aparently im a homophobe @_@

[KilLAtomiK]

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine when the topic of gay marriage just sortof came up. she thinks gay peoples rights are bein infringed upon but i think they are asking too much for somethin they do for fun. i just find it hard to beleive people are bprn gay , i think its just somethin you grow into right? or am i way wrong on this?

[Bikerpunk]

People are born gay, kill.

[Pull~My~Hair]

yeah damn those gays and blacks being that way just cause they want to..god they should be white and straight and stop messing with everyone elses lives just for fun..

I love you kill but you're definitely wrong on this one

[KilLAtomiK]

well i have some friends that are gay and i dont think theres anything wrong with them. but the way i see it the whole reason men aand women are atracted to each other at its core is to reproduce. since 2 men and 2 women cant do that that would imply that theres something wrong with them. I just figured it was all about the fun of it wich i have no problem with

[Pull~My~Hair]

well i have some friends that are gay and i dont think theres anything wrong with them. but the way i see it the whole reason men aand women are atracted to each other at its core is to reproduce. since 2 men and 2 women cant do that that would imply that theres something wrong with them. I just figured it was all about the fun of it wich i have no problem with

i understand your point, but being gay isn't just about sex, and being straight isn't just about reproduction, it's about being attracted emotionally as well as physically and chemically toward someone. Imagine going through your life and NEVER EVER being attracted to any women..what are you suppossed to do? Just be alone the rest of your life because there is no chance of reproducing?

Well so they "choose" to follow their "gay instincts" they fall in love with someone they adopt a child (way better than reproducing anyway) .And their sig other gets into a bad accident, BUT because they aren't married, they can't go into the hopspital to see the mother/father of their child before they die because they were never allowed to sign this stupid piece of paper.

I don't believe you are a homophobe Kill , I believe that you've never had to really look at it from a different prespective. you're a good guy I don't want this to turn into a bad flame thread!

[episode allah]

I've known people that were always apparently gay (even from a young age) but never realized this for themselves until a later date.

Just because the point of sexuality is procreation doesn’t mean that other naturally occurring alternatives don’t arise. Sexuality is merely a biological spectrum and sometimes the needle pulls more to the left and sometimes more to the right.

On homosexuality being a choice: being gay in the last several hundred years has often been more trouble for the protagonist than ''fun'’ and I’m sure that many would have chosen not to be gay for convenience if possible. In the last century there’s been more people who have chosen to painstakingly hide their homosexuality than ostentatiously display it.

Gay people should have civil ceremonies with equal rights as married couples but whether or not it should be called marriage is debatable.

[KilLAtomiK]

yeah i guess i just dont understand it but i think ive always had that problem seeing things from someone elses point of view. like i said i have gay friends and i think they are cool so bein called a homophobe was just weird. since i dont have any issues with gay people. i just dont get it is all. That comment i made aboput reproduction is just somethin i thought about since i dont think animals fall in love but what do i know, i cant comunicate with them lol

[Pull~My~Hair]

lol , well I was raised around a billion gay people (i may be the original fag hag), so I guess I have heard every discussion on every topic related so I was quick to jump in and enlighten (:
I think there are only a few animals that mate for life.
Gibbon apes, wolves, termites, coyotes, barn owls, beavers, bald eagles, golden eagles, condors, swans, brolga cranes, French angel fish, sandhill cranes, pigeons, prions (a seabird), red-tailed hawks, anglerfish, ospreys, prairie voles (a rodent), and black vultures

and amazingly enough there is a list of over 450 animals that have a tendency to show homosexual behavior...there is a book...called....biological exuberance or something like that. It's about how there are tons of gay animals and they are gay in nature for a purpose..

but no, i believe a homophobe is one who is just generally disapproving or afraid of homosexual lifestyles...you my friend are not that

[Mr Karl]

people are born a lot of things............so long as it doesn't make someone hurt someone else who cares?

what about the rights of the people who are born single?

[Fleisch]

I agree.
some people think gay love is like this:
but in the end its all about people. Like dwarfs, they are born like this because of a mutation in their genes, they have trouble waving the little arms and reaching for stuff but its not disease.ITs the same with people that born gay they are a mutation but its OK, mutation is not negative is positive, is variety, we evolve though mutations.

[Amelia G]

I think about 10% of the population is born gay. At least that is the figure put forth by gay activists and I don't have any reason to think they are mistaken. In the same way that some people kinda have to be gay, I think there are plenty of people who have to be straight.

With every passing year, though, I think more and more that there are a lot of people who could go either way situationally. I mean, what percentage of the prison population has same-gender sex and same-gender relationships while locked up? How many straight-identified people have sex with their own gender under the right circumstances? It is easier to live as a straight person in most parts of our society, so most people, who could go either way, will end up living as straight.

Re: gay marriage, I think the government should recognize the civil union aspect of both gay and straight couples and stay the heck out of anything to do with marriage for either one. Separation of church and state and all that.

Maybe I just don't think children are the point of marriage because the only people I know having kids are either folks who were wealthy to begin with and would never have to work and people who are happy to suckle at the government teat. Not reproducing should not mean someone has to live and die alone.

[KilLAtomiK]

and amazingly enough there is a list of over 450 animals that have a tendency to show homosexual behavior...there is a book...called....biological exuberance or something like that. It's about how there are tons of gay animals and they are gay in nature for a purpose..

but no, i believe a homophobe is one who is just generally disapproving or afraid of homosexual lifestyles...you my friend are not that

i had no idea it was up to that extent in the wild . yeah as far as being called a homophobe i didint realy get it cause i dont think theres anything wrong with bein gay . if it feels good do it i always say

[KilLAtomiK]

Maybe I just don't think children are the point of marriage because the only people I know having kids are either folks who were wealthy to begin with and would never have to work and people who are happy to suckle at the government teat. Not reproducing should not mean someone has to live and die alone.

i dont think kids are the point of marriage either, but its what i thought the atraction between people of the oposite sex was since as far as i knew thats the whole reason animals in the wild are atracted to each other and people are just animals i think.

[batzilla]

Think about it this way. When did you first start noticing girls? Was it something you learned, something you chose, or was it something that just happened naturally? Chances are good that your sexual urges developed on their own... around puberty, you just started noticing girls and wanting to touch them. Well, gay people are naturally attracted to people of their own gender. Bi folks naturally notice and are attracted to people of both genders. So, yeah, it seems pretty clear to me that sexual preference is something you're born with.

You're right that gay people have sex for "the fun of it"... don't straight people too??? Doesn't everyone? Sex is fun! Yes, our sexual urges have to do with an evolutionary imperative to reproduce. But we don't treat sterile people any differently then we do fertile people. In our society, sex and love and marriage are NOT all about having kids. Lots of straight people just don't want kids and are never going to have any, and we don't tell them they can't get married. And people who are gay often do want kids, and they can adopt them or get artifically inseminated or emply the services of a surrogate mother.

[batzilla]

If you don't hate or fear queer people then, no, you are NOT a homophobe. Congrats! But you will probably continue to get that reaction from some people if you say things like:
- gay couples are asking for "too much" by wanting the same legal rights that straight couples in committed relationships have
- you find it "hard to believe" that gay people are born that way... so, what, do you think they're lying?
- you think that there's "something wrong" with gay people because they don't get each other pregnant

All of that comes off as pretty harsh, man.

[mystoo]

Re: gay marriage, I think the government should recognize the civil union aspect of both gay and straight couples and stay the heck out of anything to do with marriage for either one. Separation of church and state and all that.

I totally agree with this. I think if gay people wanna get married and be miserable like everyone else, all the power to 'em. Who elses freaking business is it? Really, I just don't get why people (the gov't) make such a big deal about it.

[Amelia G]

Yeah, all the speeches where politicians yap about how they would approve recognizing gay civil unions so someone could visit their partner in the hospital, but they would not approve of gay marriage really piss me off.

First of all, wtf is wrong with our healthcare system that we allow insurance companies and bureaucrats to decide what will be done to us and who will be near us when we are at our most vulnerable?

Second of all, I do not think it is the place of government to recognize or not recognize marriage in any way beyond the legal. I mean, duh!

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Just the tax breaks gay couples are missing out on by not being allowed to be married is a travesty. Not that you marry for tax breaks, but I think that's one good reason right there, among many others, to make it legal. How is it in this day and age, it seems everybody has what's considered equal rights except gay people. What exactly does "equal rights" mean anyway? Isn't it supposed to be for every citizen in the U.S.?

[Amelia G]

Just the tax breaks gay couples are missing out on by not being allowed to be married is a travesty. Not that you marry for tax breaks, but I think that's one good reason right there, among many others, to make it legal. How is it in this day and age, it seems everybody has what's considered equal rights except gay people. What exactly does "equal rights" mean anyway? Isn't it supposed to be for every citizen in the U.S.?

The idea that marriage gives people tax breaks is a throwback to 1950's social structures and is frankly a complete misconception.

If you make a lot of money and you marry someone who makes a moderate amount of money, then you may get a tax break. Otherwise . . .

If you make a moderate amount of money and you marry someone who makes a moderate amount of money, then you will both pay more in taxes. If you make a moderate amount of money and you marry someone on public assistance, they will lose their public assistance. If you make a lot of money and you marry someone who makes a lot of money, then you will both pay more in taxes. If you are on public assistance and you marry someone on public assistance, you will both get lower benefits.

[OliX]

Fact is that no one is 100% straight

Most homophobes probably fear their inner self by fearing other gay people

Did you know that it's normal in Arabian countries for best friends to hold their hands together. In ancient Greece homosexuality was something totally normal and quite popular between soldiers.

[Morning Glory]

I don't think people are born gay. I think they become gay (or straight) near the time their body starts releasing hormones and they start developing reproduction and adult physiology.

of course, it seems that sexuality is predominantly tied up in psychology more than biology.

We really don't know why people lean one way versus the other. Just like we don't know why people become male or female. At some point in development the embryo just "decides" it and releases proteins to tell the cells to develop into the appropriate organs. A similar process is most likely what determines sexual preference.

[episode allah]

I don't think people are born gay. I think they become gay (or straight) near the time their body starts releasing hormones and they start developing reproduction and adult physiology.

Contrary to what you think, plenty of scientists believe that homosexuality is genetic in many cases.

[OliX]

Neither is yet proved to be true.

[OliX]

I reason that sexual preference is psychological factor, so it still strikes me that sexual preference, which is state of mind, might be genetically decided. It would mean that all other philias are genetic as well.

[Mr Karl]

just out of curiosity...............do the guys in utah who supposedly have like half a dozen wives get the same priviledges as married people?

[inox]

Re: gay marriage, I think the government should recognize the civil union aspect of both gay and straight couples and stay the heck out of anything to do with marriage for either one. Separation of church and state and all that.

This is my exact opinion on this issue. Batzilla and I were just discussing that this morning.

*high five*

[Morning Glory]

Contrary to what you think, plenty of scientists believe that homosexuality is genetic in many cases.

my point was that people may be born with genetic predetermination, but sexuality, especially as a character concept is not something that people are aware of in childhood. assuming that a toddler even knew what it meant, I don't think that she'd be able to tell you if she was straight or gay.

really that doesn't have much of a bearing on anything, I'm just saying. I've always thought it what people do in their sex lives is for the most part their own business, if they want to talk about it, fine, if not then that's up to them.

My family was pretty traditional read:closed minded, not out of intolerance, but just from a lack of experience. as a result, naturally my older siblings and myself veered away from that. From adolescence I was used to being around people that were gay and it always struck me as perfectly normal and matter-of-fact, I never understood why people make such a fuss about it.

[Bikerpunk]

since 2 men and 2 women cant do that that would imply that theres something wrong with them

If you don't want to appear that you hate something, perhaps you shouldn't suggest there's "something wrong with them".

[Buster Friendly]

there's something wrong with all of you.

you are all deeply, deeply, disturbingly wrong.

and it has nothing to do with what you do, or don't do with your sticky bits.

just wrong.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

The thing is, what difference does it really make if people are born gay or become gay?

I was not born being attracted to tall, malicious redheads, but no one will raise a fuss if I want to marry one. The whole born gay or became gay is an issue that should be irrelevant to the argument. The real argument should be, should what two or more consenting adults do with there sex or their emotions be any business of the government in any way?

As far as marriage goes, the big problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of what marriage is. It has nothing to do with children, or love, or even christian culture. It is a contract designed to continue the smooth transition of property. Once you accept that notion, it is pretty easy to fix the problems we have with marriage. Make it contract law and (in the eyes of the government at least) drop any pretense of love, nuclear families and god. It would save a lot of time and we could replace all the implied bullshit (monogamy, subservience, ect) with actual stated bullshit.

I will go one farther in the gay marriage issue. I believe that two straight men or women should be able to be joined in this contract. They agree to share property and benefits until the marriage is dissolved, no love, no sex, just a partnership.

Just my late night rum soaked take on the whole thing.

[babyswitchblade]

Sure there are the 'fashionably gay' or 'fashionably bisexual' folks out there who do it merely for attention, but gay people sure are born that way. I went to school with this kid, who was also my neighbour, and we always thought, "he's too much of a girl to be straight"..... he never had a girlfriend, and sure enough, he's as gay as they get!

Gay people aren't gay 'for fun', it's the way they are, it's not really their choice - it's their choice to embrace it or deny it, that's all. They should have just as much right to marry who they want as a heterosexual person does. That's my opinion, anyway.

[OliX]

And then again. No one is 100% straight. Or gay in this case.

There's a scale and you might end up anywhere on it. I think I'm in the middle, just a little bit on the straight side

[Dusk]

there's something wrong with all of you.

you are all deeply, deeply, disturbingly wrong.

and it has nothing to do with what you do, or don't do with your sticky bits.

just wrong.

Yes there is, and we can express how unique or "weird as you put it here, normally without judgment.
And olix, I think your absolutley correct.

[Head Wreck]

Yeah, all the speeches where politicians yap about how they would approve recognizing gay civil unions so someone could visit their partner in the hospital, but they would not approve of gay marriage really piss me off.

First of all, wtf is wrong with our healthcare system that we allow insurance companies and bureaucrats to decide what will be done to us and who will be near us when we are at our most vulnerable?

Second of all, I do not think it is the place of government to recognize or not recognize marriage in any way beyond the legal. I mean, duh!

+1

[soma_stardust]

That comment i made aboput reproduction is just somethin i thought about since i dont think animals fall in love but what do i know, i cant comunicate with them lol

there is evidence of homosexuality in non-human animals.

~soma~

[soma_stardust]

And then again. No one is 100% straight. Or gay in this case.

There's a scale and you might end up anywhere on it. I think I'm in the middle, just a little bit on the straight side

amen.
i planted myself firmly in the belief that i was a lesbian (once i figured out that i was.) then... i fell in love with a guy. who i'm living with and will let me have girlfriends.
so, i call myself a mostly-lesbian. i'm like 99%

~soma~

[Vix]

gay straight.. who cares, a couple is 2 ppl.. thats it end of

[Bacchus88]

if marriage was holy union, you would not have ramped divorce. Vix is right, who cares ....

[Morning Glory]

This is the 90's, gay, straight, it's all the same thing.

[Mr Karl]

so, how long till bisexual bigamy's cool?

yeah, I know........baby steps.........