Scientology?

[Toe Cutter]

Anybody read any of that crap? What's it all about anyways?

I can't stop hating Tom Cruise? As much as I want to be simply indifferent to him, I can't. He makes me feel ill.

[Baron_Fluffykins]

Scientology was invented by the Vampyres to confuse so we'll expose our necks to their conniving fangs....

[Amelia G]

I'm thinking of becoming a Scientologist because I don't have what it takes to join AA (i.e. I lack an addictive personality, yet I live in Los Angeles.)

Why do you hate Tom Cruise?

[Toe Cutter]

Why do you hate Tom Cruise?

He just seems like such a phony. I'll admit he's not a bad actor, although it's hard to look past that for me to enjoy his films. I also lost what little respect for him I had when I saw that interview were he was slagging on that lady for taking meds for her post-baby depression. It was pretty fanatical. He also seem so disingenuous when I've seen him on tv. I actually saw him on Oprah and after about 2 minutes of his shenanigan I got so embarrased I had to change the channel (not that I watch Oprah a lot. I don't.).

[Bondage Clown]

Well it was a religion that was made up on the back of a napkin, Heinlien (sp) made it up and didin't think anyone would take it seriously.. Because of it many talented people have died.. I HATE IT

[drewblood]

i could never follow a religion that stemmed from a science fiction story...

and look at it's founder *shiver*... somethin just aint right.

[Amelia G]

He just seems like such a phony. I'll admit he's not a bad actor, although it's hard to look past that for me to enjoy his films. I also lost what little respect for him I had when I saw that interview were he was slagging on that lady for taking meds for her post-baby depression. It was pretty fanatical. He also seem so disingenuous when I've seen him on tv. I actually saw him on Oprah and after about 2 minutes of his shenanigan I got so embarrased I had to change the channel (not that I watch Oprah a lot. I don't.).

Ah, I've never seen Oprah. Oprah had someone with postpartum depression and Tom Cruise on at the same time? Any idea what the rationale for such a weird pairing was?

Other than a couple of recent internet clips, I've never seen Tom Cruise in any setting other than in a movie. I liked him in Risky Business, All the Right Moves, and Jerry Maguire. Eyes Wide Shut, Interview with the Vampire, and the first Mission Impossible movie all made me want to gouge my own eyes out with a grapefruit spoon. Other stuff has been middling. Really, I liked Risky Business so much, that I'm not sure he could do a movie bad enough after that to make me not like him overall (although Eyes Wide Shut and Mission Impossible both came close.)

[Baron_Fluffykins]

Well it was a religion that was made up on the back of a napkin, Heinlien (sp) made it up and didin't think anyone would take it seriously.. Because of it many talented people have died.. I HATE IT

Try Hubbard, Heinlein was the Polyamorous Agnostic.

[One Eyed Cat]

One (wo)man's religion is another's cult. It beats an open casting call

OEC

P.S. Don't Forget John Fuck'n Travolta

[Toe Cutter]

Ah, I've never seen Oprah. Oprah had someone with postpartum depression and Tom Cruise on at the same time? Any idea what the rationale for such a weird pairing was?

Sorry, I was not being very clear. They were two different interviews. The Oprah one was so he could brag about the young lady he impregnated. The onter one was on some morning show thing.

Eyes Wide Shut, Interview with the Vampire, and the first Mission Impossible movie all made me want to gouge my own eyes out with a grapefruit spoon.

That's funny.

Is there not an actor or actress out there that you just can't stand for some reason or another?

[Amelia G]

Oh yeah, I can't think of any examples right now, but some people one just dislikes on a deep primal biological level. Usually, I have some reasoning for what makes me dislike a particular person like that though.

[Kevin]

Operation Clambake is one source for descriptions of Scientology's inner workings, and how those workings sometimes (okay, frequently) spill out into the public realm.

Chilling stuff.

http://www.xenu.net/

[Amelia G]

Operation Clambake is one source for descriptions of Scientology's inner workings, and how those workings sometimes (okay, frequently) spill out into the public realm.

Chilling stuff.

http://www.xenu.net/

Lots of religions have internal power struggles. I skimmed a bit, but is there anything in particular you find extra-disturbing on that site?

[funkatron]

It's been a little while since I was keeping on top of Scientology so the particulars are a little fuzzy, but in general, what bugs me about it is the truly deceptive intent of the creator, and how that permeates the behavior of the organization.

Scientology also differs from many popular religions in that, while it enjoys the tax-free status of a "church" in the US, it aggressively defends against the distribution of "high-level" documents and materials. Basically, it's sort of like if you were given the Torah for free, but had to pay more and more money to gain access to additional books of the Bible. If you try to distribute the Gospel of John to people who haven't paid to get to the appropriste level, your ass gets sued with extreme prejudice.

Scientology is an extremely complex organization, and it's hard to get a feel for it without doing a fair bit of research. I don't take issue so much with the mythology behind it, which is certainly a bit crazy sounding, but in and of itself isn't destructive. How the organization behaves is, however, quite disturbing.

Some places to start:
http://xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html
Time article from 1991 about Scientology and Dianetics

http://www.lermanet.com/latimes/la90.html
LA Times article from 1990

http://xenu.net/archive/judge_quotes.html
Buncha quotes from court records

[Toe Cutter]

Holy Shit! That time article was dropping bombs!

Thanks, those links are super interesting. I would have never guessed how crazy-ass those people are.

[Pull~My~Hair]

I dont dig Tom Cruise either, I am all for the use of medications...I'm even for the MISuse of medications.But untill you get confined to your bed for six months, then get a baby cut out of your stomach after gaining over 50 lbs, then have the lil bastard rip your tits to shit.YOu cant even get up to piss, And now be completely responisble for another life. YOu have no right to say whether or not Depressions meds are good or bad.
plus
I dont like his hair

[Toe Cutter]

Ted Gunderson, former head of the FBI's Los Angeles office, quoted in TIME May 6, 1991:

"In my opinion the church has one of the most effective intelligence operations in the U.S. rivaling even that of the FBI."

ha ha ha ha *uncomfortably laughing*, Ummmm, I was just joshing about the Tom Cruise thing... ha ha ha, you all knew that right?

...Actually I want to join myself. Yup, going in later today...

[bohoki]

i learned about scientology on south park they really blew the lid off "aliens crashing on earth millions of years ago" sounds a bit like the transformers cartoon

religions should not have secrets(or have to pay for the information)

south park also did mormons "golden disks my ass"

[Amelia G]

From a religious standpoint, I don't really get why being a Scientologist is worse or scarier or more irrational than being Mormon or Catholic or Episcopalian or Jewish or Wiccan or Satanist or Muslim or Anglican or Baptist or Bahai or or Christian Scientist or Zoroastrian or Unitarian or following the teachings of Bob Dobbs or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[funkatron]

From a religious standpoint, I don't really get why being a Scientologist is worse or scarier or more irrational than being Mormon or Catholic or Episcopalian or Jewish or Wiccan or Satanist or Muslim or Anglican or Baptist or Bahai or or Christian Scientist or Zoroastrian or Unitarian or following the teachings of Bob Dobbs or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I won't make the case that some (maybe all?) of the religions you mention have had their share of gigantic assholes who abused their powerful positions to do the kinds of things Scientology has done. I do not agree, however, that the *core purpose* of all the religions you mention above includes the following things:

- bilking people out of large amounts of cash
- stoking the ego(s) of the founder(s)
- aggressively and maliciously attacking any persons who pose a threat to these activities

Again, have some of the religions you mention been guilty of such things in some instances? Probably all of them. Some of them certainly are more agressive about dealing with "non-believers" than others. But I also think that many -- if not most -- of them have at their core good intentions, and often very useful teachings. Few of them in their core doctrine approach the maliciousness that Scientology holds for those who are believed to be "threats," and certainly very few of them consider someone spreading their teachings a threat. CoS does, though. I haven't heard of many cases where tactics from Sun Tzu were used against a person giving out copies of the Koran.

I guess you might say, "why focus on Scientology compared to other abuses of religious 'power'?" Well, I can only say for myself that I call bullshit when I see it, where I see it, and I've certainly called it out in many organizations, even ones of which I considered myself a member. Scientology is an especially heinous example of the deceitful and cynical use of doctrine and "religious" teaching to manipulate its followers, so much so that I believe it stands apart from most mainstream religions.

[Kevin]

^^ What funkatron said.

Now, mind you, I don't for a minute think Scientology is the sole example among religions, organized or eclectic, of hyper-aggressive responses to their enemies. Look at the Christian fundamentalists' attacks on the GLBT community and its members, or the jihad levied upon the West by a very extreme, very dedicated, very minute part of the Muslim world, or the strife that plagued (plagues still? not sure) Northern Ireland between two sects of Christanity.

A zealot is a zealot, no matter what book he reads, no matter what teachings guide his actions, no matter what manifestation his divine force takes (YHWH, Jesus, body thetans, spirits of the natural world, or He of Noodly Appendages).

Scientology especially bothers me because it's not a subset of the religion that has veered into zealotry: it's part and parcel of the religion itself.

I'm of the opinion that everyone should be free to choose whatever religion fits them, including the decision to eschew it altogether. If someone wants to be a Scientologist, that's their call. Hell, I routinely pay homage to a Greek goddess, which I'm sure millions of people would find a poor fit for their spiritual quests.

But I also don't attempt to smite those who think that the guy nailed to a piece of wood was The One, nor those who think the same thing of their main man Muhammad, nor those who think I'm full of shit for having a scientific/agnostic belief system intertwined with a choice to have [a] faith.

[Nudemuse]

The few experiences with Scientology I've had elicited little more than an, "Are you fucking kidding me with this shit?".

I personally don't find it more or less frightening than a lot of other religions. Many "organized" religions and "mainstream" religions have roots in cult status. So the idea of something being a cult isn't particularly scary to me.

What does scare me is that when it comes to religion, way too many people are in other peoples Koolaid. My personal philosophy is as follows:

Me and my God(s,) are fine. Do I know JC? Sure. Nice guy.

What puts me into instant crazy pissed mode is when people proselytize, try to con me, use scare tactics of one sort or another, scream at me, judge me. I'm sure you all get my drift.

And I digress so I'm done.

[Evilbink]

Whatever gets you through the day. I myself worship daily at the house of pancake. Anyone who says god isn't at the bottom of a stack of flapjacks, hasen't had any good flapjacks.

[Morning Glory]

yeah it just gets me that pat roberts says some shit and everyone flys off the handle about what a fucking whacko he is. and he is, and they should.. but the problem with scientology is it dabbles into the other religious cult of personality, and has all these "real" celebrities and thier real hard cash backing it up saying the same exact shit as all these other whacko's, only they are allowed to get away with it and they've pretty much demonstrated that they can get away with anything.

[keiko]

Thank you, Kevin for beating me too it. Operation Clambake detailes the whole thing wiht Zenu and hte body theatons and the dc 10s and H-bombs and brain washings and emeters. It's scary really.
K

[Kevin]

Thank you, Kevin for beating me too it. Operation Clambake detailes the whole thing wiht Zenu and hte body theatons and the dc 10s and H-bombs and brain washings and emeters. It's scary really.
K

[MistressJennifer]

If you want to go to the FUNNIEST message board in the world, go to the Tom Cruise message board on IMDB!! It is just hysterical! Up to the minute TOMKAT gossip, Scientology, the funniest comments!! I swear there are some talented writers on that board.

[funkatron]

Whatever gets you through the day. I myself worship daily at the house of pancake. Anyone who says god isn't at the bottom of a stack of flapjacks, hasen't had any good flapjacks.

Problem is, that assumes that "whatever gets you through the day" isn't a negative, destructive influence on others. When it becomes one, there's a big problem. The issue with the CoS is that the core reason for its being IS to be a self-serving, destructive influence on others. The organization will spout rhetoric about being compatible with any belief system and whatnot, but that is an absolute lie.

"I will smash my name into history so violently, it will take a legendary form."

"Don't ever defend. Always attack."

"The purpose of the lawsuit is to harass and discourage rather than win."

"[A church enemy] may be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

- L. Ron Hubbard.

Does that sound like a guy who is cool with whatever you wanna believe?

Again, a discussion on a board where I toss out bits and pieces isn't gonna convince anyone, I think. Do your own research -- there's TONS of info about Hubbard and the CoS out there.

[MistressJennifer]

Amelia, watch these videos and you will understand what has happened to Tom Cruise:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...72879840922003

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...se+kills+oprah

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0&q=tom+cruise

[Shivvenfist]

I read that site top to bottom, and have read Dianetics in the past.

I feel it is a comfort for some people who adhere to it, because it gives them an anchor on their sinking ship of a life, but I also believe that L. Ron Hubbard was a complete mental case.

His intelligence cannot be denied, nor his passion, but as with most people of notably higher intellect, he suffered from the 'gene'.

Tragic, but that's never stopped anyone before, has it?

[Mr Karl]

a long time ago the scientologist were stupid enough to let me work there, and there is a distinct setup to how thier whole thing works, and if you look closely there is a definate reason why it was created by old L. Ron. Now Lron was a guy who studied a lot of metaphisical stuff, like the tarot, astrology, and the suchlike, and he was able to find a few common threads in all that stuf, present them in a short form to dazzle the rubes and use all the rest to come up with the marketable material, so basicaly it's the same as everything that's out there and works on it's own, just put into it's own package


......for dorks!!! trust me , I have never been around a dorkier bunch in my life! they couldn't even hang a whatsit board on the wall, they dont see the fact that good ol' Lron in every picture the walls, on thier desks, etc, is looking right at them, and laughing, but he was up to what he was up to when he came up with all that and it works!
for him anyway, the main thing is though that when you jion scientology you chose to follow Lron, not another religion, other than that I suppose it's not bad if you want to belong to a secondhand deep thought club

[Mr Karl]

One thing I found real interesting though, they aren't big on people who have experianced LSD, wonder why that is

[Shivvenfist]

One thing I found real interesting though, they aren't big on people who have experianced LSD, wonder why that is

It is just like why I believe the catholic church will allow taking of wine, but frowns on other things that most people take for granted in this era:

If they cannot find some way to convince people it should be theirs to control, it shouldn't be allowed at all. Period.

Chris rock had a similar vein in his comedy routine:

Everyone was eating pork and dying from what modern day people know as DISEASE. People kept on eating it, and kept on getting sick, due to the cooking practices and whatnot of the period, so the religious leaders needed some way to stop the madness. Chris Rock said to the crowd then: "I know, tell them GOD said not to eat it!"

He followed up with, I think when I stand before judgement, I seriously doubt my fucking diet is gonna come into question, God wouldn't be that trivial, right?"

heh.

[Pull~My~Hair]

as insane as Tom Cruise is, man I wish I could be that oblivious to everything happening around me...i'd be giddy too

[Mr Karl]

I just wish I could afford to be that oblivious

[Shivvenfist]

Drewblood's photo posting of L Ron Deadurd makes me think of John Wayne Gacy.

It's a conspiracy!

[Baron_Fluffykins]

Just so we're all aware, Scientology is NOT a Religion, it is an aggressive marketing scam with tax free status. That is all.

[Pull~My~Hair]

*cough* cult..*cough cough*

[Shivvenfist]

*cough* of cash *cough*

[Mr Karl]

Actually he wanted a lot more than just money, and his scientology club is the apperatus he built to achieve those goals and it really works, just not for the goals he had in mind, because he actualy didn't think big enough