Do you worry about people imitating you?

[Amelia G]

Here is a really innocuous example: When I was like eighteen, I had some button down shirts from when I was around thirteen. I hadn't grown that much, but I'd started working out seriously and the shoulders did not fit. So I cut off the sleeves and wore the middle part of the shirt with the cuffs. It made a cute slutty outfit. A couple of my friends liked the idea and did the same thing. I thought that was cool until someone I was dating saw me dressed up and was like, "oh, you are wearing your shirt like so-and-so." It had not occurred to me that having my friends like my idea would mean I would not get credit for it. Not like getting credit for deconstructing a particular style of outfit I no longer wear is super important, but it really bugged me and I didn't know how to respond. Besides dumping my date that is.

Sometimes I get stressed out about saying what I think either online or in person because it really gets on my nerves when people repeat something I said like they just thought of it. The sort of people who do this often do not even know they are doing it and will even say it back to me like I might be interested to know this thing . . . that I said in the first place.

Of course, people who snarf other people's words or behaviors for commercial purposes are even worse, but at least they are doing it on purpose and probably know they are doing it.

Does this happen to you and how do you or would you deal with it?

[OrganizedKhaos]

When we experience something, it gets transported from the *outside* via our 5 senses... and enters the brain... now, it becomes *ours*... and the more favorable something is valued, the more likely the brain will want to turn and express it.

Humans are wired to adapt, and evolve by what they experience... Thats how phrases for .... lets say sex.... went from "whoopie" to "Doin' it" to "hit that" ... and it will continue to evolve.

Amelia, you are a pioneer in SO many ways... you're in the position of constantly having to "stick flags of claim" into all sorts of new lands you lead us all into.
Thats part of your job, and its areas that frequently need defending. Its no surprise that the drive leaks into other methods of expression, and the need for others to recognize its YOUR FLAG DAMMIT!!!

More than not, our best attributes, can often be the thing that curses us.

I guess its how you perceive the snarfing...
You could look at it as... My brain and imagination is so innovative ... it causes others to want to walk the path I've forged.
...and just as easily, I did this because I like it THIS WAY, you, do it your way and we'll all be happy.

I think that a little give and take could be a healthy balance, or finding new ways to put your stamp on things and make sure no one gets it twisted that you are the maker of the original *thing* whatever it may be.

It can be flattering that others want to take your designs, words or whatever.... just as they would with famous authors, or other inspirational materials.

Could there be a deeper issue that bothers you, and is just manifested in situations like this?

Personally, I'd like to see the outfit you made in the first place.... but thats a little off the main subject.

[Amelia G]

OrganizedKhaos, on a deeper level, I definitely feel a certain loss of sense of self when I have to decide whether to continue to do something I created when someone else has either been given credit or taken credit for it. There is also just the desire to shut down and never communicate something on a small personal level. To extend my shirt example, today, if I had a great fashion idea, I would probably design it in secret, photograph it in secret, and then post the picture to twenty million eyeballs on the internet. Because that way it would be harder for someone else to be seen as the designer. But that removes some of the fun and joy from day-to-day life. If I have to post my witty insight online first, and only in a big venue, because saying it to my friends in person first means it will be unattributed . . . well, sometimes it makes me just kinda less extroverted than I'd prefer to be.

[Bikerpunk]

Imitation is the sincerest form of plagiarism....

Do what I do, Be ugly, tattooed and bikerish. Noone wants to imitate that.

*BELCH*

[OrganizedKhaos]

I really like your response Amelia. I understand it far better than I can articulate....however you my dear have done so very eloquently.

Thats very beautifully put. It makes so much sense. I guess looking at it from that perspective... choosing one's battles would be a type of middle ground.
Have fun in certain ways with friends, but when you sense something could grow into a fad, make sure its online.....

...then again, who really knows what will catch on.

I think a lot of musicians have this prob too with Jammin' with other musicians who snarf stuff thats not nailed down.
Some of the best creations come when freedom runs rampant while creating.

[Bacchus88]

More power to them if they want to be an imitation of me. I am salesman, business owner, paintball player imitate me go ahead, Ill still be here at the end of the day. My unique self, everyone of has that edge over everyone who deems to copy. Its not worth the time worry about it, blow it off and move on let that person figure it out.

Now the matter of.not speaking your mind either in person or on the net. I am guilty of that, everyone is a little. I try not to offend, if do i am sorry... Take me as I am or nothing at all. Everyone is unique individual, embrace that...

Oh yeah I ramble and make horse ass out of myself... I come from long line of dick heads imitated that if want.. more power to you, its not recommend


Biker we would not have you any other way, as your unique self and that goes for all of you...

[Amelia G]

Imitation is the sincerest form of plagiarism....

Do what I do, Be ugly, tattooed and bikerish. Noone wants to imitate that.

*BELCH*

My worry is that that is exactly the path I will take

[OrganizedKhaos]

Baccus88...have you heard the song by Kate Nash ~ Dickhead?

It just popped in my head when I read your post.

I'm not a huge fan of Kate nash, some of it is tolerable with the majority of it...somewhat irritating, with glimmers of very awesome material.

The song Dickhead is an example of an awesome glimmer

[Mr Karl]

hmmm, I don't worry about it, however I am quite aware of the need to imitate and take credit for the ideas of others. I don't really do anything that's easily imitatable anymore so it's not really a concern right now...............(this subject sure does open up interesting avenues of thought )

[Wickedanima]

I always get irritated and whiney when someone has taken 'inspiration' from what I've done, and within a short time its turned around on me. YOU got that from so-and-so, or whispers about being unoriginal... Its the way the 'COOL' people cope with having been inspired by someone outside of the cool crowd, I reckon.

That being said, most of the time I find a friend to bitch to, and then let it go. Firstly, because I was often inspired by someone else... And secretly attempt to satisfy myself with being someone's inspiration. Muse.

At least a somewhat petulant muse.

[OrganizedKhaos]

I know what you mean. I love giving credit where credit is due, promoting the people's art, and ideas make the world a better place. I understand the importance of being a good fan.

[One Eyed Cat]

I remember that happening more when I was a kid. We used to call it "biting". Someone would emulate another person's style. It was silly really. It could be a bit annoying and somewhat just odd at times. I give credit where credit is due. I love a lot of stuff other people do and try to simply appreciate it. This is how a functional community works. Generally speaking, my own projects are completely separate.

In the realm of ideas: It can be a matter for concern. I also agree with the above poster. Lousy people will often ingratiate themselves to you, imitate you, then attempt to knock you down. How do I deal with it? Unfortunately, it just leads to animus between people with similar interests. I start something new (with the qualification that I synthesize my own influences anyways + ignore/mock the wankers who "bite" like little doggies.

OEC

[Black Spiral Dancer]

I never worry about being imitated. If someone wants to imitate me, then fine. I'm glad to have inspired someone, though I doubt they were solely inspired by me.
For special events, I do like to "buck the trend", like in Whitby for some of the costume parties. One year it was Dreams & Nightmares, and most people were going as their Worst Nightmare or Favourite Dream. I was dressed in a Knight of the Round Table suit, with a Unicorn mask (since the place I get my rubber masks from don't do Horse ones). "Knight" "Mare".
Or the Night of the Living Dead, me as a Zombie Hunter (Shaun of the Dead) with a "squishy" brain as welll.

[Thistle Harlequin]

Sometimes I catch myself repeating things I read online that make sense (ie I don't tip my barista just like I don't tip my Taco Bell drive thru guy), but I don't steal people's words.


I keep myself reserved for this reason...

[OrganizedKhaos]

"When we experience something, it gets transported from the *outside* via our 5 senses... and enters the brain... now, it becomes *ours*... and the more favorable something is valued, the more likely the brain will want to turn and express it"

Thistle Harlequin, that was a good illustration of what I said before

[athenahollow]

I don't know how many times I would handmake my clothes, and not 3 weeks later, everyone did the same thing. It was quite annoying in HS, but when that happened, it just encouraged me to make more new & different things to wear.

Lately, I've been too lazy, but I've noticed a slew of imitators of my site. I think that one is quite the funny bone tickler, but pisses me off because they do false advertising.....

"Thousands of geeky girl photos!" when they have 850..... GAH!

Sorry...

/rant

[OrganizedKhaos]

That would me too!!!

[Amelia G]

I don't know how many times I would handmake my clothes, and not 3 weeks later, everyone did the same thing. It was quite annoying in HS, but when that happened, it just encouraged me to make more new & different things to wear.

Lately, I've been too lazy, but I've noticed a slew of imitators of my site. I think that one is quite the funny bone tickler, but pisses me off because they do false advertising.....

"Thousands of geeky girl photos!" when they have 850..... GAH!

Sorry...

/rant

You'd think if they want geek cred, they should at least be able to fucking count

[helcyon]

the worst is going to band rehearsal studios and the losers in the next room start picking up on your vibe and ripping it off. they so do not deserve that sort of inspiration until you are ready to unveil your action publicly. this is why I have set up a rehearsal studio in my house... if the neighbours want to start getting free inspiration from our racket that is ok I accept that.

as far as fashion goes I have been getting people actually angry at me for anything from wearing sunglasses at night (my reply is "Oh I've been looking all day for the boss of my face... I knew they'd be as good looking and fashionable as you" or "At last... I thought I'd never meet the president of the who's allowed club" or "any reason why not? it's not illegal" etc.) to wearing an extremely bright orange t-shirt to the metal gig with a print "Skulls with tits are cool" with an appropriately ridiculous graphic. If I can inspire folk to be out of fashion that's ok I suppose it's just that if everyone does it I will have to rebel by being a rare conformist just so I can still cut through. It's hard being a visionary leader...

[OrganizedKhaos]

I totally agree with ya helcyon, even though most musicians pinch from their influences.

When someone bites something one unsigned band, from another unsigned band its ripping it iff...

But if the same flavour is savoured and duplicated the music of a popular artist
then its considered as paying homage.

[incog]

I totally agree with ya helcyon, even though most musicians pinch from their influences.

When someone bites something one unsigned band, from another unsigned band its ripping it iff...

But if the same flavour is savoured and duplicated the music of a popular artist
then its considered as paying homage.

Maybe I am taking this wrong but are you saying that because I am a successful musician, it just fine for people to rip me off but it would be wrong if I were more at the beginning of my career or more of a loser? It sucks not being able to use a rehearsal hall for fear someone is going to take what is being worked on.

[helcyon]

I totally agree with ya helcyon, even though most musicians pinch from their influences.

oh yeah I totally totally agree . this is a real total agree-fest we got goin on here OK

I realise the value of and reccommend "borrowing" or referencing influences across all artistic expression. In guitar, and no doubt other instruments, they have little riffs they call "cliches" especially in things like blues and rock... for instance a lot of chuck berry type riffs could be termed "cliches" as they become sort of generic over time but it's not a negative term.

Part of the inspiration is to know when and which cliches to use, if any, and to try and get ahead of it and be... well... inspired and maybe even inspirational. Once you have put your performance or movie or mp3 or clothing out there as a released sort of thing well it's fair game for imitating really. What I'm talking about, similarly to frustrations expressed by others earlier in the thread I think, is the BIG annoyance of others taking credit for your inspiration or ripping you off in a non-respectful way. Done the right way I agree that imitation is flattery.

By the way I hearda story that Chuck Berry was all shirty and ungracious one day when Keith or some rolling Stone tried to thank him in a restaurant for being an inspiration in the 60s or 70s some time. Chuck wasn't too pleased that these upstarts were gettin all the chicks and drugs using his riffs haha. Killing Joke were not real pleased with U2 as they feel they were artistically ripped off by them. Kurt Cobain directly acknowledged and verbally gave credit to Killing Joke for parts of the Nirvana track "Come as you are" which is a more respectful way to do it I guess.

[Pull~My~Hair]

i've never been cool enough to be imitated..lame

[OliX]

oh god

Does it matter at all and is it worth ?... when people imitate me I'm happy because I knew something I did was good enough for othrs to like. As for losing credit for that so long it's not a nobel prize I'm good with it

And I remember one girl posting here almost identicaly answers that I have tought of while scrolling down and reading others answers.... then her comes up and knowing how "intelectualy" lazy I'm sometimes I just quote her with "yeah, that"

[Vaughn]

I don't worry about it.
I expect it.

Heh heh...

[Wynden Nightshade]

Sometimes people aren't imitating... I think others should take into consideration that someone MIGHT just MIGHT have had the same idea...as much as most people hate to admit it there are other people in this world that might think similar to you. If you run into someone you've never met witht he same haircut/dye job whatever do you think "this bitch copied me?" That bitch didnt know who the hell you were before that moment and probably didnt care. It sucks that we aren't all as original as we'd like to be but that's life. Just as an example i have a friend that's an artist that paints ver similar to Vaughn (sorry to use you like this hun) and i can promise you he has never heard of nor seen Vaughn's work....is that a copy? some people just have more in common than they would like to admit...okay sorry ranting....i need to calm down

[OrganizedKhaos]

oh yeah I totally totally agree . this is a real total agree-fest we got goin on here OK

I realise the value of and reccommend "borrowing" or referencing influences across all artistic expression. In guitar, and no doubt other instruments, they have little riffs they call "cliches" especially in things like blues and rock... for instance a lot of chuck berry type riffs could be termed "cliches" as they become sort of generic over time but it's not a negative term.

Part of the inspiration is to know when and which cliches to use, if any, and to try and get ahead of it and be... well... inspired and maybe even inspirational. Once you have put your performance or movie or mp3 or clothing out there as a released sort of thing well it's fair game for imitating really. What I'm talking about, similarly to frustrations expressed by others earlier in the thread I think, is the BIG annoyance of others taking credit for your inspiration or ripping you off in a non-respectful way. Done the right way I agree that imitation is flattery.

By the way I hearda story that Chuck Berry was all shirty and ungracious one day when Keith or some rolling Stone tried to thank him in a restaurant for being an inspiration in the 60s or 70s some time. Chuck wasn't too pleased that these upstarts were gettin all the chicks and drugs using his riffs haha. Killing Joke were not real pleased with U2 as they feel they were artistically ripped off by them. Kurt Cobain directly acknowledged and verbally gave credit to Killing Joke for parts of the Nirvana track "Come as you are" which is a more respectful way to do it I guess.

I can understand how I'm getting misunderstood by some...

But you get what I mean.... I'm not so much as saying that its ok, but socially accepted.

Example with a point is "Golddigger by Kanye and Jamie Foxx... but the heart of the song is Ray Charles... even though Jamie Foxx imitated him very well)

If a no name was ganked from it would be more tragic because someone else made their beat famous (beat: includes every note or lyric ganked) because they would never get the original credit ...
But if everyone knows about it already.... it gives a throw back like an advertisement.

Make sense?


Helcyon, thanks for all your input and understanding

[Amelia G]

I can understand how I'm getting misunderstood by some...

But you get what I mean.... I'm not so much as saying that its ok, but socially accepted.

Example with a point is "Golddigger by Kanye and Jamie Foxx... but the heart of the song is Ray Charles... even though Jamie Foxx imitated him very well)

If a no name was ganked from it would be more tragic because someone else made their beat famous (beat: includes every note or lyric ganked) because they would never get the original credit ...
But if everyone knows about it already.... it gives a throw back like an advertisement.

Make sense?


Helcyon, thanks for all your input and understanding

But Kanye West and Jamie Foxx clearly acknowledge their sources, so Ray Charles does get credit for being an inspiration. You know it and most people know it because they put it right out front and center.

If they used it and did not introduce a new generation to his work, then I think it would be a totally different situation. Without them giving him credit themselves, far fewer people would have known. Kanye and Jamie loom large and could do the same thing for a no name. The issue there is totally giving credit where it is due.

[Amelia G]

Sometimes people aren't imitating... I think others should take into consideration that someone MIGHT just MIGHT have had the same idea...as much as most people hate to admit it there are other people in this world that might think similar to you. If you run into someone you've never met witht he same haircut/dye job whatever do you think "this bitch copied me?" That bitch didnt know who the hell you were before that moment and probably didnt care. It sucks that we aren't all as original as we'd like to be but that's life. Just as an example i have a friend that's an artist that paints ver similar to Vaughn (sorry to use you like this hun) and i can promise you he has never heard of nor seen Vaughn's work....is that a copy? some people just have more in common than they would like to admit...okay sorry ranting....i need to calm down

Vaughn's work is pretty popular. How can you be sure that your friend has never seen his work. Regardless, I am talking about things where it is not a guess, but you know for a stone cold fact who the inspiration was and who the copy was, but not everyone viewing both the inspiration and the copy does know.

[OliX]

great minds use to think alike

[OrganizedKhaos]

I agree with ya Amelia, I hope we havent gotten off on the wrong foot, I was merely presenting an issue from an alternate view.

[ForrestBlack]

I think there is a line somewhere in the inspiration/perspiration equation that separates creative continuum from plagiarism. If the inspiration is a higher percentage than the perspiration (or original work you put into it) it certainly starts to tread in the zone of uncool, in my estimation anyway.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Very good point of distinction.

[karyn]

I think there is a line somewhere in the inspiration/perspiration equation that separates creative continuum from plagiarism. If the inspiration is a higher percentage than the perspiration (or original work you put into it) it certainly starts to tread in the zone of uncool, in my estimation anyway.

i think this is a good test

[Wynden Nightshade]

Vaughn's work is pretty popular. How can you be sure that your friend has never seen his work. Regardless, I am talking about things where it is not a guess, but you know for a stone cold fact who the inspiration was and who the copy was, but not everyone viewing both the inspiration and the copy does know.

Because my friend is 40 and the stuff he drew when he was 11 looks the same =)...and i guess if that were the case it could be a little annoying...especially if the person didnt have a similar style to begin with...had a roomate once that whomever she was "stalking" at the time she would completely change her style to match the other persons'....moved out before i had to drown her in the toilet.

[Vaughn]

Because my friend is 40 and the stuff he drew when he was 11 looks the same =)...and i guess if that were the case it could be a little annoying...especially if the person didnt have a similar style to begin with...had a roomate once that whomever she was "stalking" at the time she would completely change her style to match the other persons'....moved out before i had to drown her in the toilet.

Your friend have anything online?
Curious to see some.

[TheQuietPlace]

I am the most unoriginal dressing person I know. Blue Jeans, and a heavy metal band tee.

I've never worried of anyone imitating me, nor would I care if someone did.

[OrganizedKhaos]

You just RAWK it with pride, the importance of a fan is underrated!!!

[babyswitchblade]

A friend of mine had a small online shop where she sold dresses and corset tops she'd made out of old band t-shirts (this was before everybody else was doing it). She decided to close it down and only do custom orders for friends because people started ripping her off and selling her ideas as their own.

[Raza]

Not really. I take inspiration from anything cool I see; people are welcome to do the same if they find it in stuff I came up with. Creativity is taking stuff that exists and applying it in a new context; even if that context is merely your own person it is both satisfying and a possible step to more inspired works. Frankly, I'm happy if people do some DIY-ing at all.

Ideas cannot and should not be considered anyone's property. Art shouldn't be about validating your ego or inflating your wallet.