Davey Havok = Rockstar?

[One Eyed Cat]

Just curious if he meets the criteria as previously discussed. If so why? If not, why not? If so, what album made him so? Has he lost his purity? Can he regain it?

OEC

[EasyRider]

Who is Davey Havok?

[One Eyed Cat]

Who is Davey Havok?

Lead Singer of AFI. I'll take this as a no vote

OEC

[VoldtaEngler]

They were better when they were horrorpunk. Now producers and shit made them all fucking emo. Rockstar? Shit. Im a fucking rockstar.

[Kidthorazine]

Yeah I would certify him as one, because they came in to jump on the emo bandwagon, and then when it was becoming more popular the jumped over to the synth-pop/indie bandwagon

[One Eyed Cat]

Yeah I would certify him as one, because they came in to jump on the emo bandwagon, and then when it was becoming more popular the jumped over to the synth-pop/indie bandwagon

Which album put em over?

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

They were better when they were horrorpunk. Now producers and shit made them all fucking emo. Rockstar? Shit. Im a fucking rockstar.

OEC

[Kidthorazine]

Which album put em over?

OEC

duuno, I don't follow them at all, I just go by shit people play for me.

[Black Spiral Dancer]

Who is Davey Havok?

My thoughts exactly!

[EasyRider]

Oh, that whiny little streak of piss.

I saw that video with him trying to conjure up a faux-Cockney "MISS MAW DAW CON OY.... HEY! MISS MAW DAW CON OY! LIVE MOIYE LIFFFEEEEEE etc"

Jesus. Guy-liner, check. Hot Topic clothes, check. Vegan, check. Soulless, ball-less mallternative, check.

You know you're cool when everyone expects you to come out in black eyeliner, and you come out with neatly trimmed blonde hair, wearing white. RIGHT ANDY?

[One Eyed Cat]

duuno, I don't follow them at all, I just go by shit people play for me.

Yeah. I'm not sure either. Their older shit was great. Seem to get cheesier by the album. I don't care per se. It makes me laugh. He was a straight edge kid from Mendocino. Originally AFI = A bunch of Fucking Imbeciles. They'd change it now again. It's just funny to see the um progression

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

Oh, that whiny little streak of piss.

I saw that video with him trying to conjure up a faux-Cockney "MISS MAW DAW CON OY.... HEY! MISS MAW DAW CON OY! LIVE MOIYE LIFFFEEEEEE etc"

Jesus. Guy-liner, check. Hot Topic clothes, check. Vegan, check. Soulless, ball-less mallternative, check.

You know you're cool when everyone expects you to come out in black eyeliner, and you come out with neatly trimmed blonde hair, wearing white. RIGHT ANDY?

He's still vegan? Damn. He's definitely made up for lost time with the groupies.

OEC

[EasyRider]

A scrawny, testosterone free build like that can only be achieved through rampant veganism.

[One Eyed Cat]

A scrawny, testosterone free build like that can only be achieved through rampant veganism.

He's definitely not testosterone free irl. I've heard he's a good lay ,although I can't speak from experience . He was stone cold straight edge (and vegan i believe) when they first started out.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

I like AFI just fine. If I had to pick an album, I think there was a track on NOFX's So Long and Thanks for All the Shoes that may have put him over in my book, but it's more of an external validation thing. I like what I like and that has little to do with charts and album sales.

All I can really say is that I sure am glad I'm not trying to front a cool band these days. It looks like it must really suck. There seems to be a lot less creative latitude and respectful appreciation seems to have gone out of style. I don't envy dealing with that industry from the inside at all.

[Sceptic_Messiah]

i liked the early stuff but now they seem to have jumped the bandwagon and become whiny little emo kids like the rest of them although i guess they were one of the original whiny emo kids but now they have an excuse and overdoing it.

rockstar? no

[One Eyed Cat]

I like AFI just fine. If I had to pick an album, I think there was a track on NOFX's So Long and Thanks for All the Shoes that may have put him over in my book, but it's more of an external validation thing. I like what I like and that has little to do with charts and album sales.

All I can really say is that I sure am glad I'm not trying to front a cool band these days. It looks like it must really suck. There seems to be a lot less creative latitude and respectful appreciation seems to have gone out of style. I don't envy dealing with that industry from the inside at all.

I like their really old stuff like Key Lime Pie and Days of the Phoenix. They're still on favorites lists I keep. I just don't like the progression. I like other bands like Green Day which have been slammed senseless since '94. I don't remember the track off the NOFX album. I'd have to hear it and collate it with the earlier stuff. I am being a bit tongue-in-cheek here.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

i liked the early stuff but now they seem to have jumped the bandwagon and become whiny little emo kids like the rest of them although i guess they were one of the original whiny emo kids but now they have an excuse and overdoing it.

rockstar? no

They weren't emo at all back in the day. He's well into his 30s btw.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

...I think there was a track on NOFX's So Long and Thanks for All the Shoes...

Nevermind, I was thinking of something else and now I can't place it.

[One Eyed Cat]

Nevermind, I was thinking of something else and now I can't place it.

No problem. Those guys on are so many comps, you won't find a lot of it,

OEC

[Morning Glory]

all I have to say is that davey havok is one hot chick.

[One Eyed Cat]

all I have to say is that davey havok is one hot chick.

This is getting out of hand The few times I met Havoc, he was a complete sweetheart. I miss the days of The Misfits covers and the brief delve into horrorpunk. This was like '93 ish though. In '07, it's odd: AFI is despised by a lot of their old fans in ways other bands from the area no longer are. I don't really know why. I think its the emo aspect coming from a small town kid we saw in Bens and a 'hawk? My point in this thread is to poke a bit of fun at the perceptions we may have of "rockstars". It doesn't mean shit really.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

Yeah, pretty much all the cool bands that transitioned to wider success have to deal with crushing negativity and I think that really sucks. It makes it way too easy for them to just be replaced with manufactured crap. Real bands that paid their dues, worked hard, wrote good material, and toured hard, shouldn't be disadvantaged for having done it all for real. But instead they have to deal with all the fallout from the haters at the same time some producer is knocking off their sound for some well funded imposters. It's very discouraging.

Now, I generally like early Ministry better than late Ministry, big deal. It doesn't mean I have any reason or desire to slag off Al Jorgenson so I can sound hip or whatever. I mean, what would that prove? I kind of like early Nina Haagen mildly more than I enjoy the current performance work she does, but I wouldn't take anything away from her for exploring musically and otherwise. Davey Havok has been perfectly friendly and cool to me too and I just don't buy into the whole tear down your idols mentality. Prop them up to knock them down doesn't make sense to me at all really.

Giving respect doesn't make you a smaller person and I think too many people these days don't understand that. Although, I do think the notion of what exactly a rockstar is these days is certainly getting a little cloudy as well.

[kellie]

Davey is one of the most geniune and nice people I have ever met. I met him for the first time over 10 years ago at some dive bar in Pensacola Florida, and he was just as awesome then as he is now.

[One Eyed Cat]

Yeah, pretty much all the cool bands that transitioned to wider success have to deal with crushing negativity and I think that really sucks. It makes it way too easy for them to just be replaced with manufactured crap. Real bands that paid their dues, worked hard, wrote good material, and toured hard, shouldn't be disadvantaged for having done it all for real. But instead they have to deal with all the fallout from the haters at the same time some producer is knocking off their sound for some well funded imposters. It's very discouraging.

Now, I generally like early Ministry better than late Ministry, big deal. It doesn't mean I have any reason or desire to slag off Al Jorgenson so I can sound hip or whatever. I mean, what would that prove? I kind of like early Nina Haagen mildly more than I enjoy the current performance work she does, but I wouldn't take anything away from her for exploring musically and otherwise. Davey Havok has been perfectly friendly and cool to me too and I just don't buy into the whole tear down your idols mentality. Prop them up to knock them down doesn't make sense to me at all really.

Giving respect doesn't make you a smaller person and I think too many people these days don't understand that. Although, I do think the notion of what exactly a rockstar is these days is certainly getting a little cloudy as well.

Agreed. I respect Dave just for transcending his environment. The original members of AFI grew up in a very small hick town. They were subjected to a lot of nonsense. AFI had actually broken up after 2 of the original members left for school. They had a reunion show in my (then) hometown. They produced a 7" from the theater's sound system. It was awesome. They reunited the next year.

My experience with watching people become famous was very direct and very strange. Shortly after Green Day signed, I went to a Pinhead Gunpowder (he's also in that ftr) at the Gilman. Several people shouted insults as Billie took the stage. He was visibly shaken. Aaron Cometbus
(drummer for PG) basically had to stare down several hecklers. Unknown at the time (but rumored) was that he was considering ending G.D. He lost a lot of his "friends".

My tendency is to poke fun at the whole "rockstar" concept. I find it a bit silly and quite murky. I have some ambivalence towards the whole corporate gig. By no means, however, have I lost respect for Dave or Billie.

The last G.D. show at my theater: It was picketed. I had a female friend who was often suicidal. They made her happy. That's all that mattered and those are the memories they evoke.

OEC

[EasyRider]

all I have to say is that davey havok is one hot chick.

No wonder the chicks think he's a good lay.

[Thistle Harlequin]

no... his band is like Backstreet Boys with guitars

[Sara X]

The first time I went to Hollywood I hung out with Davey Havoc quite a few times. I was impressed to meet someone as genuinely nice as he was, especially someone in his position who can say they believe in doing (or not doing) something, then stick by it. I saw him freak out and jump up & down because he met the guy from Depeche Mode, and I saw him go all googly-eyed over a "hot chick" who turned out to just be a normal, kinda boring-looking girl. I also saw him wear the same pair of pants every day (not a different pair of the same pants) and I think that is amazing. I really thought he was a great guy. As far as him being a rockstar, I wouldn't know... I've barely ever listened to his music =)

[Satiate]

personally, i've known davey for a few years now... he's straight edge and a vegan, without being uppity to it or cracking on those who have different beliefs... he's geniune and super sweet... and someone that i am happy as hell that he's gotten some success... i believe people like him who've paid their dues by working their asses of earned the right for a little respect...

i will agree with forrest on this... if you like someone's talent, you like it... if you don't, don't... you don't need to buy their music... but don't knock someone because they become "mainstream" or "successful"... people like him make me happy that they get that foothold in... because they are the first ones to contribute to the communities they forged their ways out of, hold out a helping hand to those who've been there for them, and recognize and respect those who've been there...

davey is someone who is truly humble and down to earth...

so more power to him...

i mean, shouldn't we be slagging on people like paris hilton? those are people who've never had to work a day of their life and have every door open to them and truly do not understand consequences of their actions, and feel that privledge comes with name/birth...

people like davey who've worked for it, whether or not i like their music, well, i have to give it to them... they paid their dues and earned it...

[One Eyed Cat]

personally, i've known davey for a few years now... he's straight edge and a vegan, without being uppity to it or cracking on those who have different beliefs... he's geniune and super sweet... and someone that i am happy as hell that he's gotten some success... i believe people like him who've paid their dues by working their asses of earned the right for a little respect...

i will agree with forrest on this... if you like someone's talent, you like it... if you don't, don't... you don't need to buy their music... but don't knock someone because they become "mainstream" or "successful"... people like him make me happy that they get that foothold in... because they are the first ones to contribute to the communities they forged their ways out of, hold out a helping hand to those who've been there for them, and recognize and respect those who've been there...

davey is someone who is truly humble and down to earth...

so more power to him...

i mean, shouldn't we be slagging on people like paris hilton? those are people who've never had to work a day of their life and have every door open to them and truly do not understand consequences of their actions, and feel that privledge comes with name/birth...

people like davey who've worked for it, whether or not i like their music, well, i have to give it to them... they paid their dues and earned it...

Agree. My intention was to slag the whole "rockstar" concept. I knew Davey when he was just out of high school and AFI looked to be defunct. I am happy for him. I should not have invoked *any* names in the original post. Live and learn.

It is an understatement to say he paid his dues. He came out of an area where a 'hawk could get u beaten. He came off a scene which will be noted more for its tragedies. I don't like his new stuff, but I'd rather it be that way then a lot of the alternatives I've seen amongst our contemporaries in the North Bay Area. I generally slag the slaggers. This is anecdotal but I think a lot of people know who is actually financing the Gilman when they hit bottom every few years.

OEC

[Satiate]

Agree. My intention was to slag the whole "rockstar" concept... ...when they hit bottom every few years.
OEC

Nah, I'm all good... It's just well, it's just a weird thing, that I notice when certain bands I've met are literally cookie cutter cash-in's developed by a label get the $ and prestige, when there are bands like A.F.I. who've paid their dues get a little success, get sort of lumped in that same field... And bashed by the people who helped them get recognition... It's like Forrest said, to build someone up just to tear them down... That type of mentality, I don't get...

Having worked in the industry on many levels, whether it was a booker/promoter, buyer (for a chain of retail stores), music programmer (radio), journalist and yes, as an actual musician... I've seen how some bands are literally hand picked because they are weak and to be cashed in... Or even better, they don't even know the music they are playing live, until after the session musicians finish recording it (the whole bands not playing on their own recordings is a WHOLE OTHER THREAD) much more, WRITE their own music... And it's bands like that, that should get slagged... That we should debate whether or not, if they are truly "rock stars" or not...

It's just, maybe a defense mechanism in me... Because, I love it when friends of mine who've worked so hard on their own craft, their own music, their own designs, no matter what field of art it is, that they get recognized... I don't expect our friendships to change... But I expect them to grow as artists and not remain stagnant... The same way would hope that I grow as a person as well as an artist... I would hate to be stuck in one moment of time for the rest of my life... There are literally hundreds of bands, that in some way I've touched their career and have aided/helped/supported along their ways, some have changed and I've loved it... Others, though I don't get it, I still support, only because, well, I believe in them as artists... I don't think they are sell outs, because they go platinum... (I think because most of them still are broke ass musicians, even AFTER a platinum album...) I just don't know why I would help build someone in their career... And buy their albums, only to later knock them for it...

I think they only ones I've ever had problems with are those that deny their roots and do a face-lift on themselves trying to erase their past... The ones that say, used to be glam but are "nu-metal" slagging on people who used to buy their albums... Or ones who made fun of bands for say, making music videos, calling them sell-outs or "only in it for the money" for them to turn around and go make a video and deny they ever said anything like that...

Davey, for example, is a guy who's not forgotten who he is, or where he came from... He's someone I can say truly feels humbled when you compliment him... He handles his "success" with class... And he talks very positively about other bands he's toured/played with... I believe that there are people out there that are more "successful" that should try and take a page out of his book... Actually, let me rephrase that... I think everyone should take a page out of that book...

Some people have what I call "it" for what I consider the most important factor in being "successful", and that's in the personality... the character... Davey... he's one of the rare people out there that has "it"...

Good thread OEC *high fives*... Though please forgive me a bit, I'm really out of it at the moment, waiting for some e-mails to come in so I can finally go to sleep... (Operating on 8 hours of sleep in 6 or so days...)

[One Eyed Cat]

Satiate,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't see you as being defensive at all. You are simply being true to your experience. I have definitely benefitted from conversing with folks that are involved in the music business as a serious pursuit. What is kind of sad: People do this even on local levels. When I go back home: I'm a novelty. When I leave: 13 year old conflicts have reemerged. I don't get it. I'm a private guy. I'll say more on this in the abstract sometime.

Get some sleep man, *High Fives*

OEC