Homophobes Attack

[Morning Glory]

A few nights ago a friend was confronted by several men who appeared to have had in mind a "gay bash". He was chased down riding his bicycle by a group of people in a car that were taunting him because he was wearing cross-dress at the time and trying to push him off the road. The car stopped and one of the men got out and tried to grab him, but he was able to push the guy off and get away on his bike without being assailed. He made it to a friends house a few blocks away and the guys drove off.

Some people expressed surprise that this could happen in a "radical" neighborhood. This also comes on top of several recent incidents of sexism by individuals at a community center. Myself and others involved in that community are trying to come up with something that we can do about it.

Does anyone on here have experience with these kinds of situations, primarily a group response to such an incident targeted against an individual "outside", and homophobia and misogyny inside a counter-cultural or otherwise assumed safe space?

[ForrestBlack]

My unfortunate advice is don't be weird alone. A guy in drag on a bicycle will be messed with, it's like a rule. But 30+ guys in drag on bikes... well, they will be messed with too, but not the same way.

[mystoo]

Does a gang of skinheads invading a hippie bar count? That happened a few weeks ago. It was a tense situation for sure. We left early so I don't even know if anything went down.

[Mr Karl]

mob rules .........if your part of one, don't leave home without it.

[Raza]

I've been stalked by a car while on my bicycle before. They tried to drive-by snowball (more like ice chunk) me four or five times, but fortunately sucked at aiming from a moving vehicle. I'm pretty sure from the yelling that it had to do with my appearance.

By the time we'd gotten away from the single open roads and back into a living neighbourhood I tried taking an unexpected turn and grabbed an end of scrap metal from the trash, hoping to catch the car where it had less room to keep distance, but apparently they gave up the moment they lost sight of me and I made my front door with no further encounters.

I'm not usually quick to violence, but circling my bicycle with a car and making me dodge chunks of ice on an already dangerously slippery and uneven frozen-over open road was just incredibly unfair, and by the end of it I was pissed enough to crack some windows. In hindsight, 0-0 was probably a good outcome.

[Azrael314]

Unfortunately I would have to agree. I have been messed with as well but the worst times have been when I was alone and when there were at least 3 attackers. There is safety in numbers. Usually people will not want to mess with multiple "weirdos."

[TheDeathKnight]

Sometimes those people go to "weird" or "liberal" areas of town specifically looking for people to hassle or beat up...

But yeah, I'll echo everyone else about not going out totally alone.
At least have someone else who can call the cops if shit starts going badly...

Another suggestion is that people sense fear, just like animals do.
They can tell if someone is weak or strong by how they act.

For instance, I was walking down the streets of Hollywood one time,
and a homeless looking dude came walking down the sidewalk towards me.
He was talking to himself angrily, swinging his arms wildly, and looked like
he wanted to kill everyone in the world. He looked REALLY angry. Well,
guess what? Even though he was just one guy, I stayed the fuck away from him!
And I would bet that most other people would too. Now it could be 100% real,
but it could also be an act, to get people to leave him alone. So if you are alone,
leaving a club, and see some people who might want to fuck with you, try acting
very confident, and not afraid at all. I mean, they don't know if you might be a
black belt, or have a gun, or a knife, or are just a crazy motherfucker...
Bullies want easy prey, not someone who might go crazy and bite their
ear off or something. Acting scared and afraid makes you a target...

[Mr Karl]

I've never had problems like that.....

[Raza]

For instance, I was walking down the streets of Hollywood one time,
and a homeless looking dude came walking down the sidewalk towards me.
He was talking to himself angrily, swinging his arms wildly, and looked like
he wanted to kill everyone in the world. He looked REALLY angry. Well,
guess what? Even though he was just one guy, I stayed the fuck away from him!
And I would bet that most other people would too. Now it could be 100% real,
but it could also be an act, to get people to leave him alone. So if you are alone,
leaving a club, and see some people who might want to fuck with you, try acting
very confident, and not afraid at all. I mean, they don't know if you might be a
black belt, or have a gun, or a knife, or are just a crazy motherfucker...
Bullies want easy prey, not someone who might go crazy and bite their
ear off or something. Acting scared and afraid makes you a target...

Trooth. The fighting mindset is very primal; it categorizes people as either prey or predators. If you play the role of the prey, they will slip into the opposite extremely easily. If you don't, they won't know what to think or do.

I once saw a small dog chase a whole flock of geese into the water by running at them barking, one versus 15 or so. Then one goose puffed itself up, stood its ground and hissed, and the dog got confused before running away itself. People work much the same. If you want someone to leave you alone the worst you can do is flee or act afraid. In fact, I would say this mechanism got me somewhat overconfident in the car situation I described above; they were clearly trying to keep their distance, which prompted me to try and close in, despite there being two or three people in that car. Could probably be used to ambush someone.

[nvrsetl]

Unfortunately there are victimizers in every aspect of society. Those that prey on weaker targets are merely projecting their insecurity. Victimizers seek their perception of a weaker target to reinforce their sagging self esteem. I absolutely hate victimizing behavior. As a twist wouldn't it be hilarious if a group of crossed dressed men preyed on a wanna be frat boy and forced unspeakable acts on the "tough guy!" Maybe if the cross dressers went to the victimizers hang out and waited for one of them to leave alone........

[Raza]

The problem with twists like that is that typical 'victimizer' groups have low self esteem for a reason, and individuals within them make dreadfully uninteresting targets. There's hundreds of thousands of them and they're all interchangeable, so what is it to me to inflict turnabout on one, however well-deserved?

Reminds of the lyrics of Dismantled - Anthem; "We are the standard. We are the last excuse. You're one in a million. You have everything to lose.". This is unfortunately completely true, but also something to take pride in.


And of course, there's the fact that doing it back would be the same type behaviour, and you just said you hated that. For good reason.

[nvrsetl]

However unpopular, I applaud retaliative justice analogous to when a there is a story on the news of a home invasion and the attackers are battered by the home owner.... its well deserved. I do hate victimizers, they seek weaker prey with the intent of harm and you never see a victimizer seek a physically imposing individual to attack. I like to see people stand their ground and defend themselves and/or their way of life. Raza I certainly see your point though, I realize the a paradox between the victim getting even with the attacker and the initial attack. At the end of the day though, I'm glad the intended victim described in the first post got to safety.......

[Mr Karl]

The problem with twists like that is that typical 'victimizer' groups have low self esteem.

misplaced maybe but I wouldn't say low

when are humans going to realize that it's pointless to hate the players when the game itself sucks

[Raza]

They do!

What happens when people confront you for being different is this; They see you. They observe some aspect of you that they cannot relate to, and the binaries of identity kick in; "Are vs Are Not", and cognitive dissonance will prompt them to 'explain' the difference.

This is where self esteem kicks in; a person who is confident about their self image - who believes in what they are and do for their own reasons - will not be bothered by this sudden void/reversal of external validation. They may still be tempted to quiz you about why you do what you do, and will probably continue to think that their choices are 'better' if for no reason than that they're limited to their own perspective on the issue, but their existing ideas will not be threatened and they will not perceive the situation as conflictive in nature.

People, however, that have no tangible self-image beyond what they take, in an ongoing fashion, from people around them will not be able to deal with the situation. Their idea of right is limited to what they can receive immediate validation for, with no underlying philosophy that can help them solve the dissonance they experience when confronted with a counterexample to everything they value about themselves. Alone, they are helpless. In groups, they plea loudly to each other for validation, regaining confidence as disapproval of the object of their insecurity is echoed back at them. The worse they felt threatened earlier, the further they will at this point go to safeguard their identity; violence being the final stage of emotional self-defence.

It's insecurity.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Insecurity...It rules everybody's roost...Even the most confident.

[TheDeathKnight]

Always reminds me of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McLbfsY8g7M

Two cage fighter guys were dressed in drag for a party, and get hassled by some thugs,
and end up kicking their asses...

[Mr Karl]

oh well, experiencing dissonance can provoke all sorts of reactions in all sorts of people......I suppose there should be a law against reacting