Racist Cops a Myth?

[Tequila Zaire]

Racism alone is a dicey issue with many nuances and levels. Police officers are equally as complicated an issue with corruption being the main focus. These men and women are in a strange middle between society and criminals in ways unless you either are or know a cop find difficult to understand.

However they are people and like some in this world can be racist bastards. The LAPD is know for a bit of it as are other SoCal departments and those of pretty much any city with one. It's no real shock right?

Well hell I was wrong. I put for the statement amoung friends and it seems it's racist of me to say "All White Cops Hate Black People"...which would be true if it was not for the fact what I REALLY said was "A majority of white cops are racist". Now my reason for believing that is due to life experiance...many many many bad times have revolved around me and white officers. Same for family and friends. So while I acknowledge the fact it may not be 100% true that a majority of white officers are racists...it sure as hell feels that way to me. Now normally that would be the topic of the debate or discussion really...but something odd happened.

It was denied that it was even true and that it's just a media thing or a cliche like something you would hear on a gangsta rap album. That's a disturbing thing to hear from people since the idea that racist cops is an urban myth is at least to me...a bit fucking scary. People put up with less and as the discussion went on it was pretty "heated". It just kind of died in one of those agree to disagree things but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Now the majority who disagreed with my feelings on it where white themselves so I can understand if they took it to be another "damn white people" kind of thing.

It's not of course...if I had an issue with white people in general I sure as hell wouldn't be here. I do however have an issue with the denial that what is now a cliche thought of the white racist cop is a fairy tale.

Racism as a whole is being downplayed by many as minority parinoia or "the race card" being pulled for protection. It's still pretty prevalent in nearly all walks of life...maybe not as in your face as say a black many lynched or white only signs but enough that it does occur on a very low key level. At least that's how I see it...

How do you deal with an issue where in this case members of the majority are the problem yet by and large people no longer acknowledge or want to deal with it?

One brought up the whole "reverse racism" idea that comedians of minorities can take pot shots at white people in ways white comedians could never do against minorities. Now I've heard it before and usually start playing the violin but more and more it seems to pop up with rather violently angry rants....and this is amoung the so called color blind youth.

I was lucky in that the only negative image of white people I grew up with were cops...and since cops of any ethnicity are dicks to one degree or another I put it on the backburner and dealt with it as needed...but to here that my experiences with actual racist cops are just "stories" and that it doesn't really happen anymore is surreal.


Anyone else find these weird moments where once hot button social issues like racist cops are being thought of as small time issues that have no real relavance anymore?

To me it seems like society said "It's too hard to deal with so lets forget about it and downplay any who bring it up." Part of the cause for this may be the fact it was talked about TOO much at one point with no real solution arrived and just a bunch of rants and raves. Now while not all white cops or any cop really may be a racist...the issue is something that's creeping back up in some areas in new ways as the the new generation of police officer is more a military minded individual than a peace officer minded soul. That's a dangerous problem in and of itself.

Is the notion of a racist cop a played out cliche? or simply an issue that the new generations of the white majority no longer see as a problem?

[incog]

It is a played out cliche so it would be great if it also didn't exist, but it does exist. It is a pretty typical government defense these days to accuse people of being paranoid conspiracy theorists, so no one will speak up about the wrongs being committed. I love my country, but this is wrong. Certain minorities have had more kids than the average white person, so it can't be a sliding towards the majority. I think it is the cruelly wielded power of those in power, but I don't think they speak for the real majority.

[Toe Cutter]

Is the notion of a racist cop a played out cliche? or simply an issue that the new generations of the white majority no longer see as a problem?

I don't think it's played out at all. Everything is totally sliding backward and the people back in the day who were speaking about social injustice are simply treading water in this growing classist/conservative culture.
Also since most media outlets are corporation owned, issues like that are ignored. In part due to the fact that the focus has changed since the war and bush.

I feel wierd some times. I live in a poorer neighborhood which is very diverse and maybe 10% white. I know cops are profiling becuase I get fucked with almost never, although I see brothers getting sweated all the time. I know it's fucked-up, but I'm glad I don't get fucked with.

I find it suprising that the people you were speaking with got heated about that issue. It seems like common knowledge that most cops profile (racist).

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Part of the reason people dismiss the arguement is because it is painted with broad stroked.

If you are a cop, or a friend of yours is a cop, how do you think what you said sounds to them? How is 'the majority of cops are racist' any different than 'the majority of black people are criminals'? It puts up peoples defenses when you paint them or people they respect or care about with broad strokes. Present it differently and you will get a different response.

Seriously, a statement like, "I acknowledge the fact it may not be 100% true that a majority of white officers are racists...it sure as hell feels that way to me." would certianly not get a freindly debate going if you replaced white officers (which a lot of people will take to mean white people) aand racist with any other group and trait.

Lets say I try at any point to strike up a debate with, "I acknowledge the fact it may not be 100% true that a majority of women are gold diggers...it sure as hell feels that way to me." Unless I am only talking to guys, there will not be a civil debate, because it is not a civil statement. Your personal experiences aren't everyones and you are trashing an entire group a lot of people respect rather than focusing on the ones that are the problem.

Sure, there is still a lot of racism in a lot of police departments, but you are using personal experience and feelings and expecting others to respond with logic and reason. How would you react from the other side of this?

[Morning Glory]

I do find it to be down played by the government and the major media. but that's how they always are. they shake thier fingers at the people in the past and say, well, that was them and this is now, and we can't be held accountable. P diddy plays at the white house and all the sudden racial inequality no longer exists in america. It's the reason why reperations will never be given out. people say Well it's not MY fault that slavery happened... the point isn't about blaming people for it, it's about making it so that things are fair and equal. ya know that little first line on the constitution. if you think that is the way everything is in america you need to move out of the fucking subburbs and get a clue.

[Toe Cutter]

Part of the reason people dismiss the arguement is because it is painted with broad stroked... How would you react from the other side of this?

I see your point, I never thought of it like that.

[Amelia G]

I do find it to be down played by the government and the major media. but that's how they always are. they shake thier fingers at the people in the past and say, well, that was them and this is now, and we can't be held accountable. P diddy plays at the white house and all the sudden racial inequality no longer exists in america. It's the reason why reperations will never be given out. people say Well it's not MY fault that slavery happened... the point isn't about blaming people for it, it's about making it so that things are fair and equal. ya know that little first line on the constitution. if you think that is the way everything is in america you need to move out of the fucking subburbs and get a clue.

My ancesters fled persecution in other nations only a couple generations back. None of them ever owned slaves. Many of them had to deal with hostile quotas and prejudice here too. Many worked in sweatshops and all of that. My parents were two of the first 100 card carrying members of the NAACP.

"Reparations" would build prejudice.

We should seek to provide more opportunity and to stamp out prejudice.

I think some of the problem with police profiling is that it is done poorly by people ill-equipped to do it. There are certain profiles which do tend to exhibit certain behaviors. The color of someone's skin, however, is not nearly enough to build a profile on. The racism, in my opinion, comes in when ignorant people decide that because someone looks black or hispanic, then they must be more prone to crime which is absurd racist nonsense.

Insurance companies profile based on a lot of data and this helps them make predictions. If they just decided to give a discount or a surcharge to anyone of a particular skin color and used that as their only data point, that would be laughably idiotic and wouldn't save them any dough.

[Morning Glory]

so you'd feel prejudice if your money went to helping out black people, but you don't have a problem paying to bomb middle eastern people?

i'm not proposing that we make all white people give up all there money, i'm proposing that we spend the money we allready have to make things better in america instead of spending billions every year to make bombs and fund wars overseas.

[devil13]

I think its not racism but classism. you never see cops treating the rich (or well off) like they do the poor. That has allways bothered me that there is a double standered when it comes to class. They use profiles that suck. I have had cops treat me the same as my black friends, badly. Because I fit one of their fucked up profiles. I have a shaved head and from behind they cant tell if Im a ganster or a white supremist. Its usually not till they pull me over that they realize that Im neither and just a punk.
Also there is a feeling of us vs. them among the police. That I can kinda understand. All your friends would be other cops, people would hate you, and people would want to harm or even kill you all the time. I would probably be the same way if I had become a cop.

[OliX]

races are classes.... in army and as well in police you have classes.... it all works on same principe... maybe in diferent proportions

p.s. I didn't even readed anything here... not the firsth time... why?

[Amelia G]

so you'd feel prejudice if your money went to helping out black people, but you don't have a problem paying to bomb middle eastern people?

i'm not proposing that we make all white people give up all there money, i'm proposing that we spend the money we allready have to make things better in america instead of spending billions every year to make bombs and fund wars overseas.

I have never made a public statement either pro or con any actual current political policies and it is against Blue Blood organization policy for me to do so.

I don't think it violates Blue Blood policy for me to say that I oppose racism in all forms, whether friendly or hostile.

[Tequila Zaire]

Part of the reason people dismiss the arguement is because it is painted with broad stroked.

If you are a cop, or a friend of yours is a cop, how do you think what you said sounds to them? How is 'the majority of cops are racist' any different than 'the majority of black people are criminals'? It puts up peoples defenses when you paint them or people they respect or care about with broad strokes. Present it differently and you will get a different response.

I'll be blunt, I honestly don't agree that a statement that "A majority of white cops are racist" is on the same level of "A majority of blacks are criminals." I can see why one would say they are on the same level but their are two key diffrences. My statement was a critique on the majority in power in this country. I'm sorry but you lose the ability to get defensive and easily offended when the cards are stacked in your favor and when in this case...they are the ones with dole out the law itself. I would agree more with your statement if I had said " A majority of white people are racist"...then yes it would be on the same level as the "A majority of black people are criminals".

Seriously, a statement like, "I acknowledge the fact it may not be 100% true that a majority of white officers are racists...it sure as hell feels that way to me." would certianly not get a freindly debate going if you replaced white officers (which a lot of people will take to mean white people) aand racist with any other group and trait.

That's the very nature of the debate though and the idea behind it...if the very notion of such a statement leaves such a bad taste in ones mouth then they probably have nothing to say. Read the statement for what it is...a candid and personal opinion that I won't say I'm sorry for feeling let alone sugar coat it because it sounds rougher than it is.

Lets say I try at any point to strike up a debate with, "I acknowledge the fact it may not be 100% true that a majority of women are gold diggers...it sure as hell feels that way to me." Unless I am only talking to guys, there will not be a civil debate, because it is not a civil statement. Your personal experiences aren't everyones and you are trashing an entire group a lot of people respect rather than focusing on the ones that are the problem.

Given the topc in question is racism...their is no civility in it...even when debating about it. It's ugly, heartless, and brutal...and if you experience it regularly it's quite personal. I'm well aware my personal experiences are not everyones...but they are what shapes my opinions on this subject. Read clearly what I said...I said Majority...that does leave a minority of in this case white officers I feel are not racist. I am putting focus on the problem my friend...I'm simply not downplaying it.

Sure, there is still a lot of racism in a lot of police departments, but you are using personal experience and feelings and expecting others to respond with logic and reason. How would you react from the other side of this?

Actually no, I'm not expecting logic and reason...simply feeling and emotions on it. Their is no logic or reason to why a person would be racist let alone the actions friends, family, and I have suffered from various white police officers over the years (some serious some minor all quite annoying) How would I react on the other side of this...like I must act "Yes officer, right officer, I'll be more careful next time". I have it down cold at this point. The whole question itself shows I'm on the OTHER side of it.

Sorry I couldn't make it easier to digest but what you read is about as cleaned up as I can make it. I'm not exactly alone with this idea running around in their head or a lifetime of bad experiance with white cops. Hell when you grow up and 9 out of 10 white cops treat you like shit for no good reason or harass you and yours...you tend to see that white cops who aren't racist are clearly in the minority.

[Tequila Zaire]

I find it suprising that the people you were speaking with got heated about that issue. It seems like common knowledge that most cops profile (racist).

It struck me as odd to say the least...and the end of it all I was the racist by their logic.

I don't get how people who think "A majority of cops are racist" found "A majority of white cops are racist" some how offensive and narrow minded given that in this country a majority of cops are white.

Needless to say my trust for these is long gone now since adding the word "white" to the statement makes them think I see ALL white people as white hood wearing KKK memebers. I find out odd I became the racist in their logic since my "racism" was against actual racists.

If it wasn't so funny I'd have been offended.

[cheshire centauri]

Police officers are equally as complicated an issue with corruption being the main focus. These men and women are in a strange middle between society and criminals

yeh...its a strange predicament

strange occupation....in some ways its hard to figure out who are the criminals......strange middlemen...

[Trotter]

There are always bad apples inthe bunch, having said that I live in northern VA and we are having hispanic gang problems. HISPANIC gang problems, so it is profiling, because there is a certain profile for a MS member and I dont really care. We also have day laborers, many day laborers, and guess what they're all hispanic, (whoops did i just make a generalization, lets be pc, i suppose their could be white and black day laborers as well) so if a cop stops a rundown piece of shit car full of hispanics to check for IDs or whatever else thats their business. But saying cops are only profiling one ethnic group is bs because they would be fired, departments keep track of the people police officers stop, believe me and the departments dont want to be know as racist. Cops pull people over, thats what they do, but they dont pull you over for no reason, youve got to break the law in some way. No seatbelt, no turn signal, if a cop wants to pull a car over they will find a reason believe me. I plan on becoming an officer of the law, and guess what, im going to be out there looking for crimes and criminals, and im going to pull over hispanics, and blacks, and whites, because i will be looking for trouble. Thats how it goes. Maybe some of you have dealt with cops giving you a hard time, sometimes it wasnt justified i imagine. But these men and women are given sidearms for a reason. Because some prick they pull over for speeding, will pull a gun on them and try to kill them. For fucking speeding tickets, so sorry if right away theyre not all giggles and smiles when they approach your car because they dont know you or what youre capable of. Im not looking for a fight here, im just trying to say something for the other side.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

My point is, if you say most white cops are racists you leave no room for debate, so the only counterpoint is no they are not. How else can someone react, you are giving them no room for degrees. It is a with you or against you situation. By presenting it as an all or nothing choice, it forces people who might look at the problem critically to instead just jump blindly to one side or another.

White cops are racist. But uncle Joe is a white cop and he is not racist, so that statement must be untrue. Boom, discussion over. It's not sugar coating, it is getting rid of the stereo types and digging into the actual facts. Remember the stereotypes, they're bad right?

What makes being a racist easy is dehumanization of the people you want to be racist against. Be dehumanizing cops you do the same thing and that makes it easier for them to dehumanize you. You can say you are just telling it like it is, that's how everyone else does it.

A lot of people don't see the problem because they have limited exposure, but telling them that most cops are racist isn't going to change that it is just going to put people on the defensive. Telling them they have no right to get defensive won't change anything either. Throwing out generalizations will usually offend the people who are being generalized or who are sympathetic to the people be generalized. I always though this was an easy concept.

[Tequila Zaire]

My point is, if you say most white cops are racists you leave no room for debate, so the only counterpoint is no they are not. How else can someone react, you are giving them no room for degrees. It is a with you or against you situation. By presenting it as an all or nothing choice, it forces people who might look at the problem critically to instead just jump blindly to one side or another.

Well to a great level the issue is not about being fair in a debate. It's a frame of mind and thinking that's not lookinf for appologies or even change from those charged as racists. It's a simple statement about how one sees a situation and in this case a certian proffession and it's practitioners. Those who disagree with the statement can't really change the minds of those the problem stems from...My question was if people thought the notion of the idea presented was a myth...not if it was a fair statement to those who disagree with it.

White cops are racist. But uncle Joe is a white cop and he is not racist, so that statement must be untrue. Boom, discussion over. It's not sugar coating, it is getting rid of the stereo types and digging into the actual facts. Remember the stereotypes, they're bad right?

If something is true...and in this case I have zero to go on that it's not...it becomes less a debateable stereotype and an annoying fact of life. So at this point if it's a "bad stereotype" is no longer something that bugs me...it's a "bad reality"...that has a bit more of a hit to the head.

What makes being a racist easy is dehumanization of the people you want to be racist against. Be dehumanizing cops you do the same thing and that makes it easier for them to dehumanize you. You can say you are just telling it like it is, that's how everyone else does it.

Cops aren't a race. They are profession. And some professions can indeed be dehumanizing...sadly being a cop has shown that to be quite possible. So it's not my dehumanizing them that makes them dehumanize me...it's their racism against me that dehumanizes me and mine. I can only react and deal with it...my slings and arrows won't hurt them unless I use real ones.

A lot of people don't see the problem because they have limited exposure, but telling them that most cops are racist isn't going to change that it is just going to put people on the defensive. Telling them they have no right to get defensive won't change anything either. Throwing out generalizations will usually offend the people who are being generalized or who are sympathetic to the people be generalized. I always though this was an easy concept.

They're not really the issue now are they? It's not about them being defensive or seeking the support of those who are sympathetic to the problem...if they're so detached from it they can't see or experiance it on their own...they never will. They'll never understand it 100%...and in this case you really need to experiance it regularly and with some audacity to see why such a "generalization" is formed. It's not about appealing to these people and making them comfortable about it. They're simply not an important factor in it...as I said above the question was is this notion a myth to those of the majority...

[Tequila Zaire]

There are always bad apples inthe bunch, having said that I live in northern VA and we are having hispanic gang problems. HISPANIC gang problems, so it is profiling, because there is a certain profile for a MS member and I dont really care. We also have day laborers, many day laborers, and guess what they're all hispanic, (whoops did i just make a generalization, lets be pc, i suppose their could be white and black day laborers as well) so if a cop stops a rundown piece of shit car full of hispanics to check for IDs or whatever else thats their business. But saying cops are only profiling one ethnic group is bs because they would be fired, departments keep track of the people police officers stop, believe me and the departments dont want to be know as racist.

Can't say I buy into that much...if at all. I think each police department has a certain set of images they want different parts of society to see and know...one for those in power, one for the social majority, one for the social minority, and one for those they see as eternal criminals.

Cops pull people over, thats what they do, but they dont pull you over for no reason, youve got to break the law in some way. No seatbelt, no turn signal, if a cop wants to pull a car over they will find a reason believe me.

That I know not to be true...not that they don't form a "reason" but at least in my experiances it's after the fact or on the fly in some cases if a certain profile catches their eyes...or in the cases I've been involved in...simple harassment. The notion that they "don't pull you over for no reason" is simply not true in my eyes...and again due to past experiances probably never will be.

I plan on becoming an officer of the law, and guess what, im going to be out there looking for crimes and criminals, and im going to pull over hispanics, and blacks, and whites, because i will be looking for trouble. Thats how it goes. Maybe some of you have dealt with cops giving you a hard time, sometimes it wasnt justified i imagine. But these men and women are given sidearms for a reason. Because some prick they pull over for speeding, will pull a gun on them and try to kill them. For fucking speeding tickets, so sorry if right away theyre not all giggles and smiles when they approach your car because they dont know you or what youre capable of. Im not looking for a fight here, im just trying to say something for the other side.

Well aware of that and I can't say I shed a tear for that...but once the cops see everyone as a potential killer it may be time to rethink the base principles of a profession cause THAT is not protecting the people that's guilty till proven innocent and given where in the age of shoot first ask questions later...it's kinda sick to see cops subscribe to that. Happened not long back where a swarm of guys shot up a dude in compton cause they THOUGHT he had a gun...

Those are not cops in my eyes...they're stormtroopers and killing squads. I'll be god damned if I'm to see shit like that as heroic...let alone as protection.

It's becoming so the odds of serious injury from a criminal and cop are on the same level...that's a bit of an uncomfortable reality.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

If it is a yes or no question then I would have to say that the idea that all or most cops are racist is a myth. There are still tons of racists cops and even departments that openly exercise racist policies, but the majority? Although I have lived in a limited number of city, some where open racism is a lot more socially acceptable, I have seen too many cops motivated by other factors than race. The fact that there are a large number of racist cops does not speak of the majority. The cops that don't shoot people usually don't make the news.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Maybe some of you have dealt with cops giving you a hard time, sometimes it wasnt justified i imagine. But these men and women are given sidearms for a reason. Because some prick they pull over for speeding, will pull a gun on them and try to kill them. For fucking speeding tickets, so sorry if right away theyre not all giggles and smiles when they approach your car because they dont know you or what youre capable of. Im not looking for a fight here, im just trying to say something for the other side.

Giving me a hard time is one thing. Hiting me or otherwise physically abusing me because they know I have no witnesses or recourse is another entirely. When people talk about being harrassed by cops they aren't always talking about the cop not saying please and thank you. And what I have dealt with is on the lighter end.

[Trotter]

[QUOTE=Tequila Zaire
It's becoming so the odds of serious injury from a criminal and cop are on the same level...that's a bit of an uncomfortable reality.[/QUOTE]

That's just not true. Saying that the chance of a police officer injuring you is the same as a criminal is not logical. Are you saying that a mugger and a police officer stoping to ask you for your drivers license is on the same level? because it certainly is not. A criminal has no recourse or reason to restrain themselves with a victim. Police officers have to show restraint, no matter what you say. That's why they're given mace and tasers and nightsticks, because they cant go shooting everyone everytime they encounter the public. There are stories of cops shooting people that did not have guns, but guess what, they had some reason to pull their firearm and decide that they would open fire. You dont just stand there and get shot, it doesnt happen. You make a split second decision, you dont wait for someone to start shooting at you first, nobody would in that situation, i dont care what anyone says about that. A second to react, a lifetime to reflect. Sometimes the officers made the wrong choice, but dont tell me that there are departments out there filled with cops who shoot up the neighborhooods, that idea is a joke. Yes there have been incidents such as new york when an immigrant was brought to the station and recieved a broomhandle up his rectum. That doesnt mean the NYPD is racist. Or should i use the same logic and call all muslims terrorists? I dont think so.

[Morning Glory]

I have never made a public statement either pro or con any actual current political policies and it is against Blue Blood organization policy for me to do so.

I don't think it violates Blue Blood policy for me to say that I oppose racism in all forms, whether friendly or hostile.

let me back up a minute here to adress this one.
I understand your position amelia. all I'm asking is that you consider whether or not the resources of the government are being used in the best way. I don't think doing that is a declaration for or against a particular party or administration, being that it IS our tax dollars that fund it and I think it's our obligation to think about it, if not openly have a say about it.

as far as the position of being opposed to racism, or should I say more appropriatly refusing to consider anything in terms of race that really only works on the basis that there is no present racial inequalities and divisions; that we can look at race objectively. Since that is not the way that it is, I think the reality is that we have to look at race as an issue, unfortunetly, to resolve that.

[Amelia G]

let me back up a minute here to adress this one.
I understand your position amelia. all I'm asking is that you consider whether or not the resources of the government are being used in the best way. I don't think doing that is a declaration for or against a particular party or administration, being that it IS our tax dollars that fund it and I think it's our obligation to think about it, if not openly have a say about it.

as far as the position of being opposed to racism, or should I say more appropriatly refusing to consider anything in terms of race that really only works on the basis that there is no present racial inequalities and divisions; that we can look at race objectively. Since that is not the way that it is, I think the reality is that we have to look at race as an issue, unfortunetly, to resolve that.

I understand that there are good people who think friendly racism is okay. I was raised without the notion that there were differences between the races and I think I am a better person for it. I think all children should be raised that way. The sooner we start raising our children that way, the better our society will be for it.

If a person doesn't want to be discriminated against, then they need to refuse to accept to be discriminated for. It is just as racist to say "that guy is eskimo, let's pick on him" as it is to say "that guy is eskimo, let's give him a special advantage." People should earn the way they are treated, not have it decided on the basis of skin color or some other absurd data point.

[Morning Glory]

once again the problem is that not everyone sees it that way. you simply can't say hey, a persons race is not a factor when you have guys in white sheets burning crosses on people's lawns and cops beating people in certain neighborhoods with thier clubs. I just don't see how trying to stop racism and injustice is the same as "giving a handout". it's not a "free ride" to make it so that people who don't have it get the freedom that they deserve.

[Vitorro]

the street I grew up on was a majority of African American, Hispanic and My family being the lone Caaucasians on the whole block. I grew up not knowing what racism was, cause I played with the kids up and down the street, just knowing they were kids like Me. I live in a park that has mostly Hispanic kids, but in the whole town, there are very few African Americans. I have taught to the best of My ability not to think of color or race, but that people are just people, maybe from another land, but they are no different than you or Me. then I have them go to a school , two years ago, taught kids based on the factor of class, if they had money, or fame, (as I live in a community that has a "strip" of Music shows and theatres, all cuntry music uggghhh) so they learned a bit of racism there.

I think its not just parents that need to help teach the kids today equality of not just race, but social class, but for schools, and publllic offices to not pratice the lessons of yesterday , and treat each kid, and teach them, equally, and not based on their ethnic backgrounds, and how much wealth their families have.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Yes there have been incidents such as new york when an immigrant was brought to the station and recieved a broomhandle up his rectum. That doesnt mean the NYPD is racist. Or should i use the same logic and call all muslims terrorists? I dont think so.

The reason the departments get blamed for this instead of the individuals is because, unlike muslims, there is a clear chain of command and effect. There is supposed to be a system in place to keep these kinds of things from happening and it takes a good amount of people looking the other way for someone to think they can get away with things like this. I mean, I would assume that if I ***** a guy with a broomhandle, someone would take exception to it and report it to the authorities. These guys did not assume that so you have to ask why.

And seriously, ask someone from Rampart if they think there are departments with cops who would shoot up the neighborhood. The answer is likely to be distressing.

When an officer was involved in a shooting and the officer had a hit, he would get a plaque that had the aces and eights in it, a patch, and some other memorabilia.

Detective Mike Hohan
L.A.P.D. Detective, principal investigator on the Rampart Corruption Task Force

[Morning Glory]

we don't have to teach kids anything. they don't know that there is such a thing as race and class, because in reality there isn't. the only reason these things exist is because they have been taught in the first place. we need to unlearn them. all people are born free, but how far does that freedom get you when five minutes later you are put in a ghetto? where's your freedom when a man with a gun and a book of rules get's to tell you that you have to do what he says, but that if you don't agree, then not only do you still have to do what he says, but he doesn't have to do what you say just because you think it's right or wrong. what you think or feel doesn't matter. how's that for equality?
when no one has authority over any other person but themselves, and you really have the freedom to live without having to struggle and scrape for it, when no one owns one single inch of the ground, but everyone shares it and has responsibility for each other- that's how people were made equal at the begining of time, and that's the only way that they can be free.

[karyn]

once again the problem is that not everyone sees it that way. you simply can't say hey, a persons race is not a factor when you have guys in white sheets burning crosses on people's lawns and cops beating people in certain neighborhoods with thier clubs. I just don't see how trying to stop racism and injustice is the same as "giving a handout". it's not a "free ride" to make it so that people who don't have it get the freedom that they deserve.

you were the one talking about reparations. what are those except freebies to people who whine because their grandparents had it hard.

[Morning Glory]

It's pretty clear what it is. just because you lack any compassion toward suffering and injustice, please don't condescend to me. but in the spirt of fairness, if you should ever be beaten up by policemen and live on a street where you are shot at, then you can feel to refrain from "whining" about it.