spanking

[Jebadiah]

I heard yesterday, California was working on a law so you won't be able to spank a child under four. I wouldn't care if it said two and under, but 3 seems to be an age that it works. For my Maeve (whos 3), one little fake swat to the butt is extreme discipline (ussually acompanied with being sent to her room).


Not to dissapiont,


Before we were married, My wife and I liked it rough, and spanking was involved.
Years later when we got together again (and got married) It was like our pain threshold was lowered, we tried, but it was more of a mood breaker then a turn-on.

[Pull~My~Hair]

thats retarded, for being the land of the free they sure are giving an awful lot of restrictions these days.
I wouldnt consider myself a parent who spanks, but when my almost 2 year old runs into the middle of the road or grabs a knife off the counter or does something that could potentially kill him, I swat his ass, and I don't feel one bit bad about it.
Of course there is a limit, when I was little, my dad would get carried away, he would spank us too often and too hard, it lost it's meaning. It turned into a way for him to take out his aggression.

But personally I think if there is a law it should be you can't spank children OVER 5. there becomes a point that a child should be able to understand with words. when they are 2 the only way to communicate something sometimes is physically. I can tell Kaden
"Kaden if you run out in the road the car will hit you and you will die"
but he hears
"Kaden blah blah blah car vroooooooom blah blah blah"

if I spank him he hears "oh shit I did something bad I better not do it again."
and since I dont normally spank he knows im serious.

It's a stupid law, im all for protecting the children, but if this law passes in about 13 years california will be overrun by undisaplined brats who have never heard the word NO because their parents were afraid they'd go to jail.

[Morning Glory]

ok, here's a fair deal. we make it legal to spank kids, and also I get to punch anyone who pisses me off.

[mmmcherry]

i think thats a fabulous deal MG...
but yeah. i totally agree with PMH... do it to make them learn not to do something that could hurt them, but dont overdo it.

[Mr Karl]

ok, here's a fair deal. we make it legal to spank kids, and also I get to punch anyone who pisses me off.

ahh the good old days

[Velvet-Tongue]

<--Has had to deal with alotta new-agey parents lately. When a kid is that little they are not capable of higher thought. You're not going to instill some deep philosophy of goodness and righteousness in them. However a light slap on the bottom is a quick way to re-wire their brain to "Oh man, maybe I should stop being an ass because that hurt." Infact mom and dad seem to really dislike me screaming as loud as I can in a movie theater. Maybe i'll stop doing that so I don't get spanked again.

Never seen a parent really lay in knuckles deep when they spanked a kid. Thats just abuse, but a light slap on the butt is not going to damage a kid. The idea of being spanked is usually more effective then actually doing it sometimes. Atleast from my observations and memories

[Morning Glory]

if a kid isn't capable of "higher thought' than how the hell are they supposed to rationalize actions that are commited upon them by someone else and compare it to thier own actions in that situation to be able to grasp the other persons moral codes and intentions? that sounds like a pretty far leap of logic to me.

pain is an involuntary reflex. the abilty to grasp the concept of good and bad are philosophical constructs. in other words, the normal reaction to pain is "ouch." if someone walks up to you and punches you in the face you are going to know it hurts, you'll probably also know that it was the result of your actions because all your life you've been taught in the idea of good and bad, and you can rationalize that what you did was perceived as bad to the other person, so they did something bad back to you.

do you really think that children know the difference? if they do, then they are capable of understanding and forming ideas and thoughts, so then your only real intention is to punish them for disobeying you, contray to the justification that the purpose is to teach the child. If the child really doesn't know then how is hurting them going to make them learn? all they will know is that you are hurting them and they won't recognize that it's because they've done something bad, they don't have the concept of good and bad, they are just doing something, and really without that philsophical imperative, they probably don't even grasp that idea because it too requires a knowledge of concious and subconciousness.

[Velvet-Tongue]

When a kid touches fire, he goes "fuck ouch" and does not touch fire again.

You can teach a hampster cause and effect. Its just Pavlov at that point. "Action A causes action B" that serves untill the childs concept of laws and whats right/wrong matures with them.

Once I started calling my mom and dad by there first name "Todd todd todd jane jane jane" I did not know that many people consider that to be disrespectful. Upon my father telling me that, the concept still did not sink in. However when he spanked me one time... I realized that doing that behavior is not good because it causes a negative response from someone i'm admiring.

[Morning Glory]

there's a difference between fire being hot and someone using fear and violence to make thier kids do what they want. I'm so sick of this fucking double standard when it comes to respecting the rights of others. I'm done trying to get people to actually think about the shit that they do.

[mmmcherry]

When a kid touches fire, he goes "fuck ouch" and does not touch fire again.

yeah except for me... i was the smrt one and played with it all the time, i burnt myself a whole bunch of times and still do... hehe i just hope my kid is smarter than me!

[Kat]

there's a difference between fire being hot and someone using fear and violence to make thier kids do what they want. I'm so sick of this fucking double standard when it comes to respecting the rights of others. I'm done trying to get people to actually think about the shit that they do.

There is a huge difference between raising your child in an environment of fear and violence, and using mild physical discipline to reinforce something you are trying to teach them.
At a young age, children may know right from wrong, but have trouble grasping why it is wrong - and some children won't obey unless they know why they should. Some concepts are simply beyond their capabilities at that stage in their development, which is where a light spank can be effective.
Not all kids need to be spanked, but some children need a more immediate, physical reminder of things, the same way some kids need to touch the stove to know its hot, while others will obey when they're told "don't touch it, it will burn you".

[Mr Karl]

hmmmm, rights of others.....maybe life is a priviledge not a right............

[Morning Glory]

There is a huge difference between raising your child in an environment of fear and violence, and using mild physical discipline to reinforce something you are trying to teach them.

there's no difference at all. demonstrating a principle is teaching. fire is hot, if you touch it you will get burnt. threatening is coercion. If you don't do what I say I'll hurt you. the lesson is that they are not going to do it because they don't want to get spanked, not because of it's rightness or wrongness, or more importantly because it's in thier best intrest.

and life isn't a privaledge or a right. It's a fucking fact. you can try and justify it all you want to make yourself feel better about being an asshole, but you don't have any grounds to decide for someone else how they feel or dictate your own feelings onto them.

[Morning Glory]

that's the thing that has pissed me off a lot about some posts lately. some people seem to think thier cause of commiting actions onto others takes precidence over the others abilty to decide what is done to them.

my original point is that it's not right, and it's generally accepted in society that hurting people is wrong. it's not ok for a man to hit a woman because she disobeyes him. saying that it's a parents right to hit a child is just carrying on the same rationale that one is less of a person and should be under the other's control. Yes, as a parent you should be taking care of your kids, but it's not your job to run thier lives and what they should believe in. If you were a good enough parent then your kids wouldn't be in situations where they could be harmed, or you could prevent them from being harmed. there's no good reason to spank a kid.

[mmmcherry]

If you were a good enough parent then your kids wouldn't be in situations where they could be harmed, or you could prevent them from being harmed.

i dont entirely agree with this MG... no matter how good a parent you are, you cant watch your kids every minute of the day... my brother wandered away from the house once when he was 3 or 4 years old, followed some older kids thru a hole in the fence and followed them for awhile up the train tracks... when my mom finally found him, he had climbed up onto the fence, reaching over it screaming for her because there was a train going by at the time. but that doesnt mean she was a shitty mom... he just snuck away without her knowing... he didnt mean to or anything, he just wanted to play with the big kids.
i also dont agree with "theres no good reason to spank a kid" 100%... i believe most reasons parents spank their kid could be resolved a different way, but if my son ever decided that its funny to run out in the middle of the road or something, im gonna smack him one to make him realize damn good that he shouldnt do that, cause i dont want him killed. its like PMH says... "all he hears is car bla bla bla vroom bla bla..." because hes not old enough to understand that cars can kill him. i would much rather spank my child than watch him get seriously hurt.

[Velvet-Tongue]

there's no difference at all. demonstrating a principle is teaching. fire is hot, if you touch it you will get burnt. threatening is coercion. If you don't do what I say I'll hurt you. the lesson is that they are not going to do it because they don't want to get spanked, not because of it's rightness or wrongness, or more importantly because it's in thier best intrest.

and life isn't a privaledge or a right. It's a fucking fact. you can try and justify it all you want to make yourself feel better about being an asshole, but you don't have any grounds to decide for someone else how they feel or dictate your own feelings onto them.

If you can't see the difference between an enviroment of fear and violence, and a rare case of mild physical discpline then your views are rather skewed.

There is a world of difference.

[Velvet-Tongue]

saying that it's a parents right to hit a child is just carrying on the same rationale that one is less of a person and should be under the other's control. Yes, as a parent you should be taking care of your kids, but it's not your job to run thier lives and what they should believe in. If you were a good enough parent then your kids wouldn't be in situations where they could be harmed, or you could prevent them from being harmed. there's no good reason to spank a kid.

Once again a light spank on the rear end of a child is many degrees less then a grown man hitting a woman in the face. You're not knocking the child into a wall and punching him/her in the face. You're using the light physical punishment accompanies by a bit of yelling to instill an instinct that what they're doing is not good. People that spank there kids for everything are stupid, but a rare case is sometimes justified and helps keep a level of respect in the family unit.

And it IS a parents right to control a child and what they believe in, when they're that young. Without any guidence and role-modelship the kid is just going to copy someone else. Thats the whole point of being a kid is to observe others around you and learn how now to die. When they get to a certain age spankings and the like no longer work because hey, the kid can better understand society and the way things work. You've raised the child out of there basic stage and now is the time they can begin learning about the world around them, questioning your ideas, and becoming there own person.


And finally, just like M cherry said, yo can't watch your children 100% of the time and protect them from harm. How many kids from good families get a broken arm, or get killed? Just because these random acts happen does not mean the parents are bad parents. Bad things happen.

[ForrestBlack]

Maybe there needs to be a study, and if there is one, maybe it should be more widely published, showing the correlation of disciplinary styles and later life development and direction. For example, I think it would be a reasonable hypothesis that physically disciplinary households may breed more soldiers, for example. How you raise your child is to a great degree the recipe for how they will turn out in later life and I think if people had a better chart for likely results, they would potentially make more informed choices along the way. Speculating that spanking is intrinsically bad seems more like it could be an emotional conclusion. I don't support spanking children myself, but I'd be interested to see what trends it causes in later life, for better and worse.

[Kat]

and life isn't a privaledge or a right. It's a fucking fact. you can try and justify it all you want to make yourself feel better about being an asshole, but you don't have any grounds to decide for someone else how they feel or dictate your own feelings onto them.

I never said that, so I do hope that wasn't aimed at me.

Do you actually have children, or have you been involved in raising children?

Unless you strap a child on your back 24 hours a day, you can not prevent them getting hurt. Like it or not, kid hurting themselves is how they learn. I never advocated hurting children deliberately to teach them something. A light spank on the butt, or the back of the hand, generally doesn't hurt a child. It'll give them a shock, and that is the intent of most parents - to do something to make their child realise that what they just did is wrong.

Most kids who cry when receiving mild or reasonable discipline do it because they've learned that the parent will feel guilty, and let them have their own way.

But, really, I'm not trying to argue with you, or say you're wrong. You have your opinion, I have mine, I was just trying to clarify mine for you.

[Xochitl]

I read about this, but I think the state should stay out of people personal lives & put that effort, time & money into other things that are far more controllable.

[Morning Glory]

no, that wasn't directed at you kat. I ahve been invovled in raising children- Me. I didn't have my parents to look out for me so I had to do it on my own, and I didn't need anyone to spank me, just having to live with the consequences of my actions was enough to straighten me up pretty quickly and when shit turned out bad for me, then it wasn't much effort for me to realize that I wasn't going to do that anymore.

you're right, kids get hurt and shit happens. that's life. so deal with it, don't use it as any excuse to try and manipulate your kids into being just like you. If you see your kid running out into traffic, just stop her and tell her that why she shouldn't do it. either she'll listen or she won't, nothing you can do will change that. maybe your kids will just listen to you for 18 years and internally they'll hate your guts for trying to stiffle them all the time and make them go against what they want to do, and then they'll say so long and walk out of your life and never call you again the first cahnce they get.

I think that is why a lot of people have kids in the first place, like they have this fucked up notion that no one loves them and then if they have a kid they'll have someone love them, and they are crushed when the kid becomes it's own person and they can't live vicariously through them anymore.

[Kat]

I think that is why a lot of people have kids in the first place, like they have this fucked up notion that no one loves them and then if they have a kid they'll have someone love them, and they are crushed when the kid becomes it's own person and they can't live vicariously through them anymore.

I agree, that is a really fucked up notion. I rank it right up there with people who think having a child will save a failing relationship - a stupid idea, and ultimately bad for the child.

[Pull~My~Hair]

no, that wasn't directed at you kat. I ahve been invovled in raising children- Me. I didn't have my parents to look out for me so I had to do it on my own, and I didn't need anyone to spank me, just having to live with the consequences of my actions was enough to straighten me up pretty quickly and when shit turned out bad for me, then it wasn't much effort for me to realize that I wasn't going to do that anymore.

you're right, kids get hurt and shit happens. that's life. so deal with it, don't use it as any excuse to try and manipulate your kids into being just like you. If you see your kid running out into traffic, just stop her and tell her that why she shouldn't do it. either she'll listen or she won't, nothing you can do will change that. maybe your kids will just listen to you for 18 years and internally they'll hate your guts for trying to stiffle them all the time and make them go against what they want to do, and then they'll say so long and walk out of your life and never call you again the first cahnce they get.

im sorry but

Morning glory, just because you had shitty/no parents and you're still alive, doesn't mean that a two year old can raise themselves and make their own decisions. Disaplining a child doesn't mean you are trying to brainwash them or manipulate them to be like their parents.
When I make Kaden take a bath or spank him for sticking a knife in the outlet I am doing it because I love him and want him to be safe and happy ,and grow up to be a happy person with a grip on reality, which obviously you don't have. You have NO idea what it's like a to raise a child, You have NO idea the decisions you need to make about how you raise your kid based on their personality. So what i'm trying to say is don't preach until you read the bible.
I'm glad you think people shouldn't breed anymore, because you should definatley NOT have children, you still are one.

[Morning Glory]

why shouldn't I have kids, because they won't turn out like you? you sure are defensive about your parenting, sounds like you have a guilty conscience to me. at least I have the guts to admit my short comings and faults and that it's more important for me to have kids that don't have shitty lives (or no kids at all for that reason) than to be right. you can tell me that I'm crazy until the cows come home, but I don't hit my kids and you do.

[Pull~My~Hair]

why shouldn't I have kids, because they won't turn out like you? you sure are defensive about your parenting, sounds like you have a guilty conscience to me. at least I have the guts to admit my short comings and faults and that it's more important for me to have kids that don't have shitty lives (or no kids at all for that reason) than to be right. you can tell me that I'm crazy until the cows come home, but I don't hit my kids and you do.

Please, you can't even try to pull that card, Like I said orignally , there isn't a person in the world that could convince me that how im raising my son is wrong, I have an amazing kid, and it's due to how he's been raised.
The reason that i get defensive is that you come in here all fuckin holier than thou talking complete shit out your ass, and it's not just this thread, in general you have a really negative shitty condescending attitude the majority of the time, and that's fine,usually. but there are a lot of NEW parents in here and you are doing nothing but talking like you KNOW what you're saying and making them question having children, i.e. anyone who breeds is an idiot. When in fact you are just a lonley little man who didn't get anough love when he was little. Now, we can mince words all day, but the fact is, I don't like you, you are negative and rude, and I feel sorry that you live your life that way. But I think all of the BB moms and dads are doing just fine and know whats best for their kids, whether they spank them or not, they know their kids and they know what it's like to have kids. I'm not an argumentive person, but I do take parenting very seriously I don't like when people attack other peoples parenting skills, Most of all by someone that has absolutley no footing on the subject in the first place.

[Morning Glory]

I don't have a negative attitude, except towards people that hurt others. I don't do that, and yes I do call out people that do and expose them for what they are.

also if I seem to be condescending it's because I actually try and back up what i'm saying with facts and logical reasoning, instead of just personally attacking people that don't agree with me and not being able to stand by what I say.

so as always, put your money where you mouth is. show me how spanking leads to kids having better lives. other than just getting knocked up and then spanking thier own kids and going off on a power trip.

[Morning Glory]

and I don't care if you don't like me. your not my mom. if you were i'm sure that you'd smack me a good one to shut me up and show me how right you are.

[mmmcherry]

well MG i was spanked as a child and i wouldnt change a fuckin thing with my life right now. my life is perfect the way i want it.
yeah maybe i couldnt go to baking school like i planned and wanted to, but i dont care, i can put that on hold until my son is in school himself. doesnt make a difference to me when i go, cause i know ill do it eventually.
and yes i did happen to get knocked up, my son wasnt exactly planned, but i never fucking ONCE regretted having him. so if there is a better life out there for me then i dont want it and im going to raise my child the way I think is right, not the way YOU think is right.
and yes that may include spankings once in awhile and no i do not consider it to be abuse.
on that note i think i may be done with this particular thread, unless somebody has something useful to say that isnt a fucking argument and doesnt sound like theyre trying to tell other people how to raise their children.

[Pull~My~Hair]

and I don't care if you don't like me. your not my mom. if you were i'm sure that you'd smack me a good one to shut me up and show me how right you are.

damn right I would, then i'd sell you to a gypsy

Don't try to make me out as a monster because I swat my kids heavily diaper padded ass once a month, give me a break.

so as always, put your money where you mouth is. show me how spanking leads to kids having better lives.

I never said spanking a kid will lead to a better life, it's a parenting choice, I never said not spanking your kid is wrong either.
I don't think it's okay to beat the shit out of your kid every time they do something wrong. Im saying that its a parenting choice, just like paying your kids to get good grades, parents not having their kids get jobs until they are 18.buying your 8 year old a cell phone.which are a few things that I don't agree with but I would never tell a parent they are bad guardians because of it. I can respect the fact that you wouldn't spank your kids, but I resent the fact that you can deam someone a bad person or a bad parent because of the way they ocassionally discapline their child.

[Morning Glory]

Ok. i've been thinking about this a lot PMH, and I was too harsh on you. You're right, I don't know your situation and it was wrong of me to judge your parenting.

I have been an asshole lately and making a lot of enemies on this board, but some of these topics are things that just hit real close and that I feel strongly about and don't really have much tolerance for. maybe I'm fucked up in that way.

I know, there is a difference between discipline and abuse. but I feel like everyone just wants to say "well, I'm doing the right thing" and then turn a blind eye and skim over the fact that many people are doing the wrong things and those people are justifying it the same way. By giving the go ahead to let people spank thier kids it sends the message that a kid does things that they deserve to get hit for, and so it gives the green light to people that are inclined to take it way too far and use every opportunity they can get to dish it out.

So basically to sum it up even if I did believe in spanking, I would rather have it so that I wasn't allowed to do it innocently if it meant sparing people from seriously hurting children. It's just not worth it in my eyes.

and the reason that I brought up my own childhood wasn't to have a pity party, but just to show that sometimes you can do things to hurt people, especially kids who are very sensitive, without realizing it. I feel that spanking is one of those things, while it may not physically hurt the kid, it could damage your relationship.

[Morning Glory]

also, on the general subject of parenting I think that was taken the wrong way. I didn't say that only stupid people had kids, my point was that there are thousands of kids starving to death everyday. I think that pretty much everyone just has kids because they feel it's what they are supposed to do (along with getting married, buying a house, a new car, a career- just these social archetypes), and they don't really think about whether or not it's the best thing. I know a girl that was pregnant and she smoked and drank every day, and she had an abortion at 6 months because she found out her baby was brain damaged. that's the real world. there's a lot of shit to be negative about. I don't think that excerizing some restraint in having kids is such a bad thing.

[Pull~My~Hair]

Ok. i've been thinking about this a lot PMH, and I was too harsh on you. You're right, I don't know your situation and it was wrong of me to judge your parenting.

I have been an asshole lately and making a lot of enemies on this board, but some of these topics are things that just hit real close and that I feel strongly about and don't really have much tolerance for. maybe I'm fucked up in that way.

I know, there is a difference between discipline and abuse. but I feel like everyone just wants to say "well, I'm doing the right thing" and then turn a blind eye and skim over the fact that many people are doing the wrong things and those people are justifying it the same way. By giving the go ahead to let people spank thier kids it sends the message that a kid does things that they deserve to get hit for, and so it gives the green light to people that are inclined to take it way too far and use every opportunity they can get to dish it out.

So basically to sum it up even if I did believe in spanking, I would rather have it so that I wasn't allowed to do it innocently if it meant sparing people from seriously hurting children. It's just not worth it in my eyes.

and the reason that I brought up my own childhood wasn't to have a pity party, but just to show that sometimes you can do things to hurt people, especially kids who are very sensitive, without realizing it. I feel that spanking is one of those things, while it may not physically hurt the kid, it could damage your relationship.

Fair enough, I can totally understand what you are saying.Some people definatley should not have the option, my dad is an awesome person, but when I was little I hated him because he was always the one disaplining us and he would get so out of hand that he would use his belt or pull down our pants and use a stick or accidently hit us too hard, leaving bruises and welts, it was soooo wrong. ANd it wasn't like he thought he was "beating us" but now he tells us how wrong he was and that he had blind rage. He is the type of person that shouldve just stepped away from the whole situation.
So yeah, I can totally repect where you are coming from here. I just dont consider myself abusive at all i've never spanked Kaden while I was angry, so I don't like to think that people think of me that way.And I forget that there are alot of very abusive people out there, it's so hard for me to imagine someone abusing a lil kid, I forget that it happens as often as it does.

[amberone]

also, on the general subject of parenting I think that was taken the wrong way. I didn't say that only stupid people had kids, my point was that there are thousands of kids starving to death everyday. I think that pretty much everyone just has kids because they feel it's what they are supposed to do (along with getting married, buying a house, a new car, a career- just these social archetypes), and they don't really think about whether or not it's the best thing. I know a girl that was pregnant and she smoked and drank every day, and she had an abortion at 6 months because she found out her baby was brain damaged. that's the real world. there's a lot of shit to be negative about. I don't think that excerizing some restraint in having kids is such a bad thing.

I think you actually had some pretty good points in this thread. I see so many people think its ok to just have a kid. They think nothing about the kind of life they are bringing them into, nothing of the overall picture of things. I'm far from a prude but I do believe that its a really nice thing to plan on having a child, bringing it into a stable relationship (preferably a marriage). Don't get me wrong things can go wrong with the most perfect of situations and I have seen married couples with good incomes plan on having a child and it all goes south but GENERALLY speaking the "old time marriage situation" is something I view as at least a decent try at having a stable life. All I see is women with a bunch of kids all by different fathers. I know its sounds so old fashion and I guess it is but doesn't anyone think before they have sex anymore? With all the education on not spreading AIDS you'd think using protection would help keep pregnancies down. Any maybe its me but if you think its ok to have someones child why wouldn't you marry them? Is it so horrible to have an old fashion "family"? I think a marrige at least tries to show you have some committment to one another. Is it so horrible to have some old fashion morals? Hey do what you want when your single have a blast but once children come into the picture try thinking of them first. They didn't chose to be born to parents that can't afford to take care of them. I see so many young couples who find out "oops" I'm pregnant and do the "I'm going to have the baby" then they struggle to survive, bounce from apartment to apartment or relative to relative, some work thier butts off just to make ends meet some just suck off the federal funds and the rest of use pay for them. I would have loved to have more kids but 2 was what we could afford to take care of with comfort. I could have sat at home and collected welfare but I believe welfare is for people who can't help the situation they are in not for someone to chose to get into that situation. Remember these are MY opinions, they may seem flawed and I know that I can think of situations where my ideas didn't work. I just see morals of any kind going down the tubes, people popping out kids without thought and for the most part it doesn't end up in a happy situation.

[amberone]

, parents not having their kids get jobs until they are 18.buying your 8 year old a cell phone.which are a few things that I don't agree with but I would never tell a parent they are bad guardians because of it. I can respect the fact that you wouldn't spank your kids, but I resent the fact that you can deam someone a bad person or a bad parent because of the way they ocassionally discapline their child.

I'm curious, why don't you think not getting a job till your 18 isn't a good idea or getting a cell phone for you kid (8 might be on the young side)? My personal opinion is that school work comes first and theres plenty of time for working after you graduate though if a job was wanted and grades were kept up I don't think that would be a problem with me. Cell phones, my daughters have had them from around 11 or 12. Neither as ever used more that 30 minutes a month. It gives me a way keep in contact with them constantly and them me so as long as it isn't abused I don't see the problem.

[Kat]

I'm curious, why don't you think not getting a job till your 18 isn't a good idea or getting a cell phone for you kid (8 might be on the young side)? My personal opinion is that school work comes first and theres plenty of time for working after you graduate though if a job was wanted and grades were kept up I don't think that would be a problem with me. Cell phones, my daughters have had them from around 11 or 12. Neither as ever used more that 30 minutes a month. It gives me a way keep in contact with them constantly and them me so as long as it isn't abused I don't see the problem.

I can see why parents may see things like work or cell phones as needing to be restricted until certain ages. Some kids will let their school work drop if they're working aas well, and lots of kids are not as trustworthy as yours seem to be with a cell phone.

Its just a matter of a parent setting boundaries that work for them and their child, there's really no right or wrong way to go about things like that.

[Lady Alias]

As far as discipline goes, I don't think there's anything wrong with physical paired with verbal punishment. I was never spanked or even grounded, simply because I was afraid to do something bad and didn't undertand why I should even bother to do so. Though, I completely understand that some kids require that short shock value for a concept to register.
Personally, I would never, ever have children. The idea is one of my greatest fears. I'm not a fan of them, nor would I think it's morally right to bring more people into the world. Though, as amberone noted, if you have the means to deal with them financially, and understand the ordeals of it, then that's comforting to hear in this age. Some people are meant to be parents, other are not.

[amberone]

As far as discipline goes, I don't think there's anything wrong with physical paired with verbal punishment. I was never spanked or even grounded, simply because I was afraid to do something bad and didn't undertand why I should even bother to do so. Though, I completely understand that some kids require that short shock value for a concept to register.
Personally, I would never, ever have children. The idea is one of my greatest fears. I'm not a fan of them, nor would I think it's morally right to bring more people into the world. Though, as amberone noted, if you have the means to deal with them financially, and understand the ordeals of it, then that's comforting to hear in this age. Some people are meant to be parents, other are not.

Thats an excellent comment. There is NOTHING wrong with not having kids. I have a few co-workers that chose not to have kids and its a good thing they didn't they can barely handle thier pets (one has cats another has a dog). It used to drive me nuts when my parents and inlaws pushed and poked us with the "when you going to have kids", "you should have more" my response was I didn't think it was either of thier business unless they planned on having it, supporting it financially and physically/mentally they really shouldn't be commenting on it at all. Children are a huge investment of your life and while I feel they are a worthwild endevor that doesn't mean everyone is cut out for it and its nice to see people realize that. I also know people who foster children and have adopted which are options I truely admire.

[Pull~My~Hair]

I'm curious, why don't you think not getting a job till your 18 isn't a good idea or getting a cell phone for you kid (8 might be on the young side)? My personal opinion is that school work comes first and theres plenty of time for working after you graduate though if a job was wanted and grades were kept up I don't think that would be a problem with me. Cell phones, my daughters have had them from around 11 or 12. Neither as ever used more that 30 minutes a month. It gives me a way keep in contact with them constantly and them me so as long as it isn't abused I don't see the problem.

I dont think a kid should have a full time job or anything, yeah school should come first ( thats why I dont agree with parents paying for good grades, it should be expected of them) But when there are so many expenses now days, for cellphones and computer stuff and brand name clothes, I think a kid should have to work a little for it, even if parent pays half, I really think kids should learn money handeling skills.I think kids over 16 should at least work a couple hours a week during the summer though, it keeps them out of a little trouble with all that free time anyway.
As far as the cellphone for an 11-12 year old, especially how you are doing it(setting a limit on minutes), is cool, I can definatley see wanting to be in touch, and at that age usually kids are pretty busy. but ive seen kids in kindergarten with phones, i think thats ridiculous.

[amberone]

I dont think a kid should have a full time job or anything, yeah school should come first ( thats why I dont agree with parents paying for good grades, it should be expected of them) But when there are so many expenses now days, for cellphones and computer stuff and brand name clothes, I think a kid should have to work a little for it, even if parent pays half, I really think kids should learn money handeling skills.I think kids over 16 should at least work a couple hours a week during the summer though, it keeps them out of a little trouble with all that free time anyway.
As far as the cellphone for an 11-12 year old, especially how you are doing it(setting a limit on minutes), is cool, I can definatley see wanting to be in touch, and at that age usually kids are pretty busy. but ive seen kids in kindergarten with phones, i think thats ridiculous.

With my kids the cellphones have never been and issue. They barely ever use it for anything other than a quick call to say they are going somewhere or ask permission for something. Neither of my girls have ever been into hanging on the phone be it cell or house, then again neither am I. I went thru some issues with them at younger ages when one would lose something or break it and they'd think I'd just go out an buy another. I put a quick stop to that. They found out that they had to care for thier things. You'd be surprised how quickly they begin to be more careful of where they placed things when they didn't get another one when it was lost. I think sometimes parents push the cell phones because it gives them more contact and that can be both a good and bad thing. You need to let your kids grow up and function can't follow them around and solve every little problem they run into.