imigration policy

[BloodredProject2402]

ya or neigh for the new imigration policy for the illegials to go back to mexico?

[Pull~My~Hair]

im not 100% clear on the policy , i really need to read up on it a bit.
But I do know that right now we have some real issues to deal with at home, any new laws being passed should be to protect and help us get our shit together. we shouldnt be bringing more people into this sinking ship right now.

[Mr Karl]

I live in Canada so the only ones who can benefit from our system is the immigrants and all I can say is all the power to them, I have heard that we'll be needing a passport to get into the US soon

[BloodredProject2402]

Canada will?

[Mirren]

Check it;

U.S. Will Tighten Passport Rules
Canada, Mexico Borders to Be Affected by 2008

By John Mintz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 6, 2005; Page A01

Millions of Americans will be required to show passports when they reenter the United States from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean by 2008 under new rules announced yesterday by the State and Homeland Security departments.

The new policy, designed to thwart terrorists from exploiting the relative ease of travel in North America, means that Americans who lack U.S. passports will have to obtain them to travel between the United States and neighboring nations. It also will require Mexicans and Canadians to present either passports or another official document to enter this country, with details to be determined. Currently, U.S. citizens in most cases need to show only driver's licenses to reenter this country from Mexico and Canada, though officials said that since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, some officials at border crossings at times have asked for additional documents.

"We're asking people to think of travel in and out of the U.S. [in this hemisphere] in the same way they would travel to and from Europe," said Elaine K. Dezenski, deputy assistant secretary for border and transportation security at the Department of Homeland Security.

Some travel industry executives predicted that the initiative could lead to long lines for foreigners entering this country and could discourage U.S. youngsters from traveling on school trips, or spontaneously, to Canada and Mexico. Much smaller percentages of young people have passports than older people do, industry officials said.

An increasing amount of travel planning is being done only days or weeks before a vacation begins because of Americans' harried lifestyles, and the new rules could discourage U.S. citizens without passports from taking quick jaunts to Canada and Mexico, tourism officials said.

"For the last-minute traveler, this could be a problem," said Hank Phillips, president of the National Tour Association, which represents the tourism industry. "We're concerned about this, but we're taking a wait-and-see attitude, because security is a top priority."

Michael Palmer, executive director of the Student & Youth Travel Association, which represents tour operators, said yesterday that the new rules also could "drastically" reduce the number of Mexican and Canadian students who visit the United States.

"I can see the student travel business [from Canada into the United States] almost drying up," said Doug Ellison, who owns a large youth travel firm outside Ontario. The regulations also will discourage Canadian cross-border shoppers, he said. "If you don't want us to come, you're giving us a good reason not to," he said.

The changes, to be phased in over the next three years, were mandated by the intelligence reform law approved last December and have been expected for months.

Sixty million Americans have U.S. passports, and officials expect to issue 10 million more this year. More citizens are obtaining passports every year because of the perceived desirability of having citizenship documents, said Maura Harty, assistant secretary of state for consular affairs.

The new policy was needed to tighten security for travelers around the Western Hemisphere in part because of heightened concern that terrorists could smuggle equipment or operatives into the United States from neighboring countries, officials said. U.S. officials also want to reduce their reliance on state driver's licenses because of the ease of obtaining fraudulent licenses.

State and Homeland Security officials are distributing cards to U.S. and foreign travelers in this hemisphere, warning that "all travelers to and from the Americas, the Caribbean and Bermuda will soon be required to have a passport or other accepted document that establishes the bearer's identity and nationality to enter or reenter the United States."

The rule's first phase will go into effect Dec. 31, 2005, requiring all U.S. citizens traveling by air or sea to or from the Caribbean, as well as Central and South America, to have passports. The next phase, which will apply these rules to all air and sea travel to or from Mexico and Canada, will begin a year later.

The last phase, which will affect the most people by far, will take effect on Dec. 31, 2007, and will apply the requirement to all air, sea and land border crossings with Mexico and Canada.

Phillips of the National Tour Association predicted long lines at land border crossings in the first months after that, however thorough the planning, because the vast majority of the 1.1 million people entering the United States every day arrive by land.

U.S. officials said they will decide later whether to accept as valid entry documents a number of types of official papers used by some Mexicans and Canadians who cross into this country frequently. Among these are the border crossing card and the Secure Electronic Network for Travelers Rapid Inspection (SENTRI) card, given to some Mexicans; and other papers given to some Canadians under the Free and Secure Trade (FAST) and Nexus frequent-visitor programs.

[BloodredProject2402]

wow, thats a mouth full

[bohoki]

i thnk they ought to round them up at the rallys when are you ever going to get a chance like that send in the national guard i say

unlicenced/uninsured drivers should have a harsher penalty (30 days or $10,000 fine)
they should require a drivers licence to buy gasoline
you should not be able to buy a car without a drivers licence
all snn numbers should be verified with a thumbprint


a berlin type wall should not be built the national guard should patrol random areas on the boarder for training purposes come on people its in the job description and the job title "national guard" i dont expect them to patrol crosswalks or fight overseas they are for here in this country

i hate to sound like bill oriley but logic would dictate if you reward the rulebreakers and punish the rulefollowers you will end up with more and more rulebreakers

i think we should mirror the country of origins laws regarding births of foreign visitors maybe even the same punisments for unlawful entry

[Morning Glory]

ok, here's the new policy. if you are middle eastern and you hate our freedom, then we are going to put you in jail. if you are mexican and you love our freedom, then we are going to put you in jail. if you are black, we aren't going to put you in jail, we're just going to put you in the path of a hurricane and then not do anything to help you.

we allready put people in jail for being asain once, and we've been putting people in jail for being black for the last 150 years. so I guess they get off the hook.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

So we are sending all the illegals back to Mexico? I didn't read that part of the bill. I assumed the goal was back to the country they came from, but Mexico is closer so that does make some sense.

And a wall accrossed the border is a brilliant idea. I mean look at what it did for Berlin.

Undocumented aliens are a scapegoat, not the problem. Or schools are not taxed out because we have illegals in them, but because we do not put any real money or energy into the schools themselves. Our emergancy rooms are not overcrowded because of illegals, but because more than half this country doesn't have medical insurance. Crime is not rampant because of immigrants, wages are not low because of immigrants, immigrants did not kill punk rock, they did not take your jobs, they did not steal your car.

Oh, and the terrorists... yeah.

If congress really wanted to slow down illegal immigration the first thing they would do is hit the people who use illegal labor hard. It is not a felony to hire undocumented workers, just to be one. That is one thing all four versions of the law share. If congress really wanted to fix our schools they would spend time on laws to fix our schools. But illegal alien is a great buzzword. Protect our borders is a killer sound bite. And it really does take our attention away from things like corruption and that war thing doesn't it?

Welcome to this year's election swindle, 'protect our borders'. From the makers of 'defending marraige' and 'protecting our children' (from video games and rock and roll).

[Toe Cutter]

I live in Canada so the only ones who can benefit from our system is the immigrants and all I can say is all the power to them, I have heard that we'll be needing a passport to get into the US soon

I want to get a fake Canadian ID.

[HempKnight]

I live in Canada so the only ones who can benefit from our system is the immigrants and all I can say is all the power to them, I have heard that we'll be needing a passport to get into the US soon

Hell, we already do.... not that
it's a 'requirement'... but trying
to get into BC without one was
a nightmare... not to mention
a 2 hour delay while IDs were
checked.

I knew I should have kept my
dual citizenship status current.

[hewhoisagod]

Some countries in Europe, your parents have to be European for you to be. So like if your parents are african or middle eastern and you're born in France, you can be deported to your parents' place of birth. Even though technically you're a French national.

[bohoki]

ok, here's the new policy. if you are middle eastern and you hate our freedom, then we are going to put you in jail. if you are mexican and you love our freedom, then we are going to put you in jail. if you are black, we aren't going to put you in jail, we're just going to put you in the path of a hurricane and then not do anything to help you.

we allready put people in jail for being asain once, and we've been putting people in jail for being black for the last 150 years. so I guess they get off the hook.

that is some of the most ignorant sputum i've read here in a while

to think the people in neworleans were forced to live there mistakes were made but the jump to intent is disgusting,freedom lovin mexicans are not jailed only ones who break the rules that apply to all,and to the middleeasterners they are only arested because they seem to want to brag about things they may or may not have done, besides most of that is out of the boarders of the us so are under the juristictions of the hosting countries and only have to comply with their rules and regulations

only jail those who are the true criminals register people who are unlawful entrants send then to their country of origin and if found unlawfully entered in this country again then enact felony punishments

[BloodredProject2402]

wow, im not being called ignorant for once in a thread, haha

[Toe Cutter]

wow, im not being called ignorant for once in a thread, haha

I think it's ignorant of you to assume it won't happen.

[BloodredProject2402]

haha, funny funny....what wont happen??

[bohoki]

i think we all need to answer the question

if france was on the southern border and people were hopping fences to get here would we be making the same fuss?

[Morning Glory]

assuming that you're an american... what did you do to earn your rights in this country? probably jack shit. you happened to be born in a hospital on one side of a line, and the people that you call criminals commited the "crime" of happening to be born on the other side of that line. my point is that most of us did absolutly nothing to become citzens and had to work a lot less then the people we think have no right to the same privaledges as us. I think that's a little bit hypocritical. If we make the same laws for citzenship to apply to everyone, then we can talk about fairness and people that don't have a right to be here. and while we are getting down to the bottom line here, every white person on this continent has no right to be here by any justification, especially our own laws, because they all illegally tresspassed on the land that the native americans had the rights to by way of being born here for ten thousand years.

[Morning Glory]

that is some of the most ignorant sputum i've read here in a while

to think the people in neworleans were forced to live there mistakes were made but the jump to intent is disgusting,freedom lovin mexicans are not jailed only ones who break the rules that apply to all,and to the middleeasterners they are only arested because they seem to want to brag about things they may or may not have done, besides most of that is out of the boarders of the us so are under the juristictions of the hosting countries and only have to comply with their rules and regulations

only jail those who are the true criminals register people who are unlawful entrants send then to their country of origin and if found unlawfully entered in this country again then enact felony punishments

why don't you go to new orleans (or any ghetto in the country, for that matter) and ask them if they want to be there. then ask them how it was that they came to be there. then ask yourself if you still think that it wasn't a matter of force.

as I stated before, the rules of citzenship are not the same for everyone. freedom loving mexicans are not jailed? have you been to mexico lately? basically freedom loving mexicans ARE jailed if they live in mexico and try to do anything about it. If they are poor and don't make any money, IE: 99% of mexicans, and they can't afford to buy freedom here, then they are jailed. If they had that money, chances are they are one of the 3% rich people in mexico that live just as luxuriously as the welathy here and have no desire to want to come to the US.

pretty much the majority of middle easterners that we have imprisoned where picked up by random sweeps and held for a period of time without charges.

you think the US follows domestic law of other countries? jeez, now whose being ignorant. I'm not even going to comment on that one.

[BloodredProject2402]

well, i dont know about anyone else but i see myself as equal to any other human....mexican, black, asian (though the french do tend to be on the rock bottom of the list for all the shit they did in world war 2)anyways i dont care....and i do think we should go through the same process everyone else does to get into this country.....and its not the problem i have with the ones over here that are over here legally.....its the ones that are here illegally

[Nudemuse]

why don't you go to new orleans (or any ghetto in the country, for that matter) and ask them if they want to be there. then ask them how it was that they came to be there. then ask yourself if you still think that it wasn't a matter of force.

Well said.

as I stated before, the rules of citzenship are not the same for everyone. freedom loving mexicans are not jailed? have you been to mexico lately? basically freedom loving mexicans ARE jailed if they live in mexico and try to do anything about it. If they are poor and don't make any money, IE: 99% of mexicans, and they can't afford to buy freedom here, then they are jailed. If they had that money, chances are they are one of the 3% rich people in mexico that live just as luxuriously as the welathy here and have no desire to want to come to the US.

That is very true. The improvrished who come to this country cannot afford to buy their "freedom" and "right to be here". Our immigration policies are already heavily biased.

pretty much the majority of middle easterners that we have imprisoned where picked up by random sweeps and held for a period of time without charges.

Aside from the use of the collective "middle easterners" to denote an enormous range of peoples (personal thing, that's a whole other thread), MG is very correct here. I have personally seen people who weren't even of Middle Eastern descent being harassed, some jailed, watched and followed because they looked the part. To think that isn't or has stopped going on is dangerously complacent behaviour.

[Pull~My~Hair]

although I feel for people stuck in this situation, i really believe that you should be an american citizen to work in america, or at least have a work visa
Sneaking into another country and using there resources and jobs isnt okay, if you love America so much then go the legal way about coming in here, if you love America than be an american, NOT an illegal alien, seriously.
I think weve been leniant for a long time, in oregon you have to take 2 semesters of spanish to graduate highschool but you dont have to know english, there are SPECIAL classes with fewer students for people who dont speak english, all thre way through highschool, im sorry but thats crap the classrooms are so over crowded but people who arent american citizens get special rights in the education/health systems. I kinda feel like weve been fucking ourselves over the last ten years by allowing this to happen.
Im by no means a racist person, but I dont like feeling like I am a minority when I have lived here my whole life

[Mr Karl]

Hell, we already do.... not that
it's a 'requirement'... but trying
to get into BC without one was
a nightmare... not to mention
a 2 hour delay while IDs were
checked.

I knew I should have kept my
dual citizenship status current.

Ah don't let it bother you, sometimes those BC people get a little paranoid from all that killer wacky tababky they smoke

[Shivvenfist]

So we are sending all the illegals back to Mexico? I didn't read that part of the bill. I assumed the goal was back to the country they came from, but Mexico is closer so that does make some sense.

And a wall accrossed the border is a brilliant idea. I mean look at what it did for Berlin.

Undocumented aliens are a scapegoat, not the problem. Or schools are not taxed out because we have illegals in them, but because we do not put any real money or energy into the schools themselves. Our emergancy rooms are not overcrowded because of illegals, but because more than half this country doesn't have medical insurance. Crime is not rampant because of immigrants, wages are not low because of immigrants, immigrants did not kill punk rock, they did not take your jobs, they did not steal your car.

Oh, and the terrorists... yeah.

If congress really wanted to slow down illegal immigration the first thing they would do is hit the people who use illegal labor hard. It is not a felony to hire undocumented workers, just to be one. That is one thing all four versions of the law share. If congress really wanted to fix our schools they would spend time on laws to fix our schools. But illegal alien is a great buzzword. Protect our borders is a killer sound bite. And it really does take our attention away from things like corruption and that war thing doesn't it?

Welcome to this year's election swindle, 'protect our borders'. From the makers of 'defending marraige' and 'protecting our children' (from video games and rock and roll).

That is one of the most blatant wads of bullshit I have ever heard in my life.

They have BEEN sending the sons of bitches 'back to mexico', every fucking day, since before you were born. I live in Texas. I have lived on the border, and know many people who do. They take the fucking beings, and, literally, toss them back over there, and the motherfuckers come RIGHT BACK ACROSS, most times in less than 24 hours.

This entire media story is not NEW. It's a fucking circle jerk for the ego's on the microphones.

Buncha fucking bullshit.

Fuck all that, shoot them. One less one to keep track of.

[Morning Glory]

eat a dick, nazi scum

[HempKnight]

Ah don't let it bother you, sometimes those BC people get a little paranoid from all that killer wacky tababky they smoke

I KNOW...
that's the exact
reason why we
were going

Have to give it up
for the lax attitudes
of years past...
getting 'caught'
and the reply was
to simply smoke it
all up before crossing
back into the U.S.

[BloodredProject2402]

im not sure where you live but i, too, am from texas and i am also getting fucking tired of them coming right over the border......if you want to come to america, get the credentials needed and the i dont have a problem with it, i will say that the shooting statement went a little far

[Flip]

That is one of the most blatant wads of bullshit I have ever heard in my life.

They have BEEN sending the sons of bitches 'back to mexico', every fucking day, since before you were born. I live in Texas. I have lived on the border, and know many people who do. They take the fucking beings, and, literally, toss them back over there, and the motherfuckers come RIGHT BACK ACROSS, most times in less than 24 hours.

This entire media story is not NEW. It's a fucking circle jerk for the ego's on the microphones.

Buncha fucking bullshit.

Fuck all that, shoot them. One less one to keep track of.

rather protective of your stolen land arnt you :\

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

That is one of the most blatant wads of bullshit I have ever heard in my life.

They have BEEN sending the sons of bitches 'back to mexico', every fucking day, since before you were born. I live in Texas. I have lived on the border, and know many people who do. They take the fucking beings, and, literally, toss them back over there, and the motherfuckers come RIGHT BACK ACROSS, most times in less than 24 hours.

This entire media story is not NEW. It's a fucking circle jerk for the ego's on the microphones.

Buncha fucking bullshit.

Fuck all that, shoot them. One less one to keep track of.

So what you are saying is that before I was born (which was quite some time ago) people have crossed the border, get tossed back and come back again. So this makes what I said bullshit how?

I said on another post that the most important rule to live by is to never become so stuck to a plan you can't ditch it when it isn't working. This plan isn't working. In my book this means it is time for a new plan.

But what do I know, I don't like in Texas.

[Pull~My~Hair]

rather protective of your stolen land arnt you :\

[BloodredProject2402]

oh shit, hope jax doesnt look into this thread....she'll have a field day

[bohoki]

every country is on stolen land i guess alaska was paid for but all we did was to buy stolen property

besides i'm sure the rightful owners are all dead and who knows what the statute of limitation is on stolen property

you got to protect your land or other theives will take it

laws should be applied to all equally

its a bit unfair globaly that mexico is right next to us i'm sure many african countries would love to be in the same position on the globe

[Jax]

oh shit, hope jax doesnt look into this thread....she'll have a field day

Too late, hahahaha. I have quite a mouthful to say.

[BloodredProject2402]

haha, o shit, here we go!

[Jax]

What another touchy subject thats bound to get ugly (as already has...eat shit, nazi scum? MG I expected more out of you.)

Being in AZ for so long has really persuaded my opinion on immigration.

I cant stand illegals. Im sick and tired of Spanish being a requirement to graduate school. Im sick of jobs saying that you much be spanish bilingual to get the job. Im sick of seeing that you get paid 2 dollars less an hour if you dont speak spanish compared to someone who does with less qualifications for the job except that one fact. Im sick of seeing high costs of living and low wages because they come over here illegally and work for practically nothing. Im sick of seeing illegals get healthcare and govt assistant faster than americans. Them and their multiple kids standing in line to receive their CASH assistance/Food stamps from DES buying new clothes and jewelry with that 'much needed money' while americans have to go to food banks to eat for the week. Thank god for charitable organizations. Places with a high concentration of illegals have the highest crime rates and low job markets. Phoenix is one example of that.

Im all for sending illegals back to their own countries. I support the minute men. Does that make me a Nazi scum fuck? Fuck you if you think so.

[Morning Glory]

What another touchy subject thats bound to get ugly (as already has...eat shit, nazi scum? MG I expected more out of you.)

Im all for sending illegals back to their own countries. I support the minute men. Does that make me a Nazi scum fuck? Fuck you if you think so.

I don't think that it's fair to put the blame on me for making things turn ugly. That was in response to the several very well-written and intelligent posts that were made, and all but ignored by the rest of this community and other individuals that went on spouting thier parictular POV under the argument: that's what I think, and it's right just because I say so.

as far as supporting the minuteman go, that's another subject. I felt that it did more harm then good, and I guess most people felt that way too, being that the majority of those minutmen ultimatley gave up and went home not having accomplished anything.

Now back to the subject at hand... Not supporting illegal immigration doesn't make you a nazi, far from it. You're entitled to that. All of your reasons that you cited are valid and offer something to think about. On the other hand, advocating the murder of a vast number of people simply based on thier ethnicity, yeah I'd say that does qualify as nazi thinking.

[Morning Glory]

here's a point in fact, I haven't heard anyone on here debate the border policy of the US and canada. In many places there isn't even a fence, people can simply walk accross the border. so why aren't we so up in arms about that?

[bohoki]

here's a point in fact, I haven't heard anyone on here debate the border policy of the US and canada. In many places there isn't even a fence, people can simply walk accross the border. so why aren't we so up in arms about that?

because they are very stealth about it and if a bunch of canuks came down here saying its aboot time we change the US marching and chanting i would be have equal feelings

On the other hand, advocating the murder of a vast number of people simply based on thier ethnicity, yeah I'd say that does qualify as nazi thinking.

its not about ethnicity its coincidental that they happen to be latino its about the blaitant disregard of another countries laws i'm sure the guy would have no qualms about blasting persians,arabs,chinese, indians, germans, french or irish if they were breaking laws and commiting a felony with willful disregard

[bohoki]

i'm not for making illegal entry a felony on the first arrest i say if someone was found having entered this country illegally or not leaving when their visa expired

should just be a registration and deportation

if found again breaking the law then make it a felony

maybe we should even start labor camps with non citizens to pay their debts to society and allow citizenship after a few years,i would also like to maybe allow unlawful immigrants the opportunity to join the army and offer them citizenship after their service is completed

we must do something about the flow of american currency to mexico that is what draws them the opportunity to send money home while their poor familys are stripped of it by corrupt officials so make a law forbiding the wire transfer of moneys by undocumented unlawful entrants


i mainly want harsher penalties for the hiring

[Flip]

i am far to drunk to make sense, so until tomorow id kindly accept people ignoring me untill i can support what i say.

i hate arguing with jax, but on this front i guess we dont see eye to eye, frankly i dont think its the americas land to protect, i agree that illegals should get a permit, but i dont agree that the americas even have a say in it, its not their land :\ i wont get into it more until im capable of arguing, im really not in a position to righht now.