4 Amelia G - Women NOT aroused by nude men

[Bikerpunk]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/fa...in&oref=slogin


The findings:

a naked man interested a woman sexually no more or no less than a landscape. Even straight women.

Naked women, on the other hand. caused arousal. Even in straight women.

Hence: porn of men is for almost exclusively gay men.

[Bikerpunk]

Correction: a couple fucking made a difference. If there was a woman involved, the sight of a man and a woman together made them aroused.

[Dusk]

Oh, well thats o.k then, lol.
I would imagine that it would depend on the womans mood, but if a woman gets aroused at the sight of a naked woman, does that mean all women are bi-sexual?

[Bikerpunk]

I'm not going to assign labels to anyone or anything, only tell you what the science tells us.

A nude male is no more sexually arousing to a woman, per se, than a landscape or a photo of a rubber ball. (Unless she's a rubber ball fetishist).

A nude female is arousing sexually to a man, per se. A nude female is also arousing to a woman, per se.

A woman can be aroused by the CONCEPT of a man if he's shown pleasing a woman.

The disturbing part of this is not "women seem to be gay" but

"Women are sexually attractive, to both sexes, by virtue of what she is."
"Men are sexually attractive to women, by virtue of what he DOES for her."

This would tie in to the well known phenomenon of once a girl gets what she wants from a man, she has no further sexual interest in him whatsoever.

[One Eyed Cat]

Some are. Has to be in person more. I'm generally not aroused by photos either. I do appreciate the form though anyways.

[Amelia G]

Most nude photography of men is not done for female aesthetics.

Show the same sample of women rock videos with hot guys and you will find that women can easily be visually stimulated. The material just has to be aimed at them.

They may not be willing to pay for it like men are. They may be culturally conditioned to respond to different things and there may even be biological differences in response. But women are entirely stimulated by the visuals on men or good-looking guys would never have any advantages.

[Bikerpunk]

Not according to the article. If you're a girl who gets wet looking at a photo of a cock, please leave your tea party with Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and cheap oil and come volunteer for round 2 of the study

Suddenly I don't feel so bad being fat and ugly anymore. I could diet and get plastic surgery, only people who'd give a shit are men.

[Bikerpunk]

Most nude photography of men is not done for female aesthetics.

Show the same sample of women rock videos with hot guys and you will find that women can easily be visually stimulated. The material just has to be aimed at them.

They may not be willing to pay for it like men are. They may be culturally conditioned to respond to different things and there may even be biological differences in response. But women are entirely stimulated by the visuals on men or good-looking guys would never have any advantages.

I'm not saying this jokingly - I'm deadly serious. Please talk to the folks who conducted the study and explain their error. They, as scientists, would appreciate it.

If what you're saying is, the only way me being hot, naked, would be to be lit a certain way, presented a certain way, etc. etc. etc. and with 5% bodyfat, etc. then that's basically tantamount to saying "doesn't happen".

Most guys will get tumescent at just about any girl naked, to some degree.

[Amelia G]

This (from the article) is not remotely stimulating to me:



This, on the other hand, I used to quite literally masturbate to:

[One Eyed Cat]

Most nude photography of men is not done for female aesthetics.

Show the same sample of women rock videos with hot guys and you will find that women can easily be visually stimulated. The material just has to be aimed at them.

They may not be willing to pay for it like men are. They may be culturally conditioned to respond to different things and there may even be biological differences in response. But women are entirely stimulated by the visuals on men or good-looking guys would never have any advantages.

How do you mean? I don't doubt you're right. Is it more so done for guys attracted to guys? Personally, I appreciate some nude male photography as well. Generally not in a sexual sense though either.

OEC

[Bikerpunk]

This (from the article) is not remotely stimulating to me:



This, on the other hand, I used to quite literally masturbate to:

Second pic posting - with all due respect, that isn't a masculine form. He's soft, boyish, and girly. If you're suggesting I need to be waiflike and such, I give up now.


I'm following this thread NOT to argue with you - I'd be heartened to think that I could be a sexually attractive being.

One of the reasons men give up in their late 20s early 30s and "let themselves go" is that they know they never will be.

[Amelia G]

I'm not saying this jokingly - I'm deadly serious. Please talk to the folks who conducted the study and explain their error. They, as scientists, would appreciate it.

If what you're saying is, the only way me being hot, naked, would be to be lit a certain way, presented a certain way, etc. etc. etc. and with 5% bodyfat, etc. then that's basically tantamount to saying "doesn't happen".

Most guys will get tumescent at just about any girl naked, to some degree.

I promise I could post some pictures of naked women which would do nothing for you erotically or even put you off your feed.

In point of fact, I prefer watching people enjoy one another to simply looking at a hot naked guy and, yes, context matters to me.

But context and aesthetics matter to most men too or they wouldn't bother having scenarios in erotic material aimed at them and they wouldn't bother casting specific women, anyone could just take their clothes off and be equal on camera. Only it doesn't work like that.

[Amelia G]

How do you mean? I don't doubt you're right. Is it more so done for guys attracted to guys? Personally, I appreciate some nude male photography as well. Generally not in a sexual sense though either.

OEC

Men are culturally more willing to pay for erotic stimulation of all kinds, so, of course, their wallets rule what is produced in terms of imagery of the male form. It is more socially acceptable for women to swoon at Elvis or Jared Leto, so that is where erotic material for women is more likely to be marketed and sold.

[Amelia G]

Second pic posting - with all due respect, that isn't a masculine form. He's soft, boyish, and girly. If you're suggesting I need to be waiflike and such, I give up now.


I'm following this thread NOT to argue with you - I'd be heartened to think that I could be a sexually attractive being.

One of the reasons men give up in their late 20s early 30s and "let themselves go" is that they know they never will be.

The reason both genders give up as they get older is because it gets harder and they often have either (a) mated or (b) given up on mating, so the effort becomes greater exactly when it becomes less useful.

[Bikerpunk]

Amelia, for the record, I'll look at any female nude, and see some beauty in her.
I've seen women washing clothes in track pants and been aroused.

That's something that women complain about - men finding them hot no matter what.

[Bikerpunk]

The reason both genders give up as they get older is because it gets harder and they often have either (a) mated or (b) given up on mating, so the effort becomes greater exactly when it becomes less useful.

*shrugs* never was, never will be - story of my life. Meh. /*shrugs*

[One Eyed Cat]

Men are culturally more willing to pay for erotic stimulation of all kinds, so, of course, their wallets rule what is produced in terms of imagery of the male form. It is more socially acceptable for women to swoon at Elvis or Jared Leto, so that is where erotic material for women is more likely to be marketed and sold.

Oh ok. I see what you mean. I have always wondered if this area should be explored more (obviously you have done it well for years). Plenty of men will appreciate a sensual male aesthetic as well (going beyond the sexual even)

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

The reason both genders give up as they get older is because it gets harder and they often have either (a) mated or (b) given up on mating, so the effort becomes greater exactly when it becomes less useful.

It just gets boring really. I'll still "mate" haha. My days "in the sun" are over (even though they're not really). It's seeing the cycles for me. I can't be bothered to deal with most people as sexual partners. Experience as much as age. Thing being, you just find partners who see it the same way if you so desire.

OEC

[Janiac02]

Many of the women I know are into reading their porn, rather than watching videos or looking at magazines/websites. I think it gives us a closer connection to what we're absorbing. Also, it's usually true that women primp for themselves, or for other women, since guys don't fully appreciate the work that can be put into appearance, so I think we're apt to have more appreciation for feminine beauty. As for guys needing to be waif-like, that's different for everyone. The guys I've gone for have been almost exclusively big dudes. Everyone has their own taste.

[Bikerpunk]

Men are culturally more willing to pay for erotic stimulation of all kinds, so, of course, their wallets rule what is produced in terms of imagery of the male form. It is more socially acceptable for women to swoon at Elvis or Jared Leto, so that is where erotic material for women is more likely to be marketed and sold.

Why pay for something you're constantly offered?

That reminds me of the Chris Rock joke about everything a man says to any girl over 13 includes --- "and how about some dick?"

[Amelia G]

Why pay for something you're constantly offered?

That reminds me of the Chris Rock joke about everything a man says to any girl over 13 includes --- "and how about some dick?"

You don't pay for sex. You pay for them to leave afterwards.

I'm pretty sure I know way more chicks who are hot to trot with a lot of people than guys who are.

[Bikerpunk]

You don't pay for sex. You pay for them to leave afterwards.

I'm pretty sure I know way more chicks who are hot to trot with a lot of people than guys who are.

Not with me, they bloody aren't.

And I won't pay for sex --- and yeah, the payment would be for them to be there, not to leave. I won't sleep with someone I would want to be leaving, after.

[Amelia G]

Not with me, they bloody aren't.

And I won't pay for sex --- and yeah, the payment would be for them to be there, not to leave. I won't sleep with someone I would want to be leaving, after.

If you wouldn't want to pay a woman to leave afterwards, then that is just not a product you are in the market for. That's why you wouldn't pay. If you want someone to stay afterwards, then you are not really looking for specifically sex, so potential sex partners are not going to be responding to pure physicality and sexuality with you. Most people are sexually attracted to more people than they would have a relationship with.

[mystoo]

This (from the article) is not remotely stimulating to me:



This, on the other hand, I used to quite literally masturbate to:

Ha hahah...I never got into Axl, Duff though...mmmmmm...ANYWAY...personally. I would much rather look at a nekkid lady than a nekkid man. I like men and all but the female body, I find to be WAY more attractive. I've been to quite a few female stip clubs, went to see the dudes once. I prefer females. Am I bi? Good question.

[Amelia G]

Ha hahah...I never got into Axl, Duff though...mmmmmm...ANYWAY...personally. I would much rather look at a nekkid lady than a nekkid man. I like men and all but the female body, I find to be WAY more attractive. I've been to quite a few female stip clubs, went to see the dudes once. I prefer females. Am I bi? Good question.

Again, though, men are far more likely to tip properly when men dance for them than women are. So men's wallets drive what the dancers are like. I have seen far more hot female strippers than hot male strippers, although I have seen a few hot male strippers. But the reason is that the dollar drives commerce and stripping is commerce.

[Bikerpunk]

If you wouldn't want to pay a woman to leave afterwards, then that is just not a product you are in the market for. That's why you wouldn't pay. If you want someone to stay afterwards, then you are not really looking for specifically sex, so potential sex partners are not going to be responding to pure physicality and sexuality with you. Most people are sexually attracted to more people than they would have a relationship with.

Relationships don' work either.

[Amelia G]

Relationships don' work either.

My point is exactly that a relationship which works is extremely rare and difficult to come by and involves two people who are emotionally available and ready to be in a relationship who also are compatible with one another. That is a lot of factors to have to have dovetail for a thing to happen.

Two people with the appropriate factors to have a moderately satisfactory sexual/romantic encounter requires a lot fewer factors to be in sync.

People who are focused on getting only sex and romance are very likely to find the primary thing they seek.

People who would not want the sex or romance without the potential for a relationship are much much less likely to get either their primary or secondary goals.

It's just statistics.

[Morning Glory]

This isn't science. it's psychology.

Notice that the article didn't specify any particular genes that are different in men and women and account for why they behave differently.

they just took a group of people in a society, with all the sociological conditioning that they experienced, and determined the result of that conditioning. Not an inate human experience.

Now if these results were the same for siberian nomads, tokyo businessmen, amsterdam prostitutes, and mexican farmers, than you might be on to something.

But all these people come from societies that have different forms of media and perceptions of sexuality, and I'm willing to bet that they would all have different responses to the test.

[Bikerpunk]

Actually, all the women were from Ontario HAR HAR HAR

[Bikerpunk]

People who are focused on getting only sex and romance are very likely to find the primary thing they seek.

People who would not want the sex or romance without the potential for a relationship are much much less likely to get either their primary or secondary goals.

It's just statistics.

[Nixon]

Again, though, men are far more likely to tip properly when men dance for them than women are. So men's wallets drive what the dancers are like. I have seen far more hot female strippers than hot male strippers, although I have seen a few hot male strippers. But the reason is that the dollar drives commerce and stripping is commerce.

I agree. And, much like you mentioned about the photos, male strippers even in this day and age seem cut from the Chippendales/ Playgirl mold- just a male version of bad girl strippers. Give me a chance to tip a hot male firedancer, and I'm in. But Fabio? I think not.

[Wickedanima]

Actually, In MY weird wacky opinion I think the article was finding, badly worded in its own way, that context and mood are more important in stimulating sexual response in a woman. Meaning just a naked dood isn't going to make her hot, however, sensual/sexual situationally are.

I also think that it is, in fact, a generational thing. I've noticed alot of younger ladies have become alot more overtly sexual in their viewing pleasures. If I measure at all by alot of the DevianTartlets the demand for at least sensual artworks showing man in his full monty are in quite high demand. Waist up is not always good enough for these ladies.

^_^

[Morning Glory]

I guess i'm weird, but I've seen naked women before and not been aroused. Also I don't find strip clubs to be arousing at all, I find them to be pathetic and fake. So I think that it's false to say that nudity is not situational for men.

[evilstonermonkey]

the study is ridiculous. maybe the women they chose werent attracted to the male images - i imagine they would have used images of 'the ideal male' for their studies, for the most part, and i find the current 'ideal woman' to be pretty unattractive (bleach blonde waifs with a balcony one could recite shakespeare off). i doubt amelia is the only woman who can look at greased up muscleheads without drowning in drippings, if youll excuse the expression.

most scientific studies about vagaries like this have just as many studies supporting them as they have 'irrefutably proving them wrong.' its pointless saying its 'what science tells us,' because science is unsure. and as anima pointed out, female arousal has to do with the mood, situation, atmosphere etc. maybe at home, alone, in peace and quiet they would have liked the pictures,. but in the cold, sterile laboratory surrounded by fellow guinea pigs with creepy science people watching their brains through the electrodes wrapped around their heads... hell, in that situation i couldnt get it up if i were watching the entire group of female blueblood models have a lesbian orgy two metres away.

hmm. actually im not sure. maybe i should test that...

[SyntheticShock]

This (from the article) is not remotely stimulating to me:



This, on the other hand, I used to quite literally masturbate to:

I agree, Axl is way hot, he was my first crush, and GnR:Appetite for Destruction was my frist ever tape that I got.

I don't think the study is all true, just for the women who particaptaed. I know it would depend on the guy who was nude too and what type of guy the girl was in to. It can also depend on what the nude male was doing, if he's just standing there or lying on his side, I would find it more funny than sexy, but if he was doing erotic things, there would be more of an attraction, than...oh look theres a naked dude, just stanidng there Thats why so many women perfer the man/woman together, they're doing something erotic together.

[Bikerpunk]

In other words, "it depends"

versus man - where most women cause arousal. The Yeti-crotch from the other thread, not so much.

[Amelia G]

In other words, "it depends"

versus man - where most women cause arousal. The Yeti-crotch from the other thread, not so much.

It depends for everyone. Take a look at the enormous multitude of different kinks presented in different media formats for men's entertainment. In fact, you could narrow that down to just the internet and take a look at what immense variety there is in material aimed at men.

Why would there be so much variety if men could get hot and bothered over pretty much whatever?

Why would men bother to make any choices whatsoever about who they sleep with if it makes no difference?

Heck, if it makes no difference to the male portion of my audience, I'm going to stop making a quality product right now.

[Bikerpunk]

Amelia G: because, what you do is more than porn. You really think that this site, these people are just about looking at a wet glistening hole and a pair of bags of fat surrounding mutated sweat glands?

As for why variety, well, for the same reason why there's variety in any market. Product differentiation, lifestyle choices, etc.

I might be a biker scumbag into pale Goth women, but I can certainly appreciate the looks on a particularly pretty California blonde. The female equivalent is not there. It's Axl Rose, not Axl Rose or Fabio.

And as for who one sleeps with, that's a very very very very very touchy subject I ain't touchin with a bargepole.

[Amelia G]

Amelia G: because, what you do is more than porn. You really think that this site, these people are just about looking at a wet glistening hole and a pair of bags of fat surrounding mutated sweat glands?

As for why variety, well, for the same reason why there's variety in any market. Product differentiation, lifestyle choices, etc.

I might be a biker scumbag into pale Goth women, but I can certainly appreciate the looks on a particularly pretty California blonde. The female equivalent is not there. It's Axl Rose, not Axl Rose or Fabio.

And as for who one sleeps with, that's a very very very very very touchy subject I ain't touchin with a bargepole.

I think the freakiest women can appreciate vanilla if it is French vanilla, even if it is not their thing, but most people are most excited by whatever pushes their buttons personally and mere nudity is not going to suffice for most people, whether they have an innie or an outie between their legs.

Brad Pitt gets naked in Troy and I appreciate it, but my personal preference is going to be Andrew Eldritch. A truly fine example of a non-preferred flavor may exceed a bad example of a preferred flavor in appeal, but that does not invalidate the preference. 50 Cent is not my primary flavor, but I find him way hotter than Pete Wentz who might, on the surface, seem closer to my preferences. Or, to take it a step further, I'd rather see Fergie naked than Pete Wentz, but that is not because I find men in general are icky naked. And I'd definitely prefer Pink. But, for me, Eminem would beat out Pink.

If I were to describe my ideal for the male of the species, in terms of sex appeal, blonde and buff would not be on my list, but exceptional people can transcend preference on all levels. When I was at a more sexually predatory stage of my life, I did not find a person's theoretical sexual orientation much of a barrier to dating me, but I don't think that means anyone was mistaken. Just sometimes response goes beyond preference.

All that said, most supposedly hot male nudity is aimed at male tastes and not female ones. A lot of music industry male visuals are aimed at female tastes, so, big surprise, all of a sudden there women start caring about the visuals.

[Bikerpunk]

I'd like to thank you for this, for the record. I don't ask these things for being an asshole, but because I'm pushing 40 and I'm still friggin scoobied as to what y'all want.

I still don't understand it, but it's been worth reading for me.