Isn't it shortsighted to hate people who are older or richer?

[One Eyed Cat]

Unless you are Green Day or Offspring, or Bad Religion.

Then you can do the same thing over and over.

Even Green Day has changed considerably. The shows I went to this year were nothing like the shows of 10-15 years ago. I'll get em playing the old stuff in Kyiv though.

OEC

[Morning Glory]

oh man.. not another green day sellout debate!

[One Eyed Cat]

oh man.. not another green day sellout debate!

Nah, just pointing out the obvious. I'll have to admit it was pretty sad when they broke into Op Ivy and I was the only one who knew the words.

OEC

[Morning Glory]

aw, that's just sad. what song?

[One Eyed Cat]

aw, that's just sad. what song?

Knowledge

OEC

[Morning Glory]

haha. have you ever heard Evergreen Terrace's cover of that? if not you should check it out. I think thier music is kind of medicore, but their Cd of all cover songs is hilarious.

[TheDeathKnight]

I was just kidding.

I like most of those bands.

And I actually like the fact that you always know what you are going to get.

If you like their stuff, you will probably be happy with each new CD...

[Tequila Zaire]

the point wasn't that these people can't overcome it, but that people that are already better off use themselves as an example of how anyone can do it, and maybe they can, but it's misguided because it's a ridiculous standard to hold everyone to. It's pretty condescending for someone whos parents paid thier way through thier whole life to tell someone who works at a shitty job and is babrely scraping by that they are in that postion because they haven't worked hard enough.

the point isn't that if I slave away and work my ass for months I can throw down the cash that paris hilton drops in five minutes on an outfit without even flinching.. yay! the system works! No the system doesn't fucking work because it creates such an imbalanced fucked up situation in the frst place.

It's not just about hard work...it's being smart enough to see better methods to get beyond your current situation...if you want to live like Paris Hilton...well then you have quite a lot to do...anything is possible in this and other countries...but not if you already set yourself up for failure.

[Tequila Zaire]

It is the worst system in the world. Except for all the others.

Paris Hilton is the extreme example and not the rule. I think there are a lot of people who post here who have jobs which are rewarding in some way and I doubt there is anyone who buys a hundred thousand dollar clothing item and sends a press release out about it. Honestly, I don't believe even Paris Hilton is in Paris Hilton's apparent position. I think much of her supposed lavish spending is just creative PR.

Didn't Paris Hilton's grandfather build the Hilton fortune and didn't he have like twenty grandkids? I'm not totally up on my Hilton history, but, even a great fortune, used for a lifetime minus charity and divided twenty ways is not super likely to mean that all one's descendants live like kings and queens. I mean, I'm sure Paris Hilton grew up with some advantages I didn't have, but I'm also sure she does better financially than other Hilton heirs who don't work like she does. Just not as much better as entertainment television and such might lead one to believe.

Which really just demonstrates that optimism would suggest everyone who works will eventually get both older and richer, no matter where they start out.

Added to this is the fact Paris has managed to make quite a fortune on her own...she did what few in her world do right...market themselves as a product. She obviously paid attention to the brand name that is Hilton and gave it her own spin...she's made quite a metric ton of money just off being Paris Hilton. She did start out rich as all hell but she at least added to it instead of just doing nothing and waiting for her trust fun to blow wide open. It's an extreme example and not one I would hold as a method to inspire...but one does have to study those who succeed where we fail if one wants to get anywhere. You can't go around with the attitude you're in your current position solely because of outside forces or some grant system...people rise above the most harshest of circumstances...and if they can't get to where they want to they go where it will aloow them to at times with nothing more than what they are wearing...

To live in the U.S. and complain "the system is keeping me down" makes for good rants but many rise above it...even its more harshes critics...but then some people want jsut that out of life...to complain and find fault while they take comfort in their misery since to try and fail would hurt more than to continue their miserable lives. After all no one wants to be proven wrong or worse be proven wrong and fail at being able to make good like others have.

[OliX]

I hate haters

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Success is very often more than hard work. Without connections and opportunity all the hard work in the world will not get you ahead. Some people get through it, but in general success starts long before you are born.

Sure there are grants and such available to people, but most people don't just know these things exist. How do you know they exist when no one is there to point you in the right direction? Being smart and working hard only get you so far.

I am usually a defender of Paris Hilton, but it is a lot easier to make money when you have money. People throw out Donald Trump as a symbol of success without looking at the fact that he started with money. While I am sure people can point me to stories of people starting with nothing and turning it into something, more often than not those people had family, friends or a community to help them start out. It is hard to think of the future when you are hungry. Sometimes all it takes is one small break to get ahead, but likewise sometimes all it takes is on bad break to fall behind. This is not to look down on the hard work people put in, but it is easy to overlook the simple advantages you have.

I spent a long time working two minimum wage jobs just to get by and pay rent. I would have never gotten anywhere if I did not have a friend who was able to let me crash on his couch for $100 a month while I worked one job so I could look for a better one. A small break I take for granted. Look at the small breaks you ge through your life, internet, phones, consistant mailing addresses, not having to work to survive in high school, going to a high school with descent books, ect. Even things like Libraries with internet access, colleges that offer good scholarships to adults or people who did not do as well in high school, or the availability of jobs that allow you to learn are not as common as people think. The devil's in the details.

Yes a lot of people just accept thier lot in life and complain without really trying to move on. A lot of other people, smart people, hard working people, try but never succeed. Be proud of the hard work or clever planning you did, but also be aware that these were not the only ingredients in your success.

[devil13]

WARNIG RANT IN PROGRESS
I will be the first to really say fuck the rich. not because of the money they have but because of the power money brings. if I get caught stealing $100.00 what prison do I go to? what kind of legal defense do I get? now if your rich you can steal billions and get a slap on the wrist (even though Martha Stewart was really a scapegoat look at what she got). if your rich and famous you can get away with murder. I have seen first hand how people with money abuse their power. the reason why? because they can. how can I say fuck the rich? because I can. what, just because Paris Hilton knows how to use the media Im suposed think she has a head for business? fuck her (thats what shes really good at anyways). she wouldnt make any of the money she has made if it wasnt for her family (the ones who really worked and sweat for the millions so she could live a care free life). and boy what father wouldnt be proud of a slut with the catch frase "thats hot". hell even a guy who once had a coke habit and sucked as an owner of a baseball team his father gave him can still be president of the United States of America because his oil rich daddy was once head of CIA. In Money=Power We Trust.

[Amelia G]

Paris Hilton may not have a head for business, but my point at least was that there are other Hilton heirs who don't have jobs like she does and I'm sure they have less dough than she does. Whatever you come from, you can do better through hard work.

Also, re: my original point, whatever you come from, you will presumably get older and richer, unless maybe you just have a trust fund you waste into nothing. But the trajectory for most people should be in the direction of aging and more resources.

Money is useless on its own. It is by definition only valuable for what it can get you. I know there are people who fetishize money itself, but I just don't get that.

Cafe_Post_Mortem -- you are absolutely right that we all should remember to count our blessings. The smallest thing can knock a person off kilter for a long time and the smallest thing can make everything all right.

There are some people who just refuse to take the opportunities they are handed. Having been really down myself and having felt like I could do so much if only someone would give me the opportunity, I have given A LOT of people opportunities they would never have gotten it up to get on their own. Unfortunately, I learned the very hard way that some people really want to sit around stoned going "wouldn't it be cool if . . ." but they would hate hate hate it if anyone actually hooked them up to do the thing they are fantasizing about. Once given the opportunity, possible failure is on them for lack of ability or laziness and not "the man" keeping them down. Some people don't want opportunity because it is too frightening a test for them I guess.

[TheDeathKnight]

Yeah... I don't want my previous posts to sound like I do not understand the lack of support some people have. Yes, you can work to make life better, and you can succeed. But people often have no idea how to go about doing it. If people in poor neighborhoods had parents forcing them to do good in school, and telling them they must get scholarships, then they might rise above their circumstances. But if you grow up with abuse and neglect, no one is going to tell you to do anything. So you will end up having a shitty life, no education, and no idea how to get out. So I do sympathize with people who had no support. But at the same time, if you are smart enough to know that you want a better life, then you are smart enough to figure out how to get one. It's not hard. Work more. Save money. Go back to school. Get a better job, save money, do something with that money, etc... Repeat...

[sheramil]

I don't mean to sound like a fucking Boomer hippie as I am most assuredly not one, but it seems like there is too much misguided hate in the world right now. j/k

indeed. we should save our precious hatred for those who deserve it; scientologists and people who top-post on usenet.

[Tequila Zaire]

Paris Hilton may not have a head for business

I dunno about that...she's deceptively bright when it comes to generating cashflow for basicly being nothing but "Paris". I think she has everyone fooled by her public image to be honest. My respect for her went up when she showed up 6 hours late to that club she lent her name to in Orlando on opening night...she earned somethign liek 10 to 14 million for that lil deal and to STILL pretty much blow it off is hilarious.

She's more entertaining than some celebrities on screen, stage, or field.