What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

[GasmaskGirl]

Sure I read your post..but since we live near each other-why don't you read today's excellent LA Times editorial- assault weapons have been used - in school grounds, in N. Hollywood bank shootouts, at Columbine!!
Why do we need them? What's the point?
And again why are so many cops in favor of the ban.?
Believe me --names don't scare me..P

You're in favor of the ban because it makes you feel safer (false sense of security) - and you cite the columbine shootings as a reason why these guns should be banned. Here's a newsflash for ya: the guns used in the columbine shootings were already banned guns.

[Tequila Zaire]

You're in favor of the ban because it makes you feel safer (false sense of security) - and you cite the columbine shootings as a reason why these guns should be banned. Here's a newsflash for ya: the guns used in the columbine shootings were already banned guns.

I'm with Tank Girl on this one...plus the parents in that case were less than smart...I mean seriously would ANYONE think a 17 year old collecting a small weapons cache is a good and healthy hobby? At that age NO ONE should be allowed to own such a vast collection...let alone buy the stuff they got...all of wich was bought in less than legal ways...

I'll admit I've never been a fan of 18 year olds being able to buy firearms over liqour but age is not really the issue...mental state is.

[pedar]

You're in favor of the ban because it makes you feel safer (false sense of security) - and you cite the columbine shootings as a reason why these guns should be banned. Here's a newsflash for ya: the guns used in the columbine shootings were already banned guns.

What do you mean by 'banned'-that's semantics- probably in that particular part of Colo.--once they are manufactured- the barn doors are open.-
My point:I advocate a European system -where they complete cessation of mass manufacture of both these weapons and the ammuntion.
P.

[pedar]

I'm with Tank Girl on this one...plus the parents in that case were less than smart...I mean seriously would ANYONE think a 17 year old collecting a small weapons cache is a good and healthy hobby? At that age NO ONE should be allowed to own such a vast collection...let alone buy the stuff they got...all of wich was bought in less than legal ways...

I'll admit I've never been a fan of 18 year olds being able to buy firearms over liqour but age is not really the issue...mental state is.

Good point..mental state- how can anyone predict such a thing..Someone (this happened in the capitol shootings) goes off meds...there are the family guns -P.

[pedar]

That's a great example how banning something makes things worse for all.

So you honestly think the ban on guns that they've had in Europe for ages made things worse-??!
Why do they have one-tenth the crime we have?
I've been all over Europe- even in the worse parts of Amsterdam (the crime capital of Europe) I felt safer than downtown Beverly Hills.P

[ForrestBlack]

What do you mean by 'banned'-that's semantics- probably in that particular part of Colo.--once they are manufactured- the barn doors are open.-
My point:I advocate a European system -where they complete cessation of mass manufacture of both these weapons and the ammuntion.
P.

Do you seriously think that dangerous European criminals and/or terrorists are less well armed than their American counterparts? For that matter, do you seriously think that all scary guns are manufactured in America and that we could simply make them go away if we wrote a few more laws and stopped manufacturing them?

[Amelia G]

Luckily no cops died..just think if there wasn't an active gun industry manufacturing those weapons..they wouldn't have had to raid a gun store..
Again just watching the shows tonight..every fucking cop is on tv so upset up the ban expiring..what do they know that you don't?
P.

There are people reading this board and posting to this board from all over the world. So, assuming that not everyone here watches the same television you do and reads the same newspapers you do, please try to say what your specific points are, rather than referencing something that others are most likely unfamiliar with.

If the majority of US law enforcement favors continuation of the ban, what do you understand their reasons to be? It is easy to get a few people to go on TV to make any point. Does it in fact seem like a majority of law enforcement people feel this way or just a few loud ones on local news? What makes you think most police favor extension of the ban?

By the way, I lived in Europe for years and, although I didn't know enough about firearms to swear to the model and make of what I saw, I saw some big-ass weaponry being carried in the street.

[pedar]

Do you seriously think that dangerous European criminals and/or terrorists are less well armed than their American counterparts? For that matter, do you seriously think that all scary guns are manufactured in America and that we could simply make them go away if we wrote a few more laws and stopped manufacturing them?

It's a statistical fact: there's far less violent crime and murder in Canada and Europe..am I making that up?? lol!!!
Yes -if you reduced dramatically manufacture..of course there would be a dramatic decrease..
P.

[pedar]

There are people reading this board and posting to this board from all over the world. So, assuming that not everyone here watches the same television you do and reads the same newspapers you do, please try to say what your specific points are, rather than referencing something that others are most likely unfamiliar with.

If the majority of US law enforcement favors continuation of the ban, what do you understand their reasons to be? It is easy to get a few people to go on TV to make any point. Does it in fact seem like a majority of law enforcement people feel this way or just a few loud ones on local news? What makes you think most police favor extension of the ban?

By the way, I lived in Europe for years and, although I didn't know enough about firearms to swear to the model and make of what I saw, I saw some big-ass weaponry being carried in the street.

These aren't a few cops...various large scale law enforcement and police organizations with thousands of members were sponsors of the ban to begin with!!
Of course you saw big ass weaponry on the street-- it was no doubt appropriately carried by the people who should have it: police and military who have a need for it..not the NRA whackjobs who need to prove their inadequate manhoods everyday..
P.

[pedar]

btw I'm not saying there wouldn't be manufacture and sale to police and military..you are missing my point- I'm a realist nor am I a pacifist
..I'm criticizing the mass candy store situation where anyone can get one - regardless..P.

[GasmaskGirl]

What do you mean by 'banned'-that's semantics- probably in that particular part of Colo.--once they are manufactured- the barn doors are open.-
My point:I advocate a European system -where they complete cessation of mass manufacture of both these weapons and the ammuntion.
P.

hooray. and then we can all line up to have our heads shaved and numbers tattooed onto our arms.

It's very naive to think that taking everyone's guns away and halting the manufacture of firearms will make the world a safer place whatsoever.

[pedar]

hooray. and then we can all line up to have our heads shaved and numbers tattooed onto our arms.

It's very naive to think that taking everyone's guns away and halting the manufacture of firearms will make the world a safer place whatsoever.

Again- and this the 20th time I've asked this question..why is Europe so much safer then?
And why are we so hated over there- ?it isn't just Iraq-- and there are probably more people in the NRA who'd like to see shaved heads and numbers tatooed than there are in Europe today.P.

[pedar]

oh well- I'm off for the evening..I see i haven't followed my own advice to stay away from political threads..but couldn't resist tonight..such a need to be a cunt--maybe we can get back to sex..kisses to all- P.

[GasmaskGirl]

These aren't a few cops...various large scale law enforcement and police organizations with thousands of members were sponsors of the ban to begin with!!
Of course you saw big ass weaponry on the street-- it was no doubt appropriately carried by the people who should have it: police and military who have a need for it..not the NRA whackjobs who need to prove their inadequate manhoods everyday..
P.

have you ever heard the term "if guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns"?

Criminals will always, always, always, always have their guns. ALWAYS. Ban them, restrict them, confiscate them, stop making them, stop selling them, they will always have them.

Is marijuana legal in the USA? No, it's not. There is no Marijuana Department Store. Then how come I can name off at least twenty five people within walking distance of my apartment with a big fat bag of weed? Because people will always find a way to get what they want.

These stupid, stupid laws are doing nothing for our society except providing the illusion of a safety net and wasting billions of your tax dollars.

as for my "inadequate manhood", well...

[BrightStar]

I agree with GasMaskGirl.

[Kidthorazine]

i have a great solution to this whole problem how about we issue every U.S. citizen thier own thermonuclear bomb that way instead of shooting each other we can just hold each other hostage all the time then all the guns in the world would be tottaly useless

[Morning Glory]

[QUOTE=GasmaskGirl]
These stupid, stupid laws are doing nothing for our society except providing the illusion of a safety net and wasting billions of your tax dollars.
QUOTE]

Kind of like buying a gun. I've been to the worst cities in america, and I've never been robbed, or mugged, or assaulted. you know why? because I'm not stupid. I hear all you guy's talk about "we need guns to protect us from criminals" you are all so full of shit, get off your fucking high horses. I know that 99.9% of people on here have broken the law, but still you claim to some self-righteous "Us and them" bullshit philosophy that's just not happening. If you believe that everyone is out to get you, then of course you can justify the " crime wave" that's taking place, and your need for saftey. but don't be surprised if other people that stand to profit from it, like the people that sell you the shit you "need" to be "safe", will not do anything to dispell the myth. It's not a perfedt world, but if you spent the time you used to buy and train with all your weapons, trying to be nicer to people and make the world a better place, it would probbily be a lot less likely that someone will want to blow you away. Shit, I want to shoot all you assholes who are projecting this macho I have a Gun-don't fuck-with-me Image, just to say " god bless America, and our second amendment right. Aint it great?"

[BrightStar]

[QUOTE=Morning Glory]

These stupid, stupid laws are doing nothing for our society except providing the illusion of a safety net and wasting billions of your tax dollars.
QUOTE]

Kind of like buying a gun. I've been to the worst cities in america, and I've never been robbed, or mugged, or assaulted. you know why? because I'm not stupid. I hear all you guy's talk about "we need guns to protect us from criminals" you are all so full of shit, get off your fucking high horses. I know that 99.9% of people on here have broken the law, but still you claim to some self-righteous "Us and them" bullshit philosophy that's just not happening. If you believe that everyone is out to get you, then of course you can justify the " crime wave" that's taking place, and your need for saftey. but don't be surprised if other people that stand to profit from it, like the people that sell you the shit you "need" to be "safe", will not do anything to dispell the myth. It's not a perfedt world, but if you spent the time you used to buy and train with all your weapons, trying to be nicer to people and make the world a better place, it would probbily be a lot less likely that someone will want to blow you away. Shit, I want to shoot all you assholes who are projecting this macho I have a Gun-don't fuck-with-me Image, just to say " god bless America, and our second amendment right. Aint it great?"

You also have a valid point. I personally disdain guns, but each person should be entitled to their opinion. I think both sides have valid arguments, and as such, I am choosing the neutral type route .

[GasmaskGirl]

[QUOTE=Morning Glory]

These stupid, stupid laws are doing nothing for our society except providing the illusion of a safety net and wasting billions of your tax dollars.
QUOTE]

Kind of like buying a gun. I've been to the worst cities in america, and I've never been robbed, or mugged, or assaulted. you know why? because I'm not stupid. I hear all you guy's talk about "we need guns to protect us from criminals" you are all so full of shit, get off your fucking high horses. I know that 99.9% of people on here have broken the law, but still you claim to some self-righteous "Us and them" bullshit philosophy that's just not happening. If you believe that everyone is out to get you, then of course you can justify the " crime wave" that's taking place, and your need for saftey. but don't be surprised if other people that stand to profit from it, like the people that sell you the shit you "need" to be "safe", will not do anything to dispell the myth. It's not a perfedt world, but if you spent the time you used to buy and train with all your weapons, trying to be nicer to people and make the world a better place, it would probbily be a lot less likely that someone will want to blow you away. Shit, I want to shoot all you assholes who are projecting this macho I have a Gun-don't fuck-with-me Image, just to say " god bless America, and our second amendment right. Aint it great?"

so.. because i believe that a cosmetic gun law is not making anybody safer, that means i'm macho and full of myself? You aren't making any sense. Nowhere did I say "I need this gun to fend off the hoardes of criminals that are banging down MY front door right now as I type this. All I need is my collection of weapons to protect me from evil, and I can just march around being a dickhead to the entire planet.".
It goes far beyond that. Over your head, and far beyond anything you have the capacity of understanding as long as you are that closed-minded and ignorant.
If you read this thread you would understand that we are opposing the notion that a cosmetic gun law (a gun law based on the appearance of a gun rather than the actual function of a gun) protects anybody from anything. Banning guns that look a certain way is not helping society - changing the way people behave and treat eachother, and educating people helps society. THAT is the point we are making.

[CPRB]

okay, first of I live in canada....we have a 1/3 of the population of the united states, Also in canada we have a billion dollar boondoggle going on with gun registration, not many people use shotguns or rifles to kill people. aslo many of the wepons found are ex registered police guns with the numbers filed off. I grew up with a dad who was ana azming marksman and I am bleesed he taught me about guns and the care and maintnance. I respect guns and can use them failry well. The semi atuomatic weapon banning and unbaning is not going to change anything when it comes to violent crime, it's the crontrol of the wepons that is the problem. once in a while you get quak that uses a sniper rifle but it's rare.... Forrest made some great points when ti comes to the US. As did GasMaskGirl, but I think also the increase in crime is not a good thing...less money less jobs more anger and more greed and fudalistic wanton needs also there are people who a no matter what will comit violent crimes until we start delaing in a more healthy positive way with the menatly ill....there are so many fronts pro and con to this...money, cosciety, ..anyhow I dunno what else to say, there is much but I just can't quite think of an exact eay to say it. Crime is alwasy going to be there, are there ways to reduce it, yes? banning guns change things I dunno....not banning I don't know...

[Tequila Zaire]

So you honestly think the ban on guns that they've had in Europe for ages made things worse-??!
Why do they have one-tenth the crime we have?
I've been all over Europe- even in the worse parts of Amsterdam (the crime capital of Europe) I felt safer than downtown Beverly Hills.P

Look if you see Europe as such a safe and loving place then great...but that's just not the case and you're boardering on downright sillyness with statements like that.

The crime they have still resonates with a pulse like any other place in this world...and for the record if the place was such a land of safety and prosperity...why are so many immagrating to the deadly land of guns like the U.S.?

Also I'd debate Amsterdams claim as the crime capital...look at the former soviet states and regions...you wanna talk wild west...go there.

[Amelia G]

I genuinely believe that the possibility of gun ownership is a deterrent. If someone knows that an American family might have a gun, maybe even a really scary gun, in their house, they are less likely to break in when they think the family may be home. I do believe that decreases violent crime. Yeah, yeah, accidents in the home are a drag, but it is difficult to present the statistics on how many home invasions did not occur simply because the possibility of armed defense existed.

I also believe patriotically in what America's forefathers intended and they intended for the common citizen to have the right to keep and bear arms.

[Tequila Zaire]

Again- and this the 20th time I've asked this question..why is Europe so much safer then?
And why are we so hated over there- ?it isn't just Iraq-- and there are probably more people in the NRA who'd like to see shaved heads and numbers tatooed than there are in Europe today.P.

Wow...you really did your homework on the NRA...why are we hated in Europe? Cause we're made up of the people they generally hate and kicked out...and managed to surpass the Euro Trash Fucks who stayed behind...

Most Americans do not care if they are loved by Europe...we're not Canada looking for their accpetance...our kin left that continent for many reasons and noen I know care to go back.

So to sum em...Fuck em...they never liked us and never will...but damned if we didn't pay to rebuild their oh so advanced culture and cities after WW2 and still send aid to many nation there (Russia being a big one)...

THough I seriously question how many there hate the U.S....since they A. Vacation here a lot. and B. bitch and moan so much about it that they act like they live here.

Is Europe that fucking boring that they have to obsess about the U.S. so much?

Sounds like Penis Envy if you ask me.

[Tequila Zaire]

So you beg a good question- What is the problem there? And you KNOW that guns factor into it big time..
- P.

NO THEY ARE NOT the big factor...poverty, no opportunity for upward social movement, guns, lack of solid family and social structures...the list is endless...Drugs being the MAJOR one.

Drive around...you'll find more liqour stores per block their than anywhere else...and more neglected areas than anywhere else.

It was like that BEFORE guns filled the place like mad...ask any from the 40's on...South Central and L.A. ghettos are not fucked because of guns...they are fucked because EVERYONE turned their backs on them..

[GasmaskGirl]

I genuinely believe that the possibility of gun ownership is a deterrent. If someone knows that an American family might have a gun, maybe even a really scary gun, in their house, they are less likely to break in when they think the family may be home. I do believe that decreases violent crime. Yeah, yeah, accidents in the home are a drag, but it is difficult to present the statistics on how many home invasions did not occur simply because the possibility of armed defense existed.

I also believe patriotically in what America's forefathers intended and they intended for the common citizen to have the right to keep and bear arms.

amen, sister.

[Tequila Zaire]

Good point..mental state- how can anyone predict such a thing..Someone (this happened in the capitol shootings) goes off meds...there are the family guns -P.

Hate to break this too you but more often than not other household items are used as weapon in such cases...in Japan not long back some nutjob went on a killing spree with a table knife.

Killing is Killing...the method is not the only factor for it and it's not the only cause.

[Tequila Zaire]

amen, sister.

Indeed.


I still want a tank though...cause you never know when Canada will Invade...or Mexico...or lost WW2 Japanese Batallions.

[CPRB]

yeah I sure have had ideas of invading the US...uh lemme seee here on my list of things to do...oh I don't have it here..don't flatter youself....but the tank Idea for sure.....I was thinking and Mk 3 Challenger tank...yeah a little more then an M1 but janes rates it at the top..

[GasmaskGirl]

canada already HAS invaded! What do you think i'm doing here?

[BrightStar]

canada already HAS invaded! What do you think i'm doing here?

Being Extremely Sexy?

[GasmaskGirl]

Being Extremely Sexy?

nahhh. although i did apply for that position.

[BrightStar]

nahhh. although i did apply for that position.

Well, You More than qualify.

[Morning Glory]

gas mask girl, I think you're kind of immature to tell me that I am out of line for criticising someone's belief, when you don't seem to have a problem putting people down for thier own, so long as they are differen't from yours; as well as your personal attacks agaisnt my character that are unwarranted and certainly off topic.


back to the point at hand, sure people have been murdering each other for our entire human history with knives, and swords and rocks and stones, and they will continue to do it for a variety of reasons, but I don't think that's a legitimate argument to the question of gun saftey. If anything, if these individuals who would commit such acts are so inclined to do so, do we really need to make it easier for them by having weapons like guns and bombs just lying around in quick grasp? ( i'm refering to the "mentally insane" not the "common shoot-em-up gangster" or whatever.)

[noire]

Criminals do not legally register and fill out all the paperwork for their firearms. Paperwork and laws do not stop criminals from obtaining their guns. Paperwork and laws do not make a criminal stop in his or her tracks and say "Hey, I'm not supposed to be shooting this guy right now because this gun is illegal! I'd better stop."

hear hear.

i hate to be trite, but there's more than a nugget of truth in "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

~n
who lurks

[Tequila Zaire]

do we really need to make it easier for them by having weapons like guns and bombs just lying around in quick grasp? ( i'm refering to the "mentally insane" not the "common shoot-em-up gangster" or whatever.)

How are we making it easier? You can't go to your local store and pick up high explosives off the shelf. Guns are much easier and cheaper to get illegally than legally...so unless you have genius way to stop gun running and black market sales...it's pointless to pass bans that simply do not work.

[Morning Glory]

In a nutshell, since this ban is only "cosmetic", as has been pointed out, it will do nothing to solve the problems of guns in society, so it really doesn't matter how it turns out. on a final note, I personally think there is no need for guns, unless you want to kill someone, and I don't wish to do that, and if someone really wants to kill me (with a gun or otherwise) they'll find a way, and having a gun of my own is not very likely to prevent that from happening.

[Nautilus]

I don't know what to think about this...I consider my respect for the Constitution and weigh it with the knowledge that times have changed...I consider my libertarian streak and compare it with my extreme empathy--how would I feel if my loved one were shot? Just the tought of a loved one being shot makes my heart throb with pain and my teeth grit with anger. My emotional response is no guns, my logical response is people have the right. Still, this is a moral question that will take some more thinkin' on my part.

[ForrestBlack]

...do we really need to make it easier for them by having weapons like guns and bombs just lying around in quick grasp? ( i'm refering to the "mentally insane" not the "common shoot-em-up gangster" or whatever.)

It's not a matter of making it easier, it's a matter of having useless laws that don't really have any effect in the real world. There are far too many statutes on the books that sounded nice in speeches, but never really had any positive impact on our society. Lazy irresponsible people would have us candy coated into our grave. They always seem to want to give up personal freedom for the promise of security, and that's a mistake our country was founded on avoiding. Now you have all these people running to the government to take care of them because they are scared of the boogie man, and you have the government preaching that you should be terrified of the boogie man and that your safest option it to give up your freedom and they will take care of you. That is exactly what we are supposed to avoid in America. This was to be the land of the free and the home of the brave, not the land of the cattle and the home of the pansy.

(and no, I'm not calling you names, it's just what I mean.)

[Morning Glory]

ok. since I guess everyone seems to think of that "criminals" get gun's "illegally", i'd like to see someone posting some real FACTS that show more crimes are commited by unregistered firearms, then "legal" ones.

[ForrestBlack]

ok. since I guess everyone seems to think of that "criminals" get gun's "illegally", i'd like to see someone posting some real FACTS that show more crimes are commited by unregistered firearms, then "legal" ones.

Yeah, I agree. I'm all about facts, to a point. I do think that the ethics and intentions count for a lot though. Pure statistical debates can really miss the heart of a matter, but a well rounded well informed approach sounds good.