Islam - Religion of Peace

[Nudemuse]

Thank you Amelia.

[Amethyst]

It doesn't ask skills from president to start a war. Only thing that Bush started the war for was that he would be elected next time too. Keeping up peace needs skills from president. Don't want to step on anyones toes but Bush's family hasn't been very skillfull at keeping peace up. You know that Bush's father gave part of the needed weapons and money to Osama and he's troops. That's one thing that made possible Osama to take over at Afganistan, and you know that is one of the reasons there were thousands of women and children killed. And that is one of the reasons why 9/11 happened. One of the reasons they are so angry to western people are the politics that we and you have practiced there. Try to see it from their angle. I know, it's easy for me to speak because I don't live there and I don't have to worry if I get killed by terrorist, but you still have much bigger chance to get strangled by your mother than getting killed by terrorist. I don't know if I should have participated to this conversation because I don't live in US so it's not my business. Thought war at muslim world would touch the hole world. Just try to see the hole picture, coverments do bad things even our own ones.

[Kidthorazine]

After looking at the pictures and reading the debate I have one thing to say: theese pictures are disturbing but not as disturbing as pictures if seen of little kids with limbs that got blown off when American tomahawk cruise missles hit thier apartment buildings in Iraq during the first phase of Bush's war so ask yourself if we are really any better

[SomethingSelfrighteous]

But you wouldn't catch me dead in one of those muslim cesspool countries unless I had an M-16 in my hand.

ive spent half my life in several of those so-called "cesspool countries" and i'd go back in seconds

[TheDeathKnight]

Here's the deal with the current situation:

It's a simple analogy.
Wild animals.
(No ethnic or religious insult intended)

If a wild animal came into your house, and killed your baby, what do you do?

Go track down the animal, and kill it.

Ok. Makes sense...

But what if you are tracking one rabid beast, and you follow it into it's hole.
And in that hole, are 30 other beasts. And they all start biting you, etc...

So you retreat to figure out what to do.

In that hole, is one rabid beast, that killed your baby, and several more that are mean,
and all the female animals are in there, defending their home, and their babies...

So... what we are doing, is saying we want to kill just the mean ones, or just the
rabid ones, and not the women and children, and the innocent ones living in the same hole...

Now one way to end the problem, is to just toss a bomb or gasoline, into the lair,
and just kill them all. In the large scheme of things, that is genocide. It works,
but not really politically correct...

What we are trying to do, is go into the lairs, and trying to keep everything
under control. We are trying to hold down some of them, while the babies
are crying, then the mothers start to bite us in defense, and every animal
in the hole, gets mad, because you are invading. They probably don't even
know or care about the rabid one who killed your baby. All they know, is you
showed up in their home, and started killing and injuring everyone... Children,
old people, women, men, everyone. And rather than retreating, or killing them
all, we are trying to hold on to them tighter. But these are angry animals
at this point. And they are just going to scratch and bite harder, the more
you try to hold them closely. You hold one down, and the others will
bite you from behind. You kill one fighter, and the other ones will still hate
you, because you killed one of their family. Then they will attack you too...

So here is the more practical approach.

An animal gets into your house, and kills your child.

You can't change how some animals are.
A deer is nice, a bear might try to eat you.
You can't always tame a wild animal, regardless.
They are out there in the woods.
You can't do too much about that fact.

But you can keep your home secure...
Ok, I'm fine with that.

But what if they keep trying to get in, and keep destroying things, being a nuisance
in your yard, tearing everything up?

Well, when you see them out there, and you see the rabid, aggressive ones,
you can kill those ones. You can shoot them, from the protection of your home.
Or you can bait them. Leave a fake baby, with poison, and teach them not to
come take things from your house, or they will suffer...

See, there is a lot we can do to train, and punish, and teach terrorists not to mess with us.
And there are selective ways of destroying them, tricking them, and infiltrating them...

But to go into their homeland? Into their nest?
Unless you are prepared to destroy everything, or control everything, you will lose...
They will not back down...

The situation in Russia is a perfect example.
The russians are a lot more brutal about winning their war on terror,
and they failed in Afghanistan, and they are failing in Chechnya.
Every rebel they killed, created new rebels. All the suicide bombers
in those planes, and in that gymnasiums, were the "Black Widows".
Women, whose husbands were killed by Russians. The same thing
happens in Israel, and will happen in Iraq. Every rebel you kill
in Iraq, that man's relatives, and son, and wife, all of them will
be shooting RPGs at US troops the next time they roll through
that town. So you have to either kill them all, or figure out a better
answer to the problem of 9/11. I do not think this kind of "War on Terror"
can be won. Not this way... We do not have the balls to kill them all.
We are too politically correct. If you were saying that the difference
between Bush and Kerry's war policy, was the debate of whether
to do surgical strikes, or total destruction, then you might have
a debate worth having. But right now, Bush and the US military
are just as much pussies as anyone else. They are afraid of bad
prison conditions, afraid of collateral damage, afraid to hurt civilians, etc...

My general opinion is that Israel has a pretty decent plan.
They have been dealing with this shit a lot longer than we have.
And their answer, is to build a wall.
Keep them out.
If one of them makes it through, and kills Israelis,
they blow up that person's house. And when they find out about
where terrorists are, they blow them up. Or assasinate them.
You can even punish the leadership of that country, or their people,
if you want to take it to another level. Which is that if that other
country keeps bombing you, you will bomb the shit out of them
in response. Like we did in Afghanistan. If you want to harbor
terrorists, we will bomb the crap out of you. But if you play
nice, and behave, we will leave you alone...

It's like dealing with a wild animal.

Bite the USA, and you will be kicked or killed.

But we are trying to hold down a porcipine.

[OliX]

sorry TheDeathKnight, but most of your post is bullshit.... honestly, you don't have good wiev on things..... and how can you speak so about Israel when Israel's gov is comiting crime agains humanity...
can't you see more objectively on things?

[Morning Glory]

How will re-electing Bush help with whatever you feel the photos mean?

He means that If we re-elect Bush then we'll be seeing a lot more bloody, dead bodies.

[Morning Glory]

oh yeah, and don't support democracy or anything like that, fuck these chechan assholes. The only used to be a peaceful people until they were invaded by Russia, fought back and won there independance, without U.S help by the way, and then were invaded and taken over AGAIN By Russia. Why should we support scum like that? better to support a country like Russia who poisoned to death hundreds of it's own citizens in an attempt to kill a dozen Chechan "terrorists", cuz they've got backbone, right, they take care of what needs to get done.

[Foxbird]

*reads thread, shakes head, goes back to porn*

[Caligula]

It always makes me laugh when people are sooo proud of something they have nothing to do with. Like where they were born. Gung ho Americans have won every war they've ever fought. In Hollywood. Back in the real world things ain't so peachy.

America is a big country with plenty of resources that profited from the last Two World Wars that broke the backs of the old powers, particularly the British Empire. Don't get me wrong, we were very grateful (though you were kind of late). A century ago, we were in the position the US Empire is in today, and we thought nothing could shake our grip upon the largest empire the world has ever seen. We were, quite obviously, wrong. Some of us were arrogant. We could afford to be stupid. We made mistakes.

To most outside the US the election of Bush is incomprehensible (and very probably rigged). He represents the common man only in as much he's an idiot. He's from the same cabal of corrupt career politicians who armed most of the Muslim Fundamentalists in the first place. It's easy to be brave with other people's lives, especially if you're functionally retarded. He's also a coward. Remember September 11th? What was his first impulse? He ran into the deepest fall out shelter he could find (there was a cartoon of him in his bunker saying 'Armageddon? Armageddon? Armageddon outta here!'). Most worryingly perhaps, he's a burn again Christian, characters who in their way are as bad as their Islamic opposite numbers. Nobody, I mean nobody who believes in an afterlife should ever be anywhere near any weapons of mass destruction. On which note...

If you re-elect Bush you deserve everything you get. The rest of the world, however, does not.

[Mirren]

What about what the Russians are doing to the Chechnyen people? No one has mentioned that. They have killed hundreds of their kids, violate and killed their women/young girls , some aged as young as 9, and taken the men/sons from their families never to be seen again. I don't agree with these type of tactics for either side. Putin can leave Chechnya alone but he doesn't, there is a lot of oil in that region and Russia is a big oil producer, you do the math.The main problem is a lot of people aren't educated on both sides, they see one side, identify with it, and that's all their brain can absorb. I was saddened by what happened to these people in Beslan but they really need to get a wake up call on Vladimir Putin's agenda concerning Chechnya.

I agree with the Afghanistan stance but Iraq, certainly not. It has been looking like Bush will take this election or it will be close. Many Americans don't realize the impact of his actions and what that has done to the way every other country looks at us as a whole. I travel to Europe, it isn't pretty what they think of Americans. And I have to live with his actions and be judged. He isn't getting my vote.

[koolagh]

<quote> 1. What are the photos of?
Children slaughted by muslims.

What about the children slaughtered here in Waco by U.S. soldiers? Does this mean we should support any president in favor of abolishing a military force here?

[koolagh]

Forrest for president, end of subject.

[TheDeathKnight]

sorry TheDeathKnight, but most of your post is bullshit.... honestly, you don't have good wiev on things..... and how can you speak so about Israel when Israel's gov is comiting crime agains humanity...
can't you see more objectively on things?

I wasn't really going into detail about the Israel situation.
It was just an example to make my point.
I am pretty objective when it comes to that situation as well as the one in Russia.

My point is this: Israel, and Russia, take a "hard line" approach to dealing with terrorists. No mercy. They are harsh, they kill people, torture people, etc... They are not nice... And yet.... Guess what? They still have not "defeated" the terrorists. The terrorists keep murdering their people. And they are far more harsh on the terrorists than the US will ever be.

I'm not saying Israel and Russia are right or wrong. I'm not even saying the terrorists are right or wrong. Maybe they all have valid reasons to be pissed off.

My point is that if you are going to fight someone, and try to win a "war", you need to win. And that means total destruction of that country, and those people, like in WW2. Germany, Japan, etc... You beat the shit out of them, until they give up. Anyone who will not give up, is wiped out. When the war is over, there are no more rebels, etc... You win the war by totally and completely crushing and occupying the country you invade. If the people fight back against you, you destroy them. We do not have the supplies, troops, resources, or support, to "win" a war on terrorism.

Israel, and Russia, and Iraq, are good examples of that.

But if you are unwilling to destroy the enemy utterly,
then you need to come up with a plan for isolating them,
and trying to prevent attacks, etc...

I was not trying to say Israel is so cool or anything. Nor Russia.
It's just that both of them have experience in this area, and they failed.
They have not won their wars on terror.

If you look at history, the UK is a great example.
Their colonies almost all rebelled against foreign rule.
Guess who? The USA. Remeber that Revoloutionary war?
Where we did not follow the rules of war, we hid in the
bushes, and ambushed British caravans, and ran away?
Sound familiar? Sounds like a rebel insurgency to me...
And guess what? We won. Now we are trying to control
a country where the people do not want us there...

[Tequila Zaire]

I travel to Europe, it isn't pretty what they think of Americans. And I have to live with his actions and be judged. He isn't getting my vote.

It was never that high to begin with...Europe has always found something they hated about the U.S. no matter who's in office...that's always been the case and always will be.

What Europe likes to happily forget is that Americans are made up of immagrents who LEFT EUROPE...and those who've zero to do or care for them. My parents were from Mexico so Europe is a bit of a sore spot if you look at Mexican history. Still is in various parts of the country.

No matter where you travel views of other nations are rarely good...that's why people live in the nations they do. India looks down on Pakistan....N.Korea looks down on S.Korea...China pretty much has the "Us vs. Them" mentality common in any nation.

Europe being sore at the U.S. over Iraq, being an "empire", being arrogant, liking baseball, not liking soccor, etc.

Cry me a fucking river...the continent is not exactly the peace loving shangrila of the western world. Every nation that bitches about the U.S. right now has a recent history of the SAME FUCKING CONFLICTS the U.S. is in now...France is still dealing with Algeria, Sweden is now dealing with their own influx of Muslims and immagrants as a whole, Russia has chechnya, England still has N.Ireland and Iraq...along with still having hand in former colonies...

European colonialism is what made the world what it is today for good or ill...and the fallout is happening now more than ever.

Look at the history of Iraq in the last 100 years...how can anyone with even the most basic of education NOT have seen this conflict coming like a giant semi truck on the road barrling down on ya?

Peace is a nice ideal...so is diplomacy...but "being liked" should never be the foreign policy of any nation...it's juvinile and silly.

During the "peaceful" Clinton years Europe still bitched at us and despised the U.S. for it's Superpower status and having the gaul to tell other nations what democracy should be. The U.N. delegations spent day after day bitching about the acts in Somalia, Israel, Bosnia, N.Korea...and what the U.S. SHOULD do...

The sooner we stop trying to be happy hand holding friends the better off we'll be and we can focus on real stability and peace in a realistic manner.

Reality is not a John Lennon song people....

[Tequila Zaire]

<quote> 1. What are the photos of?
Children slaughted by muslims.

What about the children slaughtered here in Waco by U.S. soldiers? Does this mean we should support any president in favor of abolishing a military force here?

Well it was a democrat in office dude...so it didn't happen. Didn't you get that memo?

Fuck...I don't see Michael Moore doing a movie about that eh?

Bill Hicks did a great comment on that situation that nails it beautifully.

[Mirren]

Tequila Zaire: You back the US? And your family is from Mexico?? Ok...
Apparently you don't seem to remember what they took from us as a people. I am Mexican too. Why is it that when another nationality comes to this country illegally they are defectors but Mexicans are aliens? Think about that. USA treats Mexicans like shit. I thought everybody knew that. You apparently missed the fences around the borders in some areas. They fucking welcome everyone else with open arms, not the Mexicans though.

[Mirren]

Concerning your comment of "being liked" as a basis of foreign policy; I agree that you cannnot base it on popularity contests, however, it is also important to have a foreign policy which does not place you in the position of being the most hated nation on Earth. I also agree that the european nations have been as oppressive in their respective histories as the United States, yet it seems that after having been through two world wars they have come of age and no longer regard war as the first and easiest option to international conflicts. The people of the United States ,however, are not familiar with the intense horrors of war and this explains their eager impetuousity towards Rambo/Hollywood solutions to complex global problems. Whereas the rest of the civilized world spends its national resources on the welfare of their people the United States has regressed further into Corporate Imperialism. The Iraq war is simply the process of tearing down a country in order to allow our corporations to profit from the reconstruction that follows. The U.S. military is in the service not of defense of the nation but employed as the strong arm of U.S. economic interests. Iraq was a country of opportunity; if the price gets too high for the military then the money can simply be pumped out of the ground with the ostensible explanation that the oil belongs to the Iraqi people, for the reconstruction of their nation, but the oil made the entire military campaign possible in the first place.

[Tequila Zaire]

Tequila Zaire: You back the US? And your family is from Mexico?? Ok...

What we're suppose to be like those Mecha fucks? They came HERE and built a life HERE not on Mexico...hell they faced more classism there than they did here. My moms side of the family owned a tabacco plantation that was pretty much stolen by the Mexican government...you want to see corruption and thievery in the most blatent manner? travel around the rural areas of Mexico. I love the country and it's people but the U.S. is what gave my family opportunity to achieve what they really wanted...and it's payed off. Hell my mom works for the U.S. Government now...not all Mexicans hate this country or lack patriotism for it. While I may not see eye to eye with the government and mainstream society about "illegal Aliens" I still back it.

Apparently you don't seem to remember what they took from us as a people. I am Mexican too.

Well so did the church, france, and spain...and corrupt mexican nationals as well. EVERYONE took from Mexico...Pancho Villa pretty much nailed it on th head in terms of what happened to Mexico...look what it got him...look at Mexico today. Racism and classism is as bad as any other nation and all it does is weaken Mexico as a whole.

Why is it that when another nationality comes to this country illegally they are defectors but Mexicans are aliens? Think about that.

I'm in L.A. I don't have to think about it...trust me. I see it each day and when I visit certain family. It's a double standard that is unfair and total bullshit...but no amount of blaming "white america" is gonna change it. The U.S. has a history of screwing over the new immagrant class...but I have faith that as our numbers rise this will change.

USA treats Mexicans like shit. I thought everybody knew that. You apparently missed the fences around the borders in some areas. They fucking welcome everyone else with open arms, not the Mexicans though.

So does the rest of the world...and we're not the only ones treated like that...you may want to talk to the Asian community in your area. We may not get a parade and welcoming committe but we've still managed to make lives for ourselves here or did you miss all that?

You have two choices as an immagrant coming to this great nation...accept the bullshit and fight through it...or let it break you and do nothing. No place gives on an easy ride...if your reasoning was true...Mexicans wouldn't risk so much coming here...so it's safe to say they see potential here they do not see in their home nation.

That was the case for my parents and family...and I'm not about to say "Fuck the U.S." after all it's allowed for us to achieve. It's not perfect yet...but it's not to the level where we can't rise above the imperfections. It's not like I want to join some country club and sip champagne with the upper crust...like others I jsut want a chance at whatever dream I have.

Love it or hate it the U.S. allows that...and has a long rich history of that. Look at the Irish in america...they at one point were treated as god awful as any other new immagrant class...

Plus to be frank...I'm not seen as Mexican in Mexico...I'm seen as an American cause I was born here in the states. So no matter where I go that's how I'm seen...I accept it and embrace it cause this IS my country...and my home.

Simple as that...I'm an American.

[Mirren]

Tequila Zaire: I respect your right to your opinion,and you made valid points. I think I now remembered why I stay out of political debates. I was born here too and I am an American as well , we have that choice to think as we wish, so I will leave it at that.

[Tequila Zaire]

Concerning your comment of "being liked" as a basis of foreign policy; I agree that you cannnot base it on popularity contests, however, it is also important to have a foreign policy which does not place you in the position of being the most hated nation on Earth.

And that matters why? Look at China...not exactly well loved and it continues to prosper...it's not about love or hate...it's about a government looking out for it's best intrests not the worlds.

I also agree that the european nations have been as oppressive in their respective histories as the United States, yet it seems that after having been through two world wars they have come of age and no longer regard war as the first and easiest option to international conflicts.

That's what they said after every conflict they've been involved in. This "peace" in europe is mearly a cooling off point...it won't last. Historically it never does.

The people of the United States ,however, are not familiar with the intense horrors of war and this explains their eager impetuousity towards Rambo/Hollywood solutions to complex global problems.

Hollywood is one thing...the pain of the US families who've lost those to wars around the world is another. I wouldn't mix the two. American familes know the horrors of war as well as any people...

Whereas the rest of the civilized world spends its national resources on the welfare of their people the United States has regressed further into Corporate Imperialism. The Iraq war is simply the process of tearing down a country in order to allow our corporations to profit from the reconstruction that follows. The U.S. military is in the service not of defense of the nation but employed as the strong arm of U.S. economic interests. Iraq was a country of opportunity; if the price gets too high for the military then the money can simply be pumped out of the ground with the ostensible explanation that the oil belongs to the Iraqi people, for the reconstruction of their nation, but the oil made the entire military campaign possible in the first place.

I'm sorry but that statement is an absolute joke of ultra biased bullshit. I hate to be blunt like that but if you honestly think the U.S. is the only nation to have the mentality of big buisness then you need to travel more. Ecenomic intrests drive ALL governments in their choices and the aquisition of valuable resources is nearly always at the heart of conflcit...why is that to change now? The rest of the civilised world sepnds it's national recorces on it's people? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA...travel to most nations in Asia and see how untrue that is...hell the major problem Europe faced in the 90's (and still does to a degree) was "Brain Drain"...they were losing their best and brightest to other ecenomic powers around the world.

It's really hard for me to take your statement seriously when it fails to look at the cold hard reality that they rest of the world is jsut as greedy and fucked up as the U.S. Corperate Imperialistic Uber-Beast is made out to be...

But then again I've never bought into "Big Buisness is Bad" mentality...it's far to essential to an advanceing world economy and social structure. It's not perfect...but it's thankfully not socialist.

Plus look at the world economy...it's a shark filled water of special interests around the world...and each of them look after their own.

The welfare of the people rank high...but no higher or lower than what you'll find around the U.S.

If the U.S. government didn't look after it's people they wouldn't be the ones filling the key roles in corporate america...or as consumers in general...I'm sorry but none of this is so one sided that their are absolutes in any area.

[Tequila Zaire]

Tequila Zaire: I respect your right to your opinion,and you made valid points. I think I now remembered why I stay out of political debates. I was born here too and I am an American as well , we have that choice to think as we wish, so I will leave it at that.

And that's the real fun of it all...paid with blood at that.

[TheDeathKnight]

The whole immigrant/illegal alien issue is mainly because of the close border to the US, and the big difference in the economic situation in those two countries. If things were better in Mexico, people would not leave to the US in droves. But because they do, it becomes excessive. Then you have to decide what you want. To be fair, and let the immigrants in, and let them do their best. Or do you keep them out, so your pay and standard of living is higher? Realisticly, if you have 2X as many people in the USA, and you are applying for a job, there is a higher chance that someone else will get it. If you cut the population in half, there would be double the chance that you would get that job. Just because of how many qualified applicants there would be. It's simple math. And people do not like the idea that when immigrants come here, and work harder, and get the jobs, then they end up as the middle class, and the lazy white people end up not getting those jobs, and end up poor, and in trailer parks... Letting immigrants in is the "fair" thing to do. But when people realize it does affect their life, then they start complaining to the government about it. I suppose if all countries had open borders, it would all even out. But even so, it would still mean the standard of living in the US would be much lower... Countries tend to try to protect their own interests... To keep the people happy...

[Tequila Zaire]

The whole immigrant/illegal alien issue is mainly because of the close border to the US, and the big difference in the economic situation in those two countries. If things were better in Mexico, people would not leave to the US in droves. But because they do, it becomes excessive. Then you have to decide what you want. To be fair, and let the immigrants in, and let them do their best. Or do you keep them out, so your pay and standard of living is higher? Realisticly, if you have 2X as many people in the USA, and you are applying for a job, there is a higher chance that someone else will get it. If you cut the population in half, there would be double the chance that you would get that job. Just because of how many qualified applicants there would be. It's simple math. And people do not like the idea that when immigrants come here, and work harder, and get the jobs, then they end up as the middle class, and the lazy white people end up not getting those jobs, and end up poor, and in trailer parks... Letting immigrants in is the "fair" thing to do. But when people realize it does affect their life, then they start complaining to the government about it. I suppose if all countries had open borders, it would all even out. But even so, it would still mean the standard of living in the US would be much lower... Countries tend to try to protect their own interests... To keep the people happy...

All of that really touches on the problem other natiosn of have of immigrants coming in near their old age to take advantage of social services (usually healthcare and housing related)...a friend of mine mentioned years back their was problem in parts of England with portugese immigrants coming in for similar reasons. Japan is currently experiencing such problems as are countless african nations...but all this is really a topic unto itself.

[Jax]

These photos speak volumes. I supposed you're a Kerry liberal who wants to wage a more "sensitive" war on terror?

They speak volumes. Of a stupid ass bible thumper using war as an excuse to do daddys dirty deeds. I AM a Kelly supporter, and fuck you if you dont like it;]

Like I was just discussing, theres a better way to fight. And thats by using intelligence.

[Jax]

You don't know what I am at all. I think you should have the capacity to make your own point and not use out of context pictures of horror. Are you preaching insensitivity and force while railing against people who use terror as a tactic?

Apparantly you have to support Bush, or your oversensitive and liberal. Please.

And its amazing how they are using the same tactics as the terrorists to try and get their point across. *rolling eyes* Hello pot...

[Jax]

I don't consider these "shock" photos as I found them on Yahoo news, a respected news website. But anyway, let's have an intelligent discussion. Who, after viewing these photos, can argue against re-electing our president? I await your responses.

Bush is crap. Thats my arguement. Hes using the same tactics as the terrorists. Real intelligent.

VOTE KERRY.

[Morning Glory]

What about what the Russians are doing to the Chechnyen people? No one has mentioned that.

um..just for the record, yeah, I did. go look.

[Jax]

Kerry doesn't have the backbone to stand up to these pigs. He favors withdrawing from Iraq far too early. He'd rather fight the terrorists on the streets of New York than Baghdad. We have yet to have a major attack on our soil since 9/11. Kerry and the democrats have historically favored a weak military. They're more interested in fighting a politically correct, "sensitive" war than achieving victory. Kerry's words, not mine.

HELLO! We live in America. Terrorists on the NY streets are FAR more likely to affect this country than anyone in Iraq. I guess you forgot Iraq wasnt responsible for 9/11. Osama was. I dont see how thats so hard to not figure out.

[Jax]

YES. A civilized society is more desirable than an Islamic society. If you disagree move to Saudi Arabia. If they want war, I am all in favor of giving it to them.

Your SN says it all. You are a nausiating pain in my head.

Ive lived in the third world countries you are talking about. So that blows your arguement. Got anything intelligent to say? YOU are the reason why this war started, and people like you. Pat yourself on the back.

[pedar]

reading this thread (or scanning briefly) - just underscores-imo- why arguing abt politics or religion is usually a waste of time..People's poliltical views are usuallydeeply emotional - and thus, any 'debates' abt such become personal--
Unless you have the kind of measured discussion one will only usually see in either academic journals or the Atlantic.
Another good reason to stick to kinky sex threads..Erudite Lech Pedar.

[Morning Glory]

"you have to support Bush, or your oversensitive and liberal." Yeah, that's how it is. or how they like to make it seem. You have the right idea about the Bush administration jax, but don't beleive thier lies and play into thier game. It's all the same fucking thing. It's just the illusion of choice to pacify the american people into thinking that there vote counts. 98% of the people who make up our government officials, we don't vote for. We don't vote for the senate, congress, or the supreme court. And no matter who you vote for, it's still Big Business that controls the lobbeying power, controls the taxes, controls the graft and controls our foreign policy. You really think that all our BS in the middle east is about "terrorists" and religious jihads ( both christian and muslim)? It's about one thing: $$$ and I don't see any president in the near and distant future that's going to put a stop to that.

[Jax]

Humorously, in fact I did mean to say IQ. You are still too stupid to post here. Let me explain to your pitifully uneducated and dim ass how to make an intelligent point with illustrations.

In general: What are the photos of? What do you feel the photos mean? What is your topic or thesis? How do the photos relate to your topic or thesis?

In specific: How do these photos relate to President Bush? How do these photos relate to Islam? What does Bush have to do with Islam and dead or injured people? What does Islam have to do with Bush and dead or injured people? What do dead or injured people have to do with Bush and Islam? How will re-electing Bush help with whatever you feel the photos mean?

Extra credit: How can a many times decorated veteran of US wars have less backbone than an AWOL National Guardsman? There are reasons to vote Republican this year, but yours do not appear to be very well though out.

Very well put! If we are a civilized society, this moron OBVIOUSLY hasnt been to the prisons lately. Should I post pics of the Oklahoma bombing, mass suicide, crimes on the street, child pornography, *****, etc... to show just how 'civilized' this country is?

Give me a break.

[Jax]

Us or them, Forrest? Choose your side.

If thats the case, and 'us' is people like you...then them;] Thanks for making THAT decision easy!

[Tequila Zaire]

Very well put! If we are a civilized society, this moron OBVIOUSLY hasnt been to the prisons lately. Should I post pics of the Oklahoma bombing, mass suicide, crimes on the street, child pornography, *****, etc... to show just how 'civilized' this country is?

Give me a break.

I agree with the sentiment but that all applies to any major country...they are evils every nation has with little government can do to stop them from occuring.

[Jax]

I am not uneducated. I have more education than probably anybody on this board. I will answer all of your questions.

Dont ASSume you are more educated than anyone on this board. I had my associates degree before I finished high school. BUT, Im a firm believer that school doesnt make you anymore educated than the next person, unless of course you call being able to do calculus 'more educated'.

Do please continue to pride yourself on your education. You lack intelligence and social skills. Ill defineately find some pictures to show you how 'civilized' America is, starting with Laci Petersons pregnant dead body. From there Ill go on to point out child pornography (Id never post pictures like that simply because of emotions), and then move on to crimes in our streets. Ill also include some bombings in our own country by our own people against our own people, starting with the Oklahoma bombing.

[Jax]

[QUOTE=karyn]I have an idea because I read your site biography, "bio:
i was born during the cold war of the 20th century, the most violent century in the history of man. i didn't talk for two years. i still don't talk much. i could read by the age of three. my school grades were good - not great - but only because i don't want them to be great. i can do anything. i learned three foreign languages but forgot much of them due to disuse. i have a b.a. in biology and a b.s. in computer science, as well as minors in mathematics and physics. i am going to be a software engineer for the forseeable future. i am moving to new york city within the next two years. i enjoy stargazing, but not in new york city. i enjoy imbibing. i sanded and finished two bookshelves and a nighttable. i ponder highway constrution and bridge and tunnel plans in my spare time. i've driven i-95 from exit 3 of the nj turnpike to providence, ri. i've driven the "one mile" of the cross bronx expressway through east tremont; and i've driven the gowanus expressway through sunset park. i have been to jones beach and i have driven the northern and southern state parkways. i enjoy solving calculus problems. i would do it for fun if i thought there was a point in doing so. i enjoy watching fish swim back and forth. i listen to death metal. i think C++ is g-d's gift to programmers. i like food and sports, occasionally at the same time. i enjoy travel but cannot afford to do so right now. future goals include wading through rice paddies in vietnam, meditating with tibetan monks, and climbing mount everest. you think i am joking."
QUOTE]

WOW, so much world experience huh? Hes a laughingstock. Ive been around the world, AND lived in third world countries, these 'cesspools' as he called them.

Hell I hitch hiked across the US, hopped frieght trains from CO to NY and back. He has his education in math and computers for hells sake, what in the hell would he know about worldy affairs!? What a loser.

BTW, I bet the tibetan monks would kick his ass for being so narrow minded and stupid. Id pay to see that;p

Thanks for a laugh! Educated maybe, but intelligence is lacking.

[Jax]

YOU are the joke. My life and career have NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread. Go ahead and belittle me, asshole. You obviously have nothing to say. You have stepped over the line, attacking me personally. You should be ashamed of yourself.

She is attacking you like you attack the muslim people. Go wade in your 'cesspool' of ignorance a little longer.

[Jax]

ive spent half my life in several of those so-called "cesspool countries" and i'd go back in seconds

Its amazing, you and me both! Kudos to you;]

[Tequila Zaire]

Jax if he wasn't put in his place already...he sure as hell is now. Though he really made it too easy...I understood where he was coming from but he let his anger overshadow his reason.