Goths are blamed again...

[Kidthorazine]

of course, thats how popular culture has always worked, then years later whatever was looked down upon by pop culture all of the sudden becomes popular, then people who where origionaly part of it feel even more alienated than before, which is what sucks about the way western culture progresses.

[Pull~My~Hair]

i know we are wandering off off topic here but

I think no matter what culture "counter-culture" crowd etc. you consider yourself, there is the right way and the lazy wrong way, I think that everything you do in life should be done with some couth and some brain waves....
examples





Im not just talking about physical stuff however, im talking about your actions and your words, your causes, and you ideals.If someone feels they must associate themselves and identify themselves as a certain "type" of person, they should damn well do their best to make it look good.
I guess what im trying to say is: if you speak for a group of people make sure you correctly relay the messge that said group of people want to send...

Sorry im ranty ranty tonight

[One Eyed Cat]

the whole thing is absurd.... goth is just a trend with kids dying thier hair black and doesn't have any substance to it. oh wait, one shot somebody? yeah, it's all about worshiping satan and killing people.

see the discrepancy with the *mainstream* viewpoint I was sarcastically toting above? if you want to point out that goth is a legitmiate culture with such things as networking and media outlets and a genuinly creative venture and not just a fringe group of trench coat wearing teenagers in the midwest, then it's dismissed. if you want to talk about the way that goth individuals get together to form a mass culutral movement as a negative, then it suddenly becomes the thing that's sweeping the nation.

if it's something that the *mainstream* minority disagrees with and it is doing something genuinley wrong, then it's a HUGE thing. if it's something they disagree with and it's doing something genuinly positive, then it's just a couple of dopes and they don't really matter or get anything done so it's no big deal and not worth taking seriously.

I can't argue that that is not the current state of affairs. I think it is worth an effort to promote the gothic as a positive aspect of many peoples' lives, however. It should further be noted that it has nothing to do with losers like Charles Manson or a few degenerate kids who shoot up their schools.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

i know we are wandering off off topic here but

I think no matter what culture "counter-culture" crowd etc. you consider yourself, there is the right way and the lazy wrong way, I think that everything you do in life should be done with some couth and some brain waves....
examples





Im not just talking about physical stuff however, im talking about your actions and your words, your causes, and you ideals.If someone feels they must associate themselves and identify themselves as a certain "type" of person, they should damn well do their best to make it look good.
I guess what im trying to say is: if you speak for a group of people make sure you correctly relay the messge that said group of people want to send...

Sorry im ranty ranty tonight

I think you're right on point.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

of course, thats how popular culture has always worked, then years later whatever was looked down upon by pop culture all of the sudden becomes popular, then people who where origionaly part of it feel even more alienated than before, which is what sucks about the way western culture progresses.

The more macabre aspect: These loser kids are suddenly "gothic" as the subculture is exploited by popular culture. One has to deal with this state of affairs, however.

OEC

[LoraLie]

i know we are wandering off off topic here but

I think no matter what culture "counter-culture" crowd etc. you consider yourself, there is the right way and the lazy wrong way, I think that everything you do in life should be done with some couth and some brain waves....
examples





Im not just talking about physical stuff however, im talking about your actions and your words, your causes, and you ideals.If someone feels they must associate themselves and identify themselves as a certain "type" of person, they should damn well do their best to make it look good.
I guess what im trying to say is: if you speak for a group of people make sure you correctly relay the messge that said group of people want to send...

Sorry im ranty ranty tonight

thats exactly the reason i jump on kids who call me goth
I dont look or act or anything . . . . goth.

i have much respect for the the goth culture. & i think its quite intriguing. but nay, I am not.

[Kahunaxi]

You know, when I first saw the pictures of Gill... The first thing that went through my mind was "Shit... That dude had better not be into industrial..."

Can't imagine the looks I got from people on the bus that day... I didn't see them, but I could feel them.

[VoldtaEngler]

You know, when I first saw the pictures of Gill... The first thing that went through my mind was "Shit... That dude had better not be into industrial..."

would it really matter what music he listened too? Thats typecasting in a whole nother sense then.

"The columbine kids listened to rammstein....they are goth"
Or something to that effect that made headlines with the media.

Blaming music for actions is the media scapegoating the facts.
I hate that.

[Kahunaxi]

would it really matter what music he listened too?

T'hell with that. If he listened ot industrial then the media would grab that music stereotype and peple would immadiately associate shooting rampages with KMFDM...

Pretty stupid, since a lot of murderous gun rampages happen everyday involving people who don't listen to Industrial and aren't even remotely NEAR the "gothic spectrum" in any terms whatsoever.. Apart from maybe the odd few who listened to Delerium happy hardcore remixes... And that's REALLY cutting it fine.

[VoldtaEngler]

isnt that basically what i just wrote? lol

[Mr Karl]

First, my kudos to the officer who liquidated this man.
OEC

except that now that they've dug the bullets out of his skull they find out he killed himself

at least that's what they say

[One Eyed Cat]

except that now that they've dug the bullets out of his skull they find out he killed himself

at least that's what they say

Seriously? I wish he'd had that moment of clarity before butchering those people. Do u have a link?

OEC

[Mr Karl]

no I got that from the tv probablyCTV or global

[One Eyed Cat]

Found it: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060914/...llege_shooting

They seem to have erased his vampirefreaks profile from being cached even. He was some Columbine worshipping idiot.

OEC

Got a mirror to his profile: http://www.missdynamite.com/fatality666.htm.
Here's his "legacy": http://raincoaster.wordpress.com/200...er-gills-blog/

[ForrestBlack]

Poor guy. It sucks that he didn't get the help he clearly needed and came to the conclusion he should go out like that.

[LoraLie]

Seeing this guys profile actually annoys me a little.

He's so stuck on labels and stereotypes. He seems as ignorant and closeminded as the people throwing the blame on 'goths'

[VoldtaEngler]

Ok..so he takes lots of quizzes about "you scored as Depressed and suicidal!"
Also he mentions he is not a people person but would rather be on group dates instead of single dates. Kinda contradicting.

Anywho i can see why the media is all over him being another "goth killer"

"Likes: Goth everything, Marilyn Manson, Black clothes, black everything, semi automatics, night, cold places, kittens (tiny white ones)"
ok so im confused on the kitten part..

Also out of the games he listed, the media chose Columbine Massacre RPG instead of you know..Need For Speed (which is also on the list)

I really dont have much sympathy for someone who wanted to take the world down with them. He supported non animal cruelty and seemed to be a semi intelligent person. Something must have triggered him to go off, i doubt they will ever really know though besides comming to the conclusion that he was just that depressed i guess.

Blame it on the rain....yaaa-e-yaaaa...

[Pull~My~Hair]

LOL he said his best feature is his hair...HA! He obviously had no concept of reality

[LoraLie]

I dont know but I found this while I was reading, which might give some insight. If anyone noticed:

And here’s an entry from the day before that really should have been a red flag; the Mounties say they have a unit that patrols sites like this and if they’d seen his journal they wouldn’t have considered what he posted there to be a warning. What do you think it looks like?

FUCK YOU September 12, 2006, 05:00:am

Stop Bullying

It’s not only the bully’s fault you know!!
It’s the teachers and principals fault for turning a blind eye, just cuz it’s not their job. You fuckers are pathetic.
It’s the police’s fault for not doing anything when people conplain (oops, my mistake, the cops are corrupt sons of whores, so it’s not like they can do anything about it.)

FUCK THE POLICE

It’s society’s fault for acting like it’s normal for people to be assholes to each other. Society disgusts me.
It’s everyone’s fault for being so apathetic towards fucking everything that doesn’t affect them personally. FUCK YOU SOCIETY.

Mood:FUCK YOU!!
Music:Mudvayne - Happy

[LoraLie]

LOL he said his best feature is his hair...HA! He obviously had no concept of reality

[Buster Friendly]

or maybe he found a pair of sunglasses that let him see that some of his fellow citizens were in fact skinless aliens masqurading as humans... and then he ran out of bubble gum...

...maybe something else happened, and the media's spinning it the way they are for what ever reason. possibly even for our own good... maybe we don't know jack shit about what went down, and never will because we don't know anyone involved?

and let's be fucking honest about some shit here, okay?

'goth'-the gothic subculture isn't exactly all love, peace, and bunny farts. i mean fuckin' c'mon if this guy were a jhonen vasquez comic people'd be wearing t-shirts with his stylishly rendered goofball mug all over them.

(oh yeah, i know none of the 'real goffs' ever read those comics, or any other form of entertainment where dismemberment is a prominent feature. that's only the 'hawt topik' crowd. damn posuer mallgoths.)

shit every 'death rocker' kid i knew just about had/has a lovely arsenal, katanas, meat cleavers, saturday night specials, riot clubs, mace, ninja stars, claymores, and landmines (the other claymore.)

...it's not like death, and extream alienation from mainstream society are ever topics of discussion around here, and certianly never feature in the music goth kids enjoy... (you know the 'real goths' who like christian death, and so forth) not like anyone you know has ever been so frustrated they felt like going on a spree... never.

naw i wear these steel toed boots because by day i shed my frilly pirate blouse, and go to work as a construction worker... my lunch pail is decorated with skull stickers...

...not like any of this is responsible for the malfunctioning of one human being. (that's not a sarcastic comment... sorry had to reread it 3x to make sure.)

dude flipped out.

lots of people do.

more christian wackos freakout, and blast people than 'goffs'.

...and just what the orange, and green neon striped gooey fuck does charlie fuckin' manson have to do with any of this shit anyway? damn.

sorry, i just had to get that off my chest...

...it's sad dude couldn't figure out a better way to use his life.

[Pull~My~Hair]

'goth'-the gothic subculture isn't exactly all love, peace, and bunny farts.

i laughed so hard I peed a little

[Buster Friendly]

to clarify-there maybe a slight violent subtext to some aspects of a perfered asthetic... but it has nothing whatsoever to do with seriously malfunctioning people.

he would have latched on to christian fundementalism, or islamofacism (which is a bullshit word btw), or something....

we (black clothes wearing freaks) have nothing to apologize for.

[Pull~My~Hair]

well, i personally dont think much of this guy and his reasons, he was an overgrown depressed 16 year old who didn't get a date to junior prom, his mom was probably a church going non-sinner who showed his naked baby pictures to his only girlfriend "bertha" and she dumped his ass. She told everyone at school about his missing testicle and the teacher laughed a little.He vowed to "teach them a lesson" as he pet his "tiny white kitten"

hehe sorry...it was story time

[Amelia G]

to clarify-there maybe a slight violent subtext to some aspects of a perfered asthetic... but it has nothing whatsoever to do with seriously malfunctioning people.

he would have latched on to christian fundementalism, or islamofacism (which is a bullshit word btw), or something....

we (black clothes wearing freaks) have nothing to apologize for.

Amen.

Timothy McVeigh anyone?

[keiko]

What really gets on my nerves about this whole thing is that just because this kid who was a little nutso claimed Goth suddenly all goths are being held accountable. But if a middle eastern nutso claims Muslim Extremsim we are supposed to go out of our wayto NOT profile middle eastern people or muslims because they're not all like that. I won't answer for this fuckos crimes. I'm not his saviour. No more do I expect the guy at the 7-eleven to answer for Osama's craziness. But for some reason I'm expected to. *grr*

K

ps. I LIKE jhonen vasquez and roman dirge. i also work at the mall. are you calling my gothness into question?

[LoraLie]

i'm gonna shoot myself later for what i am about to say, but i have to say it

Why couldnt he be emo.

[keiko]

i'm gonna shoot myself later for what i am about to say, but i have to say it

Why couldnt he be emo.

becasue emo kids don't have the gumption to get a gun let alone fire one several times at people before doing them selves in. but yeah why couldn't he be emo? then there'd be no more emo kids *yay*

K

[VoldtaEngler]

becasue emo kids don't have the gumption to get a gun let alone fire one several times at people before doing them selves in. but yeah why couldn't he be emo? then there'd be no more emo kids *yay*

K

ya there would. if he was emo he woulda shot the goth kids instead.

[keiko]

ya there would. if he was emo he woulda shot the goth kids instead.

nah he would put on some Panic at the Disco and write terse words about the goth kid in thier Live Journal.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

Do you think he ever played Grand Theft Auto? A game where you actively have to go around killing people, and other various crimes.

Can't imagine the looks I got from people on the bus that day... I didn't see them, but I could feel them.

I was travelling to work on the "Metro" (underground train system in my area) and i was reading the news paper with this MOOK on the front. On a crowded train, my wife and myself are the only people with seats to ourselves. There are people eyeing up the seats next to us, but nobody dared sit next to us. People would have probably sat next to "backpacking Asians" rather than sit next to us. This proves the ignorance of the general public. Keiko is right, we should set up some sort of Goth Extremist Group!

[Buster Friendly]

[QUOTE=
ps. I LIKE jhonen vasquez and roman dirge. i also work at the mall. are you calling my gothness into question?[/QUOTE]

or as stephen colbert might call it "gothiness"?

certainly not keiko... i was just making the general rant that, yeah sometimes we do go on about how we'd like to shove those screaming fucking tots who's parents won't fucking discipline them in our places of business, into the french friers... and such.

the crow, JTHM, all the sundry vampire products... violence IS an aspect of the gothic subculture. (and so is bitching about the mall. the goth club du jour, our friends, our friends stupid bf/gf... etc.)

acting out that violence, not so much.

[Mr Karl]

I couldn't believe the editorials in the sunday paper today....someone actually suggested banning black trenchcoats!!! what the fuck is that about? how the fuck am I supposed to keep dry and warm??
I wonder, would that include my frock coat? and, what if you happen to like Johny cash? I wear a cowboy hat with my trenchcoat so where do I fit in, should I be worried

I really hate to say this but:
"why Montreal why?"

[ForrestBlack]

I couldn't believe the editorials in the sunday paper today....someone actually suggested banning black trenchcoats!!! what the fuck is that about? how the fuck am I supposed to keep dry and warm??
I wonder, would that include my frock coat? and, what if you happen to like Johny cash? I wear a cowboy hat with my trenchcoat so where do I fit in, should I be worried

I really hate to say this but:
"why Montreal why?"

I really think that a real statistical breakdown of crime risk as associated with clothing choices would put banning Gothic clothes pretty low on the list of priorities. Also, I hear it gets cold in Montreal.

[Mr Karl]

yeah I know, it's just funny that someone who get's paid more than me got paid to write that.

and yeah, it gets freaking cold there, another reason for me to stay in nice safe TO

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

I really think that a real statistical breakdown of crime risk as associated with clothing choices would put banning Gothic clothes pretty low on the list of priorities. Also, I hear it gets cold in Montreal.

78% of all murders were commited by someone wearing underwear. There is obviously only one responsible thing to do. I hope you will all write your representatives today.

[One Eyed Cat]

What really gets on my nerves about this whole thing is that just because this kid who was a little nutso claimed Goth suddenly all goths are being held accountable. But if a middle eastern nutso claims Muslim Extremsim we are supposed to go out of our wayto NOT profile middle eastern people or muslims because they're not all like that. I won't answer for this fuckos crimes. I'm not his saviour. No more do I expect the guy at the 7-eleven to answer for Osama's craziness. But for some reason I'm expected to. *grr*

K

ps. I LIKE jhonen vasquez and roman dirge. i also work at the mall. are you calling my gothness into question?

I reject his association outright. I've been around gothic scenes for many, many years. There is less violence on those scenes than any groups I've been around. Hell, there's more violence in law school. Thus, I believe that we can simply dismiss any correlation. I am certain that, if I could compile a study, actual gothic scenes would come out as less prone to violence than virtually any "group". In short, fuck those people. The truth will come out.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

What really gets on my nerves about this whole thing is that just because this kid who was a little nutso claimed Goth suddenly all goths are being held accountable. But if a middle eastern nutso claims Muslim Extremsim we are supposed to go out of our wayto NOT profile middle eastern people or muslims because they're not all like that. I won't answer for this fuckos crimes. I'm not his saviour. No more do I expect the guy at the 7-eleven to answer for Osama's craziness. But for some reason I'm expected to. *grr*

K

ps. I LIKE jhonen vasquez and roman dirge. i also work at the mall. are you calling my gothness into question?

I reject his association outright. I've been around gothic scenes for many, many years. There is less violence on those scenes than amongst any other group I've been around. Hell, there's more violence in law school. Thus, I believe that we can simply dismiss any correlation. I am certain that, if I could compile a study, actual gothic scenes would come out as less prone to violence than virtually any "group". In short, fuck those people. The truth will come out.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

to clarify-there maybe a slight violent subtext to some aspects of a perfered asthetic... but it has nothing whatsoever to do with seriously malfunctioning people.

he would have latched on to christian fundementalism, or islamofacism (which is a bullshit word btw), or something....

we (black clothes wearing freaks) have nothing to apologize for.

I would never concede a "violent subtext". You are right on the money with everything else.

OEC

[Buster Friendly]

so i suppose all the skulls, and blood, and spikes, and razorblades, JTHM, vampires, horror movies, black humor, and such have no real place in the 'gothick' subculture?

or we've all just out grown them, and now only the hot topic crowd enjoys a good old fashioned Hammer Horror movie where Vincent Price tortures a top heavy actress to death in some ingenious fashion...

...it's all just a meditation, and reflection on the transience of life, and the inevivilbity of death, a reflection, the peace of the grave...

HORSESHIT!!!

when frustrated by life my pancake make, and mascara wearing buddies will frequently spout off about climbing a clocktower with a high powered rifle, or stabbing out the eyes of antagonists with surgical scalpels... it's as goth as jackolanterns dammit.

one of the princple attractions of the lifestyle is freaking out the locals, and then complaining that your just misunderstood, while fantasizing about clawing their pretty little faces with a set of lee presson knives... don't even bullshit and say it isn't. (oh maybe not for you... or anyone you know... surely no one here would eversay sucha thing )

yeah, people who do those things "aren't really gothik" ...i call bullshit on that!!!