We're working on it damn it.

[Dark Z]

Ya know, I hate seeing people get blamed for shit when they're doing an excellent job under the circumstances.


People are all like "Why Isn't the South Fixed, it's been Five whole days.

wow, five whole days... should we even consider giveing them a sixth?

Look at it this way. the WTC was a single Building (It was several towers on a single building foundation), and it's destruction closed down NYC for a week. And some sections of the city were closed off for nearly a month and that's with all the Communications (except some Cell Phones) and transportation systems (Air, Land, Sea, rail) except for the PATH trains, still working.

In New Orleans, the whole city's shot to Hell, not to mention the three states surrounding it.


There's NOTHING. The Bridges across the Mississippi River are all shot to shit. and the surface roads that aren't impassible due to the flooding need to be cleared of debreis. A fully loaded Tractor Trailer can't normally do Off-roading in the Mud, and when there are entire HOUSES in the middle of the street, it kinda stops up the flow of trucks.

Now there are some paths that are being opened faster than others, but those are mostly towards the west of the city.

Northcom sent out a whole fleet (Carriers, LPDs, LHDs, and the like)from Norfolk as soon as the proper supplies were loaded, but it'll take a day or so from the fleet to get there.

Corps of Engineers had been and still is using a large amount of the surface assets to try and shore up the Levy breaks, and ALSO the other weakend spots that haven't broken yet. (Can't ignore the levys, as using that gear for rescue could result in more people dying.)

Now, what about other land based approaches? well, that requires army National Guard ENBNs (Engineering Batallions). Just so you know, during an emergency rush job, My younger Brother and Sister's unit took 5 Days to prepare all of their gear for transit on HETS and HEMTTs

Now here's a list of ALL the Current US Army Engineering Batallions

Now the only ones with training and the heavy equipment to do the heavy lifting are the ones with (CBT) (HVY) after their designation.

and Keep in mind that roughly a Quarter are Currently Deployed, and a Quarter are undeployable for 1 year. (and some of them are homebased in Germany and South Korea... and too far away) so figure that less than half of those units are deployable..... and only the ones that are National Guard Units can be called up or put on standby for Con-US Operations with any decent speed. (Due to Posse Comitatus)

Now, there are specially designed Fast-deployable engineering units. (82nd Airborne has an amazing unit that can deploy within 36 Hours anywhere in the world... However There are only 2 Engineering Batallions in the US Army that are that fast, and they are NOT Heavy Engiineering. Their Speed comes from the fact that all their gear is light and fast, but not strong.)

With every day that passes, More and larger units are on the way.

But I mean Even the Airports are busted to hell, with runways torn up. no lights for approach or instrument landing, on the few useable strips, you can only send in your best pilots& planes because if you send in some commercial transport with some contract employee, and he crashes and destroys one of the few remaining transport systems, NO would be that much further up shit creek.

So the few aircraft that can handle landing on shitty runways undercombat conditions are being used. Unfortunately, when they're getting to Louie Armstrong Intl. they've found that there's no way to unload their cargo onto any surface transportation, so until an ENBN can get in there with the material needed to repair the key parts of an airport, it's going to stay limited.

Then there're the Helicopters? why not fly them non stop? well there's not enough fuel to do that. Once the Naval Fleet gets there, along with a fleet oiler full of Aviation fuel, there won't be a problem with doing that, but right now, it's not feaseable.

Here's the Deal. FEMA exists to supplement and liase with the State and Local EMAs. But with New Orleans shot to shit, all the local supplies are gone, and FEMA was left at square 1. Then they tried to use volunteer civilians with boats to try and rescue people.... until random jackasses started hijacking and shooting at Civilians.

After that, New Orleans was basically put off limits to Non-Military (Unarmed) Assistance.


I mean, COME ON. be reasonable. I'm not saying that the Govt's not screwing up, because they probably are in so many ways, it's just terrible, But every soldier and Officer I know that's being deployed is doing their best. I know linement that left for the south to fix the electric, and Cops that are getting their gear ready for a national guard deployment to the south.

[cheinara wraithwalker]

But every soldier and Officer I know that's being deployed is doing their best.

Seriously.

[KilLAtomiK]

i wonder where theyl have Mardi Gras next year

[Morning Glory]

when you don't have any food/ clean water, and you require constant medical attention and you're being told that if you steal anything you'll be shot... yeah ONE day is too little too late. it's been five.

[Kidthorazine]

theres only so much thats humanly possible considering the ammount of forces that are overseas and the fact that pretty much all land routes into the city are completely blocked and boats can only move so fast i agree that more air support should be brought in but then again how many suitable places are available and close enough to make a difference i meqan choppers can only fly so far and stay in the air for so long.

[malcolm]

when you don't have any food/ clean water, and you require constant medical attention and you're being told that if you steal anything you'll be shot... yeah ONE day is too little too late. it's been five.

Thats funny seeing as all the fottage ive seen so far on the news of people stealing stuff has been dumasses stealing fuckin tee vees and shit. how they gonna eat that?

[Morning Glory]

if you're not going to say anything intelligent then please don't open your mouth. (in this case, use your keyboard.) why don't you wait four years for your precious elections since you seem to care so much about it, and shut up till then, like you advocate everyone else to do.

[Kidthorazine]

if you're not going to say anything intelligent then please don't open your mouth. (in this case, use your keyboard.) why don't you wait four years for your precious elections since you seem to care so much about it, and shut up till then, like you advocate everyone else to do.

honestly if youve been paying any attention to the news youd realize that everyone is saying that the only people beeing shot at are the ones either a) stealing crap like TVs and shit or b) armed people shooting at helicopters, unarmed civillians, and relief workers. at this point there is so much bad crap going on that marshall law is pretty much necesarry i mean i really dont like it at all but in this case its probably for the best

[Morning Glory]

I don't see how that has any correlation with my original point. as a matter of fact you yourself said that only those people doing bad shit are getting shot at, so how does that help the people that aren't doing bad shit?

btw. the post you qouted wasn't directed at you.

[malcolm]

if you're not going to say anything intelligent then please don't open your mouth. (in this case, use your keyboard.) why don't you wait four years for your precious elections since you seem to care so much about it, and shut up till then, like you advocate everyone else to do.

okay well why dont you lead by example first ya jack ass?

[malcolm]

oh im sorry-i forgot youre always the ynical guy who just likes to start stuff in topics-my bad. and yes,m elections are very important to me being as I served this fuckin country so lazy smart asses like you cna sit in your chair and make snide remarks all fuckin day.Love it or leave it baby But dont start shit about me exercising my right to vote because I made a point about something.

[malcolm]

sheesh look at me gettin off the handle like that when I just remembered how easy the ignore feature is.

[skintwisterman]

Ah, the speed speed speed western world comes running up to bite it's own ass again. America is so used to the tomorrow and the five minutes and American Invulnerability I don't think a lot of Americans can get their heads round the fact that New Orleans will never be the same.
They can fix it up. But the place is broken, and has lost so much. They'll try, but Gods, they can't wave a magic wand.
They can't do anything without volunteers, either.

[Morning Glory]

just ignore it everytime someone challenges you to actually back your shit up, eh?

I'm not the one that "starts" shit as you put it, I only ask that people actaully put in the effort to back up thier points.. do you even have one? so far all i've heard you say is that there are no health problems in new orleans, and that anyone who didn't vote for john kerry doesn't have the right to express thier oppinion.

[Dark Z]

anyone who didn't vote for john kerry doesn't have the right to express thier oppinion.

While I Obviously dispute that, and I could make an argument against it... But given the Anti-Bush Prejudice nature of that post, anything I say would probably be ignored.

(yay 1st ammendment? It's amazing how people always claim that republicans are out to take away other's rights... but never notice hypocracy)

The simple fact of the matter is that It's going to be months before I can say whether Bush Sucked or did an amazing job under the circumstances.

Until then I'd rather focus on what we do next.

[ForrestBlack]

Well, from an administration effectiveness perspective, I think it is becoming clear that putting FEMA under the office of homeland security may have been a bit of a mistake. The added bureaucracy was a large source of the response delay. I think that the war on terror has clearly been over prioritized when it comes to the safety and security of our people.

[Amelia G]

Dark Z, I think we have a very fine military. (Perhaps biased by the fact that one of the first bars I ever went to was an overseas Marine House.) I'm appalled that so few people are being given the task of doing so much, when we have plenty of military personnel. They just are not where America and Americans need them to be right now.

[Morning Glory]

I guess a lot of people accuse me of being cynical, but in reality i'm the highest uptomist. do I always focus on the negative? yeah, I usually do. that's because I support the postive wholeheartedly, and it goes without saying. there's nothing there to discuss. as George Bush said (and probibly the only thing I agree with him on) this effort is "unacceptible." if you save 50 people and 100 others die in a burning building, i'm going to say why the fuck did this happen? i'll be glad for the effort, but there is never going to be an acceptible compromise when it comes to people's lives. I'm always going to fight for those people, especially if no one else is willing to. the only thing that I care about is the total freedom of everyone. you say hey walmart gave a whole 15 million dollars? I say walmart only gave 15 million? they should give all thier money that they made this year. they could stack it in a pyramid and set it on fire infront of all the people that are going to freeze to death in america this winter. it's worth a hell of a lot more there than it is in any bank.

[cheinara wraithwalker]

There's a bunch of military on the way, it's just that they couldn't do anything until they were told to.

Btw, the Harry S. Truman will be in position tomorrow to start pumping water out, as well as creating fresh water from sea water (at a nice round figure of 600,000 gallons a day.)

[Tequila Zaire]

Well, from an administration effectiveness perspective, I think it is becoming clear that putting FEMA under the office of homeland security may have been a bit of a mistake. The added bureaucracy was a large source of the response delay. I think that the war on terror has clearly been over prioritized when it comes to the safety and security of our people.

Ain't that the damn truth...The Office of Homeland Security was a nice idea to keep agencies that needed to be in contact with one another under the same umbrella but as you said it added way too much red tape to the response time...at best they can rethink deployment strategies but you simply can't have first response organizations shackled down by the heiarchy that comes with putting everything under one roof.

[Tequila Zaire]

Dark Z, I think we have a very fine military. (Perhaps biased by the fact that one of the first bars I ever went to was an overseas Marine House.) I'm appalled that so few people are being given the task of doing so much, when we have plenty of military personnel. They just are not where America and Americans need them to be right now.

I'd be nice if units deployed in Germany and S.Korea could be used for this situation at the very least. Granted those areas are valued support sites and in the case of S.Korea still a potential flashpoint...but their is little point in keeping them on call for a potnetial conflict when their is already a disaster that needs them...fast. "House to house" search is still needed along with so much else...

I just hope the logistics and leadership needed to organize an effective strategy to deal with the aftermath to this storm get done as quick as can be.

[Dark Z]

Well, from an administration effectiveness perspective, I think it is becoming clear that putting FEMA under the office of homeland security may have been a bit of a mistake. The added bureaucracy was a large source of the response delay. I think that the war on terror has clearly been over prioritized when it comes to the safety and security of our people.

Hmmm... That's one of those areas that I simply don't know.

I mean I know that ICE/CBP is functioning alot better now that it and the Coast Guard are in the same department... But FEMA?

I don't really know. On the one hand, Homeland Security is incorporated into NORTHCOM's direct command structure, so that should speed the use of military assets during emergency suituations... But then again at the same time, Having FEMA as a part of any larger department means that there's more bureaucracy, and multiple commanders trying to run things....

Hmmm..... Yeah, the more I think about it, FEMA probably should be a seperate agency... But then again, when there's not a disaster, FEMA Justifies it's budget/ staffing requirements with Emergency Training of local governments, and that tends to be more along the lines of Homeland Security.....

For me that one could go either way. I need to get more data before I can take a position/make a recomendation on that issue.

[ForrestBlack]

Hmmm..... Yeah, the more I think about it, FEMA probably should be a seperate agency... But then again, when there's not a disaster, FEMA Justifies it's budget/ staffing requirements with Emergency Training of local governments, and that tends to be more along the lines of Homeland Security.....

Yeah, pre 9/11 they were an independent agency and by all reports, they were far more efficient. It's possible that they just are not used to working within the new structure, but if folks are going to point to certain request forms/channels not being done properly as the root of the delay in assistance, I think it's obvious that there may be some bottlenecks to be addressed.

[Mr Karl]

Hate to say it but what can you expect when a committee is in charge, still considering the mess they are doing a pretty good job