You better BELIEVE I am not filling out the census form, are you?

[The Newswire]

I am registered to vote and I have a drivers license, but I have not received a census form in the mail. Instead, a man buzzed my security system yesterday, gave me his name, said he was from the census, and asked to enter my home. I hung up. So he buzzed again repeatedly. Eventually, he figured out some other way of getting into my security building and started banging on my door for an extended time period. I had to wait for him to go away, so I could go buy an organic onion to complete a recipe I was cooking. From the help wanted signs posted around Los Angeles, I believe the government is paying $17 an hour to have unwelcome strangers knock on my door. I think a 44 cent stamp would be a way more economically responsible way to get me to not fill out the census form. And don’t even get me started on how, if we can file taxes electronically, it ought to be feasible, cheaper, and more effective to use an online system to count everyone.

Why don’t I give my data to the census? The first time I was ever asked to fill out a census form was when I was living in a townhouse with 13 punk rockers. I was afraid...

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[Amelia G]

Wow, I think I invoked them. The census creep is trying to buzz in right now.

[Raza]

Don't you americans get to shoot trespassers or something?

[Mr Karl]

it's a conspiracy you know.

[ForrestBlack]

it's a conspiracy you know.

That all depends on semantics. Is it "any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result." Yes. Lots of things are. Is it "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot." I think an argument could be made for some of those options as well.

[Amelia G]

Don't you americans get to shoot trespassers or something?

Only in Texas, Arizona, and Wyoming. I'm in California.

[VoltaireBlue]

Only in Texas, Arizona, and Wyoming. I'm in California.

You could probably get away with it in most of the southern states.

[Mr Karl]

I think we have census taking up here, but I can't remember what is involved.....it must be something in the mail, and it must be something that's no big deal or I think I'd recall. But maybe we don't have any. We have lot's of other annoying people bothering us though

[aXa]

we got our census taking stuff in the mail a while back. we dutifully filled it in and sent it back. then they started up with things like prerecordered messages over the phone, tv advertizing, and an intrusive and uncloseable popup reminder ad on my ISP' website's news page. somewhere in the middle of all that, they sent us another set of census materials in the mail; maybe it was for another member of the household?

[VoltaireBlue]

J. Hasn't filled his out yet. I am thinking about secretly throwing it away.

[One Eyed Cat]

We somehow got 2. We put a queer the census sticker on one and simply enumerated ourselves. I was annoyed by some of the categories. The reality is: They estimate beyond the actual forms sent in. I doubt California will receive an under count. I am curious about other forms on the census site. I've seen some that purport to measure the population, schooling, income, and other factors of specific ethnic groups. They are off year surveys. I assume they are extrapolating from a % there as well.

OEC

PS: I just realized: I have never filled one out personally. My s/o did this one.

[mystoo]

We used to have people come to the door. Now there's just a box on your income tax forms.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

I think the funny part is they do a census to help figure out how to dole out money from federal to states, yet, with all the ads, prerecorded phone messages, and mailings, just how much money is this whole sha-bang costing us as Americans?

[funkatron]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with the conclusion, but I have trouble disputing your reasons.

Also, California sucks (gov't-wise).

[Mr Karl]

We used to have people come to the door. Now there's just a box on your income tax forms.

that's how it's done now?......somebody else does that for me, quess that's why I have no clue

[Mr Karl]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with the conclusion, but I have trouble disputing your reasons.

Also, California sucks (gov't-wise).

what? even with schwarzenegger as governor?

[ForrestBlack]

I think the funny part is they do a census to help figure out how to dole out money from federal to states, yet, with all the ads, prerecorded phone messages, and mailings, just how much money is this whole sha-bang costing us as Americans?

Plus, from what I understand, California generally puts in more Federal money than it's own fair share, subsidizing other more historically broke-ass 'red' states. At least that's the argument Arnold makes. Oh, and to be honest, I worried when he got elected, but I'm actually very happy with his leadership in Cali.

[TheDeathKnight]

They actually do get some useful data from the census.

For instance, they already determined that due to the crappy economy, and so many foreclosures, that there are many more people on average living under one roof. A lot of people moved back in with their parents, or have multiple roommates than during the last census.

I do agree that it's a waste of time to count people they already know are here. Like you said, driver's license, taxes, payroll, etc. But I know a bit part of the census is determining ethnic background. How many immigrants we have, and so on. Plus not everyone who lives somewhere works a normal job. Not everyone pays taxes or has a car. So in some ways it makes sense to send people out. But I just wonder how important it really is, in terms of how much it costs to do...

[Amelia G]

They actually do get some useful data from the census.

For instance, they already determined that due to the crappy economy, and so many foreclosures, that there are many more people on average living under one roof. A lot of people moved back in with their parents, or have multiple roommates than during the last census.

I do agree that it's a waste of time to count people they already know are here. Like you said, driver's license, taxes, payroll, etc. But I know a bit part of the census is determining ethnic background. How many immigrants we have, and so on. Plus not everyone who lives somewhere works a normal job. Not everyone pays taxes or has a car. So in some ways it makes sense to send people out. But I just wonder how important it really is, in terms of how much it costs to do...

Why does the government need to know ethnic background? I'm a fan of the great American melting pot, land of opportunity, and all that, and I don't think we need to have our citizens walking around with a badge on indicating country of origin or some nonsense.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

I tend to think, just like almost every other state, California spends too much...And it isn't on helping the hungry red states. I think states in general need to do either of two things: raise taxes....And if that's not feasible...Then cut spending. Yes...Either one sucks, but it is what it is. If, as a person, you lose your job, what's the first thing you do? Cut spending and spend on only on what is most importantly needed. I honestly don't think ANY state actually does this, but as people, if need be, we sure do. So, what gets cut when you are a state? Well..Of course, programs and jobs....Which EVERYBODY hates, yet...I think states just don't look hard enough at programs. Are they all really necessary? and also jobs?...If you are in a state job, sitting around doing nothing all day but looking at Facebook...Then, I'm sorry, but the writing is on the wall and your job is no longer needed. If state's just created usedful jobs, I'd be fine with that. Honestly, though, when times are rough, I can honestly say, I don't think all these job positions are feasible. In the real world, if a company isn't doing as much manufacturing or whatever, they cut your ass, if you're no longer needed. They do this to survive. States need to do the same.

[ForrestBlack]

I tend to think, just like almost every other state, California spends too much...And it isn't on helping the hungry red states.

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

[nathanmbailey]

I live in Texas, haven't had anyone knocking on my door....

I don't have to bother with the census. I work for the 'ment, they damn sure know where I'm at. Unless I leave, and then they'd hunt me down and I'm not as good at hide and seek as Osama.

[Aza]

To everyone experiencing any paranoia about filling out your census form...

... I've already done so, and to be perfectly frank, a grocery store discount card application asks more intrusive questions.

[ForrestBlack]

... I've already done so, and to be perfectly frank, a grocery store discount card application asks more intrusive questions.

Yeah, I don't do those either.

[Morning Glory]

You guys aren't joining the Tea Bag Party are you? What with your recent threads vindicating them of racism and now toting the internet-libertarian party line of banning the census.

I encourage everyone who hates the government (or just a black president) to not fill it out. That way poor brown people are going to be the only ones who fill it out and the government is going to give them all of the money instead of all the dumb white people that hate giving money to the poor brown people.

Have fun driving your "drill baby, drill" bumper stickers through all the potholes when boogyeman socialists aren't going to fix your roads anymore.

[Raza]

Your government gives you money?

[One Eyed Cat]

California should invoice the federal government for .19 per $1 that we paid to DC.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

You guys aren't joining the Tea Bag Party are you? What with your recent threads vindicating them of racism and now toting the internet-libertarian party line of banning the census.

I encourage everyone who hates the government (or just a black president) to not fill it out. That way poor brown people are going to be the only ones who fill it out and the government is going to give them all of the money instead of all the dumb white people that hate giving money to the poor brown people.

Have fun driving your "drill baby, drill" bumper stickers through all the potholes when boogyeman socialists aren't going to fix your roads anymore.

That is a pretty big logical leap. I made a thread about dismissive stereotypes being used to avoid talking about actual political platforms and beliefs. It bothers me a little bit that I can't talk about something without being accused of all sorts of ridiculous tangentially related things myself. Fact of the matter is that I've been a registered libertarian all my life. This isn't news. If you want my honest opinion, the Tea Party thing is being pumped up and clowned by both the right and the left as a bit of a bafoonish straw man to undermine the steam picked up by people like fiscal conservative Ron Paul (R) and to a lesser extent Constitutionalists like Dennis Kucinich (D) in the recent election. I think it scared the status quo so they are using these guys as a replacement mockery.

[ForrestBlack]

California should invoice the federal government for .19 per $1 that we paid to DC.

OEC

D.C. needs it though. They aren't even allowed to represent themselves.

[ForrestBlack]

Your government gives you money?

It's where Federal money gets spent, so in a way yes, but it's really about where various programs and Federal expenses originate from.

[One Eyed Cat]

D.C. needs it though. They aren't even allowed to represent themselves.

Meant the federal govt. D.C. itself probably does need it.

[ForrestBlack]

Meant the federal govt. D.C. itself probably does need it.

Oh, you are right. I should have figured out what you meant in context of the amount you listed. Yes, maybe we should, but I guess having a better economy puts you in a higher tax bracket for states too.

[One Eyed Cat]

Oh, you are right. I should have figured out what you meant in context of the amount you listed. Yes, maybe we should, but I guess having a better economy puts you in a higher tax bracket for states too.

Yeah true. I don't seriously think it would be feasible to refund tax revenue to a state. I tend to wonder what can be done. I've even heard the possibility of waiving normal bankruptcy rules mentioned. $20 Billion is going to be hard to close. Ultimately, California will have to do both that and come up with something sustainable.

[Yaphat Mi]

I filed my census form... in the recycle bin.

[TheDeathKnight]

CA doesn't get much money from the Fed, because they get plenty of money from state taxes...
At least they used to, before everyone got unemployed and shit.

As far as the census goes, my point is that they do get useful data. How many immigrants are here, how many people live in each home, how many kids people are having, and so on. That stuff is all useful to people who put together social and government programs.

Now if you are paranoid about what they are going to do with that info, that's fine. Don't give it to them. I just think that some people are excessively paranoid about these kind of things. Let us assume that the government might one day go "bad" and start rounding up "alternative" thinkers and putting them in internment camps or something... I simply don't think that not doing the census will really hide your identity or location, if you are one of the remaining people who stayed under the radar. When they *really* want to track someone down, they usually can. If you are really paranoid about the government, then move elsewhere in the world, or go live in the woods. If you are going to be part of America, and live in America, then be a part of the system. In fact, if you are actually paranoid about the government coming after people, what better way to hide, than as an honest normal citizen who pays their taxes and fills out the census? That's how the Viet Cong hid, and how the rebels in Iraq do it. Pretend to be farmers. Normal folks living and working... The more you try to hide, the more suspicious you look.

[Mr Karl]

you know, letting yourselves be counted is really no big deal.....there's much worse things that can be done to you.

[Raza]

CA doesn't get much money from the Fed, because they get plenty of money from state taxes...
At least they used to, before everyone got unemployed and shit.

As far as the census goes, my point is that they do get useful data. How many immigrants are here, how many people live in each home, how many kids people are having, and so on. That stuff is all useful to people who put together social and government programs.

Now if you are paranoid about what they are going to do with that info, that's fine. Don't give it to them. I just think that some people are excessively paranoid about these kind of things. Let us assume that the government might one day go "bad" and start rounding up "alternative" thinkers and putting them in internment camps or something... I simply don't think that not doing the census will really hide your identity or location, if you are one of the remaining people who stayed under the radar. When they *really* want to track someone down, they usually can.

Go bad? They're bad now. There's gradations. There's also a lot of gradations of making it easy on them to get you on something - they have limited resources to work with and a lot of people to work them on, so making it just a little more difficult on them can go a long way.

If you are really paranoid about the government, then move elsewhere in the world, or go live in the woods. If you are going to be part of America, and live in America, then be a part of the system.

Why would you? Why should you?

America is just a name for a designated chunk of space. Anybody that gets born there or wanders over has as much right to it as anybody else. You can't just form a group with a bunch of others and declare that people have to live your way as part of that or get out - space is a limited resource, and everybody deserves their share.

In fact, if you are actually paranoid about the government coming after people, what better way to hide, than as an honest normal citizen who pays their taxes and fills out the census? That's how the Viet Cong hid, and how the rebels in Iraq do it. Pretend to be farmers. Normal folks living and working... The more you try to hide, the more suspicious you look.

Except that that completely beats the point. What's the benefit of 'being' an 'alternative thinker' if you have to forgo applying your principles to your life to get away with it?

The primary objective is to live your life as you see fit. No tactic that forfeits this has any value; getting away with nothing is as bad as not getting away with anything.

[Mr Karl]

The primary objective is to live your life as you see fit. No tactic that forfeits this has any value; getting away with nothing is as bad as not getting away with anything.

that's anarchy.......I don't think you'd like to experience that reality....not in this day and age anyway

[ForrestBlack]

CA doesn't get much money from the Fed, because they get plenty of money from state taxes...
At least they used to, before everyone got unemployed and shit.

Yeah, the Federal tax thing wasn't really a major part of my point, I just wanted to counter Ajax's "California spends too much...And it isn't on helping the hungry red states." to point out that we are actually helping out hungry red states.

As far as the census goes, my point is that they do get useful data. How many immigrants are here, how many people live in each home, how many kids people are having, and so on. That stuff is all useful to people who put together social and government programs.

Now if you are paranoid about what they are going to do with that info, that's fine. Don't give it to them. I just think that some people are excessively paranoid about these kind of things. Let us assume that the government might one day go "bad" and start rounding up "alternative" thinkers and putting them in internment camps or something...

How did that go for the Americans of Japanese descent who did their civic duty in WWII?

I simply don't think that not doing the census will really hide your identity or location, if you are one of the remaining people who stayed under the radar. When they *really* want to track someone down, they usually can. If you are really paranoid about the government, then move elsewhere in the world...

I prefer America exactly because I CAN hold these so called 'paranoid' beliefs. I pay taxes, I have a drivers license. It's not like I'm trying to live in a cave, or the jungles of Hawaii like some people I know. However, I think some of what they are trying to get on the census is wrongful and goes against our supposed national ideology. Specifically as an American patriot I object, not as some wannabe French ex-pat. And, there is nothing that says I didn't comply, but I still object on ethical and ideological terms. We are allowed to do that at least.

[Amelia G]

CA doesn't get much money from the Fed, because they get plenty of money from state taxes...
At least they used to, before everyone got unemployed and shit.

As far as the census goes, my point is that they do get useful data. How many immigrants are here, how many people live in each home, how many kids people are having, and so on. That stuff is all useful to people who put together social and government programs.

Now if you are paranoid about what they are going to do with that info, that's fine. Don't give it to them. I just think that some people are excessively paranoid about these kind of things. Let us assume that the government might one day go "bad" and start rounding up "alternative" thinkers and putting them in internment camps or something... I simply don't think that not doing the census will really hide your identity or location, if you are one of the remaining people who stayed under the radar. When they *really* want to track someone down, they usually can. If you are really paranoid about the government, then move elsewhere in the world, or go live in the woods. If you are going to be part of America, and live in America, then be a part of the system. In fact, if you are actually paranoid about the government coming after people, what better way to hide, than as an honest normal citizen who pays their taxes and fills out the census? That's how the Viet Cong hid, and how the rebels in Iraq do it. Pretend to be farmers. Normal folks living and working... The more you try to hide, the more suspicious you look.

(1) What non-racist policy needs to know an American citizen's race to function?

(2) Do you really think it is as bad to live in America right now as it is to live in Iraq?

(3) How is it not honest or not normal for an American to object to racism and government intrusions in private space?