Does 09/11 wear the late crown?

[Titus]

I know there's mainly Americans on this board, and I have discussed the subject already often with friends from NY -- so if you're completely overfed on it, worn out subject aso., feel free to ignore.

Probably most of you know 'The Emperors New Clothes' and the many conspiracy theories -- but what do you actually think??
I believe in the moon landing, but I'm not sure whether I believe in the 9/11 official story....

ps: I'm listening to Public Enemy right now...'Fear of the Black Planet' - full of prophecies...

[ForrestBlack]

I dialed 911 a long time ago...

[killerkat]

i'm not soo sure either,our gov. killed it's own people for knowing to much in Iraq,why not the whole thing.....hmmmm......

[Tequila Zaire]

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they fall too much into the idea that hundreds of people can keep a secret...and in the more wild ones like the near endless 9/11 ones...it's just not buyable. People don't keep small secrets between freinds....kinda doubt they would keep a massive government one that would need the cooperation of thousands in this case both in and out of the government itself around the world...

[Titus]

I agree that most of the conspiracy theories (and I know only the 'Emperor's New Clothes' -ones) sound like fairy tales; but then the fairy tale the president read to little children and later ob the whole nation don't convince me as well. I mean things like why did he remain relatively unprotected the whole time after it happened (his air force guards missing aso.), why did he react like a snail in the first place, why did the president or the vice-president give no orders to shoot the plane still in the air, why did the whole apparatus of protection work so slow, and how about the theory that the Twin Towers actually couldn't collapse by the attack.........?
Plus, certain people (like terrorists, hijackers and secret services) obviousley CAN keep a secret, and it maybe would need only a certain amount of 'iniciated' ones to let the masses believe in them and work for them, domino-effect-like...
Maybe not the whole picture the government has created is false, but I'm sure there are blurry spots and we know only versions treated by their cosmetics.

[Tequila Zaire]

That's kinda the thing though, in hindsight people feel that the President is some sorta of superman or that our military is this well oiled killing machine that has every inch of our nations protected...that's just not the case. At that point in time too many who the president uses for information were in the dark, the previous administration had gutted the CIA, and the terrorrists involved didn't so much keep a secret as they were kept in the dark. Few knew the final plan till late in the game...and given they were not exactly the type to mingle all the much in American society...they didn't really spill it to anyone who would want to stop it...or could. Everything in hindsight raises questions and what if's...but that's true of any tragedy. Too many expected the president to jump from his seat like some Hollywood movie or TV show when in reality like many of us..had to wait till those who inform him knew what the hell was going on exactly. Many forget that in THOSE moments no one knew of even those one held close and trusted...could BE trusted. So immediately everyone was suspect and remained that way for a very very long time...none of this came to light though.

As far as the theories that the attacks would not have collapsed the buildings...they simply need to study the report and explenations put out as to why they collapsed. No building is designed for that kind of trauma and temperatures. Plus many forget the towers were pretty old at this point.

At this point many forget it's much easier to keep something destructive a secret than something secure. You don't have to try as hard to keep people from talking if you have them warped enough to think their actions are justifiable.

The government explenation is not clear or even correct...and it won't be for decades. Look at WW2 only till the 90's where most documents available and I think the same will be true for this war and what caused it. Too much simply can't be said or can't be said NOW. However it's not dofficult to at least get an accurate picture of what's going on provided you accept what you see...and that's the problem...many don't. Too many want everythign to be like The West Wing or 24.

[killerkat]

Too many want everythign to be like The West Wing or 24.

they may not want is like that ,BUT as a whole people are pretty stuipid so i think they accept that(the tv) as fact......and soooo sad it is....


sorry if that doesn't make since....

[Morning Glory]

on a semi-related note it really pisses me off how they finally reveal the truth 20 years after the fact, and then say well, yeah, we fucked up.. but that's in the past now, we can't be blamed for it, and everyone responsible is either dead or no longer in power, so it's all good and won't ever happen again. even though the same thing continuily happens over and over again.

[Morning Glory]

i'm not saying that there's neccesarily anything that can be done about it, just that it's bullshit. but that's how governments work, they purposely keep people in the dark and make secretes, even though most of the time those secrets are non threatening and wouldn't be a problem if revealed... what it does is creates information that only the government knows, and thus instills the sense that they are above the people and that the people really need them. If people knew that government officials really were just like us and handled things the same way that most of us would, then the entire structure of authority would collapse.

[inox]

I can't say as to all of it, but I can vouch for the fact that a plane did, in fact, slam into the side of the Pentagon. My front door rattled with the force of it.

[Nightmare Pin]

Too many want everythign to be like The West Wing

yup...it would be nice to have really intelligent people with a strong sense of what is right and wrong in the whitehouse.....but thats just a tv. show...nnnooooootttthhhhiiiiiiinnnggggg like the real world...

[Tequila Zaire]

yup...it would be nice to have really intelligent people with a strong sense of what is right and wrong in the whitehouse.....but thats just a tv. show...nnnooooootttthhhhiiiiiiinnnggggg like the real world...

Again...it's a TV show...it's suppose to be idealized and simplistic with much of the complication of life left out. The drama created follows the formula established long ago...the real world does not function that way so to expect an illusion tha takes place over an hour to be what one shold desire from a real world government is dangerously naive. Both 24 and The West Wing fail in showing the modivations and complications of the OTHER agencies, governments, and individuals that effect what they do without directly intersecting with them. It makes for entertaining TV but if one really thinks the world revolves souly around a set group of people well...thne of course that's what they want. It would make life so much easier.

[bre.star]

i guess we wont find out until we are all in our 60s and all the secret documents come to surface and people make TV shows and its written in our grandchildrens history books what REALLY happened..

[Kidthorazine]

i guess we wont find out until we are all in our 60s and all the secret documents come to surface and people make TV shows and its written in our grandchildrens history books what REALLY happened..

Yeah right... People have benn saying the same thing about JFK and nothing new has come up.

[Tequila Zaire]

Yeah right... People have benn saying the same thing about JFK and nothing new has come up.

What's there to say? The History Channel a year or so back aired an excellent documentary that assassinated every conspiracy theory since the incident. It used everything from science to documentation and highlighted the now laughable errors in everything from the film JFK to the theories that Oswald could not have fired 3 shots in the time given. Best bit...a nearly 90 year old man from the original investigation loading and firing 3 shots from the rifle type Oswald did in under the time Oswald had...wish I'd recorded it.

[devil13]

to the theories that Oswald could not have fired 3 shots in the time given. Best bit...a nearly 90 year old man from the original investigation loading and firing 3 shots from the rifle type Oswald did in under the time Oswald had...wish I'd recorded it.

and where did Oswald learn how shoot like that?
IN THE MARINES, SIR!

[Kidthorazine]

What's there to say? The History Channel a year or so back aired an excellent documentary that assassinated every conspiracy theory since the incident. It used everything from science to documentation and highlighted the now laughable errors in everything from the film JFK to the theories that Oswald could not have fired 3 shots in the time given. Best bit...a nearly 90 year old man from the original investigation loading and firing 3 shots from the rifle type Oswald did in under the time Oswald had...wish I'd recorded it.

they just showed that today on the history channel i doubt anyone else killed JFK but I have doubts as to wiether or not Oswald was working alone.

[Tequila Zaire]

and where did Oswald learn how shoot like that?
IN THE MARINES, SIR!

Yup, where even the cooks can kill a man a mile away.

[Titus]

I'm German..I don't trust politicians posing with children while leading their nations to a disaster, especially not if they turn out a liar -- or was it a lie that Bush claimed to have seen the Twin-Towers collapse on TV at a time when it was simply not possible, and did so two times in two different speeches, both accessable at the homepage of the White House?
Seriousley: If Bush would have been jogging or would have done something, say, 'unremarkable' during the attack, I would have bought the official story much easier. But he did sth remarkable: He was hanging out with children and reading a fairy tale to them. That was VERY remarkable. And then, while 'the nation was under attack' he CONTINUED for at least 20 minutes to read on, while he was meditating 'the fact, that America was under attack'...???
Polititians in general do many things every day that appear tidy and obvious but are in fact very dirty and harmful; that's why they notorically seek the company of children, to suggest our eyes that their aims would be comparably innocent. So maybe George W was in fact very lucky that he was with children that day and time, and his bodyguards very clever to leave him there.
But maybe also George W wasn't so lucky after all, but helped luck a little bit and was clever in the first place? Or at least his advisors..?
Just think about how different your eyes would have digestet 09/11 if
--George W would have been jogging (that's maybe the only harmless thing he can do during his day)
--He would have been in a conference or in his bureau in the White House
(while we all saw how he was 'in private', surrounded by innocence)
--He would have worn a uniform, surrounded by military
--He would have given some sort of lecture to a group of workers
or at least grown up people
..................................???

[Nightmare Pin]

I'm German..I don't trust politicians posing with children while leading their nations to a disaster, especially not if they turn out a liar -- or was it a lie that Bush claimed to have seen the Twin-Towers collapse on TV at a time when it was simply not possible, and did so two times in two different speeches, both accessable at the homepage of the White House?
Seriousley: If Bush would have been jogging or would have done something, say, 'unremarkable' during the attack, I would have bought the official story much easier. But he did sth remarkable: He was hanging out with children and reading a fairy tale to them. That was VERY remarkable. And then, while 'the nation was under attack' he CONTINUED for at least 20 minutes to read on, while he was meditating 'the fact, that America was under attack'...???
Polititians in general do many things every day that appear tidy and obvious but are in fact very dirty and harmful; that's why they notorically seek the company of children, to suggest our eyes that their aims would be comparably innocent. So maybe George W was in fact very lucky that he was with children that day and time, and his bodyguards very clever to leave him there.
But maybe also George W wasn't so lucky after all, but helped luck a little bit and was clever in the first place? Or at least his advisors..?
Just think about how different your eyes would have digestet 09/11 if
--George W would have been jogging (that's maybe the only harmless thing he can do during his day)
--He would have been in a conference or in his bureau in the White House
(while we all saw how he was 'in private', surrounded by innocence)
--He would have worn a uniform, surrounded by military
--He would have given some sort of lecture to a group of workers
or at least grown up people
..................................???

uhh...I really don’t get this whole "he just sat there speechless while it happened" thing. GWB. is an idiot, without his cronies there he probably didn't know what to do, he was nervous, he knew shit was going down and because he is an incompetent imbecile his reaction was inaction. This does not mean he is part of a conspiracy, in fact if there was a conspiracy going down I'm sure he'd be the last to find out.

As for posing with children? Come onn mann...that doesn’t mean shit

[luntemp]

(i hope i dont get flamed for this...)

We all understand that G.W. is as bad as a president (ecspecially during 9/11 inactivities) as "shitbird" was a bad shot, even in the marines (even though most theories about jfk have been shot down, so has the lone nut and the magic bullet, Gerald Ford thank you very much. And you must admit that there is some strange events surronding the assassination.) Also, I agree whole-heartedly with the "not knowing the true happeinings around 9/11, Iraqi-Afgan(N. Korea-Iran?) wars, for example my friend's husband was honorably discharged due to an allergic reaction to a FDA-Unapproved Anthrax shot. And I guess it's true when people call this the Pearl Harbor of our time, the Government had foreknowledge of that one too. Anyway, i just hope the soldiers overseas stay safe and that they arent attacked like vets from Vietnam.

sorry if it was boring.

[Morning Glory]

good point, luntemp. I didn't see your introduction thread if there was one. anyway, you don't have to worry so much about being flamed for what you say here, this really isn't that kind of place.

[a_small_death]

I Dialed 9/11 and still waiting after 10 years...

[Nuada_Airgetlam]

in response to the whole I am german and I do not trust politicians posing with children while leading their nation into disaster. He continued doing what he was doing with the children because he did not want them to worry or cry. If you have never had children or cared for someone else's child while that person had business that they had to take care of then you would not understand. Not to mention people like Micheal Moore creates his bullshit video full of twisted words and chopped up video to the editing he did job but actually reporting anything he really sucked at that. I am also tired of Soldiers that come home and say that there superiors ordered them to do this or to do that such as kill children or torture prisoners. when It states in plain language in the UCMJ that under no circumstances are you to obey any unlawful order or directive. THe MPs in fact have within their right the ability to arrest any officer or superior that gives such orders.
that Is all I have to say for now.