can work, and save, and get a car, and get a better job. You can keep saving, and save money to go back to school, and get a degree. Then you can keep looking for a good job until you get one that pays well. And you can learn to kiss ass, or do whatever you need to do to get ahead. Maybe it means going back to school *again*. It takes a lot of work to get to be successful, if you don't have someone helping you, and paying for stuff. But it can be done. But it is not easy. It's mostly left up to the poor people to do all the struggling, while the rich people generally have it easy. They have a lot more advantages. Although spoiled brats also have an "awakening" when they get in the real world, and people will not cater to them. They expect to be just as spoiled at work, as they were growing up, and they do not handle it well when people do not give them everything they expect. Those people tend to end up bitter and negative as well. Which of course does not make them any nicer to deal with in the workplace... Those are the people who's parents told them they would be making good money with their degree, but then they can't get a job, and end up having to take a low-level position. Those people are usually very bitter. Unable to see that they still had a free ride up to that point, and they will never have to struggle to get a job, save money, and pay for their own education, etc... I think people in general need to learn to be able to understand other people. Understand that not everyone had the same kind of life that you did. The biggest skill I think people can learn, to be successful, is to learn what successful people did, and then find a way to follow in their footsteps. And I'm not talking about following in the footsteps of people who had help. Follow in the footsteps of people who paved their own road to success, on their own... But when you get to the top, don't forget that it's not easy for people to get there. Life is not easy. Nor fun.

[Amelia G]

"Your parents should buy you a new car... that's no excuse to be late!"

[grebo]

the boomers who own the businesses are making the younger generations work for minimum wage so they can have more money for their upcoming retirement, but leaving us with fuck all when we are old.

i read a story once where florida becomes a no go zone for people under 60 because there are gangs of oldies wandering round all hopped up on viagra and various other life extending drugs.

[tinstar]

i read a story once where florida becomes a no go zone for people under 60 because there are gangs of oldies wandering round all hopped up on viagra and various other life extending drugs.

Hrm... Sounds like something from a Burroughs or JG Ballard novel.

[tinstar]

the boomers who own the businesses are making the younger generations work for minimum wage so they can have more money for their upcoming retirement, but leaving us with fuck all when we are old.

There are plenty of stupid, poor Boomers. I don't think that you automatically get your "sell out and get rich" card when you hit a certain age.... Of course, maybe I just haven't reached that age yet! Yeehaw... Can't wait until I'm 30... Then I can join the other rich sell-outs...

I dunno... People hate rich people because they have something that everyone wants. Same reason some people hate beautiful people.

Grebo, you sound like you are blaming one group of people for the problems of another group of people. If a person in this country doesn't like his job, he/she can go find another one. He can go to school after work instead of going to the bar or heading down to the "rent-to-own" and picking up that wide-screen TV and leather sofa for ONLY $25/month. He can start a small business instead of impregnating his wife for the 6th freakin' time. The beauty of capitalism... We all have choices.

Anybody ever seen the movie "SLC Punk?"

[tinstar]

It's mostly an issue of attitude.

Your typical older, wealthy business owner, may have bad impressions of young people, or poor people. Just as many young people, and poor people, have bad impressions of some older rich people. Those bad impressions often make people act like assholes. Or at least acting very prejudiced and uninformed. One of the common things I hear people who have made it say, is that people who are poor need to do this, and do that, and make money, get a job, etc, etc, etc... Not once putting themselves in the other person's shoes. That's why they come off looking like assholes. My mom told me a story that perfectly shows this example. This guy she was seeing, really spoils his kids. Gives them money, etc... His daughter was moving into an apartment, and one of the other tenants did not have a refrigerator. Her comment to her dad: "Don't they have parents?" To her, it's assumed that your parents are obliged to buy you appliances, etc... That girl is in college. Soon she will have a degree, and be someone's boss. Do you think she will understand if on of her employees is late to work, because their car broke down? Hell no. She'd say, "Your parents should buy you a new car... that's no excuse to be late!" That's the kind of attitudes that make people hate rich people. Because they have no clue what it's like to not have things. To not have access to education. To not have access to a car, or to not have parents, etc. I meet people who had no parents around, no help with school, no encouragement, no nothing... So how the hell are those people supposed to figure out how to be successful? But it goes both ways. Poor people and people who do not have all those advantages, need to learn how to get what they need. It may take a long time, but it's possible. You can work, and save, and get a car, and get a better job. You can keep saving, and save money to go back to school, and get a degree. Then you can keep looking for a good job until you get one that pays well. And you can learn to kiss ass, or do whatever you need to do to get ahead. Maybe it means going back to school *again*. It takes a lot of work to get to be successful, if you don't have someone helping you, and paying for stuff. But it can be done. But it is not easy. It's mostly left up to the poor people to do all the struggling, while the rich people generally have it easy. They have a lot more advantages. Although spoiled brats also have an "awakening" when they get in the real world, and people will not cater to them. They expect to be just as spoiled at work, as they were growing up, and they do not handle it well when people do not give them everything they expect. Those people tend to end up bitter and negative as well. Which of course does not make them any nicer to deal with in the workplace... Those are the people who's parents told them they would be making good money with their degree, but then they can't get a job, and end up having to take a low-level position. Those people are usually very bitter. Unable to see that they still had a free ride up to that point, and they will never have to struggle to get a job, save money, and pay for their own education, etc... I think people in general need to learn to be able to understand other people. Understand that not everyone had the same kind of life that you did. The biggest skill I think people can learn, to be successful, is to learn what successful people did, and then find a way to follow in their footsteps. And I'm not talking about following in the footsteps of people who had help. Follow in the footsteps of people who paved their own road to success, on their own... But when you get to the top, don't forget that it's not easy for people to get there. Life is not easy. Nor fun.

It can be fun, but not easy... I agree with the above... There are a lot of very spoiled people out there - the infamous "guy that I work with" is one of them. He feels that it is his "destiny" to get a great job. Thing is, he is SOOO clueless about everything. All he does is parrot some crap he hears around him and spit out some business-school jargon that he has no real concept of. He has made no moves to start his own companies, no moves to get internships.. he thinks when he graduates and his parents have paid the bill that he gets a sweet little office on his way out. He will probably get "in" somewhere in a boring little position, get bitter when he doesn't "move up," and start drinking and going to church (yech).

[Amelia G]

There are plenty of stupid, poor Boomers. I don't think that you automatically get your "sell out and get rich" card when you hit a certain age.... Of course, maybe I just haven't reached that age yet! Yeehaw... Can't wait until I'm 30... Then I can join the other rich sell-outs...

I dunno... People hate rich people because they have something that everyone wants. Same reason some people hate beautiful people.

It seems like a weird form of envy given that I would think most people were moving in the direction of being richer and older. Not necessarily extremely wealthy or very elderly but definitely more so than whatever anyone is today.

Grebo, you sound like you are blaming one group of people for the problems of another group of people. If a person in this country doesn't like his job, he/she can go find another one. He can go to school after work instead of going to the bar or heading down to the "rent-to-own" and picking up that wide-screen TV and leather sofa for ONLY $25/month. He can start a small business instead of impregnating his wife for the 6th freakin' time. The beauty of capitalism... We all have choices.

Anybody ever seen the movie "SLC Punk?"

One of my favorite movies of all time. I cried for like twenty minutes in a movie theatre bathroom after the first time I saw it.

[One Eyed Cat]

Okay, this is just me and I'm sure you are right that there are people who think being rich is admirable, but it seems to me that having more dough is always desirable. What a person wants or decides to spend it on is a totally different issue, but no matter what an individual's values are, they should be able to achieve what they view as good more and better with more resources.

Sometimes people cause one another pain, but there is not a reason why someone needs to cause more pain than average to be successful. In my experience, most of the unkindest people I have ever met are unsuccessful.

I don't think "being rich" is, in and of itself, admirable or unadmirable. The path I've chosen will make me a very rich man, but that is not why I chose it. As you said: With more resources I will be able to apply more to what I feel is right. With the proper goals and focus, I believe you can do well by doing good.

OEC

[Dark Z]

I can't get angry at "The man" (that shadowy omnipresent force of "the rich")

The people on my "Hate list" have earned their way onto it through their own personal misdeeds.

looking at a person's good or evil based on how much money they have, is as useful as having a traffic light in the middle of the desert.

[Amelia G]

Totally agree with OEC and Dark Z. I don't personally like or dislike someone for how much money they have, but their deeds and intentions make all the difference to me.

[Morning Glory]

[QUOTE=tinstar] If a person in this country doesn't like his job, he/she can go find another one. He can go to school after work instead of going to the bar or heading down to the "rent-to-own" and picking up that wide-screen TV and leather sofa for ONLY $25/month. He can start a small business instead of impregnating his wife for the 6th freakin' time. The beauty of capitalism... We all have choices.
QUOTE]

what country do you live in? it's certainly not america. If you have a job whether you like it or not, you are lucky. it's not easy to find a job. it's pretty fucking hard, actually. even a minimum wage job. also it's pretty much impossible to go to school especially if you don't have a job, and if you do have a job, if it's a minimum wage job that means you probbily don't make enough to even pay your rent and eat, so where is that money supposed to come from?

we like to think that anyone can live the american dream, but that is only true if you allready have money to begin with, if you are born poor then you probbily aren't going go far, and even if you become sucessfull enough to get where you want to you'll be in debt for the rest of your life paying back the banks and the credited card companies, because that's the only way you're going to be able to afford to open your own business or go to school without a scholarship.

[Tequila Zaire]

we like to think that anyone can live the american dream, but that is only true if you allready have money to begin with, if you are born poor then you probbily aren't going go far, and even if you become sucessfull enough to get where you want to you'll be in debt for the rest of your life paying back the banks and the credited card companies, because that's the only way you're going to be able to afford to open your own business or go to school without a scholarship.

That's just untrue...I know many who started with nothing (like my parents) and achieved far better than they thought possible. They do have debts, problems, and hardships but life is not lived without problems or difficulties at any level. You can't deal yourself out of the possibility and work needed to change because of what you listed above...many have fought past it and found a balance that works for them or at least improves where they started. Just cause you're born poor does not deal you out of a good life or possibilities...and it was only in the U.S. that my parents where able to achieve what they have...and they were not even born here so they were poor from OTHER nations. If you honestly feel that you can't advance because of what you listed as reasons then that's pretty sad because those are difficulties that are overcome by thousands each day. You have to actually do something about your situation to change it though...not jsut complain about it or think of a dream...this nation is filled with stories of the poor and beaten rising up to change their paths in life...it simply does no good to have the attitude that you're beaten before you start or that you are ever beaten at all.

What good are you to anyone with that mentality? or yourself?

[Morning Glory]

the point wasn't that these people can't overcome it, but that people that are already better off use themselves as an example of how anyone can do it, and maybe they can, but it's misguided because it's a ridiculous standard to hold everyone to. It's pretty condescending for someone whos parents paid thier way through thier whole life to tell someone who works at a shitty job and is babrely scraping by that they are in that postion because they haven't worked hard enough.

the point isn't that if I slave away and work my ass for months I can throw down the cash that paris hilton drops in five minutes on an outfit without even flinching.. yay! the system works! No the system doesn't fucking work because it creates such an imbalanced fucked up situation in the frst place.

[Morning Glory]

America is the greatest country in the world, where anyone can become something... yet milions of people can't afford to eat and can't afford to pay for shelter every day. what's wrong with this picture?
The Company lays off all it's workers and moves the factory overseas for cheaper labor. well it's thier own fault because they are lazy, if they worked harder then they would be the CEO and they'd be the ones putting other people out on the street instead, so therefor they deserve it. when did Social Darwinism come back into popular culture? or did it ever really leave?

[Amelia G]

the point wasn't that these people can't overcome it, but that people that are already better off use themselves as an example of how anyone can do it, and maybe they can, but it's misguided because it's a ridiculous standard to hold everyone to. It's pretty condescending for someone whos parents paid thier way through thier whole life to tell someone who works at a shitty job and is babrely scraping by that they are in that postion because they haven't worked hard enough.

the point isn't that if I slave away and work my ass for months I can throw down the cash that paris hilton drops in five minutes on an outfit without even flinching.. yay! the system works! No the system doesn't fucking work because it creates such an imbalanced fucked up situation in the frst place.

It is the worst system in the world. Except for all the others.

Paris Hilton is the extreme example and not the rule. I think there are a lot of people who post here who have jobs which are rewarding in some way and I doubt there is anyone who buys a hundred thousand dollar clothing item and sends a press release out about it. Honestly, I don't believe even Paris Hilton is in Paris Hilton's apparent position. I think much of her supposed lavish spending is just creative PR.

Didn't Paris Hilton's grandfather build the Hilton fortune and didn't he have like twenty grandkids? I'm not totally up on my Hilton history, but, even a great fortune, used for a lifetime minus charity and divided twenty ways is not super likely to mean that all one's descendants live like kings and queens. I mean, I'm sure Paris Hilton grew up with some advantages I didn't have, but I'm also sure she does better financially than other Hilton heirs who don't work like she does. Just not as much better as entertainment television and such might lead one to believe.

Which really just demonstrates that optimism would suggest everyone who works will eventually get both older and richer, no matter where they start out.

[Morning Glory]

paris is an extreme example, but an acurate one, and I'm sure living in LA and being a player in the fashion world you see microcosm examples of people just like that all the time.

and as far as the system being the best by default, which I don't really believe in, seems kind of like jaded thinking to me. Is America as bad as a lot of countries? No. but does that mean that we should ignore our own third world problems? not if we really do believe in the dream of progress.

time to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and talk about some real action. hopefully we will find a cure for Accumulative Wealth Disorder, but until then my solution would be to stop spending money on dropping bombs on people.That would mean less taxes and more revenue for business which means we could raise minimum wage and start paying people a real living wage.

since I am drifting off topic, to sum up the point I really agree with one eyed cat. money and power can allow you to do the things that you want. I wish that it would more often be used to do good things. Likewise there are things that I would like that I cannot afford, so I'll have to make do without them. it would be nice, but it requires compromises that I am not willing to make. The best things in life truly are free, and if they aren't then they are truly worthless. basically it's shortsighted to hate anyone for any reason. people are often just victims or benefactors of circumstances that are beyond thier control, and can't be blamed for that. I do believe in optimism but one should also be able to recognize the negative, so that it can be stopped. virtue is it's own reward so it doesn't want or need as much recognition. (although a little bit is nice, but not too much as to offend modesty).

[tinstar]

It seems like a weird form of envy given that I would think most people were moving in the direction of being richer and older. Not necessarily extremely wealthy or very elderly but definitely more so than whatever anyone is today.





One of my favorite movies of all time. I cried for like twenty minutes in a movie theatre bathroom after the first time I saw it.

Yikes! Sorry if my sarcasm gets misread.... I tried to make a New Year's resolution about that one, but you know how stuff like that goes I really would not "sell out," but selling out doesn't mean cutting my hair or anything so superficial - it means selling your soul, your dreams, the things that you supposedly love to do.

Selling out can occur on so many levels, but the concept of selling out can be a form of control as well. Take a room of 20 punks and put them in room A. Punk #13 decides he wants to transfer to room B because hair dye is cheaper and the beer tastes better, but he has to work extra hours at the tattoo parlor. Is he a sellout, or is he exercising his individuality? If punks 1-12 and 14-20 decide that Punk 13 is a sellout, does that make Punk 13 a poseur? If Punks 14-20 side with Punk 13 and transfer to Room B, are they poseurs too? If Punk 13 is NOT a poseur and is exercising his individuality, are Punks 1-12 now poseurs?

That is the kind of silliness that happens when people start making generalities and taking entire groups as having a single mind, whether the criteria is money or mohawks.

(And yes, that movie is awesome... Poor Heroin Bob... He was my favorite. )

[TheDeathKnight]

I'm not sure I agree with the assertion that people can't get ahead due to extreme poverty and extreme lack of education. If you are smart enough to know that you want to get ahead, then you are smart enough to realize that education or specialized training helps a lot. Ok, so how do you do it? You mention scholarships, and financial aid. It's out there. You just have to research it. I had a lot of my school paid for by grants, because my mom was poor. I had to take out some loans, but not too much. Under $10K. And if getting financial aid for education is not possible for some reason, then join the military. They do provide some training, education, etc... A friend of mine was in the army reserves, and just signed up full time, because they are paying for his Law School training, because he is going to be a JAG. So when he gets out of the Army, he will have a law degree, *and* experience with the job. Look, I know it's lame to sell out, or work for an evil entity like the government. But if you really do want to get ahead, and get an education, there are ways to do it. I am just sick of people complaining about their lack of money, or how unfair life is. If you choose not to go back to school, get training in a useful skill, etc, then too bad. I am sure there are jobs out there for hardcore scientists. But is science too hard for you? Not good at math? Well too fucking bad. It's fucking HARD to learn new things. Education for high-paying jobs is not easy at all. It's a lot of studying, learning, struggling, etc... And also, regarding people not having enough money left over for school, I know people who live with 5-7 roommates. So that their rent is only $100-$200 a month. So that they *can* save money for school, even with a minimum wage job. A friend of mine used to rent a walk-in closet as his room, for $100 a month, while he was going to college. I totally agree with the comment that if people did not spend their money at the club, or on the new DVD, or on other toys, that they would be able to save the money they need to get more education, a better job, etc... It is 100% *your* choice if you choose to stay in the life you are currently in. I have no problem if someone wants to be an auto mechanic, or whatever. But if you are not happy with your pay, and not happy with your life, there are ways to get educated, and get a high-paying job. You just have to do research into what companies need. To say it is hard to find a job, is bullshit. Maybe it's hard to find a job in BFE. I have a friend with a college degree, but works at Domino's Pizza, because he is unwilling to leave his little tiny town. But here in Los Angeles, I see "help wanted" ads all over the place. The big company I work for is desperate to hire people right now. But only educated people with skills. But if you had that education, you could get paid really well. I just think that people who bitch and complain are just people who are not able to figure out the way life works. Life *is* hard, and it *is* competitive. But there are ways to get ahead. And it's not horribly hard to figure out. Life will never be all roses and easy living for most people. But it's not too hard to get yourself to a position where you are making a decent wage, and able to do things with your life that make you happy. It does not have to be a continual struggle. But if you stay where you are, at the bottom, yes, it's gonna suck... And life is going to seem pretty shitty... But that's only because you won't get off your ass and do something about it. It's not because people are conspiring to keep you down. They want to hire you! and pay you well... If you have the motivation to get the skills employers want... I know a lot of gothic and strange looking people, who work from home as programmers, make good money, and live how they want to live. It's very possible to have a cool life, if you just take the time to learn new things. Hell, you can learn programming from books, and on your own time, without any school at all. But the question is this: Do you play a video game after work, go drinking, watch a movie, or do you pick up a book and learn a skill?

[One Eyed Cat]

Members of my family came here from Ukraine with a pair of shoes and a dream. My grandfather worked his ass off and became an MD. In the next 2 generations; we've had Attorneys, Doctors and an Uncle who owns a big chunk of Wine Country. I'm not without sympathy for the have nots. People can make it in this country with a little diligence, however. If a group of people can step off the boat and get to where we are now, anything is possible. My only complaint is the americanized version of our name (am changing it back)

OEC

[Amelia G]

A thing some people might not realize is that, in addition to being a good penny saver, group house living can actually be pretty fun too. I lived in a townhouse with more than a dozen people. We had this arcane math based on a share for a room and a share for a person, so you paid less if you didn't have your own room and we figured out whether the laundry room was half a share etc. I did it because I was poor, but I actually had a really good time after all was said and done and had some really special experiences which could never have been had in any other situation.

Hey DeathKnight, this is a semi off-topic question, but what are your thoughts about ways people can research what companies look for? I know that when I got out of school, staggering under massive debt and well-educated and eager to work, I was pretty confused by that. I'm really happy about where I am at with what I do today, but I suspect I took a far more circuitous path than was necessary. I pretty much did what my heart told me to do until people finally started paying me for it. Which is cool and I count my blessings, except for the malnutrition and all along the way.

Anyway, it would be awesome if you had some suggestions for folks who are working on that puzzle now on how to research what companies are looking for in jobs which pay. You always have the greatest insights. I really love having you here.

[One Eyed Cat]

paris is an extreme example, but an acurate one, and I'm sure living in LA and being a player in the fashion world you see microcosm examples of people just like that all the time.

and as far as the system being the best by default, which I don't really believe in, seems kind of like jaded thinking to me. Is America as bad as a lot of countries? No. but does that mean that we should ignore our own third world problems? not if we really do believe in the dream of progress.

time to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and talk about some real action. hopefully we will find a cure for Accumulative Wealth Disorder, but until then my solution would be to stop spending money on dropping bombs on people.That would mean less taxes and more revenue for business which means we could raise minimum wage and start paying people a real living wage.

since I am drifting off topic, to sum up the point I really agree with one eyed cat. money and power can allow you to do the things that you want. I wish that it would more often be used to do good things. Likewise there are things that I would like that I cannot afford, so I'll have to make do without them. it would be nice, but it requires compromises that I am not willing to make. The best things in life truly are free, and if they aren't then they are truly worthless. basically it's shortsighted to hate anyone for any reason. people are often just victims or benefactors of circumstances that are beyond thier control, and can't be blamed for that. I do believe in optimism but one should also be able to recognize the negative, so that it can be stopped. virtue is it's own reward so it doesn't want or need as much recognition. (although a little bit is nice, but not too much as to offend modesty).

I've noticed that a myopic pursuit of money does not even make people happy. I'm always willing to help people out (especially punks and young folks with great potential) To be frank, I just don't what is to be done. The shadow side of this country tends to be the alienation, disillusion, and frustration of a lot of young people with great potential. Sadly, I have seen them fall more often than I was able to give them a hand up.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

A thing some people might not realize is that, in addition to being a good penny saver, group house living can actually be pretty fun too. I lived in a townhouse with more than a dozen people. We had this arcane math based on a share for a room and a share for a person, so you paid less if you didn't have your own room and we figured out whether the laundry room was half a share etc. I did it because I was poor, but I actually had a really good time after all was said and done and had some really special experiences which could never have been had in any other situation.

Hey DeathKnight, this is a semi off-topic question, but what are your thoughts about ways people can research what companies look for? I know that when I got out of school, staggering under massive debt and well-educated and eager to work, I was pretty confused by that. I'm really happy about where I am at with what I do today, but I suspect I took a far more circuitous path than was necessary. I pretty much did what my heart told me to do until people finally started paying me for it. Which is cool and I count my blessings, except for the malnutrition and all along the way.

Anyway, it would be awesome if you had some suggestions for folks who are working on that puzzle now on how to research what companies are looking for in jobs which pay. You always have the greatest insights. I really love having you here.

I've never understood why people look down on living in groups or extended families. In many cultures, you do so out of respect to the elderly. You take care of those who took care of you. Group housing is the same way. I lived in a few places and even squatted just for the experience.

OEC

[TheDeathKnight]

Thanks for the compliment!

As far as researching companies, I think the best thing to do, is search Monster.com, or other job sites, and see what companies are looking for. At least in a general way. Sometimes people are told that a certain degree is a good thing to get, only to find that is not really true. With the increases in technology, computer and electronics skills seem to be a sure bet. Electrical engineering, programming, etc... People will always get sick, and medical technology is always moving forward. So I am sure working as a doctor, or in a research lab, or hospital, is another good bet. Things like accounting is not so useful, as computers are doing more and more of the bookkeeping. But I think looking at the "help-wanted" ads is the best bet. The key is to research what you want to do, before you go to school for it. Or at least get a general idea what you want to pursue, before jumping in. I had a lot of problems getting a job after school, because I made a choice of degrees that was not very marketable. So I took the long way around, and most of my skills are self-taught. So having taught myself most of my current skills, I have no sympathy for people who won't do what they need to do. I stayed late at work, to learn things on their computer, because I could not afford a computer of my own. I worked really shitty jobs, to pay for school. Painting houses, cleaning air conditioning filters, working in a boiler room, doing concrete work, construction, digging ditches, washing cars, working in an auto body shop, directing traffic, etc, etc... All for $10 an hour or less. But I worked my ass off, to pay for school. And after school was over, I worked my ass off at work, and also after work, to improve my skills. And yes, I get paid pretty good now, and have a pretty good job. It may be partly luck, but it's also partly hard work. All I know, is that there are particular jobs that are cool jobs, and well-paying jobs. From working on movies, photography, music, building hot-rods, etc... All you have to do, is figure out what skills you need to have, to succeed at those jobs, and work your ass off, until you can do something great, and get paid for your work... It won't happen overnight. It takes YEARS of hard work. But the worst thing you can do, is get depressed, and negative, and start thinking that the world is against you. The world is tough and competitive, but if you are smart enough, and dedicated enough, you can make it. Look at Jennifer's movie project. She banged out a screenplay. And maybe it will go somewhere. But if not, is that the end of the world? No. Figure out why it did not work, and try again. If you make a CD of your band's music, and no one buys it, and no one comes to your shows, do you give up? Or do you figure out why no one likes it and make changes? If you are unwilling to change or adapt, you might as well just do those things as a hobby. Because you will never make a career out of something, if you are unwilling to adapt... If NIN does the same thing over and over, people will get bored. So he has to come up with something new, that people like, or else he will not sell any CDs. That's the harsh reality.

[TheDeathKnight]

Unless you are Green Day or Offspring, or Bad Religion.

Then you can do the same thing over and over.